How Being a Teen Mom Taught Resilience Expert, Summer Owens, to Say SO What!

Welcome to diner talks with James. slide into the booth and let's have conversations we never want to end with friends. We never want to leave over food we probably shouldn't be.

My friends welcome to another episode of diner talks with James. I'm James and I'm super pumped to be here with you all kicking it in the diner, y'all. I had a fascinating experience in a diner this past week. It was down in Fort Myers, Florida. It was at a place called biggies. And I don't know if I've ever seen more Trump memorabilia in an establishment than this place. And everybody in there was wearing let's go Brandon shirts and there was a gentleman who wore a shirt that said don't New York, my Florida. And you know I ate and got out of there, y'all. It is what it is. The phone was good, though. And our waitress was incredible. So here we go to a greasy spoon, having a good meal with a fascinating experience. Exactly. Why I love diners. And I'm in love with you being here with me today. Friends, we got a really dope guest coming out. Her name is Summer Owens, she and I have known each other for I guess it's got to be three, four years, give or take a pandemic and she lit up my world when I met her and she's been on my list. I met her through the National Speakers Association. And she's just she and I have just crossed paths and a number of ways that every time I see her, she's just a light and I'm excited to get to hang out with her in the diner and for you to hang out with us as well. Let me tell you about her she's been fear featured, not feared, maybe feared by some we'll get to that. But she has been featured internationally on CNN and other media outlets for her story of extreme resilience. She's an award winning author and speaker with honors including the Women of Achievement heroism award top 40, under 40. She's also known all over the University of Memphis as just being a damn boss. She's has over 15 years of experience of marketing executive, as a marketing executive with companies including the NBA and FedEx as a CEO and founder of so what and the sowhat foundation and certified so what success coach, she inspires people to live a life of no judgment and no excuses. Let's go in college. She was a professional runner, but not on track and field folks, come on. No, she ran a class she ran to work. And she helped run many campus organizations. But mostly she ran after her dreams which she has touched to chew me which she is crushing today. She's also a bargain shopper. I got questions about that. But let's bring her out to the stage right now. Your friend in mind with the hot pink background. Summer Owens. Hey. I love was good.

Everything is good. Everything is good. Everything is all good. Oh, good.

Now you're down in Memphis right now. Correct?

Yep, I'm in Memphis.

How's Memphis treating you so far?

Memphis is good. I've been here now. Since 1998. So it must be all right. It is good. It's good. I'm happy to be here. And yeah, just all the things that you said. It's been a good place for me. It's been a really good place for me.

I love it. That's amazing. Memphis is a cool town. It is a misunderstood town. Memphis is one of those cities that has taken a while to catch up with the times. And segregation was such a huge problem in Memphis longer than many cities of its size actually. And it's still still impacted today. It's a very divided city. And that causes a lot of people to misunderstand it and not appreciate it but I freakin love Memphis regret not just because of Beale Street and, and not just not just because of some of those things. I don't I don't care about the ducks in the hotel. Right, like good for them. They're adorable. But no. I love that Memphis is try and I love the barbecue in Memphis. I've had some outrageous fried chicken in Memphis. And I've stopped by the Lorraine Motel. And the incredible powerful Civil Rights Museum that is there. It's just it is just an incredible city and I love it down there.

I'm impressed James you know a lot about this. I love I love it. Yeah, I guess story. Everything you just said I got a story. The ducks,

the ducks, those damn ducks in the Peabody. That brings me to one of our sponsors of our podcast the Peabody Hotel in Memphis. No, I'm just kidding. Summer. So where were you born and raised? Where? Where would you come up?

I'm born and raised just down the street from Memphis between Nashville and Memphis in Jackson, Tennessee, Jackson, Tennessee, Tennessee, but I moved to Memphis in 1997 for college to attend the the University of Memphis, which everybody knows me knows I am a super alum of the University of Memphis like a super fan, super alum of the University of Memphis. And so yeah, I started my career here after I graduated, and I've been here ever since.

I love it. I love it. You know, I've spoken to the University of Memphis a few times and whenever I get on stage and say it's an honor to be here, but y'all root for the wrong tigers as A Clemson Tiger

I am definitely a super University of Memphis Tigers. You know, yeah, it's a University of Memphis this my my thing because I've been really, really blessed James. University of Memphis really embraced me as a teen mom, like I will get into the store, but as a teen mom at the University of Memphis, and I was able to, to really push through into graduate because that's you. We both speak the college audiences all the time. And a big challenge with educators period is just graduation, college completion, right? Yeah. And so I'm really, really grateful for the support I got from the University of Memphis so that I could graduate and, and do the things that I've been able to do. So I was Miss Universe in Memphis when I graduated. So I'm like, and I've done other stuff in Memphis. And so it's only one tiger that matters.

One more shot. I respect it. I respect your passion. I love it. I love it. So, you know, summer this show is called diner talks with James. And I think that some of the best conversations in our lives happened late at night over the food we shouldn't be eating with the friends we never want to leave. And so I'm wondering, you know, I know I know you're a little more grown now but maybe maybe you still have a late night eating pleasure. So What's What's your guilty pleasure late at night or what was it?

What it is now is chocolate and why not really a boo boo. But dark chocolate. Let me specify dark chocolate. So the diner food I do like the diner food. But during the day, not so much tonight. And I don't I'm not a big snacker just being honest. I'm not really a big stacker I'm not even a big eater to be honest. But I love dark chocolate and I love a good glass of wine. And the older I get and I'm getting up there, the more I like a good glass of wine.

Now with the dark chocolate typically you pair red with that you go and red wine with that you do it right. Cabernet Cabernet Cabernet all day.

Yep. I like the Cabernet all day.

Summer Cabernet all day Owens nice ring. Does actually. That's amazing. Now as as you've also gotten older, do you have you started to appreciate wines as well like you now? Are you are you turning into a Somal? Yay. Like Well, I like Cabernets from Napa Valley or from Austria like are you into that or it's like as long as it's red in the Cabernet? Let's go Yeah, I'm

not bougie like that. Now I have had a pleasure and a privilege to go to Napa Valley and and try different wines. And so I do I can taste you know appreciate a good wine. It doesn't you know, and I can I can recognize a cheap one. But but somewhere in the middle I'm good. I'm good. Yeah,

that's great. That's great. I appreciate it. I don't know much about wines. That eggs are so are you watching Yeah no I know enough. I know enough to have a conversation and make it sound like I know about why but that's about where it stops right. Which is dangerous right? Someone who knows a little bit but talks a lot is kind of the worst person on earth

maybe guilty of it too.

But that's fine. Well, you know I host my own podcast so here we go. So and now when it comes to chocolate he said dark chocolate Are you are you a brand was there a brand of chocolate that you love like a you dove dark chocolates all day? Are you I don't know if something else lint about what do you do?

I'm not that big on that either. Okay, um, but it's dark chocolate. I don't like milk chocolate. I could eat it if there's nothing else there. because it's so funny because a lot of people don't like dark chocolate. I'm

wrong summer.

I don't like white chocolate except James but I love dark chocolate. There's a guy here in Memphis, who actually is getting really famous and I'm really, really proud of him. I actually just interview him on my podcast. Oh, his name is Philip Ashley and he has a brand called Philip bashley Chocolates. And he makes really, really unique chocolate. You have to look him up. And so I really like his chocolates. They're not everyday chocolates, though, because they are pretty pricey.

But chocolates when you say I need a chocolates, yeah.

They love for the chocolate. Um, but he is Yeah, so I like his chocolate. I do like us chocolates too. Because like I said, they're really really, really creative, unique combinations that he does. But Harsco Hershey's dark chocolate is good. I'm good with whatever. I love it. It's good. Yep, yep. Yeah,

that's awesome. I am I'm a fellow chocoholic. Dark chocolate is my favorite, but I will eat all of the other chocolates as well because chocolate. Any chocolate is better than no chocolate as far as I'm concerned. But I was sure Philip Ashley, you said his name was

Philip Ashley chocolates.

Okay, sweet. That's great.

He's on my podcast. I just interview him and I'm sharing his story. Yeah.

Okay. Sweet. Sweet. Tell him tell everybody. What's the name of your podcast?

So what success stories with summer.

So what success stories was summer, say that 15 times. And it's pretty cool.

It's just like, it's not just like this, of course. But it's real casual conversations with people. You're sharing your stories. I love it. I love resilience, resilience is what I try to focus on.

Okay, amazing. Well, I look forward to being on it. And that's awesome. That's awesome. The the idea that you grew up in Jackson in Jackson, Tennessee, and now you're living in Memphis. But some things happened in between that tell me tell me about very real young summer Owens, like, you know what, when you were in elementary school, what did you want to be when you grew up summer, what was grow? What was your childhood, like?

I don't even remember necessarily thinking about what I wanted to be. But because in my childhood, and I shared this in my presentations, too, I had a nervous condition where, and it's hard to believe now. But I used to twist my hair and pull it out. Okay, route and suck my thumb. And so my mom in cutting all my hair off, and so have really low haircut. And bukti big. So I think there still be a big book teeth. And so I got bullied a lot. And, and I was really insecure, shy. And I say I was shy. But I don't think I was really shy. I just think I didn't like how I looked. And I didn't want people to see me. And so that made me shy. And so I just remember, if I had to say I had wanted to be something I just wanted to be confident. Not a career I can think of I can't think right now the career that I wanted. And again, I didn't have a whole lot of exposure to know what a lot of those options were. But that lack of self esteem, put me in a situation where I got pregnant when I was 15 by someone who told me I was pretty. And it's like, really. And so I ended up letting them touch me a little and he took it further. And I got pregnant by somebody I didn't really know. When I was 15, of course. And that was in my childhood. Though not I was a teenager, but I you know, still a child. And so I had to grow up real fast. And I did. I grew up and raised my son I pushed through and that's why I speak on resilience now is because that was pretty tough time in my life. But I did graduate from high school number eight in my class,

let's go.

And I was voted most likely to succeed. And I was really grateful that my classmates recognize that in me, it's pretty cool to say this just last night, I had a conversation a meeting with my class, we're planning my 25th class reunion, which is weird because I'm just 30 Right? Oh, weird. I don't know how that works. But it's in my class last night. And I'm just really grateful. Of course, there were people who judged me and looked down on me. But overall, my class embraced me like I said, I was voted most likely to succeed and I graduated number eight in my class and got a scholarship to college and that changed my life. And again, like, like I said before, because we speak to students, and mostly college students, we both know the power of that time in your life. And the trajectory can put you on either way good or bad based on those choices. And so I'm really grateful that after that pretty traumatic experience in my life I was able to push through and to get to college and get through college.

Yeah, I have it too with flying colors, as well. That's incredible. With your permission summer, can I ask you some more questions about your your earlier childhood? So, you know, you mentioned that you were getting bullied and you had this nervous tic where you will pulling out chunks of your hair. Was that something that was? Is that something that was? Was it a genetic disorder? Or was it like a true just like chewing xiety to the max where that's just what you would do? Or was it? Okay, I do, please?

Yeah, it's cool. I learned later you know, when I got growing trichotillomania. I know, right? Like I'm like, I probably even said it wrong. No, it's not genetic. To my knowledge. Somebody might chime in. I'm like, Yes, it is. But to my knowledge is not genetic. Nobody else in my family had that experience. And my mom basically called it a nervous conditions. Like that's how I dealt with stress, anxiety, because this was when I was like, three, four years old, really, really young, up until I was five, and I sucked my thumb, I think probably until like third grade. But I stopped pulling out my hair, but I would, yeah, I would pull it out and ball it up and stick it in my ear is weird. My mom said she would find it behind my bed. Yeah, I didn't. I mean, literally from the root. Which was was like a word. I can't imagine doing that now. But again, it was and it just kind of went away. It went away on its own. Maybe partially because I'm like, I don't like looking like and maybe eventually started hurting. Um, I don't know, I know, sucking my thumb became a decision where I had to really, really work. I put a bandaid on my thumb and started feeling NASA keep sucking on a bandaid. And that's how I stopped myself from sucking my thumb, which I do think that was genetic, because my son sucked his thumb. And then my granddaughter even did for a little bit. But yeah, that condition. I don't know. But I know since I wrote because I wrote about in my book, even I've had several people to message me and tell me that either they or their children have the same experience that same condition.

Wow, that's fascinating. I also was a serious thumb sucker. I sucked my thumb so much that I changed the shape of the inside of my mouth, right. And when it came time to get braces before I was able to get braces on, I had to get one of those jaw whiners. So it like spread it out so that I could get my teeth back aligned. So I changed the shape of my hard palate, because I stuck my thumb for so long.

Me too James, it for me, it's supposed to be a you know, you made it a V, I'm happy to say yeah, I have to have braces, I didn't have to have a jaw Weidner, but I had to have teeth several teeth pooled so that my so that that orthodontist can reshape my mouth and after I got my braces off, I almost didn't recognize myself because my face look different.

Yeah, right. It's crazy. Yeah, I had like a cathedral ceiling in there.

This was in my 30s I was in my 30s when I got braces.

Yeah. Yeah. You really really good because at that point, you're self aware of how you look also so you can definitely see some of those changes. Yeah,

well, I was aware I was aware but I was a struggling single mom. Yeah. And for you know for a lot of those years and then I could told you my son said to stomp too so he did the same thing to his mouth and I prioritize that's what moms do. I prioritize him getting braces over me getting braces. So I did his fires. Once I got I was working at FedEx and I'm making a little bit more money and had good dental insurance. I got his first and then I got mine like I said and honestly James it was I was in I started speaking and I just started speaking and I'm like okay, now um, I may be seen a little bit more. So let me go on and get this to get

these teeth right

go ahead and get this. I mean it's weird too because I have really come to it wasn't horrible, but it was just part of accepted like that's how I look you know that you know my teeth kind of stick out and people I got compliments on my smile. I remember that and looking back on like wearing a couple made me my teeth

I mean, I'm glad I

got those braces though now because I ease as you can see Now it's hard to keep my mouth shut.

I mean, yeah, I mean, you have an award winning smile at this point. I didn't know you back then. But I can compliment you right now. If it's if it's not your smile, it's your personality. It lights up the room first. I don't know, you know? But yeah, the the idea that you were bullied when you were younger, was a lot of that bullying was that from? This is pre began, this was pre getting pregnant. Was it just because the way you look at buck teeth and your hair was super short? Is that why you were typically bullied?

Yeah, you know, so I've wrote about this in the book two. So in the first chapter, and I have curriculum that goes in my book. I don't know if I mentioned that to you. We can talk about that some more. But I have workbooks. But I focus on that in the first chapter. So what people said about me it was about my hair. Oh, you're a boy. And I don't like what and it had me thinking like, do I really like what am MIT, but when this is this, you know, when you think about bullying and where it comes from. And what I really like to talk about, to for people who are bullied, I had to understand that a lot of times, the bullying had nothing to do with me. It was about the people and even if and now it's so cool to because some of those same people who bullied me are my friends. Or at least people that I know are acquaintances now Facebook, friends, stuff like that. I've had a lot of them, come back and apologize. And tell me that the opposite of what I thought so I thought I looked ugly. I thought something was wrong with me. And the reality was, they were just trying to bring me down because they did not think I was ugly. Some of them that girl seemed like you were so cute. And and you just we just thought you were too cute. And you probably thought you were cute. And we want we didn't want you to feel like you were cute. Yeah, childish stuff, right. But the reality is, a lot of times is a source of bullying. It's a it's the other person's low self esteem or issues that they're dealing with. And they want somebody else to feel down to or be brought down to their level. And so it was really more that when I look back on it, because even with I have to show you sometimes and I share in my presentations, when I look at my pictures where my hair was low. I'm like, I was cute. I was like, I do not look like a boy, I do not look like a boy. And so is this my own realization of that. And that's why I like talking to young people right now who are getting bullied because they don't have name brand clothes and all the other stuff that keeps people bully them about. It's about loving yourself and embracing yourself in and saying this right here

saying you know what? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I think we as speakers. A lot of times when speakers don't know who they want to talk to, I encourage them to go back to what were some of those moments where you changed, like some of your breakthrough moments, right. And so you know, I talked about leadership and where I really learned about leadership was in college. And so I like to talk to college student leaders about that, because I know that moment transformed me. And I would love to help more people have that be a pivotal moment for them. Now I'm so hearing you talk about how you like to go back and talk to these individuals that are being bullied as as youth now for not wearing name brand clothes, or looking a little different acting a little different or whatnot, and just just literally trying to make it right, a lot of middle school and high school is about survival, both socially and depending on your community physically. And, and so yeah, I think it's I think it's powerful to hear to hear why you work with those people. Yeah, and,

uh, you know, in general, I'd like to speak on resilience, because it's about just getting through, right. So at whatever point so as a as a young child, but the real pivotal moment. And I like how you said that, about what changed your life. So real pivotal moment for me, is it 15 And I became a mom. And I had to graduate high school and you know, teenage years are hard for probably most people. So add a kid to the mix. And so I like to talk about getting through, and then I was a single mom. And so at that point, I'm an adult and I'm in a career, I'm a young professional, all the things that most of us end up doing, but I had a child in that so that's why I like talking about how do you get through when life is hard at whatever point and I also like talking about leadership to James because I did get a scholarship, a leadership scholarship. From high school to college, I came on a on a on a leadership scholarship and and I was a leader in high school even when I was a mom, I was editing yearbook staff and class presidents and you know, all that stuff. Cool stuff, but that was just kind of who I was that I needed to be involved in stuff and the same thing in college even though it was hard. And so I like talking about leadership too. And, and and the lessons that I got from being a parent and an early age on how I applied that to being a leader throughout my life, so, um, which one and I love it. Yeah.

I mean, getting pregnant at 15. Talk about talking about changing a childhood. Right. And your childhood? Ending childhood? Yeah, for sure. I'll let you say because you went through it. I don't want to name it. But yeah, ending your childhood. Now, which is crazy to hear, right? For most people, as you think about childhood, the fact that happened to you at 15. And so you had mentioned that, you know, this gentleman was one of the first people to ever tell you that you were pretty. And then he took things too far. It sounds like there was some unwanted actions that happen there, now and then, and then you're faced with this moment of being pregnant. How was that moment? Was it was it what were you like, automatic like, boom, okay, I'm gonna be a mom, or, you know, like, there's decisions to be made. And there's, you know, support to be found. And there's right, there's a lot of internal work what you tell him if you're, if you're willing to tell me about that moment at 15, where you had to, you know, make some of these decisions.

Yeah. So super scary. That's the feeling I was at, well, that's one feeling. It was like a roller coaster, like all kinds of feelings. Um, so and I, I go really deep into it on in my book, because I wrote my memoir, which is what changed my life, and made me a speaker, is because ideas share all the specific details and around it and the choices because yes, there are choices to be made. And at that time, I was I was totally against abortion. And I was even against adoption. Until it happened to me. And then I was in that place of I'm 15, that I don't know him and I have a whole life ahead of me. I don't know, I can't do this. I can't do this. And so it was a very, very tough time for me. But my mom essentially made the decision for me. And after she found out because I hid it from her. Like I said, Look, this is a plug, shameless plug for the book, read the book to get the full details. Because it was a journey, it's not a you know, it's not a quick story. But it was definitely a journey. But then the decision was made. And, and it was a tough decision. And I was not happy. I was just scared. And I cried for the majority of my pregnancy. And I was because I was scared. And I didn't know what I was going to do. And I mean, I was a kid, I was a teenager. And, um, but I, even the beginning of his life after I gave birth, I was I cry quite a bit, and I was feeling sorry for myself. And then the moment came, when I'm like, okay, I can keep crying and feeling sorry for myself. And you know, there were still other people who were feeling sorry for me too. But then I realized how far in life am I gonna get with other people's pity? Or my pity? Nowhere, and I'm like, okay, Summer, shake this shit off and, and, and figure out what you're going to do with your life. And that's when I kicked it into gear. I'm going back to school because I set out you know, six weeks, went back to school, and I played catch up, I had some teachers who really did care about me and saw that I was working hard. They let me stay after school and make up my work. And, and that's how I was able to end up graduating like the top of my class. Yeah, it was a blessing. But that was because I made a decision that I was done feeling sorry for myself, and I wanted to create a good life for myself and for my son. It was it was hard. And when I say it was hard, I mean, up until it was grown and it feels not easy today. It's still not being a parent is a it really is a lifelong thing. But I just made a decision that I'm going to make it I'm going to be okay. But yeah, I cried. I heard and I feared. I felt a lot of guilt, a lot of a lot of things and then you mentioned support. So I'm blessed because I do have my mom. And I had my grandmother ended up moving in with my grandmother. That's another story in the book. But I called them silent cheerleaders, James because they weren't the ones like someone who got this. You can do this and they weren't. It was more like somebody's got a doctor's appointment. I'll take you to your doctor's appointment. Here. You can drive my car, and that was when I was 15. I wasn't even supposed to be driving. By the way. I didn't even have a license. cuz they were there, you know, but I didn't have a whole lot of people like, come on Come like I am who I am now to other moms like, come on, this is what we got to do. Let's figure this out. Let's make this work. I kind of had to figure a lot of that stuff out. But I'm grateful to. For the people who were in my life. I was volunteering at my mom's job. When I found out I was pregnant in the summer that was volunteering and the volunteer coordinator. Her name is Suzanne Denton. Gotta give her a shout out. She is still my friend today. She is almost 80 years old. And she is still a good friend of mine. But she sent me a card every month that I was pregnant. just encouraged me. Yeah, you sent I got a card in the mail every month. And then after my son was born, she sent him a savings bond until he was 18. Every birthday, she sent him a savings bond every birthday. And so I'm giving that back. So I love in her bag because James, she she lost her son in a car accident probably about 15 years ago. And then this past Thanksgiving, she lost another son

to cancer. And she had six children. She was his last two children. And so she lost this last one. And I'm saying I sent her a car every month now. But she didn't and I remind her must like I said my son is 26 doing

maths hard summer math is hard.

Many years ago, but it meant so much to me at the hardest time in my life. Oh, that support system. And then I came to college. I moved to Memphis like as I moved out of Jackson to go to college. And I was a student leader. So I got involved and had to give a shout out to Tammy hedges, who is now the vice president. She's the Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs at the University of Memphis. But when I was in school, she was the director of the Student Activities Council. Sec. And I was inset, and she was a supporter for me, she, when my son was too young to go to daycare, her secretary will watch them sometimes she would watch them, she will keep them when I when I had tears she was like summer you need to study and I he could spend the night with me and spend the night with her. It would take them out to eat at restaurants, which is a big deal because I couldn't afford to take them out to eat and chew buying toys. I couldn't do that. And so I created a support system at the University of Memphis. And it was because people saw me working, they saw me trying and a few people loved me enough to really help me. And that's part of why that's the only tigers don't matter.

I can't even defend it, I can't even defend it. But yeah, that is it's beautiful. To hear how your community rose up for you. You know, whether it's your mom, your grandma, volunteer coordinator. And and then Tammy Tammy Hudgens who said her name was ages, hedges, excuse me, Tammy hedges, and her and her secretary and and to be able to be able to allow you to continue to chase your goal of creating a better life for yourself and for your son. Right, seeing that in you. You know, being a teen mom, I don't have that experience, believe it or not. But being a teen mom, I really also want to appreciate that, you know, you leaned into the fear, and you told us about the fear. Because I can only imagine. That's that's not what you pictured for your life. Right. And you had mentioned that you weren't necessarily dreaming about being an X or Y or a doctor or a lawyer or anything at that point in time. But no matter what you weren't dreaming about being a mom at 15. And, and life handed you a deck of cards and you and unfortunately, you had two people that were able to help you play it in a way that has been extremely impressive. And, and just because I can I can easily see here and look at a swath of your life. And I can read your book, Life After birth, a memoir of survival and success as a teenage mother, then I can read all that but I have no idea what was actually going on in your head. What having to find that balance because you know, being a parent, summer is something that you just touched on. And it's something that's been hard for me to grapple as a new dad is that it's about finding the balance of good selfish and bad selfish, like, you know, Goodsell fishes. A lot of parents think they need to take everything and just do everything for their children and it's all about their children and they're no longer allowed to have hobbies or time for themselves or joy. Your goals. And that's, that's not necessarily the definition of being a good parent. And I think it's part of it. But I think another huge part of is that good selfishness where it's like I need to, I need to make sure I'm good. I need to make sure I'm happy, I need to make sure I'm chasing some of my dream still, because that leading by example, is also just as important as some of these other things as well. Absolutely. Yeah, hearing you talk about that in a very different way that I'm currently experiencing, but at the same time, coming back to that same, you know, core message of you what you want to do when your dreams matter as well. Not at the expense of your children. But for the benefit of everybody.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, and at that time, James, like for me is yeah, it was they, they, it's not one or the other. For me, it was absolutely if I don't do this selfish, go to school, and even be a leader, like those things were that some people, you know, might have seen those as optional. For me, it was, it was part of my journey, and being better a better person was taken on these leadership roles in college, and even throughout my career, and it was want to be an example. But then to, like, those are the things that were going to help me to be able to provide financially for a better life for us. By me being able to say I accomplished these things. So it was Yeah, sort of selfish, but it was like, still, it's ultimately for footage hackled it's just for the child. But they too, like now that I have been an empty nester for over a decade in the crazy to think you have to think about yourself and do things for yourself, because the time will come when the child is not there in your house, you know, and you need to know who you are and have an identity outside of being the parent and I say that because I know lots of people who are are all in for their kids, which you should be to a good extent, but then you're nothing without them. And you got to find the right balance in that too.

Yes. Yeah, beautifully put beautifully put. You know, you mentioned that you're a super alum at Memphis, right. You went through your MBA over there.

No, no, actually the MBA came from Belhaven University, which I liked Belhaven to

me. I lived in Memphis. I hope you're not listening right now.

I know this secret. They know that. That's the way I feel. It is like, you know, like, like I tell young people to they're all in love and dating in high school and college and stuff. I'm like, date some other people. Make sure that's what you really, really want. So it's kind of the same thing. But I did get my MBA from Belhaven University to have a satellite campus campus here in Memphis. And so when I was working for the Memphis Grizzlies, I got my MBA over there. But, but I am but Memphis is the heart Petsmart

part you get you get your safe here. So So you got to do some pretty incredible things. Right? You said you work for the you work for the Grizzlies, you work for FedEx. You had you put your leadership skills into into practice with some of these incredible organizations. How did that come about?

Well, when I when I graduated from the University of Memphis, I was trying to find a job. And I was shocked. I was shocked at the time to see how hard it was for me. And the reason why I surprised James is because I work really, really hard. When I was in school. I was graduated magna cum, Lonnie. Yeah, I was a student leader. So I had all that stuff under my belt, you know, had some good experience there. I was Miss University of Memphis. And I had done an internship for three years. So I was like, oh, yeah, no brainer. I'm gonna find a job. But I was surprised that it was it was actually pretty difficult for me to even get an interview. And that was hard. I talked about that in the book too. And I talked about, you know, the challenge of that, but then it was at that time, and I'm a woman of faith James. And so I see how God works in my life. Sometimes it's afterwards, but I see it, but um, I ended up getting a job. I'll leave sort of that story, the part of the journey to DAGs out but the Memphis Grizzlies announced that they were moving to Memphis, Tennessee, from Vancouver, Canada. That same year after I graduated, and I remember saying, Man, it would be really cool to work in promotions is what I say for the Memphis Grizzlies. like it'd be cool. And so they came and they had these mass interviews for a sales position. And I'm like, I just wanna get my foot in the door. I hated sales. I had done an internship in marketing for Hilton Hotels Corporation. For the three years that I was there, they actually had offered me a sales position online. Now I do sales. But then here come the Grizzlies. And they're doing their offerings, doing these interviews, I was like, I'm a guest on the front door. And it was really, really a blessing because 1000s of people applied. And I think they were feeling like 3030 temporary sales peak sales position. So really sale the season tickets, and I got it. I got one of them as my first job at a college and, and I worked hard and trying to prove myself because they were temporary only four month positions. Oh, wow, only four months. And so in that four months, I'm like, I got to earn a job, a real job. And I did. And I got hired as a marketing coordinator. And then few months later, I became I mean, I got hired as a marketing assistant. And that quick store was the Marketing Marketing Director needed an assistant administrative assistant. And she was hired for a marketing coordinator, I applied for the marketing, marketing coordinator position. And she said, she didn't feel like I was qualified to be the marketing coordinator. And she felt like I was overqualified to be the assistant. So she made me an a marketing assistant. Like, whatever, whatever, just give me a job. Just give me a job. And she did. And a few months later, she made me marketing coordinator anyway. And we built FedEx for Marina. I love this history, we built FedEx for Marina, which is part of the stipulation, I know how you probably know because you know so much about Memphis, as part of stipulation of us getting the team here in Memphis was building a new arena. So then we built the arena, and they needed a marketing manager, and who's in place. I became the marketing manager, that'll sell the first Marketing Manager for FedEx for Marina. Wow. Now as a marketing manager for the arena, which was the events, the concerts, the dirt shows, as I shows, all of it, and the basketball team. So yeah, it was a blessing. So I got that position. And I was able to grow, I was able to hire people. And I'm looking back, I'm like, I was like 2224. And I was super young, but it was so awesome. The experiences, I was able to get a very, very special time. I have some cool stuff here, too. And you can see that this was from the very first game ever played here.

Wow. That's awesome.

Thanks for making history. So this is again from the vapors game.

That's such a cool ticket to

2001 November 1 2001. And I've got my name on it everything. So it was it was cool. Um,

that's all I see the Grizzlies Gabby, the basketball behind you also.

Yeah. I'm the team. So that was when I when I left the Grizzlies, I got my MBA and I was like, Okay, it's time to work a little bit less because I was working my butt off events, you know, all the animals a single mom. And so I got my MBA during that time. And I'm like, Okay, it's time for me to go make some money. And so they gave me that basketball. I don't know if you can see that. That was a FedExForum arena. Arena rent a prince of FedEx one Marina, and that was signed by the team. That's awesome. The staff and then the basketball signed by the team. So this is my shelf of cool stuff. I

got stuff that you earned though. From from from making from leaving your mark, leaving a legacy. That's incredible. I love that summer. That's so cool. And summer we fast forward this incredible experience with the Grizzlies and getting to get them to start from the bottom now they're here

I never made it to a Grizzlies game. I gotta do that next time. I'm in town. But But yeah, so the, you know, we get to work with the Grizzlies. And we get our MBA we have this short stint at this franchise company and then we're with FedEx. And at some point in time, you say, Yeah, but I got a story to tell. And I got a hell of a story. Right and and you write your book and then you start to get up on stages. How did the transition of being a speaker start?

So yeah, first of all, let me say this, I never ever, ever saw that from my life. I never saw an entrepreneur period for my life. So I got to FedEx. And I'm like, this is where I'm going to retire. This is it. I mean me You know, and a lot of people here Memphis if they do work for FedEx, save it, because it is a great company. And the pay is good. That's always important, right? The culture is great, that's really important. But then also, FedEx is so big, that you can work for that company have several career. So even in the time that I was at FedEx, I had several different managers and I worked in small business marketing, I worked in advertising as well. And, and I could have gone to other areas of marketing, even just in marketing could have, could have definitely had a full career being at one company. But I was going through another So what time in my life, I was going through a divorce, I had made the decision, and I got married. And it was my good. It was my right. It was a very, very hard time in my life. And that's when I moved out with my son, single mom again, because I was only in that situation for about a year and a half. And I was and I was hurting again. And so two things. One, I was hurting, I was dealing with that. And then also my son became a teenager, and that became more challenging. And I was able to see past myself. And I see, I was able to see that. I could speak to people and young people I was thinking especially girls, and they were listening to me when they weren't listening to their parents. And at the same time, I could see my son needing what I was giving to other people. So he needed a man to talk to him that wasn't his parent. So I said, let me do this. So I just started talking to young people, especially. And then I started writing because writing I've always liked writing. And so I started writing, which was therapeutic for me at that time while I was hurting. And, and I said, I didn't feel like, oh, I have this powerful story. I didn't, you know, you said that. I didn't feel like that. I just felt like, I need to write for me to feel better. And then at the time when I was writing now, I was able to see past myself. I'm like, Oh, I was a teen mom. But so many teen moms are not where I am. Like I had owned a house before I was living in apartment then it was because I had you know, moved out from my husband, but I had owned a house. I had a career, I had my vehicle, you know, I was self sufficient. And so I said, What is the disconnect? Like why? Why is it the case. And I said that now I need to tell my story, I'm going to write my story. So while it feels good for me to just be writing anyway, I'm going to write my story because I'm wanting some teen moms to see that. I grew up relatively poor, definitely lower middle class. And I didn't I had my father and my library wasn't really there. I had challenges to write, but I made it through. And this is how I did it. And I felt like it was important for me to go all the way back and share the full story. And so I wrote the I just wrote my book. And my hope was that some teen moms would see it and see, I can make it to statistically I think Ms. Statistics might have changed since I last did the research but only about a third graduate from high school. No. And like what because remember, I graduated number as voted most likely to see them like you don't have to do audit to congratulate I have no doubt to congratulate. And then only about 3% Complete College and I'm like what?

That's because I was Miss University of Memphis I graduated magna cum, Lonnie, I'm like, No, you can I don't care who you are, or what your situation is. You can graduate from high school, you can graduate from college or some other post secondary opportunity. And so that's why I wrote the book. But then the book took off. So many other people started reading it that we're not seeing mom, teen moms were, but then other educators and parents and man were reading and saying Now I understand single moms more I now understand my daughter more, and it just became something else. And people started asking me to speak and I was shy. Like I said when I was younger, I thought but then I got fired up though, when people would ask me if I would come and talk and people would line up to talk to me afterwards. And I'm like, What is this and then I knew I had to leave FedEx and it's been the time while I feel younger and look a little bit younger and people can you know young people can I felt like received me better. I gotta get out there and get this in front of them as much as I possibly can and I felt like you know and I know I still feel like help them make some better choices before they end up in a situation is really really hard to get out of or if they're already in this situation is showed They can still be okay. Yeah, that's how I became a speaker.

That's it. That's it just that. Summer That is incredible. And, you know, you list those statistics. And I as, as you were telling me your story earlier, I was like, This doesn't feel like the normal, right? Like your ability to have that kind of support system around you and your drive to still complete what you did and conquer what you conquered. All while being a wonderful mother is that it's a lot of it is, it's it's not, it's not your average teen moms story. And, and the statistics, as you learned, showed you that, and it's powerful to hear you talk about what's possible. Now, not everybody, you have to have a number of things lined up. And you have to have some of those folks that you had, that not everybody has that community around them like you did. And, and so but I love how you have turned your your story into a place to help others feel seen, feel heard. And the fact that you have men reading it and learning about single mothers and learning about women in general, that is powerful, that you have created this opportunity to open eyes, and open eyes to possibility or open eyes to just a learning experience, whatever it may be, for whoever a reader is, or are now a listener is it's really beautiful summer. And it's really it's cool to watch, and the way that you're such a dynamic speaker as well. And, and so you're great at what you do now. So I'm glad you punched that shyness in a face or at least, or at least punched in the face for your ability to stand on stage for that hour, whatever it is. But you know, I know you also now teach confidence classes and things like that. So resilience is what it all comes back to for you. And you know, yes, you talk about leadership. Yes, you talk about confidence, but I think, you know, your the trunk of your tree is resilience, and how confidence stems from that, and how leadership can stem from that or etc, etc, those kinds of things. So, I'm wondering, how do you define resilience?

Yeah. So let me I want to say this virus, because I like to make sure this is clear. Because I like because because people resilience comes down to us not not making excuses, right? And, and a lot of people can use this as an excuse, and this is why I want to talk about it is that they don't have the support system, because you talked about the support system that I had around me. And then not everybody has a support system. So I want to because there are many times in my life where I felt like I didn't have the support that I needed that I needed. And Pete When outside looking in and people thought I had this amazing support that I actually did not have. I'm grateful for the support that I did have, but there was a lot of support that I didn't have. And then I also like to talk to young people, or people period, about support and recognizing what is the support around them and why I had the support I did had and for them to see what support do they have. So for example, especially with the school for teen moms were not especially but including school for teen moms, where I've been a mentor for over a decade. And you know, a lot of them have some really tough family situations, really challenging family situations. And mine was better, for lack of a better where it was mine was better. However, what I like to explain to them is they have the support of the school so they can bring their children to school. So they don't have to look for a babysitter. They do sometimes have challenges getting to school, which I get that and I had that. But then they have their their children. They can bring them there, they have childcare, but then all of them and I'm even dealing with a situation right now with one of my mentees right. A lot of times people have support that they don't appreciate and they don't recognize. And a lot of our young people have support that they even push away because they are maybe not saying the things that they want to hear. And so the support, I believe is always there. No matter who you are, what your situation is, the support is there in may not be from the person you think it should be. You know, it may not look exactly like you think it should look, but it's your job to recognize where it is. And to be somebody that's easy to support. Because again, and you probably had no other examples like this to where I want to support you I'm doing I would love to support you. But guess what, you aren't doing your part. If you weren't doing your part, then it's hard for somebody support you. And I think that I was able to build a support system and get the support that I did get, because I was working my ass off, I was doing a lot of work myself not sitting around saying, hey, help me, help me help me. I was doing what I needed to do. And so that's our responsibility is to put to put in the work, and then to recognize where the support is. So back to your question about resiliency. Like, I mean, the short answer is the book definition, essentially, is the ability to bounce back from challenges from challenging times. Because, and that's true. I don't care who we are. And that's why I like, you know, my brand. So what it's saying, So what when life is tough, and life is unfair, or, or, or you mess up, you make bad choices. But can you bounce back from that? And so that's my definite definition of resilience is understanding when I could have done something different, and I didn't, but I can get I can make another decision going forward. Or this really messed up thing, unfair thing happened in my life. But how do I move forward? How do I do something different? How do I still create success out of it, and for me, too, the most fun thing is, is taking that very thing, that very hard thing, that unfair thing, that bad thing or that mistake, and using that thing in and of itself to create something beautiful from it. And, and not just beautiful, but beautiful, because it's helping you. And more importantly, it's helping other people. And so that has been my resilience, journey. My resilience, life is like, Hey, I get it. That's, you know, and when people say stuff to me and messed up things happen to them, I say, so what? And sometimes that's hard to hear, you know?

Because sometimes we want people to say, Oh, this is so terrible, I feel sorry for you. And I can say that. But then the next thing I'm going to say is okay, so what now what we're gonna do, now, what are we gonna do? How are we gonna move forward from it, because oh, we only consider this. Or we can sit in this and we can cry. And we can just, you know, hug each other and hold each other all day and next week and next year. And and guess what, we can still be sitting here hugging each other crying the next year, in the next year, or we can allow ourselves sometimes agree that thing? And then like, Okay, how are we moving forward from it? And so that's what resilience is. For me. It's just recognizing, how do you move forward and focusing more on the solution in the problem acknowledging the problem, but focusing on a solution? Hmm.

Acknowledging the problem, but focusing on the solution. I like that summer. I like that. And I really appreciate you pushing back on what I said, because I don't have your experience. Right. So I'm glad that you talked to me and clarify what I said about about the what support looks like, what your support looked like, in particular. So I appreciate you. clarifying that was important. And I'm really glad that you did that.

I appreciate that. I just, and I had to do this simply because like I said, I think a lot of people don't move forward or not able to move forwards i Well, I didn't have the support she had, you know, or comparing themselves to any other situation. It's not just about teen pregnancy is just period, right? I don't have the support. So well, I can't do what she did. And I'm like, No, we got to look at it differently. We all have different different support, and everything is about perception to right. So for people to even perceive their own lives in their own situations in a different way. So that they can move forward. Absolutely.

Yeah. It goes back to reminding, it reminds me of PC, your story that you told us earlier, where you know, your your you just mentioned that the support isn't necessarily always going to come from exactly where you want it to come from. And that doesn't mean it's not around. And I bet you know, that volunteer coordinator that you were telling me about that your mom's like, you didn't expect her to show up for you on a monthly basis on a on an annual basis. Right. And you know, it's funny sometimes when, when someone like that shows up, we almost write them off or it's like, Hey, you just feel bad for me. So you sent me a car, but it was that commitment. You know, I defined commitment is patience plus persistence. And that's really what this woman was for you. Right? And she was persistent in that every month you go and catch one of these cards, right? But she was also patient. She wasn't necessarily coming in and trying to do everything for you. And it was a beautiful commitment to being a support system for you that she displayed now. And I think there's so often in our lives, we don't acknowledge our cheerleaders, because our cheerleaders aren't the exact people that we wanted them to be. And, you know, I thought about this a long time when I was when I was young even and just have this applies to a whole bunch of different areas of our life. There were there were moments when I was younger, where I really wanted to date people and and I was like, I just want to make out with somebody, right? Like I was young kid, you're saying, I didn't really have any game back in the day. My smoothness came too late. But right on time, yeah, I guess so. Maybe? It did, cuz I landed a woman of my dreams. So we go. But But still, but still it is. is, you know, but I still can remember younger just being like, nobody likes me knowing everything. So I'm attractive. No one is, and it's not. It wasn't that no one did. It was just that the few people that I really wanted to see me didn't, or other people that I never let them. I never acknowledged them, and therefore also never allowed myself to feel attractive, because it was this one person that didn't find me attractive. So therefore, it wasn't attractive, right? It's similar to what you're saying where it's a well, I'm not getting support from this one person. So therefore being I'm not getting support. So I think that was a really instrumental thing that you shared there. And yeah, that was That was beautiful. And, you know, something else that you touched on with that, I'm glad you brought up I knew I knew we would get here and I'm excited that we are there is that you have this mantra of so what I'm having you tell people what's so what means. And But initially, when you hear, okay, I'm a resiliency speaker, and I tell people, so what? It sounds a little cold, right? But I love how the way you just described it. It's not that there's an absence of empathy. There isn't an absence of listening, there isn't an absence of dealing with grief. It's just that at some point in time, we have to get to a place where we acknowledge the problem, but work towards the solution. Like you said, I mixed up your words a little bit there. No, got it. And so is tell us a little bit about what so what means

Yeah, I'll tell you how I got there first, like. So, again, I never had any desire to be a speaker, or an entrepreneur at all. But after I wrote the book, and people started reading it, people started asking me to speak and so then I started sneaking out on my lunch at work. And I was gone, like two hours, three hours at a school. And then after work, and people would ask me to speak so I started doing it. And I'm like, What is this maybe this is a business or brand. I live I'm marketer? All my career has been in marketing. And so I'm like, what, what, what is this and I never will forget. I went to sleep one night and I woke up in the middle of the night and like a here was so what? So what? So what I like now I'm a big fan of Oprah. I'm a big opera fan. I've had a chance to go to Harpo studios. When I did Oprah's Favorite Things when I when I worked at FedEx, FedEx does you know the delivery for Oprah everything. I don't know if you remember Oprah's Favorite Things. But I had a chance to work with Adam Glassman who was the editor of old magazine and then I went to Harpo studios in Chicago and so I got to do a lot with that which was really really cool everything except meet her cuz she wasn't there that day. All right. But you know how it was Harpo Studios, which is her name backwards right? And so I love how she did that and so when I woke up with so what in my mind was like everything that I'm doing is so personal to me. I was like my name is in it but so yeah, um, but it was thinking back to all the times people had said things to me about what they wanted to do and why they couldn't or you know all this self pity and feeling sorry for themselves and and that's what I would say in my mind and not always to them, but I would kind of say to them even if not in those words, it's like okay, like I'm tired of hearing all the reasons why you can't like so what you know your dad wasn't there so well your parents are on drugs or so what you weren't rich or so what you don't have the name brand clothes or so what like how you how are you going to do it if this is what you want to do? So that's why the little words in there so now what so it was the big so what like the first thing you kind of got to get jolted in your spirit is so what like stop talking about that? thing and focus more on how you're going to get past it. So that's how it came to be. And then that's what it means is, you know, it doesn't mean you don't care. It simply means you care more about the solution than you do the problem. And, and just saying, so what is taking away the power, from the problem from the challenge from the trauma even is, you know, taking away their power and putting the power back in your hands to do something about it. And that's one thing that James, a big pet peeve of mine is helplessness. And, and in the research of what I've been doing, since I've started speaking, learn the term learned helplessness. And so what combat says so long learned helplessness is just a feeling and a thought in your mind, you can't do anything about the situation. Like all these things happen in your life, or you're in this particular situation is like nothing you can do about it. And the reality is, in most situations in our life, we can do something about it, if you don't like it, you can probably do something, whether that's getting counseling, or is actually taking a step like go to school, or, you know, whatever. In any situation. I feel like in almost every situation, there's something you can do about it. But it starts with first saying, so it. So stop feeling sorry for yourself. So it sounds like you can pity somebody into a grave.

Yeah, yeah. And, and I think we know people that are in that cycle, right there, we know people that are in that cycle of, you know, just feeling bad for themselves, or focus way more on the problem and the things that they can't control around it, as opposed to the things they can control, right, because I can list a whole bunch of things that I can't control, and I can get real frustrated about it. But at the end of the day, I'm still not gonna be able to do anything about it. So what focusing on what we can control is, is also important, and it takes it takes a minute to differentiate between those two, right? It's not just something that we immediately that we immediately jump into.

Well, you know, I'm glad you even said that, because, again, I told you, I'm a woman of faith, and this isn't this actually comes from alcohol, Alcoholics Anonymous is the Serenity Prayer. And, but for me, it's a faith thing, too, is, you know, God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I can't change. Right. So that's first thing so what my mother so you know, I like to give the example of my I didn't know my father, because so many young people I work with, that's their, that's their sad reality. Or I didn't have my father in my life. So what? Serenity Prayer equivalent, except it can't change it, right. But continue with the Serenity Prayer, but the courage to change the things I can, this is so now what do something about it, if you can do something about it, then do something about it. And then the last part is the wisdom to know the difference, which is what you say, sometimes it's hard to differentiate. But in most cases, there is something you can do about it. So in the fact that you don't know your father, that's the so what the so now what is now you can embrace the people, the me and maybe who are trying to be a father figure to you. Or now you can when you have the opportunity like James now, to be a father, you can say, I'm going to be the best father that I can be. So there are still things that you can do in almost any situation. Instead of feeling sorry for yourself and wallowing in the in the pity, or even accepting all the pity from other people just like okay, whatever, no matter how bad the situation is, it's probably something you can do. And again, that something might just be talking to somebody or getting counseling or getting advice. And in the situation where you just say, it's hard to know the difference, then, maybe you don't rely on your own mind. Maybe you talk to somebody else to help for them to help you understand the difference. What do you think about this situation? Is what do you think I could do? Or what would you do in this situation? And I was like, oh, okay, that's something I can do.

Novel. Yeah.

Yeah. All of us are in this if given a situation. I mean, even me, sometimes I can get in a situation where I'm feeling sorry for myself, I'm feeling bad and I'm feeling like there's nothing I can do. But then I have to, you know, eat my own medicine. Take my own medicine and like, okay, yes, I can do something about this. And I'm not you know, I believe we do have to grieve and feel bad and because I'm not That person is just like, suck it up, suck it up, I'm not that person. Well, I am that person. But after, after you accept it and grieve and understand, you know, feel the heart, feel it, feel it, need to feel it. But the problem comes with us when we feel it too long. And we decide to live there.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. That was, you know, right here at the end, some are all ones that he had taken us to church literally, literally. And I love it. I mean, that was so that was so well said and, and I'm grateful for the way that you put that I'm also appreciative of the action oriented nature of what you're going through, but also the fact that empathy is an absent from it, right? Like you are, you're allowed to feel sad for yourself a little bit, you're allowed to be upset that and you're allowed to dwell for a minute, but at some point in time, you got to keep pushing, right there is life to be lived. There are more years ahead of us there are days, hours, minutes that we can capitalize on. And so how are we going keep pushing you know, how are we going to take the power back like you said earlier? How are we going to grab the pen to our own story and write what we want to write and I love that summer. Thank you so much for coming and hanging out with us talking us about your story of of beautiful resilience and of triumph now but not not without its stories in the middle there and not without its slips and its struggles. For sure. I appreciate you a lot summer I learned a lot from you today and with you.

Thank you James. It was such a pleasure having me in the diner

summer let people know how can they stay in touch with you?

The best way is to go to my website which is Summer was calm my name is Summer Owens calm and all my social media links are there I've love YouTube I have lots of videos on YouTube. Again focus on resilience and leadership where I have messages there my soul want success stories, the interviews that I do with people but I'm also on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And you know what I'm even trying to dabble in Tik Tok. Oh no to my website and you can connect with me everywhere there. Summerlin calm

summer. Thank you so much for kicking it in the diner with me, friend. It's so great spending this time with you.

My pleasure. Thanks so much, James. Good catching up with you.

Great catching up with you. Y'all. That was my time with the one and only summer all winds Wow, what a story my friends. What a story. And I just love hearing her talk about resilience in that way. Because a lot of us just get stuck and stay stuck. But at some point in time, it is a choice to stay stuck. And we have to recognize that you know, I'm someone who doesn't always recognize when those who love me are trying to love me because I'm trying I'm more interested in this one person loving me or this other person helping me. Now I think he just needs the way I'm going to get out of this mess is by doing this one thing but that one thing that keeps getting forwarded now and and instead of seeing the options. And so I love the way that summer Owens talks about resilience and I love hearing her story too. What a powerful story. Shout out to the Clemson Tigers, the real tigers. And now that she can't hear me I'm allowed to say that I'm just kidding. Shout out the Memphis Tigers as well love them down there. And thank you so much for kicking it with summer night today. So the next time we get to hang out friends do me a favor. keep punching small talk in the face by asking better questions. You all take care.