Taking A Stand For The Greatness In Others

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Welcome to another episode of The Ultimate Coach Podcast. I'm one of your host, Meredith Bell. And today, I am very excited to welcome as my guest, Caroline Hughes, Caroline, welcome to my show, our show. Yes,

Hello, Mary. That's so good to be here on this very wintry Irish day.

Yes. Well, that's right, because Caroline is over in Ireland, and I am in the States. And I want to just give a very brief introduction for you, Caroline. So our listeners will know, the focus of your you and your work. Caroline is founder of conscious leadership development. And she also likes to refer to it as being the conscious leader, which I know is one of those phrases that is so important to those of us in this being community. And so Caroline, one of the things I wanted to start off with, I know you've just returned from Arizona, where you not only attended but you spoke at the ultimate event there. And I would love for you to share a little bit about what you've focused on, and also what some of your biggest takeaways were from that event.

Firstly, thank you for the warm welcome. And it would be true to say that I will be feel like I've been on fire since coming back from Arizona. I think I landed back on the 31st of January thinking it must be the end of July because I was gone for so long, even though it was only two weeks, and great pleasure to have shared the being in business panel, led by by rich habits who gave the keynote and Sarah nanny at nanny, and Hina, Ken and myself then John into, you know, turtle to get very real in the audience, which was, which was just great. And maybe if I if I kind of answer your question in two parts. The first was what I experienced in Arizona firstly was this really beautiful constructed container, where you there's a certain kind of level of chemistry, sometimes at an event, we might feel it at a concert, you know, where the people on stage, and the people in the audience are one just giant chemistry separate, and everybody is just sparking off each other and the energy is building and it's getting bigger and more powerful and more impactful, you know, as the event unfolds, and, and you know, I sat in the audience kind of day one thinking, Oh, thank goodness, I'm not gonna do one because this is phenomenal. And then it came in to do too, and I'm going, Okay, I'm going to have to, I'm really going to have to bring it because the the intensity is even even stronger, you know, if that were possible, because there's just so many really big moments, you know, for me, in literally tiny nanoseconds became big, big moments. Because what I experienced through the event was this overriding invitation to be you. And it didn't matter whether the invitation came from that Steve Hardison saying the most important seat in this room is the seat that you're setting in. Or a sunny day when he said, you know, the scars on your body, they're not proof that you fail, they're proof that you stop bleeding. And it's an act of personal sabotage, to not communicate and come good on your mission. Or it was a look, talking about the God's side and the human side of all of us, and how can we better access and more frequently, our divine selves as we walk through the slings and arrows of life? And, and so as it went on this, this invitation, speak from the authentic voice and, and I remember that, that Saturday morning, kind of walking around the block at about 6am going, you know, how am I going to land this plane? And I just made a commitment that I would speak from whatever arose for me in the moment in response to the questions that were coming, you know, from the audience, because the work that I do with leaders is very much in that in that realm. You know, I never know what's going to come up. And so my job or really be empty. So that I can be present. And and I think that everyone has the capacity to work with anyone in that way. And one of the things that's kind of consistent through my life's work, not just speaking at event or not just my business at the moment, is, you know, we are all leaders in our own lives. And that when we switch off when we hear the term leader and think that that's not us, we do ourselves and our families and our communities and our businesses a great disservice by not stepping forward. So this event, very much kind of aligns, if you like, with with my mission as it unfolds and unfolds to really stand at that intersection, where leadership development, personal development, coalesce, they don't collide, as some people might think, to be my thing, oh, you know, if I get too close to someone, I can't then hold them to account. How can I tell someone I love them if then later, I'm going to fire them. Right? That's the business context, isn't it as a value placed an objectivity, rather than maybe receptivity? So So I guess what's here for me right now is, you know, Steve bacon, right gave a very compelling message, just again, one of these midweek messages in a tiny moment where he said, You know, sometimes our vision is so big, it doesn't need a roadmap. What it needs is the courage of our conviction to stay the course of regardless of what's happening between us. Because there's no way it is just the step, that just the step that's in front of us, there's just the thing that's available for us to do. And we're only always ever following a thought, which is an event with an action.

I love that Caroline, that's a definite writer downer, this idea of because we know we can get hung up on, if we've got a big vision or a big goal, we've got to map out the steps for it. And I love the focus on the thought being, what can I do right now? And then taking the action that is going to move you in that direction without having to know all the different steps that are involved? Yeah, because,

You know, it's one of those things, and I've only really realized this very recently murders, you know, when, when people are in overwhelm, or we experience overwhelm, or we experience, you know, anxious thinking, or insecure thinking. Very often it's coupled with the inability to act. Because something feels bigger than us, or bigger than it is, or my old best friend bigger than it should be. And, and that's the dialogue that actually gets in the way of taking the action. And in the action comes to clarity. And I think we sometimes forget, and I certainly, look, I'm first off best dressed on this one, right? Forget that. Actually, as we act, we become clearer and then we get into the momentum, and then we're not caught up. But when we're caught up in our heads and our thinking, we're probably procrastinating, we're possibly catastrophizing. And in fact, we're doing so many things, except the thing itself that needs to be done, or the conversation that needs to be had.

Is so true. And it does always come back to thoughts.

We are thinking machines aren't we are meaning making machines. How often have we heard that? Yes.

Well, it's so true that and one of my favorite quotes I've heard from Gary Mahler is, it ain't nothing until I call it I just think is, it's all about making meaning out of things that happen, and that's so freeing to just have that phrase come to mind at times and ate nothing till I call it better. No. That to me ties back in. I'm curious with that big takeaway, you know, of, of being you. And it sounds like what you also came away with was this idea of personal ownership of my responsibility to make the most of my life and not rely on circumstances or waiting for someone else to show up, or help or do anything besides focusing on what I personally can do.

Yeah, you Oh, that's true, Meredith. And that's very significant for me. Because I've typically gone through my life needing permission of some description. And that can be in really small things, right. And I see that really clearly. I was on a course over the weekend, and I began to really break this down. You know, sometimes it's been a meeting and swallowing the thing I want to say, because the moments not right, or I tell myself, the conversation has moved on, and my contribution is no longer relevant. Welcome. timed. Yeah. And that is no different to the big stuff, you know, the big vision, and how do I build this big enterprise that's going to transform the world, right. But every big mission is a series of small steps, which cumulate into something big. And so I think it would be remiss of us in this conversation to keep it kind of on the very big stuff without kind of landing the plane into the very small, everyday moments where who we are being really shows up. So in those moments, I am being someone who needs permission, predominantly for myself, or possibly an invitation from an other at the table, who may be I think, has more to say on this. Maybe I think they're a bigger expert. Right? Or, or maybe they just have a louder voice. And I don't speak very loudly, I can speak to be heard, right. And I think that's the moment that's a very real human experience. And who we are being are we hesitant at the moment where it comes to putting voice to what it is we see, to connect the dots for other people, even if it's in you know, you can't ever connect the dots going forward, we only ever connect them when we look back. Right? They forget. So, so this, this, this, this stepping in? Yes, it's on the big siematic? Sure. And it shows up in every small moment, every micro moment of everyday rigors kind of how I see that, you know that. Like I talked to my clients about what are your moments that matter in an organization? What are your moments that matter in your team. And they will typically talk about times of crisis. And typically talk about the big thing that needed to be done, you know, the final push to get the deadline mesh, or something went wrong, it was all hands to the pump. So that customer could have their order fulfilled, or whatever it is. And that's great. And then everybody sits back from those big moments and goes back to so called normal. And it becomes bureaucracy as usual or not speaking as usual, without really elongation, what does it mean to be in a state where we're in action, where we're in it for each other? Where it is okay to give ourselves permission to see what needs to be set and be open to whatever comes back?

Curious is you're talking about asking them that question. I love that the moments that matter? Yeah. I'm curious what you asked them after they've shared, like I said, crisis times, you know, the ones that really were burned into their brain because of the impact of that experience. What do you do to guide them to see the other so many other moments that matter in the course of a day or a week?

I guess the first step on that murderers is to keep them in the articulation of what made that moment matter. Because, you know, our tendency is to treat success, like it's in the rearview mirror. Because we are naturally you know, our brains are naturally biased towards you know, that which has not gone well, because that creates story and drama that gets super sticky. And we can tell our friends about it and create other stories and dramas about it, right? Yes. But the thing that goes well, very often get greeted with Yes, of course, we got all that aligned. We're a great team. But of course we gave that customer that order, even though it felt impossible, because we're a company that fulfills a customer's orders. And so very often the high success moments get rationalized into, of course it is. So actually a lot of my time first of all is spent really getting them in touch with what was going on in that moment. that made it one of your moments that matters as a team. And then they'll typically start saying, Well, I felt that other people had my back, whoever it was, and probably there's been people who have surprised them. Because maybe they were typically less available, or less amenable to being helpful in the cause of another if there wasn't anything in it directly for themselves. So they begin to get this feeling of what it is to be a team working towards one thing, rather than a set of individuals who rock up once a week to talk about things. And then the second thing that very often the phrases that are used as well, you know, in a crisis, we throw out the rulebook. And we press a particular button, that means we can accelerate things, we can make decisions quicker. And we can really demonstrate what it is to actually come together to do things to decide based on what's available, to take our calls to, you know, to put our communication structures in place. Because that's what the situation demands. And I think that's where, in the exploration of that, and and getting a group of people, that can be a family, that could be a community, it happens to be a team, in my context, really saying, Well, why can't we act like that the rest of the time, what gets in the way of clear decision making, what gets in the way of having each other's back? What gets in the way of clear communication, what gets in the way of being in it for each other. And that murdered where the rich conversation then emerges. And well, they can do their own exploration around. Oh, I'm the finance guy. And I'm only interested in reconciling the accounts at month end, I don't think I have any say in the commercial running of this business. I'm the sales guy. And my job is to get all the money into you guys get paid, I have nothing to do with you. And you often see these types of polarities arising. And until there's a really good reason for them to come together as a team. They simply don't. Because there's no need. I talked about their design I I'm sitting here on

this. No, I know, I hear the passion, you know, and see the passion in your eyes around this. And what it implies to me is you're really a catalyst to help them look at things that they didn't even know were there. Yeah, and when we circle back to what you said, was one of the big takeaways from the event you just attended this idea of it's up to you. So yeah, we we I, what I'm hearing from this is, it's important for us to become noticed errs, you know, paying attention to what people are our sense, you know, what we sense from them, and be willing to ask those questions that perhaps no one has ever asked them before. That helps them to see things differently. And that, to me, is what you're doing in these situations. And it's something we all have the opportunity to do. Because I think we can get into our typical way of doing things like you were just saying we have these modes, these ways of being with certain people. And we tend to get into the habit of that, when in fact, there are so many opportunities to go deeper to draw out what hasn't been noticed or seen before. Does that resonate with you?

I love that I love that idea of being noticer is it's so simple and so missing. You know, because we're too busy in the soup. You know, we're in it, right? We're in the play, we're not watching the play. We're in it. And in an organization, it gets cold. Well, that's just the way things are around here. Right, we fix it, you know, I don't mean fixes and resolve, I mean, fix as in create a fixed position, that that is what is so and it becomes an expected norm. And then there's a point at which something or someone happens, that causes a challenge to the status quo to something could be a crisis. It could be a restructure, it could be getting sold, and happened a new parent company could be an acquisition, right. And it could be someone A new leader and new colleague who comes in from a different organization, maybe with a different ethnic profile, to the dominant, and norms of the team with a different expectation of what it's like to work together. And any of these situations are catalysts for change. And yes, you called me one and I fully embraced it. In fact, I had a colleague who used to say to me, and he was the head of industrial relations, when I worked in the Irish central bank. And he said, I'm not sure. Are you Chief, fire stop fire fighter, or chief arsonist?

What was the distinction he was seeing in you they're

Putting the fires out? Or am I starting the fires, so that change could be created. And I was always our little joke. Because ultimately, you know, your husband does two relations, your job is to negotiate with the unions around whatever changes are taking place. And so knowing what side of the argument, you know, we were on was important for him, you know, whereas I was head of change. My job was to bring change, you know, and therefore I did f&m still do, but it can be any one I think is the point, Meredith. And I think, you know, going back to the SU theme that we started on, and we didn't think that this conversation would come in this direction, but who we are, you know, that I think a lot of the times, we live in a, you know, in a waiting pattern in a holding pattern, you know, and for the conditions to be right, to say the right thing, so that it gets heard. And in doing that very often we lose our power, we'd certainly lose our freedom of expression. But actually, we missed the opportunity to be the stand for how we want things to be. You know, and I think we have to question ourselves, as you know, in that moment, therefore, we're back to you know, I call it the dear colocation

What do you call it?

What was the call waiting call waiting for the phone to ring like back in the day when there was phones that you had the little blip on the line? Yeah, that's another call coming in, you know, free mobile, right. And you have a call waiting button and a COBOL waiting feature.

You know, that is such a, I think, a profound analogy. Because too often we're kind of looking around waiting for somebody else to step up step into something that we notice, may need to be done, but we don't really want to take the lead on it or take responsibility for making it happen. And I'm just, I'd love for you to reflect on some of the other things you heard at that event that helped you to better see, Wow, it really is up to me to speak up to say this to do whatever it is that you may notice needs to be done.

I mean, as you say that I am immediately struck with an image of Cassidy. And his telling of his story, around her a calling to be in Africa. And while I do not remember the specifics, but here's the thread of what he was saying. And that he arrived in Africa, and he wanted to do work for particular nature. And the person with whom he was interacting, who was with column in charge, for one to a better word was in can you go and talk to these children over here? And he was saying, what No, no, but I've come to do a different kind of work, you know, no, no, but go and talk to these children over here. And in the speaking with these children, how it profoundly impacted the course of his life. How he profoundly impacted the course of all of those children who were there at that moment during those that period of time. And why I am not doing justice to the absolute beauty of this story that he shared with us. What I hear in it is, you know, sometimes we think it looks a certain way. Sometimes we're busy thinking, Oh, my big mission is over here, wherever here is or over there, wherever there is. But there's something much closer to us that actually needs our attention. in custody as example it was these children to whom the introduced purpose, concept of purpose, what it is to live a big life for themselves, or whatever age, they were young children. And maybe it's the business leader, who's living a great life on the outside. But in the inside at home, life is not so easy. But it's not getting attention. And maybe that's where the big work is so that everything else can expand and flow from.

Yes, that's so powerful. I think, especially in this day and age, when we're always looking for the next big thing, or the next best thing, and not satisfied with what we have right here. And we're not listening and tuned in. I think that is one of the profound takeaways from our conversation, is this whole idea of, what am I missing? Because I'm so busy looking ahead, or looking elsewhere? That I don't see what is calling to me, right in front of me today. That willingness to listen, and really focus. And you know, it's make me think, Caroline, about our earlier conversation, when you were talking about introducing being into the workplace. And you don't use the terminology that we think of a lot of times in this community, like, Who are you being talk about what language you use instead? And why that works more effectively, in the context where you're working?

Yeah. So I call this just routes to travel, right? These are highways to go on, in the spirit of exploration. Because if I look at the typical language of an organization, and I've worked in an organization for 25 years, right, so I am your original corporate chick, one of a better way of putting it. And up until four years ago, I never heard this term corporate world, it simply did not exist. For me, I just went to work every day. There was no world because I never saw myself as separate from it. And I think sometimes when we have terminology that is unusual, or alien, we can create a separation. And sometimes it's a really good thing because that a catalyst for change. And sometimes it can be quite alienating, because it's like, I don't know what you're talking about. And you're kind of creating barriers for listening. And so aside from my mission, to really reduce, if not ban the use of the term corporate world and this false separation we may have. I'm going to go on my soapbox for one moment on this murder. That's okay. You know, because you and I would not be here today without a corporate world. A corporate war distributed the laptops we are seeing each other from created and distribute the technology that allows us to talk even though we are how many 1000s of miles, probably about 5000 miles away from each other. And so when we create a separation, we created them and an OS. And that's the opposite of trying to influence and integrate. So when I talk the language of being I bring people there through, if you like a process, I am standing for being a conscious leader. I stand at that intersection very clearly, between the leadership and the personal development crossroads, too beautiful place to stand. And I use the tools that enable people to come and meet me there. So in an organization, there is the language of executive presence. There's the language of how do you show up and then there's the language of reaching your potential. And who are you being other than somebody who wants the very best someone else to want to develop them to reach their potential. You can only come from a very loving standpoint, to be in it for someone on your team to develop and accumulate the skills and the experiences so that they come good on their promise me that at the core of leadership. Leadership is getting the job done through others, not despite them not to be quicker and faster. still doing it myself. Tempting term that not good doesn't work. Don't don't follow that, folks. Another podcast for another day environment, right. So if we, if we kind of distill leadership down to working with and through others, coaching them for their potential passing on knowledge empowering. It's not a power grab or to power share. Then when we see this language of being actually all of the ingredients are there. They just haven't been pulled together into a jar called or container called being in the same way, and oh my goodness, we talk about love in organizations. It's just so funny. You know, and I had lunch, in when I was in Arizona, had lunch with an ex Harvard professor, you know, and we were talking about this. And he said, you know, Kai said, I started to go there, I've started to go there, when I prepped him. And I said, guys, we're gonna start talking about something, it's got four letters, it does not begin with S. And we're going to go and it's going to be okay. And I start talking about love. Do you think there's a big sign on the door, saying, This is the love in here this way for the loving now, because nobody would turn up. But when you create a container, like Teddy did in Arizona, like we do in this movement, like Matt is doing in Birmingham, when you create the container that allows people to explore to come to it, to find their way with it, to know that there are compass points along the way. And there might be beacons of light or magnets that they will repel or be drawn towards, to discover it in their way. That's what leadership development is. That's what bringing being into businesses. And sometimes, it's knocking them over the head with it to really see, there's another way with my preferred style. A bit more James Bond and John Claude Van Damme you know, a bit more I look like I belong, then we go blow things up in the background, rather kind of go in all guns blazing. That's just my style. to That's how I do it Meritus, meeting people where they're at, but standing at that crossroads calling, even though you want to. And you just don't see what's possible when you're here and your lack of knowledge of how it would be is getting in the way of taking the step. So I'll keep standing here. And I will find ropes, and boats and cars to send you. So you can come a bit closer.

Curious, I love what you're saying. And there's so many applications in our own lives, or for this air. I mean, it's obvious in the formal leadership roles inside of an organization. And the description you're saying about creating a container, I'm guessing some of the leaders that you work with, just like we encounter others in our lives are not as open to or eager to learn about this way of being this way of showing up. And when you say you meet them where they are, what are some of the things you say or do to help them become more comfortable in exploring new ways of showing up new ways of being with themselves as well as the people on their teams that they need to have this impact with?

Yeah, and, you know, that really has taken years upon year and plenty of bruised knees and broken bones and you know, all of the Think of all the things I didn't do and maybe could have done differently to say what I'm going to say is

I'm not really in a hurry. And I work with somebody on the assumption that the house is not on fire, right? The

I'm willing to stay with them. For them to get with their outcome is and that typically means the first thing I have to let go of is my own sense of when somebody should get it. Because that's gonna get in the way. Yeah. So I'm gonna give you a really concrete example married. Lady I've been working with for about two And months now. And when she started working with me is a global leader in an organization about 30 40,000 people, so significant, you know, business. And she in her first in her work succession conversation, so she's not considered for the next level of leadership. But in her head, she was never been allowed into the room where the decision was getting made. She was the first phone call after the decision got made to check technical specifics, right. And her story at that moment was, well, the dice is loaded against me, because only the people in x, y and Zed job title, get in the room. And I'm the trusted advisor who sits outside the door and gets the phone call. And I will never be in that room. Per story. And then her manager story was, you know what, it would be great if she could get herself in that room. But she was at the, if you like, that situation was happening to her. And as we went through our work, and I mean fortnightly, probably for the first three or four months. This Her story was No, no, no, this is the way things are in this organization. And then she had a story about being a woman in the organization. And then she had a story about the fact that she didn't work in headquarters, which is somewhere in the US. And she's working in the UK. Right. So she had all of these stories that seemed very real, that kept her justified, firstly, and how she was showing up to use the corporate phrase. And until she began to see that what all of these stories had in common was where she was looking at them from. And it was from a position of what she did not have, what she was not capable of, and how she did not give herself and I'm going to use the word again permission to talk about these conversations that she would have outside of the room as a way to create her case, or being in the room. And this is a really simple example, right? With this is what corporate leaders are in any kind of hierarchical structure could be in a hospital setting, you know, you could be in a small business, maybe your bosses are a married couple. And because you're not in the couple, you feel you can't there's certain things you can't say or you access that you don't have to certain decisions or conversations. And until she started to see that in shifting her position away from that we would kind of this is happening to me or me, this is our days, to the person who was going to already be that extra level leader until she really started to step into that and act as if it were already true. And use that almost as the would you call that you know, like the Jetpack is not the jetpack on our backs, you know, like Buzz Lightyear has the jetpack isn't even that. And then she could start to see the world was occurring differently to her. Her office was occurring differently to her, which then and she was showing up differently. Because who she was being who she was beginning to step into was this other role. And rather than waiting to have it, trying it on, and coming from it as though it's already here and already true. And that was months and months and months of work. Now, if I was in a hurry to get her into being, we would never have been able to have the conversation because it would have been pushing an agenda. She was not ready to hear. And so her exploration have led to something much more profound. That gives her to an insight and then a tune. I call them circuit breakers for when what you and I would refer to as when default being shows up, you know, when the default that keeps sort of small or that prevents us from doing whatever it is we really want to do or say or be or whatever. And that's really how it worked with it. So I guess in that instance, I met her as a woman. I met her as a leader. I met her as a description of a story that appeared so real for her. But I stood in there possibility for horror greatness. And the longer I stood there, the deeper she explored and it took As long as a talk, and it takes as long as it takes, right, because we know there's no end in this we, we slip up, we need to have compassion for ourselves, we have to remember. Oh, yeah. Oh, whoops, clean up the act, come back. And a corporate leader is no different to the head of a family, or a sole trader, or an individual walking through life, who doesn't have a profession? Because I don't separate them. Because there is no world there's no world in which I don't belong.

Yeah, I love that where I come from life within. Yeah, there's so much wisdom packed into that story. Thank you for sharing that, because it teaches all of us, we can't control others. Yeah, no, and recognizing and honoring where they are in a given moment. We're not making them wrong. We're not making them right. Anything other than recognizing where they are. And I love the phrase that you use. And I think it's one that is a beautiful way to wrap this up. Because it circles back to what you started with, it's this idea of you stood in the possibility of her greatness. And when we can do that, for another human being, the impact that we can have, is immeasurable. Because when somebody can see themselves in a new way, like this woman came to do it, it changes, their impact, the ripple effect is enormous, because they are no longer the same as they were. And therefore, how they show up and impact others is going to be different. And so then that can influence the others. And I also want to tie in your whole, you know, description of leadership. And the idea of, we get things done through others, and helping them see their own greatness. That to me, Caroline is so such an important principle for us to live by. Because it prevents us from getting into that judgment, criticism, evaluation of the worth of someone else. And instead, we already know they have greatness within them. How can we bring that out? Yeah,

I have nothing to say to that, actually. Because I think that that is it. You know, that is whether we call it leadership, whether we just call it being a good human being, that being human and being in it, not just for ourselves, but for others. Because everything happens in relation to the other people who are in our lives, to why not have what's best for them.

That's such a profound insight and takeaway. Today, Caroline, I know that you made an important contribution in that event in Phoenix, and you're going to be making another one here soon. So tell us a little bit about the upcoming event in Birmingham? Yes,

While the fabulous Matt Evans and his team are putting enormous dedication and effort into creating another really powerful container, not just for the being community, but for anyone who is curious and interested in what it is to be fully present in our lives. And that takes place on May 24, and 25th. And I'm gonna say 2024, because, of course, this podcast will last the test of time, Meredith. And I guess what I wanted to say with relation to that is, you know, I've been deeply moved and profoundly changed not only being in Mumbai, India last year as a being event by being in Arizona at the more recent event, and I have absolutely no doubt that the level of change and evolution that will occur in Birmingham this year will be absolutely if the same if not even different and better. Because the different speakers, different people in the room, and a bit like we started on at the beginning you know, there is a moment where we become the chemistry set of each other in that great YouTube frontman and you know, Irish philosopher, he talks about that one of the things he loves being on stage So there's a moment in every conflict counts concert, and do conferences, they might, and whether, you know, the band and the audience become one. And when I see very privileged to be speaking in Birmingham as part of what matters creating, when I see the speakers and the dedication that they have right now, to really creating the space in a very, very powerful way that that opportunity is there for people to be present for in May. And, you know, I would love to encourage anyone listening who thinks there might be curious if there might be something in this, you know, to take a ticket and be there. And the tickets are available on www dot t, you dash b e dash 20 four.com. And Murray would be great, you know, to fill the space, with wonderful people with big energy, you know, and really cause a transformation that ripples way beyond anyone who's in the room. Because you and I would not be having this powerful. Yes.

And within the Facebook group, people. So the ultimate coach, Facebook group has information also about that event. Carolyn, as we wrap up, I know people are going to be intrigued about the work that you do and just wanting to connect with you. So what are the best ways for people to connect with you and learn about your work?

Yes, so my website, www dot conscious leaders.ie is the very best way to connect with me, Caroline at conscious leaders.ie We can find me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and all good social media outlets that are probably in your hand right now, in your phone.

Right here, Caroline, I want to acknowledge you in the work that you have done in your life as a corporate leader, that now you're able to bring into your work with corporate clients and the ripple effect that you have had on so many lives because of who you are being. In each of those situations, I can just sense the way you invite people. So they don't feel pressured, they don't feel pushed, they feel drawn to you and drawn to the invitation you extend to them to explore who they're being and who they want to be to be as effective as they can be. So thank you so much for who you are and what you're doing.

Thank you very much. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. And thank you for such a fluid and seamless exploration that we've had.

Thank you for joining us today. If there's someone you know who could benefit from this conversation, please share this episode with them. Also, check out our website being movement.com You'll find valuable resources and links to connect to an engaging and wonderfully supportive community. Together, we can inspire and support each other on the path to a greater understanding of being. Until next time, take care and be kind to yourself