How to the Enneagram Can Create Your Being - Karl Hebenstreit

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Welcome to The Ultimate Coach Podcast. Today I'm here with Karl Hebenstreit, who is the author of How to Take Care of Business with Enneagram? And oh, wait, I just found out about the children's book that you wrote, also, Nina makes Nina and the really, really tough decision. Yes, Nina. And the really, really tough decision. And I I love that you've created a book for us to raise our children differently, and run our businesses better. And that's why I invited you to read the ultimate coach book when we first met. And I'm just curious, what was your greatest takeaway? I know, you saw a lot of synergies in the work that you do. And I told you that the leadership team actually uses the Enneagram, you know, so that we can work really well together. So Well, what did you see?

So a lot of the takeaways are really foundational to change, really. So it's first of all readiness, the the coach ease, readiness, and willingness to commit to the process of coaching, and growing and developing and changing. So I think that was one key takeaway. And the other key takeaway was that relentless focus on whatever the change or the goal is that needs to happen, and putting it out there in the universe. And using your network, using your connections, using people you never even thought would be able to help you reach that goal. reach that goal, and just that whole humanity, that we're coming together to help people just to help people reach whatever goals that they have, and and just be better.

Yeah. And I'm hearing you like in there talking about seeing the world through pious possibility and everyone that's in your world as a co creator, is that accurate?

Yeah, the your network? Absolutely. Because I'm, you know, story after story that Steve was talking about was connecting people that never would have met otherwise, that would have some sort of impact in their lives to be able to make the difference or make the growth happen or make the vision a reality.

Yeah, and so for yourself, now, there, I'm gonna just read this, there's some instructions on the back of the book that says to, we should read this as if it's about ourselves, right? So who would you need to be to be more loving? We just had a whole conversation about that. And yes, you know, who would you need to be to be a more effective parent, and all these things. So like, when when you read those instructions, and then you started reading the book for yourself, what's shifted in your life,

being more even more open, being even more open to possibilities to understanding people to understanding their different ways of thinking of being and loving? So just understanding that it's going to be different, and that people are different, and that we need to celebrate those differences as well as understand them as as ways of, of continuous love of ways of, of continuous support, in their own way, as opposed to differences that will divide us. Yes, so openness and less judgment, for sure.

And so like, well, how are you infusing that into your work to as executive coach yourself? So one of

the principles of executive coaching is the love of your client, right? Loving your client for where they are and supporting them in everything that they want to do not judging them. So it's just that constant reminder of I understand, especially when using the Enneagram, and knowing where the where they're coming from, what's motivating their behaviors. So understanding that and loving them for that, and then helping them get even better. So it's not judging them, it's not putting them in a box, it's not doing anything that's going to prevent them from reaching their goal, but honoring where they're coming from, and then expanding that.

Let's talk about that. I want to talk more about the Enneagram. So let's connect the worlds of being and the Enneagram. When when you say, you know, not judging your clients, and you know, and loving them more than everything,

the state of being that

let me see, how do I want to ask this question like that? What's the what's the bridge between the worlds of being loving, and knowing that your client is a number eight, for example.

So it's honoring that it's really especially if I am not a well, it, regardless, whether I share their core type are not. It's understanding why they may be viewing or approaching the situation, the way that they're doing it, and helping them to also open up their minds and hearts to other opportunities and possibilities of approaching the situation, rather than that automatic default that may get them into trouble, because this is not the time to do that. So it's it's understanding and loving that part about them and extending it even more. So that that part is going to be helpful in certain situations, maybe not this one. And let's keep it let's expand as well. So it's not, it's not getting stuck, really, it's not getting stuck in, in our old ways or comfortable ways.

Yeah. And for those of the people listening, can you explain to them what a number eight is?

Also, the eight is the boss protector or general, they're really, really great at leading, executing, delegating, getting getting things done, very similar to the type three, but the eight tends to have a lot more passion and energy and force and, and just really, force of nature, really. So it can sometimes be overwhelming to other people, or intimidating to other people because of their forcefulness and the energy and the passion that they bring to a problem or a meeting or just a relationship. So it's it's honoring that understanding that and getting to why do they need to be that way? And how can we create a more comfortable environment where they can then access with the Enneagram you you're a core type of a poor type. But you're also able to access all the other eight styles as well. So the eight automatically goes to to under comfort and to five under stress. So how can we get them to incorporate more of that Tunis, and to soften their approach and their power and their energy, so that they're in a much more comfortable space as opposed to a I don't want to call it reactive space. So they in the creative leadership circle, it would be like your reaction to your reactive state that's automatic. So how do we not fall victim to our pre wiring our hardwiring of acting a certain way? And just to have that wiring really go to all the other parts of the Enneagram as well, so we can access all nine numbers appropriately?

Yeah, so it's like a full self integration? It is. That's a great way of putting it. Yeah.

Can you share your story with how you landed on the INIA gram and and creating that in the world?

Absolutely.

So I was in human resources, and I was wanting to expand and go into organization development. So I decided I would go and pursue a PhD in organizational psychology. And little did I know that what changed my life. I don't know how premeditated that was. I just knew that I needed to further my education, expand my boundaries and find out more. And so I ended up at the Alliant international university that well before it was aligned with California School of Professional Psychology in California, in Alameda, and then they moved to San Francisco. And then there was well, there was a merger between schools and that's how it became Alliant International University. And they had a PhD program and organizational psychology that I was able to do part time and work full time during the day. So one of the courses that I took the professor was friends with Helen Palmer, who is a big name in the Enneagram I didn't know who she was. I didn't know anything about the Enneagram. At the time, I was a Myers Briggs person. That was oh, wow, where are you? Yes, yes, I was everything was Myers Briggs back then.

Yep.

Iran. Yes. Yes. And it has its its wonderful applicability. And it also has its limitations, just like every system does. And so Helen Palmer came in and she did one it was one class it was I forget whether it was an hour or an hour, 20 minutes, or whatever it was introducing the Enneagram to us. And in a system where we basically read these nine paragraphs, and we've self selected what type we thought we were. So it was far enough in the program where I picked my type. I'm like, yes, yes, yes, I'm a seven. And all my by like, classmates, like you're not a seven, you're a two. Because everyone wants

to be ourselves.

We don't want to be the type we are. That's when we know where we were that type. We don't want to find the type that we don't want to be. That's the type that we know that we are because that's the stuff that we don't like about ourselves, right? So yes, I do have seven, I do access my thinking style through seven for sure. And I can show up as a seven from time to time. A lot. Yes. Yes, a lot. So they, so they did this thing you're not supposed to ever do. You're not supposed to tell someone their type. But it was great because it challenged me. And then I ended up taking a more valid assessment. The there was an assessment called the IE Q nine through integrative Enneagram solutions. And that landed, of course, that resonated that it was too and I've taken it again, too. So yeah, your type is your type for life, by the way, so it doesn't change. And like Myers Briggs. Yeah, yeah, your Myers Briggs can change. What does change though, is your ability to access the other eight styles as you focus more and more on development. And what also changes is that you're not your core type all the time under stress, you take on other characteristics. So earlier, we said the eight can go to to under comfort, that line connects the eight and two means that the two goes to eight under stress. So the opposite is true. For when one goes to one, take those another time for comfort, that type they go to will go to them under stress. So it's the opposite flight. Okay. So yeah, so I went to this class, I heard about the Enneagram, I'm like, wow, this is life changing, because this is about motivation. It's not about just behaviors that like all the other systems are just talking about behaviors that you're gonna see, you're gonna see this person be more introverted, okay, you're gonna see this person will be more extroverted, okay? You're gonna see this person make decisions based on facts, okay? What's motivating that what's been motivating their introversion or extroversion, they're there the decision making their view of the world, their timing, their relationship to timing, the J versus the P and all that stuff, the time orientation. So it just opened up my eyes, because it just was the that that foundational motivational factor that was driving all those behaviors that all the other systems were talking about. And it also opened my eyes up to the fact that we are not addressing this in our organizations, we are only rewarding certain types that we we have greater value for based on our culture and what our country is valuing. And we are devaluing our undervaluing the contributions of these other types, who were in effect excluding from the organization, because we're not doing everything we can to make the organization appealing, inviting an inclusive place for them. So honoring those diverse perspectives, those diverse motivations, that diverse input, and we're shutting it down and shutting it out. So how can we create an environment where we can be more accepting and celebrating and inclusive of these diverse perspectives that we need in order to have successful organizations, families, relationships, and honor the list goes on, obviously, so that we can create better products and services to meet the needs of the diverse populations that we serve? Yeah, so that's really where it came from. That's my introduction to it. And I just got so enamored with it, thank God it was early on in the program, that I was then able to gear all of the other classes that I was taking towards helping me in the ultimate dissertation on how to help organizations to attract, retain and motivate employees using the Enneagram principles.

Yeah, and that's so important. I mean, it's always been important to be inclusive, right? Because the fact is, the world is diverse, right? But now that we are are more aware. Or I would say, What would you say like we've been forced to be aware,

maybe awakened, because we have all that diversity within us as well. It's just that what was nurtured and what was shut down. Right in our childhoods, because of our culture, because of the society because of everything that was going on around us. So we we've been taught to be the way that we are and shut things down and not accept certain things about us. And focus on these other things that we've allowed to water and nurture and grow, which may not be as healthy.

Yes, so that compartmentalization is really affected the way we're being and I agree, this is like an awakening. You know, after we met, I went to, there was an event surrounding the ultimate coach book, we have various events, you know, and so we had one in India called the ultimate experience India Edition. And there, it was really a reawakening of, I think I would call it like an East Meets West when it comes to being right. So all those parts where, historically, one philosophy is superior than the other, it was no more. It was just a beautiful synergy of being, you know.

Yeah. Yeah,

I know, there was one very recently just a couple weeks ago, is that the one you're talking about? was the one before that June? No, no,

this was in February. Yes. Yeah. So this one? Yeah, it was, it was such a beautiful awakening, I love that word that you chose. Because it was, we've always had our different ways of being, but just to see, like, all of humanity, you know, together being love, you know, and, and I see your work as a way that makes it super assessable for organizations to integrate that seamlessly and to the their work, because right? People don't like to talk about, you know, the diversity within Nevermind the diversity that we see with our eyes, you know, exactly. So optics is a thing. It is. And so when people stop compartmentalizing within, what what is it that you observe? Who are they being they're being

Equals, they're being they're honoring the equality and the, the sameness that we have that each of us has with each other, as opposed to the distinction of the differences. So we're not seeing ourselves as a number one, number two, number three, number four, whatever it is, I am all those numbers at different times, and I can be and I can choose to be those numbers of different audiences, it's a choice, right? I am not going to be a victim to my automatic nervous response system that says, I'm going to be this at this time. And when under stress, I'm going to be that and then when I'm comfort, I'm going to be this other one, because it's an automatic line, I get to choose how I show up and how I I am, how effective I am.

In every single situation, I am not going to just be an automatic response robot to my pre wiring, my hard wiring. And it's difficult. It's very difficult to do that. Because we we don't learn this early on. Most of us don't learn this early on. We learn this when that hard wiring is really hardwired. And it's much more difficult to rewire. Yeah. Yeah, it's like

I when you said really hard wired. I'm thinking you remember when we had to go from I'm not even really sure what he's before for Tila communications. And then move to FIOS. Do you remember all the roadwork that you saw? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Right.

And so it's like that that kind of excavation happening?

Yes. It is. Yeah, just as much destruction to happen before the reconstruction happens. Yes.

Yeah. And try to avoid breaking the the water lines and, you know, the electrical lines and stuff like that. So and those things have to still remain. I love how you're saying that. It's a choice. Right? And also you have to be beginning you were talking about commitment. So can you talk more about like, what that commitment looks like when we are

shifting our compartmentalization. So usually, always actually will be a result of pain, right there is a pain, something that is truly painful that is causing someone to need to do something differently to change. And that's the readiness part, when is someone ready for, they're not going to be ready, if everything's going great, if they're succeeding, if they're accomplishing everything they want, if they feel whole, if they feel like they're all the relationships are great, and they have everything that they've ever imagined and envisioned, and just feel complete, and, and have spiritual awareness and just feel like they're, they're connected to everything they need to connect with, when the pain of not having all those things in place, exceeds the comfort level, and is perceived to be greater than what it's going to take to change the pain of change, then that person is ready. So that's why in the book, you see people who are executives, people who are high level that have achieved many things in their lives. They're not 20 year olds, they're not,

you know, well, there was one that was in his 20s. But everybody else was old. Yeah, right.

And, and some of the people that were coached were early on, because they were mentored, they were really being mentored Exactly. But a lot of times, people go through life automatically, with expectations that have been put upon them by their parents, society, the institutions, they've gone through whatever it is, and they don't recognize that there's more out there until they do until that pain comes into play. And then they realize I need to do something differently, I can't continue at this pace, I can continue with this, this level of greed or whatever it is, I'm wanting more and more and more, but it's not the right more. So it's when we've gotten to that point of readiness, that's when we can actually make the change. And then the focus comes into play, where we need to focus on something different, we need to quit our focus on what was causing us the pain that we're so comfortable with, because that's what our entire lives we've been focused on, and then focus on something that's different. In fact, many things that can be different. So that's that reminder, that constant reminder that daily reminder, those affirmations, those, those, those the document, right where where you have to remind yourself, this is where I really should be going towards not these other things that I was focused on before that I didn't even know I was focused on because it was so ingrained in me. I need to rewire I need to refocus. And it's changed direction, change the navigation, change the map, change that whatever the analogy is that you want to use a metaphor. So that's the importance of the focus and the and the constant reminder of that new focus. Because without that focus without the reminder of it, we're going to just go back to those automatic responses. And that had served us well up until the point where the pain was too great. Yeah,

I love that you brought the document in there, because that's true. That's exactly what that is. That's the result of excavating all those poisons, forgiving yourself, you know, releasing the judgment, and, you know, reemerging committed to being your declarations. So Exactly. Yeah. Carl, thank you so much for being on the ultimate coach podcast today. Is there anything? Yeah, I mean, it's like, there's, I see the the world's becoming a better place, through your work. And through your state of being, is there anything else you'd like to put into this space? Just

though, and you mentioned this earlier, I think it's a great reminder, we need to forgive ourselves, for being human, honestly, are all the things that have caused us to get to the point where we are that need us to then have to change because we didn't know any better. There was that wonderful Maya Angelou quote that you do your best until you know better. And then when you know better, you do better, right? Yeah. So we've been doing our best based on what the world has given us and what we've focused on based on our situations. And once we understand that we can be better than we do the work to be better than we can't be better. We're never going to be perfect, and we need to forgive ourselves for that. We can always strive for for for a better version of ourselves. Yeah

100% Thank you so much. I'm Cordelia ghafar. Thank you for listening to the ultimate coach podcast, and share this with another heart and share this with another theme.