Effective Communication and Overcoming Subconscious Barriers of Your Teen or Employee with Ashley Ikeda

Melinda Lee: 00:00:02

Hello Today, my guess is Ashley, Ikeda. She's a

Melinda Lee: 00:00:06

licenced Marriage and Family Therapist and counsellor. I

Melinda Lee: 00:00:10

brought her on because as you all know, we have lots of

Melinda Lee: 00:00:13

communication breakdowns and families, it can be quite

Melinda Lee: 00:00:17

stressful. And so I wanted to hear from her expertise, what

Melinda Lee: 00:00:21

are some communication strategies to be able to

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overcome some of these breakdowns and build more solid

Melinda Lee: 00:00:28

relationships. And we're talking specifically around the

Melinda Lee: 00:00:31

communication between parent and child. I find it fascinating

Melinda Lee: 00:00:36

that even in the workplace, as a manager, the dynamic between

Melinda Lee: 00:00:41

parent and child is very similar between a manager and an

Melinda Lee: 00:00:44

employee. And so we're going to learn from Ashley, what are the

Melinda Lee: 00:00:48

specific strategies that can build people up, motivate them,

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or cause them to break down, and most of them, were actually not

Melinda Lee: 00:00:56

aware of what we're doing what we're saying to break people

Melinda Lee: 00:01:00

down. So if you have an authority over somebody, this is

Melinda Lee: 00:01:04

the best episode for you to learn how to use appropriate

Melinda Lee: 00:01:08

language in a powerful, effective way. I hope you enjoy

Melinda Lee: 00:01:12

it. Hi, Ashley, so glad you're here.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:01:21

Hi Melinda, thank you so much for inviting me

Melinda Lee: 00:01:24

Oh my God, you have so much experience and knowledge

Melinda Lee: 00:01:26

in this area. So I just want to dive right in terms of all the

Melinda Lee: 00:01:31

families that you've been supporting and helping. There's

Melinda Lee: 00:01:35

got to be a lot of different good communication and also in

Melinda Lee: 00:01:40

effective communication, ways of talking to each other. And so

Melinda Lee: 00:01:44

when you think about communication, what do you think

Melinda Lee: 00:01:48

about off the bat? And in terms of communicating with family?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:01:52

Yes. So in my position, I've been a licenced

Ashley Ikeda: 00:01:56

therapist for about six years. And so I've seen communication

Ashley Ikeda: 00:02:02

in in all sorts of forms, right. And I think the first thing that

Ashley Ikeda: 00:02:05

comes to mind is ineffective or unhelpful communication. And I,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:02:13

in my experience, I think there are both conscious, mostly

Ashley Ikeda: 00:02:19

unconscious biases that affect not only our way of

Ashley Ikeda: 00:02:25

communicating but affect our ability to listen and really

Ashley Ikeda: 00:02:30

hear what the other person is saying.

Melinda Lee: 00:02:34

So it's clowns, like because it's unconscious,

Melinda Lee: 00:02:37

we're not aware of it. And we all have them. And this type of

Melinda Lee: 00:02:42

unconscious lens, we all have it, and it prevents us from

Melinda Lee: 00:02:46

really hearing the other person.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:02:50

Right, so in my position, I work a lot with

Ashley Ikeda: 00:02:54

families, parents and teens especially.

Melinda Lee: 00:02:58

Yeah, There is a lot going on there a lot of

Melinda Lee: 00:03:03

baggage and different lenses. We don't want to hear somebody.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:03:04

Oh, yes, right. Not only is there the family

Ashley Ikeda: 00:03:07

history, but there might be trauma history. There's also

Ashley Ikeda: 00:03:10

cultural and generational differences that affect the way

Ashley Ikeda: 00:03:14

that we communicate. And the unconscious biases that I was

Ashley Ikeda: 00:03:18

referring to, we call them cognitive distortions. So

Ashley Ikeda: 00:03:23

they're thoughts that not only distort your perception, but it

Ashley Ikeda: 00:03:28

also affects the way that you see yourself how you see others

Ashley Ikeda: 00:03:32

how you see the world. And it also influences your emotions.

Melinda Lee: 00:03:37

So can you speak about that from the parents

Melinda Lee: 00:03:39

perspective? So what is happening with the parent, when

Melinda Lee: 00:03:43

they have these cognitive distortions? And what is the

Melinda Lee: 00:03:46

lens that they are speaking from?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:03:50

I think one of the most common ones are all or

Ashley Ikeda: 00:03:54

nothing thinking or black or white thinking. And also should

Ashley Ikeda: 00:03:59

statements.

Melinda Lee: 00:04:00

Wow, yeah. So what does that sound like?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:04:04

So I think typically, we label things as

Ashley Ikeda: 00:04:09

good or bad. Right? So I think of a teen is coming to the to

Ashley Ikeda: 00:04:14

their parent with an issue. Sometimes it's really hard for

Ashley Ikeda: 00:04:19

the parent to see the shades of grey that the teen might be

Ashley Ikeda: 00:04:24

experiencing, like, let's say, for example, teen is coming to

Ashley Ikeda: 00:04:27

their parents sharing that they recently use substances. Right?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:04:33

And instead of apparent coming from a place of curiosity, I

Ashley Ikeda: 00:04:37

think it automatically goes to a place of judgement. Oh, this is

Ashley Ikeda: 00:04:40

bad. Yeah. My team should not be doing this. Yeah. And instantly,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:04:48

there's a blocking communication.

Melinda Lee: 00:04:50

yeah I'm surprised actually, I would think that by

Melinda Lee: 00:04:54

now. But I'm just assuming by now that most parents are

Melinda Lee: 00:04:59

starting To be more open, or are you seeing seeing the is still a

Melinda Lee: 00:05:03

lot of black and white thinking you're bad, or you're good?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:05:08

I'm I'm definitely seeing more of a shift towards

Ashley Ikeda: 00:05:14

understanding and realising that not everything is good or bad.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:05:22

But I still don't think that there's enough education that's

Ashley Ikeda: 00:05:27

provided generally, unless you've seen a therapist, you

Ashley Ikeda: 00:05:32

wouldn't know about cognitive distortions. And we have a lot

Ashley Ikeda: 00:05:36

of parents who come to us who have a general understanding of

Ashley Ikeda: 00:05:43

mental health, but I think there's still a lot to be

Ashley Ikeda: 00:05:46

learned. Yeah, yeah, I think the pandemic or the the, the

Ashley Ikeda: 00:05:50

pandemic has really, I think, normalised therapy, but I think

Ashley Ikeda: 00:05:54

the problem is, is that a lot of the teams are coming to us for

Ashley Ikeda: 00:05:59

therapy, but I know that in order for the team to change,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:06:02

the whole family needs to change.

Melinda Lee: 00:06:04

Right, right. Right. And so when the parent is

Melinda Lee: 00:06:08

speaking from probably, and so tell me a little bit more about

Melinda Lee: 00:06:13

how that usually the communication, how it comes

Melinda Lee: 00:06:16

across, like you say, they start to blame or shirt or, or label

Melinda Lee: 00:06:20

the child as your bad. They might start using words as like

Melinda Lee: 00:06:24

blaming words. So how can you do that? You're, you're you're

Melinda Lee: 00:06:29

you're wrong. What did you do and blame the child? And not

Melinda Lee: 00:06:35

necessarily take as much responsibility even though they

Melinda Lee: 00:06:38

might feel it? Yeah.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:06:43

So we learn how to communicate through our parents.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:06:48

Right? Socially culturally.

Melinda Lee: 00:06:51

Yeah.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:06:51

So if if you if you were taught to in that way,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:06:57

using blaming statements are, these are some of the common

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:05

unhealthy, okay, communication strategies that parents use. And

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:10

this is that sounds like blaming and accusing, like, Oh, you did

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:14

it again? What's wrong with you? Like, let's say, like, a team

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:19

puts a youth trying to cook something, and he puts his pan

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:23

on the on the stove and starts to like, it starts to burn,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:27

right? So the parent may instantly blame and accused say,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:30

Oh, you did it again. You put oil in the pan, and you just

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:34

left the room? What's wrong with you? You could have started a

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:36

fire. Yeah, but that might sound like blaming and accusing.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:41

There's also name calling me and this could sound like how could

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:45

you forget to walk your bike? Right? That was stupid. No

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:49

wonder it got stolen. I can't believe you're solely

Ashley Ikeda: 00:07:51

responsible.

Melinda Lee: 00:07:53

That brings back memories. I wouldn't my dad used

Melinda Lee: 00:07:56

to say you're stupid. You're never gonna graduate. You don't

Melinda Lee: 00:08:00

know what you're doing. And his in his mind. He thinks that he's

Melinda Lee: 00:08:04

helping me. I mean, that was his upbringing. And that's probably

Melinda Lee: 00:08:07

how he was taught. Right. And so for him, for him to do that to

Melinda Lee: 00:08:11

me. I think he thinks that I mean, did you experience

Melinda Lee: 00:08:13

something like that? Definitely. It's a criticism, and they feel

Melinda Lee: 00:08:18

like that's how I'm going to help this person.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:08:22

Yes, it took me a long time to understand the

Ashley Ikeda: 00:08:25

difference between intent versus impact. Right, I received the

Ashley Ikeda: 00:08:29

same kind of upbringing. And while I believe that my parents

Ashley Ikeda: 00:08:35

had good intentions, right, she was trying to raise me to be a

Ashley Ikeda: 00:08:38

respectful person. But at the same time, the impact it had on

Ashley Ikeda: 00:08:43

me, I think, was damaging, right? Because I started to

Ashley Ikeda: 00:08:47

believe that everything I did reflected me as a person, the

Ashley Ikeda: 00:08:51

grades that I got the, the job that I had. And so I think it

Ashley Ikeda: 00:08:57

becomes really detrimental to a person's self esteem when

Ashley Ikeda: 00:09:02

they're being told you're stupid. You're dumb for doing

Ashley Ikeda: 00:09:07

these things, and then we internalise that belief. Gosh, I

Melinda Lee: 00:09:11

thought I was stupid for the longest time.

Melinda Lee: 00:09:14

That's why I went to GGU with you, when I saw you getting my

Melinda Lee: 00:09:17

masters. I was like, I'm gonna prove them wrong. So pardon him.

Melinda Lee: 00:09:20

It did work a little bit, because I wanted to prove him

Melinda Lee: 00:09:23

wrong. But at the same time, I know that was slow, like having

Melinda Lee: 00:09:27

me steady flow for a long time. One of the benefits of

Melinda Lee: 00:09:33

capitalising on someone's strengths or values, I think

Melinda Lee: 00:09:36

they just have a much better easier time and more flow and

Melinda Lee: 00:09:40

growth and expansion, versus a push or a pull or approving. I

Melinda Lee: 00:09:45

don't know what I mean. What are your thoughts around that? Like?

Melinda Lee: 00:09:49

Yeah

Ashley Ikeda: 00:09:50

Well I think guilt has been used as, as a tool,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:09:57

right to keep people in the pack. Right, so we're ancestors

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:01

of hunter gatherers, right? So we lived in tribes. And in order

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:06

to keep a person in tribe, you, a person would have to use shame

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:10

or guilt to keep them in. Yeah, yeah, I think there's that

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:14

unconscious bias. But also, we have a negativity bias built

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:20

into their brain, right. So it's much easier to point out the

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:23

things that a person is doing wrong than it is to point than

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:28

it is to point out when someone is doing something, right. And

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:33

then also, I think we live in a very fear based mindset. Where,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:40

you know, a lot of our actions come out of fear. And I think a

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:44

lot of parents have fears for their children. And I think we

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:49

try to use like you're seeing with the flow mindset, right?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:52

Like, we use a growth based mindset, and wow, the person's

Ashley Ikeda: 00:10:55

strengths. Because I think that goes a long way. Because let's

Ashley Ikeda: 00:11:00

just say, you know, a team gets a bad grade on a test. And the

Ashley Ikeda: 00:11:05

parent is like, oh, what's wrong with you? How could you get that

Ashley Ikeda: 00:11:08

up? You're so stupid, that team will most likely never want to

Ashley Ikeda: 00:11:12

be a part of that classic. Right? Versus the parents, and

Ashley Ikeda: 00:11:16

hey, that's okay. Right? Mistakes happen. This is how you

Ashley Ikeda: 00:11:19

learn. This is how you grow. We can work on this. Yeah, I don't

Ashley Ikeda: 00:11:23

probably feel more motivating for the team to want to do more

Ashley Ikeda: 00:11:26

of that.

Melinda Lee: 00:11:27

Right? Right. So same thing with managers, right?

Melinda Lee: 00:11:29

So manager, you're talking about a parent and teen dynamic, where

Melinda Lee: 00:11:34

a parent will reprimand the teen and then the team doesn't want

Melinda Lee: 00:11:38

to do the activity or the homework and, and so similar

Melinda Lee: 00:11:42

dynamic with a manager and also an employee? Correct, right? It

Melinda Lee: 00:11:47

says a power you have to do you do have authority over this

Melinda Lee: 00:11:50

person. And so how you use your words, in terms of how to

Melinda Lee: 00:11:54

motivate that person is so important, right? If you're

Melinda Lee: 00:11:57

reprimanding the person, they're just in fear. And is that really

Melinda Lee: 00:12:01

what you want? Is that really going to create the outcome from

Melinda Lee: 00:12:07

a fear based mode versus someone that is free to, to because they

Melinda Lee: 00:12:12

feel confident because they feel they're not afraid of messing

Melinda Lee: 00:12:17

up? Right? Because if they're afraid of messing up, I found

Melinda Lee: 00:12:20

that is when people start to contract, and then it becomes

Melinda Lee: 00:12:22

worse. So if they're, if you're open as a manager, to allowing

Melinda Lee: 00:12:24

them to just mess up, as long as it's a safe area safe place,

Melinda Lee: 00:12:33

then they're going to be more open and experiment and get

Melinda Lee: 00:12:36

creative. And then they end up succeeding and doing things that

Melinda Lee: 00:12:41

are even, you know, beyond what you probably would have thought

Melinda Lee: 00:12:44

because they had the freedom to

Ashley Ikeda: 00:12:46

Right. Yeah, I think that's the

Melinda Lee: 00:12:50

growth mindset. Go ahead.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:12:51

Yeah. I just wanted to kind of piggyback off

Ashley Ikeda: 00:12:55

of what you were saying, right, in terms of managers and parents

Ashley Ikeda: 00:12:58

using punitive and harsh and critical ways of maybe improving

Ashley Ikeda: 00:13:06

their team, right, we talked about the the difference between

Ashley Ikeda: 00:13:09

intent versus impact. But I think the consequence of that

Ashley Ikeda: 00:13:13

strategy is that it damages the relationship. Yeah, right. This

Ashley Ikeda: 00:13:17

person will no longer wants to come to you when they are

Ashley Ikeda: 00:13:21

experiencing a problem. Right. And then now maybe they're

Ashley Ikeda: 00:13:24

they're, they're hiding their work or hiding the things that

Ashley Ikeda: 00:13:28

they're doing.

Melinda Lee: 00:13:30

Right. And parents, their wives, my daughter or my

Melinda Lee: 00:13:33

son in the room all the time. Yeah. Right. So

Ashley Ikeda: 00:13:36

I talked about keeping the lines of

Ashley Ikeda: 00:13:38

communication open. And in order for that to happen, there needs

Ashley Ikeda: 00:13:42

to be trust. And trust goes both ways. Right? I think trust has

Ashley Ikeda: 00:13:48

to be earned.

Melinda Lee: 00:13:50

So let's say what a parent has, there's some open

Melinda Lee: 00:13:54

line of communication, there's some trust there, what are some

Melinda Lee: 00:13:58

ways like and if I'm a parent, and I want to, I want to what

Melinda Lee: 00:14:03

does that call out a certain behaviour that I think that can

Melinda Lee: 00:14:07

be improved? Or that they can change? Like, what are some

Melinda Lee: 00:14:10

statements or suggestions that you have?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:14:14

So I think the first I think the first skill

Ashley Ikeda: 00:14:19

that needs to be taught in practice is active listening.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:14:22

And I think a lot of people think active listening is much

Ashley Ikeda: 00:14:26

harder than it actually is. Right? And yes, it is. It is

Ashley Ikeda: 00:14:30

complicated, because you do have to be aware of of your

Ashley Ikeda: 00:14:39

unconscious biases and also be aware of your thoughts and

Ashley Ikeda: 00:14:42

feelings that might come up if this a teen or an employee is

Ashley Ikeda: 00:14:47

coming to you in a place of distress. So you're kind of

Ashley Ikeda: 00:14:51

you're you're paying attention to both how you're, what you're

Ashley Ikeda: 00:14:54

thinking and how you're feeling and also trying to understand

Ashley Ikeda: 00:14:57

what another person is thinking and feeling Right. But in terms

Ashley Ikeda: 00:15:02

of active listening, the use of I statements is really

Ashley Ikeda: 00:15:07

important. Because so an if statement to sound like I think,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:15:12

or I feel, or I observed, I think a lot of people start off

Ashley Ikeda: 00:15:17

the sense with the word you, which can make a person feel

Ashley Ikeda: 00:15:20

defensive, and then they'll shut down and there is no longer that

Ashley Ikeda: 00:15:25

open line of communicating. The person has gone into that fight

Ashley Ikeda: 00:15:30

flight or freeze state.

Melinda Lee: 00:15:32

Right, right. Right. I love that. All right,

Melinda Lee: 00:15:35

right. So first, knowing where you're coming in with the

Melinda Lee: 00:15:39

unconscious bias or certain assumptions, beliefs, and then

Melinda Lee: 00:15:45

knowing that the other person also has them too. And so you

Melinda Lee: 00:15:49

know, how, like being aware of them as much as we can, and then

Melinda Lee: 00:15:54

moving more into active listening, trying to be present

Melinda Lee: 00:15:58

with the person actively listening to where they're at.

Melinda Lee: 00:16:04

And then using I statements, I language, so that I hear this.

Melinda Lee: 00:16:08

So let me understand. I had you know, if I get the straight, I

Melinda Lee: 00:16:12

hear this, I'm noticing this. And so then that way, it's sends

Melinda Lee: 00:16:18

this message that I am trying to listen, I'm trying to be here

Melinda Lee: 00:16:22

for you, versus trying to blame you for something. Right?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:16:27

Yeah, I think in my work with parents, they

Ashley Ikeda: 00:16:33

instantly jump into solution mode. Yeah. Right. Right. And

Ashley Ikeda: 00:16:37

they're they're trying to fix the problem, instead of just

Ashley Ikeda: 00:16:41

listening. Which is some, maybe something that all the person

Ashley Ikeda: 00:16:46

needs, maybe they don't need a solution, maybe they just need

Ashley Ikeda: 00:16:50

someone to listen. Right. And I think people really feel like

Ashley Ikeda: 00:16:54

they have to come up with the perfect response. But I shared

Ashley Ikeda: 00:16:58

this video often with parents, it's a video by Brene Brown,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:17:03

who's an amazing psychologist who talks about the difference

Ashley Ikeda: 00:17:08

between empathy and sympathy. Right? So empathy is really

Ashley Ikeda: 00:17:13

stepping into another person's shoes and being with them. And

Ashley Ikeda: 00:17:18

sympathy. It's a really cute little video where there's like,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:17:21

an animal down in the hole. And sympathy is kind of going into

Ashley Ikeda: 00:17:27

that hole with them and being with them. And sympathy is kind

Ashley Ikeda: 00:17:30

of this animal that's looking down into the hole, right and

Ashley Ikeda: 00:17:35

saying, oh, yeah, it really sucks down there. Yeah, yeah.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:17:39

And then they say the words, but at least right? Well, at least

Ashley Ikeda: 00:17:42

you have this and at least you have that.

Melinda Lee: 00:17:44

Yeah, all parents do that because they're trying

Melinda Lee: 00:17:47

to come like, they don't want the child to be hurting. So

Melinda Lee: 00:17:52

they'll just reframe it and say, at least it's not that bad. At

Melinda Lee: 00:17:56

least you have this, oh, I'm sorry, you're down there, and

Melinda Lee: 00:17:59

you're hurting. But at least there's this because we want we

Melinda Lee: 00:18:02

want to bring them the solution. And like you said, sometimes

Melinda Lee: 00:18:05

they just want you to be with them. Maybe the sadness with

Melinda Lee: 00:18:09

them or the disappointment. You know, they didn't get you know,

Melinda Lee: 00:18:13

when when rolled into they didn't get selected for the

Melinda Lee: 00:18:15

sports team. Well, whatever that is, right. Yeah, yeah. So tell

Melinda Lee: 00:18:20

me again, I mean, I'm so I love this stuff. I really love this

Melinda Lee: 00:18:24

stuff. Because I really I know that so many parents, managers

Melinda Lee: 00:18:28

are out there out there and just not having the right statements

Melinda Lee: 00:18:31

communication way to communicate with them. And I think this is

Melinda Lee: 00:18:34

so powerful and effective.

Melinda Lee: 00:18:38

And I don't know if we went back into what are those if I didn't

Melinda Lee: 00:18:42

need to correct or give them feedback about a specific

Melinda Lee: 00:18:47

behaviour, the eye language, there are certain statements

Melinda Lee: 00:18:52

like, we want to be direct, like how do we be direct and also

Melinda Lee: 00:18:55

empathetic at the same time without causing defensiveness?

Melinda Lee: 00:18:59

Do you have some tools for that?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:19:01

Yeah, so I think the first thing is maybe to

Ashley Ikeda: 00:19:06

externalise what a person might be feeling in order to create

Ashley Ikeda: 00:19:11

empathy. Right? So let's just say a team gets a bad grade on a

Ashley Ikeda: 00:19:17

test, right? Okay. Um,

Melinda Lee: 00:19:20

and they haven't studied, right? So let's just

Melinda Lee: 00:19:22

say, it's not only about the grade, but it's like, Hey, I

Melinda Lee: 00:19:25

noticed that you're out playing football or out watching TV, and

Melinda Lee: 00:19:29

then and then you get the bad grades. So we're noticing that

Melinda Lee: 00:19:32

the behaviour that led up to the bad grades that we want to call

Melinda Lee: 00:19:35

out how do we say that in an empathetic way?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:19:40

So there's a scene of psychology we say name it's

Ashley Ikeda: 00:19:43

attainment, okay, right, because emotions really do influence our

Ashley Ikeda: 00:19:47

thoughts and our behaviours, right? So most likely, this teen

Ashley Ikeda: 00:19:51

is already feeling guilty and bad about getting this bad

Ashley Ikeda: 00:19:55

grade. And if you instantly go into that solution Problem

Ashley Ikeda: 00:20:00

Solving now this you're not really empathising or validating

Ashley Ikeda: 00:20:04

this team's feelings. So first, they might say, hey, you know, I

Ashley Ikeda: 00:20:08

noticed that you're feeling really upset. Right? Is there?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:20:12

Is there anything that happened today? So you want to just kind

Ashley Ikeda: 00:20:16

of pose a question, right? And use that

Melinda Lee: 00:20:19

naming it and naming the feeling,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:20:21

naming that feeling first. And you can also

Ashley Ikeda: 00:20:25

use yourself as an example, right? Like, oh, gosh, I'd be

Ashley Ikeda: 00:20:28

really frustrated or sad. If I got an F on my math on my math

Ashley Ikeda: 00:20:33

test.

Melinda Lee: 00:20:34

Right, right. Okay. Right. So we're naming it and

Melinda Lee: 00:20:37

then to tame it. So I'm frustrated and naming that

Melinda Lee: 00:20:40

feeling or that emotion. i Yeah, that's frustrating. You got that

Melinda Lee: 00:20:45

F? Or that's yeah, I'd be frustrated too. Like that. Okay.

Melinda Lee: 00:20:50

Yeah.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:20:51

And then you want to really, you want to

Ashley Ikeda: 00:20:55

externalise the problem, and have them understand that

Ashley Ikeda: 00:20:58

they're not the problem that but that this problem is here. Yes,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:21:03

that we are both as a team tackling the same side, we're

Ashley Ikeda: 00:21:09

not we're not against each other. But we need to figure out

Ashley Ikeda: 00:21:14

a solution to this problem. Yes, sometimes a person may not be

Ashley Ikeda: 00:21:19

ready for it yet. Right. So I always like to ask first, what

Ashley Ikeda: 00:21:23

do you need in this moment? Right, maybe, maybe this person

Ashley Ikeda: 00:21:28

just needs some space? Then when they're ready, when they're

Ashley Ikeda: 00:21:33

feeling more regulated? Because we can't You can't. You can't

Ashley Ikeda: 00:21:39

think rationally. While you're feeling stressed, or anxious or

Ashley Ikeda: 00:21:45

overwhelmed. Yeah.

Melinda Lee: 00:21:47

So many times, parents, managers, okay, let's

Melinda Lee: 00:21:49

come up with a solution. What are we going to do to fix this?

Melinda Lee: 00:21:51

How are we going to fix this? So you're saying like to ask for

Melinda Lee: 00:21:54

permission? Right? Like ask for permission? What do you need

Melinda Lee: 00:21:57

right now?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:21:59

Meeting a person where they're at? Yeah, yeah.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:22:02

Right. Right, instead of trying to rush the process, right?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:22:05

Because again, if if they're in that fight, fight or free state,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:22:09

you're not going to get a logical rational response. Yeah.

Melinda Lee: 00:22:14

Right. Right. Love it. So and then once they are

Melinda Lee: 00:22:19

feeling okay, they're ready, then what do we say to them? I

Melinda Lee: 00:22:22

love the and then also that the problem is outside? How do you

Melinda Lee: 00:22:28

do that? What are some statements? How do you

Melinda Lee: 00:22:30

communicate that to allow them to let them know that this is

Melinda Lee: 00:22:33

not you? There's so many times we can say you didn't do this

Melinda Lee: 00:22:37

right? And so then that means I'm the problem. How do you

Melinda Lee: 00:22:41

communicate and make it clear that there's a problem outside?

Melinda Lee: 00:22:45

Not you? You're not You're not the problem?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:22:48

Again, coming from a place of curiosity, right? And

Ashley Ikeda: 00:22:51

you have every right to express your observations using those if

Ashley Ikeda: 00:22:56

statements. Yeah, right. Like in, let's go back to the team

Ashley Ikeda: 00:23:00

who wasn't studying. And you could say, oh, you know, I

Ashley Ikeda: 00:23:08

noticed that last Wednesday, that kind of, after you got home

Ashley Ikeda: 00:23:13

from school, you just use you seemed really tired. And I

Ashley Ikeda: 00:23:18

noticed that that you you didn't study. Or maybe you didn't have

Ashley Ikeda: 00:23:27

enough time to study. So just coming at it from a place of

Ashley Ikeda: 00:23:33

curiosity, and most people know what they need. But you know,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:23:43

it's not about how smart you are, it's just about having

Ashley Ikeda: 00:23:48

effective strategies to be successful. Naming that, right.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:23:54

Like, again, same, you know, again, like I, it has nothing to

Ashley Ikeda: 00:23:59

do with you as a person, but there is this problem, right?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:24:04

And if the problem is not studying, and I think helping

Ashley Ikeda: 00:24:10

one understand the reasons for why they're not studying, right,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:24:14

because I think avoidance, it's another form of dealing it's

Ashley Ikeda: 00:24:19

it's a form of anxiety, right people avoid, because there is

Ashley Ikeda: 00:24:24

something threatening or something scary. Yeah, that is

Ashley Ikeda: 00:24:29

like a test. Yeah,

Melinda Lee: 00:24:31

you're bringing patients a lot of time with

Melinda Lee: 00:24:33

presentations. For exactly the same thing with a child and

Melinda Lee: 00:24:39

maybe they're just threatened. That's so true. Yeah, yeah,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:24:44

that was a way to cope. I'm going to avoid or I'm

Ashley Ikeda: 00:24:47

going to procrastinate, right. And so normalising that

Melinda Lee: 00:24:52

yeah, I love that. I love that. Wow, that is so

Melinda Lee: 00:24:57

good. That was so good. That was really how For

Ashley Ikeda: 00:25:01

think Well, I mean, this is one of the most

Ashley Ikeda: 00:25:06

common issues. Right. But yeah, I think there's that lack of

Ashley Ikeda: 00:25:13

understanding that I think a lot of what we do does come from

Ashley Ikeda: 00:25:20

that anxiety or fear, which I think is so ingrained in us.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:25:26

Right. And I think that's really I think, it starts in the ways

Ashley Ikeda: 00:25:32

that we communicate with each other. Right? Because, you know,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:25:36

I think the words that we say to each other are impactful, but

Ashley Ikeda: 00:25:44

also the words that we say to ourselves. Yeah. Right. And I

Ashley Ikeda: 00:25:48

think we are all so harsh and critical of ourselves. And I

Ashley Ikeda: 00:25:54

think we automatically just behave out of fear. Mm hmm.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:26:02

Because we're not growing or learning from in that place.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:26:05

Yeah.

Melinda Lee: 00:26:06

Right. Because we're afraid that we're not good

Melinda Lee: 00:26:08

enough. Now, we're afraid that other people are experiencing,

Melinda Lee: 00:26:12

they're not good enough. And so we start to speak from fear.

Melinda Lee: 00:26:17

Love that. And so what is one piece of advice or a couple of

Melinda Lee: 00:26:21

statements that you want to leave? Parents?

Ashley Ikeda: 00:26:30

One, one thing that I learned from one of my

Ashley Ikeda: 00:26:36

professors in grad school is when he was teaching us active

Ashley Ikeda: 00:26:40

listening, he said, it's really simple. You just basically have

Ashley Ikeda: 00:26:44

to repeat the last that last sentence that the person said,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:26:48

yeah, right. Right. Right. But the way that you say it could

Ashley Ikeda: 00:26:56

create an opportunity for more conversation, right. So maybe we

Ashley Ikeda: 00:27:03

could try practising this maybe. Melinda, do you mind just saying

Ashley Ikeda: 00:27:06

anything that comes to mind?

Melinda Lee: 00:27:09

I am passionate about leadership. Hmm.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:27:15

You're passionate about leadership?

Melinda Lee: 00:27:18

yeah, It's just that I think we need really

Melinda Lee: 00:27:23

great leaders, and we need to be able to lift each up as leaders

Ashley Ikeda: 00:27:33

So we need great leaders, right. And we need

Ashley Ikeda: 00:27:36

great leaders to lift each other up. So in the first, the first

Ashley Ikeda: 00:27:41

sense, right, I just kind of reflected back what you said,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:27:44

but in the form of a question.

Melinda Lee: 00:27:48

Yeah. Right. And so it's, it's more about, like, how

Melinda Lee: 00:27:52

we say it. More about, yeah, the connections, you gave me a

Melinda Lee: 00:27:57

connection, you connected with me and how you said it, not just

Melinda Lee: 00:28:01

like your professor said, which he had good intent, but the

Melinda Lee: 00:28:04

impact was missing. All right, yeah. Good intent in terms of,

Melinda Lee: 00:28:08

yes, the words are right, you did what he said. But then the

Melinda Lee: 00:28:12

impact is, you want to, we want to include the connection part.

Melinda Lee: 00:28:16

And don't forget that as parents, as managers, as leaders

Melinda Lee: 00:28:21

with authority over others, we want you know, and you have good

Melinda Lee: 00:28:25

intentions. Just be aware that just because you have good

Melinda Lee: 00:28:29

intentions doesn't mean that you're making the impact. And so

Melinda Lee: 00:28:33

just being more aware and intentional with your own

Melinda Lee: 00:28:37

biases, and be able to say things that so that the other

Melinda Lee: 00:28:41

person receives it.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:28:43

Right. And that requires your full presence.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:28:47

Yeah. Yeah. And attention. I agree. Yeah. With them, going

Ashley Ikeda: 00:28:55

into a hole with them. Yeah. And the other thing that I wanted to

Ashley Ikeda: 00:28:59

mention with that, as I was starting as a therapist, I had

Ashley Ikeda: 00:29:05

kind of like a young client, tell me something quite

Ashley Ikeda: 00:29:09

traumatic. And, you know, I was just beginning of the therapist.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:29:12

So I didn't know what to say I was just I was, I was like, I

Ashley Ikeda: 00:29:18

didn't have I didn't know what to say. And I said nothing. And

Ashley Ikeda: 00:29:22

then I actually started to cry. And we were just crying

Ashley Ikeda: 00:29:26

together. And in my supervision, I was telling my supervisor, I

Ashley Ikeda: 00:29:30

was like, Oh, my gosh, I failed as a therapist, like I didn't

Ashley Ikeda: 00:29:33

have anything to say we were just crying. And all she said

Ashley Ikeda: 00:29:37

was she just said you did what you need. You did what needed to

Ashley Ikeda: 00:29:40

happen. Like, okay, and then a year later, I get a note from

Ashley Ikeda: 00:29:48

this client. And she writes, she writes thank you for not knowing

Ashley Ikeda: 00:29:53

what to say. So sometimes that can be the point perfect

Ashley Ikeda: 00:30:00

response.

Melinda Lee: 00:30:01

Yeah, for sure. For sure. That's beautiful.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:30:06

Yeah. So I think as long as it's coming from a

Ashley Ikeda: 00:30:09

place of presence and authenticity, you don't have to

Ashley Ikeda: 00:30:14

worry about coming up with the perfect response. Because again,

Ashley Ikeda: 00:30:17

like that connection piece, I think that connection is so

Ashley Ikeda: 00:30:21

important. And that's what's most meaningful, that we all

Ashley Ikeda: 00:30:25

have a need to feel heard, and to feel understood. That really

Ashley Ikeda: 00:30:32

makes a big difference.

Melinda Lee: 00:30:35

And that is effective communication. Thank

Melinda Lee: 00:30:40

you, Ashley. That was amazing. Thank you so much for sharing

Melinda Lee: 00:30:44

your expertise and knowledge. I trust that people out there

Melinda Lee: 00:30:49

leaders out there are hearing this and receiving this and

Melinda Lee: 00:30:53

using it to become better leaders.

Ashley Ikeda: 00:30:56

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Melinda. This is

Ashley Ikeda: 00:30:59

actually a great experience. This is my first podcast. So I

Ashley Ikeda: 00:31:03

honoured that you had been on here and it was lovely speaking

Ashley Ikeda: 00:31:06

with you.

Melinda Lee: 00:31:07

Yes, yes, it was super fun and so impactful.

Melinda Lee: 00:31:11

Thank you, Ashley. Take care. Bye bye all