Falling In Love With Being Black with Rick Daniels - Encore

Welcome to diner talks with James, slide into the booth and let's have conversations. We never want to end with friends, we never want to leave over food we probably shouldn't be.

My friends, we are in a important time in history. And so I am excited. I'm excited that you are here to be with me to learn, to talk, to ask and to seek. And so I am pumped that you are here. Tonight on the show is my man, Rick Daniels. I'm gonna bring him out in just a little bit. And I'm super excited for you all to talk with him. He is He is actively chasing PhD right now. And as a higher ed, professional, incredible public speaker, and just a great man and a dear friend of eating a lot of great meals at his house while his kids clung on to me. So, so yeah, so I love it. But, alas, let's get this show kicked off the way we always do with a top three chap three, and let me know where you're from. Let me know where you're calling in from as well put that in the comments. So I know so I can shout you out. So top three, top three a little bit different this year, I didn't take your recommendations or this year, but this year, I mean, this week, I just came up my own thing. So top three, top three, let's go number one, top three books, I will read so that I can be better. Top three were books that I will read so that I can be better. First off number one is a classic book if you are just entering the journey if you are just entering the conversation that's been happening for a while about race relations and about your own identity and whatnot. There's a really popular book that I've never read and I need to read. It's literally called Why do all the black people sit together in the cafeteria? It's by a Dr. Beverly Daniel Tatum. And and so these are books that I will read. Thank you, Scott, that I will read. These are not books that I have read their books that I need to read. I'm excited to read. So first off, why do all the black people sit together in the cafeteria number two, is white fragility. white fragility. It is by Robyn D'Angelo. It's by Robyn D'Angelo. Brittany, you have read that book. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. I appreciate it. So white fragility by by Robyn D'Angelo is a book that is on my now must read list. And last but not least, not least is white like me. It's by a gentleman by the name of Tim Wise I want to hear some different perspectives. And so So Tim Wise wrote a book I've heard that I've got to hear him speak. He's a powerful speaker now but I'm excited to read his book white like me so again, those three books that I will now read I encourage you to as well if you have not our wide all the black people sit together in the cafeteria, white fragility, and white like me, I love it. Dan faille wants to do some accountability reading I'm into that brother. Let's buy these books from some black owned bookstores. Let's go I got a list happy to send it to you if you'd like Next Up Next up the top three recent albums by black people that you should listen to the top three recent albums by black people that you should listen to given our times right now particularly number one I'm a huge fan of anything by Killer Mike and Run the Jewels Run The Jewels is putting been putting out some really powerful work lately. They just came out with Run The Jewels for rtj for and incredible hip hop. With some really candid storytelling. I'm sure you've seen Killer Mike, do a number of things on a number of things on TV he's been interviewed a number of times is an outrageous speaker. There's part of me that wishes he would change his name. But that's only because I know that white fragility is real and not everybody's ready to talk to somebody named Killer Mike. But, but I also respect the hell out of him for that being his name. I just think that his message is powerful. And if you're immediately turned off by him, that's a shame because he's got really cool things to say next. Beyonce is lemonade in particular, in particular, Beyonce is lemonade. I would encourage you to watch the live performance of it is beautiful, black art at its finest and I cannot recommend it enough. It is powerful. Give me a drumline any day. But more importantly give me lyrics that make me think that make me think about who I am and the experiences of other people any day. Beyonce is lemonade. And last but not least as Kendrick Lamar has To Pimp A Butterfly, Kendrick Lamar is To Pimp A Butterfly. It's an outrageous album, outrageous album that definitely illuminated a lot of things for me, I think it will for you. If you don't like hip hop, I encourage you to listen to it anyway. Because the words are what matter. The words are what matter and so make sure that you check some of those out they're really powerful. And friends. Those are recent albums like those are all came out within the last four, four years, maybe something like that four or five years. Now I'm not entirely sure when to pivot butterfly came out maybe six years ago, but either way, we could go all the way back. We could go all the way back to important artists, your Marvin Gaye, Richie Havens, Nina Simone, right. And we can listen to songs about strange fruit and understand what exactly she was talking about. And, and so there's a lot of incredible artists that have been delivering messages to us that we've been bobbing our heads to, and turn it up in our cars, but we haven't necessarily been paying attention to the lyrics. And I say we, during this entire conversation, because that is also something that I know I do. I love hip hop's energy. I don't always pay attention to the lyrics. And so I mean, top three, top three, that's two, last one, top three, top three, the top three worst responses. The top three worst responses, you can say to the protests, here we go. Number three, is I feel bad for target.

I feel but I just feel bad for target. Targets gonna be Alright y'all, they will be just fine trust and believe. trust and believe that next, the top three next, the next worst thing you can say is I support good cops. I support good cops. Here's the thing, friends. I also support good cops. Okay, I support good people doing the right thing. That's what I support. Right? And so a lot of people who say I support good cops, let us be careful at how we are defining Good cop, because I have a lot of great cops in my family that did the right thing time and time again, as far as I know, because those are the stories that have been passed on to me. I don't know if I've heard them all. But what I would say is that a good cop, a good cop, yes, ideally, is not racist, a good cop has been through some sort of social justice training has been through a repeated awareness training so they can own who they are. So they know how they can show up into different spaces. A good cop is also someone who stops their brother or sister on the force from going too far. And that is something that I don't think we currently train cops on. And so there's a lot of really powerful stuff. I know, the NAACP has been really working on a lot of that kind of stuff and making sure that we are getting these police records to be more public so that we know who's got complaints against them. And who doesn't. There's a really powerful object. directions at the end, and NAACP is trying to move in. So those are my top, top two. And the third one, the worst thing that you can say, to respond to the protest is all lives matter. All as it let's get this out on the table right now. You're right. All lives do matter. Congratulations. We're all beautiful snowflakes in this world in the snow globe of happiness. And that's lovely. Right? That is lovely. But the fact of the matter is the analogy that's been going around that I love, the analogy that I love that's going around as if one house is on fire on the block. You don't the fire trucks don't show up to every house on the block and douse them all with water. My friends. Okay, so let us thinking about what we mean when we say all lives matter, it is insensitive, and appropriate. And it is not. It is just it's just a little bit tone deaf right now you've got to see a little bit bigger and a little bit deeper. My friends. Those are tonight's top three, top three. I'm curious, have you read any books? Have you read any books that you have really loved? If so, I'd love to hear some of your book recommendations. If there is an artist or an album that sticks out to you that's like, Hey, I think people should listen to this album because it made me think a little bit I encourage you please put that in the comments put that in the show notes put that let me know in the in a review or something like that. What are some ideas that you have that other people can do right now to continue to learn? Put them in the comments, please, I'd love to hear them. Just because I think it'd be really powerful, be really powerful. So thank you, my friends. I appreciate you tuning in for tonight's top three, top three. Let's get in to the tonight's episode. My guest tonight is the one and only Rick Daniels. Rick and I have known each other for a number of years, approximately 10 Actually, I believe he may correct me on that around 10. Nine or 10 years is how long we have known each other we met each other on a bus. And we're gonna get into that story in a minute. But he is an incredible individual a proud brother of alpha Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Incorporated. He is a ice cold to the core. He is indeed an incredible lyricist when it comes to being on stage the way that it makes people think when it makes people's dream but most importantly in my eyes, and the thing that I respect the most about him is the way that he parents and the way that he parents, his children with his incredible wife Erica, and we're going to talk about Tonight, y'all, please do me a favor. start clapping out right now do a slow clap at home for the one and only Rick Daniels. Here we go, Rick come through. What's good man?

What's happening? My brothers. That was a that was an amazing introduction, man. Thank you so much.

Absolutely, absolutely. I don't read BIOS anymore, man coming straight from the heart. You're not.

But you know, we didn't been in the game for so long together. We know each other's by already, you know. So it's so it's all good man. But But thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. And hello to everybody who's who's chained in?

Exactly, exactly. Rick, I'm so excited that we're together. The story is that we met on a bus man. And we met at a bus and I love the way you talk about this man. We met at a bus because we were both going somewhere. Tell Tell. Tell the people more about that.

So James and I, I used to be assigned to an agency called campus feet, which I'm not sure you know where they are in the marketplace now. But at the time, they were the number one agency for campus speakers. And it was like for speakers who were trying to get into the game at the time. It was like signing the deal. You know, it was like, you know, sign up to the hottest label at the time. And we were supposed to fly down to Denver for a training. And I flew down to Denver, and when I got off the plane, I got onto the shuttle bus to the hotel. And I look across, you know, everybody gets on the shuttle bus and I'm not really paying attention. And I look up and I see this guy on with purple socks. I think Yeah.

I got a brand. I got a brand,

ya know. So I don't exactly remember what happened. But I think you had on something that I do to fight data as well. And, you know, I couldn't help it. I'm like, yo, I Oh, and I think we just made a connection from that point. And I kind of looked at you. And you looked at me, it was like, What are you looking at me like, because I'm white. And we just hit it off from there. And the reason why I feel like the rest, as they say is history. And the reason why I feel like that's so special is because I say that we met, the only reason we met is because we were heading somewhere. We were going somewhere, you know, we didn't meet you know, in middle school and become friends on the playground. We didn't bump into each other in a coffee line and end up having a good conversation that lasted, you know, whatever how many years, the only reason we got together that day, is because you and I were headed, you know, somewhere trying to take this thing to the next level. And so I'm grateful for you, I appreciate you, you're my brother. You know, I love you very much. And, you know, you having some good meals at the crib. You know, and I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful that you've that my kids know you and my family knows you. And, you know I said I said a long time ago when our careers were in the same area but sort of headed in a different direction. You know, it Our friendship is stronger than an agency is stronger than a than a career choice. It's stronger than than anything. You know, the bond that we have are like Sequoia roots. You know, Santa sequoia tree has roots that connect all the sequoia trees are connected to each other through their roots, no matter where they are. And I feel like no matter where you and I go are secure, you are always connected. So I'm grateful to be here and I truly appreciate the opportunity to speak to the people bro. So thank you.

Yeah, absolutely man, I bought a beautiful analogy with the sequoias here's why I also love that it's because the boys are the biggest baddest trees out there man and that's we try to be that as well. And yeah, but yeah, but yeah, absolutely. I love it Erica just chimed in and she said them yams though.

Yeah, I don't get him yams up that macaroni and cheese. Thank you smack your mama. It was so only a few people know that is making smacking. Thank you Chairman.

Yeah, they were they were stupid. Good. Here's the thing. I came to the house. I came to the house and I'll be honest with you, man, I don't I've never had games that I liked before. No offense to my aunt Fern if she's listening but but I don't I don't know. I don't know what your your partner put in there. But they were they were incredible. And I got thirds I believe Not even seconds I went for 30 So yeah, but but here's the thing that I love brother is coming to your house. Coming to your house Rick is family. It is immediately family the way that your kids your kids immediately embraced me and whether that's because you know you read them my bio before I walked in or or whatever whatever it was but like your kids immediately were, you know, very warm hugging me. He was showing me things like you got to come see the basement and bring me down and and the environment that you and your wife have created at the home is One that I hope to be able to emulate is a father one day. It is incredibly shooting. I know your last name is Daniels. I know you all refer to yourselves as a tribe called Daniel's his Tribe Called Quest reference. And yeah, and so, yeah, I love it, man. I love it when you think oh, there you go. We got the tattoos that I love it. I love it. So, so So tell me ma'am. In your in general, in general, just just bit we'll dive we'll dive into what's going on today. And just in just a second, let's let's let's do a beach entry. In general, when it comes to parenting, what is it? What is the philosophy that you have in your home that you and Erica, you know, have talked about and be like, This is what we believe and how we believe we should raise our kids and, and whatnot? What kind of conversations do you all have is as a family as a team unit.

Um, first of all, I appreciate you asking me that. I appreciate those observations as well. I didn't read my kids your bio, I just told him that you can't, I can't wait for you to meet Uncle James. I have to say that I am, I think, from my wife. I really do, man. And I try not to talk about it too much, because I get emotional, but she's my air. You know, I say often that she is Caretta. She's Betty. She is Michelle. She's all you know, she's every single one of them. And, and I am grateful for the woman that she is and the manner in which she mothers, our kids and the wife that she used to me. I really, um, I think that I credit, I credit. You know, our we try to have a spiritual presence in our house, you know, at all times. One of the things that by I grew up a pastor's kid, and Piquet's in the house, in the House stand up, my parents would always we would always gather for prayer. Before school, you know, anytime that we left the house, particularly for school, we would gather for prayer and it wouldn't, you know, be very long, but it was just being a short prayer where we gathered together, everybody took a day and everybody said a prayer. And that's something that I've taken with me as a matter of fact, I believe you you pray with us, you know, before we left out for school, one particular day. And, you know, for me, it's all about understanding, you know, who God is and our lives. And you know, how we are blessed. But also, we are unapologetically black in my house, you know, and we raise our kids to be proud of their blackness, we raised our kids to understand the realities of this world. And we also raised them to understand the unique and complex contributions that we have made, and continue to make to this world. And how we should, should have love for everyone and understand the difference in different struggles that everyone endures, but that it's okay to be proud of your blackness. And I think that, that provides a certain level of love in our house, that we, that we live on, we live on love, you know, I'm saying we thrive on love. And, you know, both of us, my wife, and I, you know, we, we don't play with our kids, you know, we don't play in this house, you know, there are there there are There is structure. But at the same time, we love our kids enough to talk with them and walk with them and and understand that they are individuals and human beings. And not just our kids, our children, but they're individuals. And we also believe in legacy, you know, everything we do is, is to establish a legacy. So that their generations three and four generations down, you know, will be able to see the fruits of our labor. So I think all of that, you know, makes us to, to the point where, you know, we we raised them in such a way to where they love the Lord. They love themselves, and they understand the power of love. And one central space. Yeah.

Incredible man. And now I know you say you don't play with your kids, but I also know that you take your son to school on the basketball court every once in a while.

You play school at school now,

I don't want to bring that up. I was there.

He's a bad boy. I'm gonna give him all the credit in the world. I think I still got a little muscle on him so I can take it to the whole on him. But I told him you know, I know I'm not raising you to be a ballplayer I'm raising to be a man. I want you to learn about the game of life through the game of basketball. But I also want you to understand that I'm not racing to go to school, go to the league, or play for anybody seen. I tell them all the time I'd rather you own a team and just be on a team. Okay, I read up to own I

want to team instead of just being on a team. Yep.

Okay. See because listen, when you to owner, you can break your leg. You can share your ACL and come to work tomorrow. Yeah, he's telling you a play, you can't do that. You tear your ACL and your whole career might be over. But when you own the team, you can you can live your way to work and still own the team. And so I've always tried to help them to understand the power of his mind, and how that extends on the basketball court, but also beyond the basketball court as well. But I'm still working on. But he's, he's he's incrementally better at this point, which is great. That's I've always told him, I wanted you to be a better man to be at every stage of life. So when I when you're 16, I want you to be a better 16 year old and I was, I want you to think better than I did. I want you to get better grades. And I did. When you're 34. Like I am, I want you to be a better 34 year old and I was at the time. I want him to go further than ideas in every aspect of life.

Yeah. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I know, my dad, my dad said similar things to me about the game of golf is he didn't he never wanted me to beat him. But he was excited when I did. For sure. Yeah, I'm in now. And I used to beat him for a long time. And then I stopped playing as much and now he beats me, but I want to talk about it. So my dad, my dad's out here about to be about to be shooting his age on the golf course. It's incredible. Exactly, exactly. So a poet, the poet and the golfer and a great father. So I love what you were saying about the way and we talked about legacy we talked about, you'd be proud of your blackness, but be proud of your blackness and show love to everyone, right? Like these things are not mutually exclusive ideas. And I think that is beautiful. The way that you impart that into your children. I'm curious for you. Fast forwarding to a to today. I would be curious to hear like went and a little bit of the past as well, when you were coming up? Do you remember the lessons that your parents taught you about being black? And? And has has the language shifted to how you now talk about your children about being black? I'd be curious to hear that. Is there a shift? Is it similar? Speak on that for a little bit?

That's a good, that's a great question. I remember an overwhelming sense of pride. Growing up, I credit that mostly to, to both my parents, but mostly to my father, Rick Daniels, who was always incredibly proud. And, you know, grew up he was born in the 50s. So of course, he grew up in a time where, you know, the collective black consciousness was expanding, you know, such a great deal to all forms. And I can remember specifically, you know, I asked this question, in a speech once, I've never really set out, you know, set in any other forum, but that there's a movie out there called brown sugar, which is a love story that's centered around hip hop, and the movie opens up with a question. And the one of the leading characters, not Layton, whose name is Syd Shaw. She's a journalist. And every time she interviews someone, she asked, When did you fall in love with hip hop? And so the question that I asked many black folks out there is when did you fall in love with your blackness? When did you fall in love with who you are? Malcolm X, had a speech called, Who taught you to hate yourself. And his entire premise was, the hate that we have in our, the hate that we have for ourselves is as a learned behavior. So who taught you to hate yourself? Who taught you to hate your own kind? And I kind of tried to flip that question and ask, When did you fall in love with your blackness? When did you fall in love with yourself? When did you fall in love with, with what your blackness means? And I can remember the moment that I fell in love with my blackness, and that was during the Million Man March, my dad was always we grew up in a very pro black household, that that embrace the beauty of blackness. But on the Million Man March, my father wanted to go to the March but he was a pastor. So he decided to stay in the walkie and have a day of prayer was a day of atonement. And I can remember coming down to the church, to, to have prayer with with the other with the other members, particularly to get a lot of a lot of men in the church at the time. And when I was praying next to my band, we were all in our knees in a circle praying, and he was holding my hands so tight. I never forget the grip he had on my hand at that time. And that was the moment I fell in love with my blackness. That was a moment I knew that there was a purpose to this. That was the moment I knew, even at 10 years old, that there was more to this than just culture. And from that, from that point, I began to really you know, understand the power of the power of, you know what it means to be To be in love with myself. And I think that that upbringing really, really helped to shape who I am, it helped to shape my identity. And then later on, it helped me to understand how how powerful it is to love yourself, and also love others. You know, a lot of times, people don't understand that we are capable black people are capable of loving ourselves and loving everybody else. Just to be pro black isn't to be anti white, or anti anything else I can I'm capable of loving me and loving you. And that's why the response to our lives matter response shouldn't be a rebuttal to Black Lives Matter. It should be an extension to Black Lives Matter. But it should be sequential Black Lives Matter. We have to realize and Dr. King said this in many ways, we have to realize in order for us to realize the true promises of America, we have to give the black race well, we've deprived it for so many years. And so, to to everyone out there who who strongly believes in all lives matter of principle, as you mentioned before, it's okay to believe that but not as a counterpoint to Black Lives Matter to an extension to Black Lives Matter. And understanding. That is okay for me to love my blackness and love you. I am physically emotionally and spiritually capable of loving myself.

Turns out we're pretty complex beings. Yeah, right.

I can walk and chew gum. Yeah, right? Yes, I'm saying I'm physically capable of loving myself and loving you at the same time. But in order for me to love you, I don't have to compromise the humanity of my people. Right? I don't have to say it's okay for a person to get choked out on television or in order for me to love you. I can say that it's okay for that. I can say that. It's not okay for that to happen. And that we should seek justice for those and still love everyone else at the same time. And I think that's what my upbringing. upbringing taught me.

Yeah. That is powerful. Your, your, the story about your father, I've never heard that before. And the grip that that he had and that you'll never you'll never forget the intensity of that grip. That is that is so powerful. And I'm not I got a little welled up. I'm glad you I'm glad you moved on from that. Because if you kept going deeper would have gotten ugly over here. And I'm just not ready to cry yet. I haven't cried enough. But But still, but still that that's such a powerful moment of When did you when did you fall in love with your blackness? So your children? Your children are? Your children are Erika Erika put it in here? Some of your children are 14, nine, seven and five? Yeah. So how old? How old were how old were you? At? You know when you're when that happened? When you're how old you say you were? I was 10. You were 10. Okay, so in your children's journeys right now and to falling in love with their blackness, as you mentioned, you and you and Erica talk a lot about it right? Where do you think your children are? And it's got to be interesting to watch them each influence each other. Now while you also influence them and how they start to fall in love with their with their blackness, especially to the horrific counterpoints of media and things like that. We'll talk a little bit about that. I would just be curious to hear like, are you watching them each become more proud of their blackness at different rates at different times? Is that Is that something that happens? Is 10 a typical time where that happens? Yeah. Well, I

think that's a great question. I think that there are, there's a, there's a moment where you fall in love with your blackness. But then there are continuous moments over the years where you can, where you continue to fall deeper in love, and become more and more conscious and awake. For me. I think the second stage happened when I was in college, for my children. I talk about my oldest son with my son, who's my oldest and my oldest daughter, Madison. I think the other two are still developing. But I'm going to talk about those two specifically. Now. Christian is a he's an incredible, young man. He's a he's incredibly intelligent, he's motivated, he's smart. You go through your own little 14 year old stuff with him. But for the most part, he is a very strong minded strong, we'll young man, very competitive as well. And it wasn't until this this his past birthday, that I realized how woke he really was, and how much he's been absorbing, you know, all of the different things that we've tried to walk him through, you know, over the years, so each year, Christian and I do a goal setting exercise. And so you know how you have your general port performance reviews on your job, me and Christian do sort of a performance review at A year on his birthday. So some around sometime in the month of August, maybe not on his birthday.

Cake, right, like, right. Right, right before you like, hang on, I gotta get your review. We'll see how big of a slice of cake you get miss. Yeah, yeah. Keep going, I

always take them out. I always take him out. And we have a conversation and we go over his goals from the previous year, and then talk about the goals that he'd like to see happen and the action steps he needs to take for the year before. And so the year coming. And so always ask him, What do you want out of year 14? This is your 14, this is the 14th year of your life. What do you want out of this year? What do you want to see happen? And this year, our conversation was a lot more expanded, it was much deeper, because there's something about that year 14, immaterial was cured at 14 Hmm. You know, I'm saying yeah, so um, it's one thing to talk to your kid about goal setting when he's eight, and nine. But when he's 14, he's starting to see the world differently. And the world is starting to respond to him differently. He's no longer a cute little baby boy. Now he's a physical threat. He's taller, he's bigger. You know, you got to hear he's a he's a bigger physical threat now. And so I tried to have very conscious conversations with him. And I asked him this year, I had a number of questions, a number of subjects to talk about with him this year. And I asked him, What does it mean to be black to you? And his answers, which I won't go into, because I feel like they were really personal. But his answers just blew me away. And it helped me to understand that he has been listening. He has been taking things in, and he still has a lot to learn and a long way to go. But there was a certain pride there that I didn't know was as deep as it was. And it was really emotional for me because it was like, yeah, yeah, like, I think he's starting to get it a little bit. And so I'm always interested in what he has to say, because I think he has great opinions. And this this summer during or this time, during quarantine, we started the Father Son movie night series, I wanted him to watch all of the movies that had an impact on me growing up so we started off where he got game. And the next is next is a you know, he loves to play ball. So he you know, I we had an in depth discussion about that afterwards, right? You know, in a relationship with his father and all those different things that took place. Next is Boys in the Hood, Malcolm X 13th documentary above the room, you know, I'm saying the wood you know, these are classic color purple. These are classic black films that shaped my identity that I want him to at least see. Even if he doesn't like even if they don't become his favorite movies. At least you can say you saw it because though, I do believe in a black card. Have you ever seen Color Purple, I need to see that car. I need to see that car, bro. You see Boys in the Hood, I need to see that car. So there's a part of me that's like training him to understand the power of the of his blackness within these fields, but also because of the mini lessons that exist. So you know, I I'm very proud of him and very proud of who he's becoming and the young man that he is. But also, you know, him developing an understanding. My oldest daughter Madison is real world. She's almost a little too woke to be nine. Watching you because she's a real reason to fish young woman. But I can remember one particular time. I was watching the documentary 13 by Ava DuVernay, and they were showing and Friday. Okay, I see Raven. Oh, here we go. So I was showing the first Friday. And I can remember I was watching 13th By myself. And there was a scene during the civil rights movement where white people, not the police, but just general white citizens were assaulting a black man who was protesting, and he wasn't fighting back. And my old my daughter, Madison happened to walk into a room at this time. And she looked at the TV, and she just became disgusted. She was like, Oh, come on. What did he do? What did he do? Why are they doing that to him? Wait a minute, why isn't he fighting back? What's what's happening here. And so I had to pause the movie because she was really she was really fired up about this. And I had to pause the movie, and try to have a conversation with her as best as I could with a nine year old about racism, and the physicality of racism. And that's something that I feel like we shouldn't wait too long to teach our kids. We have found a way to teach our children about all of the horrific things that America all of the heroic things that America has done in the name of freedom. If we find a way to teach them about war, we found a way to teach them about

colonialism, we find a way to teach them about all of the great things about America, we find a way to spoon feed that to them. We need to spoon feed them about the horrific beings to the kids can't just grew up thinking that America has this wonderful place of freedom. And everything in America, Americans have done is a name of freedom. And it's this all of this thing. I always say that educationally. America has done a good job of teaching us about the heroic details of our history, but not the horrific details of our history. So we'll teach you about the Civil War. But we won't tell you it was about slavery. It was about upholding the institution of slavery, we'll teach you is about valor, and about, you know, preserving the the ideas of America. But what we won't tell you about the Declaration of Independence is that there was people were enslaved, over over 4 million people were enslaved at the time that that document was written. And so I think that if we really want to raise our children in the next generation, to be more active, to be more conscious to be more empathetic, we can't just teach them that all people are great. And all lives matter. We must teach them about the realities of the history of this nation. And we have to teach them that in the same way that we've taught them about all the other things. If we got to write children's books about slavery, we should write those. If we got the right shoes, books about colonialism, we need to write that because we need to figure out a way to teach them the history now, before they learn about it after it's too late. We are all too often exposed to our history after seeing a video like the one we saw last week. We really should be learning that Shooting School

accurate. Yes, I completely agree. And especially as I think about the way I was the way I was brought up and taught in my school. Now I grew up in a town that was incredibly white, impeccably white. Right, like I've said before, if you saw five black people walking together in my town, you thought it was a movement. And like you just like it just, it just wasn't it wasn't it right. Like that. And so. So it's also interesting, because, you know, the way the history books that I was taught with, I didn't realize only taught me a Section A section of the curriculum, right? They didn't teach a whole curriculum, like like me, you know, and, and most of the curriculum had white saviors, right, like, Thank God for Abraham Lincoln. Thank God for and you know, and a lot of white savior ism in it as well. And it's so interesting that that is a continuous story that I that I was taught yet. I wasn't talking about other major things that were happening, you know, within arm's reach of my hometown, right, the Ku Klux Klan, one of its biggest hubs was was on Long Island, New York, where I grew up. I didn't learn about that till my 20s. You know what I mean? Like, right, and I mean, you know, about the white

dress, 20 years? That's 20 years. Yep. You know, like, we have to put that into the context of time, into the context of time, that's 20 years 20 or 20, some odd, how are you? 28? You

said, your mid 20s? Yeah,

mid 20s. Let's just say 25. That's 25 years is a quarter of a century, before you realize what was right in your backyard. That's how racism works.

And it's crazy, because also on top of that, the you know, that's that's then 25 years of unlearning. I have to do. Yeah. If I choose to put the work in, right. And, and on my good days, I did on my bad days, I didn't and that's, you know, that is what it is. I'll own my own stuff here. But, but it is so it's, it's incredible, because, you know, I was taught these major Hallmark moments that happened in history, but I was taught about them like they were in the past. Right, like I went to school, born and raised in Long Island, New York, I went to school in the south. And and I was taught that the South is racist. And but I was never taught that the North is racist. And I went to the south and learned that the North is still racist. Also, you know what I mean? Like, North had figured it out, like thank God for the Civil War, we got to separate the racists and non racist now turns out that's not how that that happened. It's but I learned about the hidden ways that racism was happening, like, you know, the the cancelling of bus routes, and, you know, the white flight and the way that people are who's, who's getting loans, who's not getting loans, and you know, like the all that kind of stuff, right, exactly the way property taxes work and how those funds then fund the schools that are in those that are in those counties, towns, and no wonder schools have different qualities and you know, and stuff like that, like, those are things that I wasn't taught in the moment I was taught that in the racist south and Like I said, the South is clean. I'm saying racism everywhere. Let's make sure what what everybody's hearing right now. But it's so fascinating when I think about what I learned, or really what I didn't learn. Like there's a whole curriculum out there that people haven't even gotten the Cliff Notes version of they've gotten the the beautiful tip of the iceberg. And that's and that's about it. They have no interest in going on below the surface. Because what's below the surface is, is hard to see. And it's uncomfortable. And people don't like being uncomfortable.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

So yeah, it's it. So it's interesting, I guess. So let's let's stay on this topic for a second in a slightly different way. I'm white. I don't know if you noticed that yet. I'm sure. This is good lighting. But come on.

But so yeah, that's it. Historically Black fraternity Do you think he borrowed that shirt from somebody? So

you know, I noticed Man, y'all y'all got I always get respect for, for for the way that the they push through through the Civil Rights Movement. You know, the time in which I were founded. I know, you know, where do I go this fall on the divine nine, but the time in which I was founded. Y'all get respect for for being founded around the principles of civil rights? Yeah,

right around September 19 1963. So, so I have a white family. A lot of my a lot of the viewers right now probably identify as white. I would be curious. I had a conversation today, actually, with my nephews, and one of my nephews recently got on Instagram, he just turned 13. I think for his birthday present, they allowed him to get on Instagram. And so that's, that's, that's cheap. That was smart. But, but still. But still. It's interesting, because he kind of out of the blue on FaceTime today, after we were talking about riding bikes and playing baseball in the backyard. And his birthday just happened. How was that? What did he get? You know, he's like, how he's like, what's happening with the protests. And, and I was like, what was like, well, before, if I knew his parents were like, I can only see him and his brother on the screen. His brother's a little bit younger than him. I can only see them on the screen. And first of all, I love that he asked. But I also thought to myself, I don't know what you're being taught at home right now. Now, I love my brothers. I know, I know where my brothers fall, they are on the right side of history. But at this, but I don't know, what conversations they've had right now. You know what I mean, like, and so. So with that being said, as I flipped it back on him, I said, Well, you tell me, you know, what, do you know what happened? And and first off my one nephews a lot younger said he, he's like, I think a firefighter was was was killed. So I was like, alright, Aiden, I'm gonna cut you off brother. But it's much younger. And so I don't know, again, like we talked about, like, you know, awareness. Like I appreciate appreciate you're trying. And, but but then I asked my older nephew, and, and he said, he said, he's like cops, cops killed a black man in Minneapolis. And I said, You're right, the police did kill, they murdered a black man in Minneapolis. And so it was a powerful moment. And I said, you know, how did you learn about that? And you had conversation with your parents? And he said, Well, I saw it from your Instagram, Uncle James. And then I was like, oh, shoot, I've been posting some. I've been posting some language. Maybe I need to check what I'm posting. But, but more importantly, but more importantly, I loved that my nephew use that as a catalyst to ask his parents what's going on. And his parents showed up for that conversation, a really beautiful way. And a really powerful way and didn't beat around the bush didn't didn't diss Disney Land the conversation. So I'm curious to hear. I'd be curious to hear for you. And I don't even know if this is the right way to ask this. But but stick with me briefly to reframe the question. But what advice do you have the individuals that are talking to their children or have started the conversation with their children or continuing the conversation with their children? What advice do you have particularly for for white parents right now or parents? And the conversations that they could be having? Because you and I both know, that this is when those seeds get planted? Like, like it was shown to me, it was shown to me at 25 that I didn't see the whole picture. Right, like so. But like my nephew's having a conversation at 13 That's an incredible moment to start to be able to think about racism, what do I look like? What does that matter? Why was this wrong? You know, that's, that's 13 years of unlearning, as opposed to 25 or 28. And so yeah, I Be curious to hear your thoughts on that. And I guess suggestions that you have. And maybe they even could be based with the way that you talk to your children about some of that as well. I know it is different. But I don't I wonder if there are parallels?

Oh, you know, I don't know, um, I don't know what advice I would have for white parents. Because I've only known how to speak to my kids as a black man. And as a black parent. What I will say is this, you're doing yourself a disservice if you choose to hide this from them in any way, talking to your kids, about the realities of our racialized society. And my opinion, is just as important as teaching them about financial literacy is just as important as teaching them how to drive is just as important as teaching them how to bathe themselves, and clothe themselves. If you didn't teach your child how to be themselves, they would think, right. Like, they would think, if you didn't teach your children how to brush your teeth, they wouldn't brush them properly. I know because we allow our kids to brush their teeth on certain days. And it is reflective of how we teach them. And sometimes we got to go back and go behind them. And you know, I'm saying like, sometimes you can just tell some days, they do a really good job, some days, we have to be parents and go back and brush your teeth. Some days, it's like I'm brushing your teeth all week, I don't care if you're not. I'm brushing your teeth this week. I think this is not a direct correlation. But I think, you know, you can use that as an analogy for how we talk to our kids about societal issues. If you don't talk to them about it, then mentally, they will think mentally, they will reflect the fact that they've never been taught how to really deal with societal issues. When you see children who do not know how to be themselves, and who do not know how to who do not understand how, as I mentioned before, financial literacy, oftentimes, you know, it's because it's the way we've been taught. And I think that, or what we haven't been taught rather, and I think the same can be said, for how we you know, work through issues with society. It's because we haven't been taught or the way in which we've been taught. You mentioned before, this is where the seeds get planted. I would also answer that and say that this is also where seas can become uprooting, because a lot of times, children, you know, we know that children are born with these ideologies, they're learned behaviors. And a lot of times kids really don't know the difference. And they don't get the difference. And you may have children who sort of organically have an inclusive mindset, but then they're their parents or group that and say, Well, you know, black people really shouldn't be looting right now. And that's another seed that's planted. So so as you mentioned before, that it's not just the seed that's planted, but it's oftentimes What's up rooted in, in in re in in the seas are replanted after that. So I think it's important,

that idea that people are taught to hate, right, we're born Yes. Born hating, you're taught to hate. Absolutely. And the planting of hatred. Yes, I love that. And I

will say, I think I think people are taught to see a pig, I think people are taught to see the other hmm, we other eyes, our kids, which then manifests itself into Hey, I don't think a lot of kids are taught to hate. I don't think their parents literally plant the seeds of hate and say we need to hate these individuals. But what I think does happen is we decide to other eyes, the communities, and say that those are the other folks over there, who don't really deserve compassion, who don't really deserve us to care about them, turn the channel. That's how we other eyes individual experiences, which then turns into hate because we fear and hate what we don't understand. Now, conversely, of course, there are parents who do teach hate. So I'm not gonna act like that doesn't happen. There are parents who do teach hate, there are parents who do teach white supremacy who do seek to do teach superiority. from a gender perspective, there are parents who foster toxic masculinity and things of that nature. But I don't think that's true for every case. I think in some cases, we plant seeds of what we've always taught, been taught or believe. And that turns into hate. So what I would say to white parents, I think it starts with you, not your kids. Alive lot of times we're conditioned to believe that it starts with the kids. No, it starts with you, you know, what you've been taught, and you know where that other rising has come from. And so you mentioned in your top, top three different books that you can read. It's up to you to read those books, to gain the information to gain the knowledge to educate yourself, and then pass that and apply those tools on to your children. If you choose not to do that, then that's all you that's all you and I think that As parents, we can't shield our children from this, we have to, we have to have conversations with them. We have to engage with them. And think of all the ways think of the ways that you taught them about everything else. If you're a Christian, you teach your kids about Jesus before they know how to speak. Yeah, right. They know how to say Jesus, right? If you if you teach them about your religion, before they know about religion, you teach them about your occupation, before they know about your occupation, right? What do you what is your father do? What was your dad or your mom, your mom is a teacher, she doesn't know all the deep, intricate details about what it means to be a teacher, right? She knows that you teach. If you're a fighter firefighter, your kids don't know all the deep intricate dangers that you are faced with when you're fighting fires. But they know you're a fighter firefight, because you've taught them that you understand I'm saying, so we have to teach them about societal issues in the same way we teach them about everything else, we have to spoon feed them, and so they're ready to eat solid food. And when they're ready to eat solid food, you have to give them the proper food to eat so that they're not toxic, or they're not feeding mental toxins. And I don't have the blueprint for that I can't give you the step by step. But if you can teach your kids about everything else, you teach them about racism. You teach your kids about everything else. You can teach them about sexism, you can teach them about society, you can help them to understand that the evils of this world in the same way you help them to understand everything else. Yeah,

man, so beautifully put, and I love that, because I love the analogy, also of like, you're gonna spoon feed, and then you're gonna get into solid foods, and then you're gonna, but then you got to start getting to taste things that they probably don't like, right? It's like, I don't care if it's great. You go. Yes.

Yeah. Like, listen, you don't get up from the table that you eat your food. Right, right. Yeah. But and the same be said about how we educate our children. You don't get it from this table. And so you understand what I'm trying to tell you right now.

Right. But one of the reasons why we are here today, one of the many is because people are afraid that they don't have the right words, in social justice conversations in diversity, equity, inclusion conversations, most people don't speak up because they are afraid to offend. And they are afraid to not be seen as completely woke. And it's interesting as like, as I went through my through through the training that I was afforded to me, as a student leader, and then as a professional in higher education. I'm like, I learned, I learned I got uncomfortable, and I kept moving. But I also know that there was a point where I decided that I was woke enough. And so I was woke enough. Now let me see your post online and let me come right for your throat real quick. Let me call you out. Let me be like, bye bye. Bye. Let me hit you with the one too. Oh, right. But there is power in in finesse. There is power in in the spoon feeding there. Like when we think about coaching. When we think about coaching, the great professional baseball coaches would not be great, literally coaches, right, we have coaches that get us through different parts of our training. And and we can play a role and so even if you are uncomfortable with the language that is being used, even if you're uncomfortable with I don't know the perfect way to say this, so that I don't offend anyone. opening your mouth is always better than not opening your mouth getting a kid to get up there and try to swing the bat. You're gonna you learn to swim after you got in the pool, not before. But we got a lot of people waiting on the side of the pool to be told that they can swim and exactly how to swim, but you ain't go no shit until you actually get in the water and put your body in motion. It's the same thing with a lot of social justice training. And for me when I got to woke, or whatever, when I was feeling myself, I needed to check myself in that moment as well. Because meeting people where they are is powerful. Congratulations that you figured out that black lives matter. That's incredible. Thank you for being here. Now let's think about what was the process you took to get here? How can you help assure people along that process instead of beating them over the head? That's like climbing a mountain getting the top and telling everybody at the bottom they suck like you didn't just try to climb the whole damn mountain yourself. So sorry, I'm on a soapbox right now. But let me move off real quick but still. So it's interesting as we're trying to find the right language to use. Not being afraid as parents, not being afraid as friends talking to other friends as as people talking to old neighbors that pop up on Facebook or whatever. Not being, not being afraid of saying the exact like something wrong I think is important. Like, you've got to start talking. And so I would be curious, like you do a lot of training at the institutions that you've worked at. And you've done a lot of trainings with institutions that you have worked at. And, you know, we talk, you and I have had many conversation about critical race theory, and, and whatnot. And I don't know if we're quite at the point of the conversation where we need to jump heavy into critical race theory. But if you got a cliff notes that you could ease people in with, we can talk a little bit about it. And I'd be curious to hear some thoughts, but like, how do you recommend individuals start having conversations that are uncomfortable, that are necessary? Um,

well, I would say this, I don't have a whole lot of syntax to offer. So I'm not sure if I can tell you exactly what you should say. But here's what I can help, what I believe I can help for individuals to understand. Racism is an extremely complex issue. It's an it's an extremely complex phenomenon. And I do this with caution. But if we're talking about how to summarize it, I will summarize it in a binary. Okay, so I need people to understand that racism isn't just the individual, it's also the institutional. And so if you're looking for a way to understand it, and how to at least internalize it to have somewhat of a conversation, understand that it's not just an individual problem. black people and white people don't just have some sibling rivalry, like we lost a baseball game to white people, you know, 100 years ago, we just, we want to get him back. We don't just dislike each other because of the color of our skin. That's one of the things that really irritates me is when people say things like simply because the color of his skin, it's not just simply because of the color of his skin, there's so much more that his skin represents, that goes beyond just its color. So I would under I would help you, I would want people to understand that it's not a matter of people treating each other, right, or treating each other equally, or cheating each other the same, or being nice to each other, are not about sitting at the lunch counter with each other, or marching alongside each other. It is about dismantling institutions that have been set up historically, to lock to offer opportunities to some people. And like other people out of those opportunities, or slow the advancement of the opportunities of others, so much so that one group of people gets an advantage. And we you talk about critical race theory. And I'll get into that in just a moment. But to summarize that point, I would want people to understand that it is the it is not just the interpersonal forms of racism that exists, it is the institution. The officer didn't the officer who murdered George Floyd didn't do it just because he didn't like him as an individual. He didn't do it because they didn't like each other, you know, like they saw each other one day and they got into it. And I'm gonna go get this guy because we're

trying to bring down like nightclub thing, like they work together in a nightclub in a while a wonderful, each other. It's like, it wasn't

a robbery, you know, saying the reason why he died is because the institution of our police force has been positioned as a paramilitary force that designed to keep certain groups of people in line, even if I have to take your life in order to do it. Yeah, that's the institutional part of this conversation that we had to get over. And so I would, I would caution individuals to think of it that way. Critical Race Theory is, is a theoretical framework, by Dr. Gloria Ladson. Billings. And there are a number of other scholars. So if I have any academic scholars out there who know about critical race theory, you know, please, please correct me. I know I may be missing a number of authors. But Dr. Gloria Ladson billings is the first scholar that comes to mind. And critical race theory seeks to offer a theoretical framework to educate people on the ingrained nature of race and racism. And so it centers itself on three different pillars. The first is the ingrained nature of race and racism. This reality that race and racism are ingrained in the very fabric of our nation. Racism existed before this nation had a name a flag or a national anthem. It existed before we even call it America. So the fact that when the declaration of in independence was written. And it was written that people like me were only three fifths of a human being that is ingrained into the constitution of our nation. The fact that we had to have an amendment to that to that notion tells you how ingrained racism is. We talk about a lot of the great things that exist in the in the constitution of our of our United States. But we don't talk about all of the other things that are existed, like the fact that women didn't have the right to vote that's ingrained into the fabric of our nation. So when we talk about the ingrained nature of recent racism, it is important to understand that it exists in many forms throughout the fabric of our nation, whether we want to whether we want to admit it or not. The second tenet of critical race theory is understanding the power of the narrative, and the master narrative and a counter narrative in the grand narrative, and being able to understand how our stories are told by people who do not experience our life. People who do not experience what we go through, they have the power to tell our stories. And so critical race theory challenges scholars to change the narrative, through the power of scholarship to change the narrative by doing the work by finding the data by reporting the findings. By understanding the implications of practice. It challenges us to change the narrative and understand how the master narrative has been crafted for us. But we are responsible for the Canon area. And finally, the third tenet of critical race theory is interest conversions. And what that means is the dominant people who represent the dominant culture, often don't take an interest in your struggle until it converges with theirs. So Reebok recently put out a statement that said, and I'm paraphrasing, but ultimately, their statement said, Reebok wouldn't be who it is without the black community. And that's true. Because we all know what we all know how dope the questions were, right. The AI out of novices know how dope those were. We all know how to Sheckler, right. We all know sneaker culture that black folks bring to the table,

the pop right? They came out with the pop. Yeah, right. We all understand that.

My question to Reebok is, why did it take for an individual to have a police officers knee all his neck for nine minutes? priyada say that? Yeah, I didn't understand that when Mike Brown got gunned down. Got to understand that when when Trayvon was going down, didn't think enough of it to say when a Mahdavi was shot jogging in his own damn neighborhood. That's interest convergence. The only reason why Reebok felt compelled to put out a statement at this point is because they understood that they can no longer afford to be silent. They can no longer afford to be silent. In the other incidents, they could afford to be silent and be okay. You'll be okay if we just if we if we just fall back on this one. But it took a police officer to kneel on the man's neck for nine minutes and look you right in the camera. Right with a handwriting

with the hand in the pocket a casual killing? Like Yep, yes, sorry,

it's a dead Yep. For you all to understand that the black folks have been the fruit of your labor for over 50 years. To that I say that's interest convergence. Now, while I can appreciate the notion of care, and the statement that was put out, what I called them to the carpet on is why it had to happen in this format. Why it had to be such an extreme circumstance before we heard from the companies that we have given our money to trigger that is where the buying power for centuries. That's interest convergence. So critical race theory is a theoretical framework that allows us to see the ingrained nature of recent racism and allows us to understand how the narrative is shaped and shifted to support white supremacy and white power. And it is also helps us to understand how interests converge with one another. And I think it allows us to really see how we can call people to the carpet on their true on the true essence of what it means to be inclusive and to develop and to develop equitable, equitable policies and procedures.

Yes, first off, thank you for the lesson. And and it's so powerful the way you laid it out, makes it makes it digestible, comprehensible. And and thank you for that. It's interesting. We watch we watched companies what to watch companies was two months ago, right? Two months ago, every single damn company I've ever bought a sock from I've ever bought a razor from I ever bought a I ever breathed the air in their store one time and if somehow were able to capture my email, I got an email from every company telling them how much they care about me and my health. I watched I watched them thank God for Subaru, and it's COVID-19 and we're all in this together bullshit commercials. Right? Like, we got an email from literally every company that's ever existed. How many emails have you gotten? Since George Ford was murdered? Come on. How many emails have you gotten? Right? I got one. I'll be I got one. It was from Airbnb. Airbnb put out a really great email, they donated $500,000. And it was well said, and I give them props for that moment. Right. But like, even when we think about education, like like, what my my undergrad hasn't said anything yet, like my graduate school, has my undergrad like educational facilities, learning training companies, that right, you know what I mean, like agencies that we were a part of, it took them a week to put out a post on Instagram. And you know, it's like you have I'm not gonna crap talk them, but still you don't I'm saying it's like, Where were y'all at right now? Where are you at right now? Right. And and, and so it is very interesting to think about, and and just just raise an eye right, especially to that third interest conversions. Yeah. Especially right now where these emails at, right? Yeah. And it is, it is so disappointing. disheartening, but also eye opening to see, we are in an incredibly important time. And it is just devastating. It is devastating that like if we look back through all of through all of the people that have been murdered by the police, publicly or not publicly, we look back at all the black bodies that have been murdered by the police. Is it because this was the most blatant? Is it because this white dude kneeled on this man's neck with his hand in his pocket and looked in and looked looked right at the camera like this is going down? Keep filming it, right. Like, is it like, is it because it's the most blatant, but it feels different? The country feels different right now now than it has in the past. And I'm wondering if you're feeling that I live in Minneapolis. Right? I live in Minneapolis. And so I know I'm feeling a different than people who don't live in Minneapolis, right? I didn't, I didn't. I didn't live in any I didn't live in Ferguson. I didn't live in Baltimore. I didn't live in Georgia. I didn't write like right here. But I do live in Minneapolis. So I know it feels a little different for that for me, but it just feels different nationally. I'd be curious, are you feeling that? You know, being being outside Chicago, a city that has a historical slew of some issues, and especially with with racism, and redlining and things like that? Yeah. Why is this different? Why are? Why has it taken this to get people to put black squares on their Instagrams? Right, we'll only do like, what is it for you as

well? Well. I supported a black square movement, but Drew Brees put up a black square, and then turned around today and said that he didn't think anybody should disrespect the flag during the national anthem. So I support the black squares. But if you're just doing that, just to be a part of this social media, then that you're you're missing the point that's like

Home Depot, Home Depot, Home Depot, coming out with a pride logo. Get the f Addy here

for absolute selon pride bottles, but you don't hear about them when trans individuals are disproportionately que, you know, I'm saying like, you know, that there's a lot to be said there. Um, what I will say to, to the question about difference. You know, I gotta be honest, James, I don't think is that much different than what we've seen before. I agree, this isn't that much different. Um, this isn't the first time that our people have been taken in front of our eyes. You know, this isn't the first time that we've dealt with riots and individuals who just can't take it anymore and have no other way. This isn't the first time that we've seen those things. And, you know, I heard a I heard a comment on on a on a on a corporate news station the other day, I was happy to distinguish between corporate news and public news. And if you ask me for implications for practice later, I have a great format for how I think you should take in your news, but I was watching one of the corporate news stations when the cable news stations and one of the commentators said this wouldn't have happened. And this didn't happen when Dr. King died. And I'm like,

Yes, it did. 100 100 Plus cities

did people write it all over the place? They taught a whole damn place up what did you What do you mean, this didn't happen without where did you grow up? Who taught you today? Who's telling the story? So to your to your original question about it being different. I don't I don't know if I'm ready to say It feels different. What I will say is, it feels like a tipping point. More so than I feel like I felt in the other cities in the one thing that makes me feel that way is and I see sister Jeanine saying, Janine Patterson saying that rice or the or the crowd can hurt. That's so true. That's a poignant quote from Dr. King. And it's the truth. I want to talk about violent protests in just a moment, but just a moment, but it seems different. Because of the nature of the video, there was something about the police officer, looking into the eyes of the camera that I think felt different for me. To me, it felt different to me, it's not different, because it's happened before Mark Furman, you know, I'm saying Don't Don't forget about Mark Berman, who was also on Fox News the other day, Mark Furman, you know, got up on the on the stand that they played a tape of the interview we have where he openly admitted to police brutality, he openly admitted to racialized police brutality. So what's not different, he was looking in the camera at that time during the OJ trial. So it wasn't, you know, because being blatantly and casually, taking black and brown lives is not different. It's not new. But what's different about it today is that it was filmed by a 17 year old black, one, black young woman that's different. That's new. It was it was filmed in a bath by a few other people from different angles, that's new, that's different. It was caught on tape, which citizens who can immediately upload it and get it to the people, they didn't have to sell it to the new station. That's new. That's different. And I think those are the things that I that I believe are causing the revolution that we see. To to the, to the notion of, to the notion of newness, I would just caution people to understand that none of this is new. It is a repeat. It is a pattern of behavior that is existed in our nation for many, many centuries. And what we saw is not just at the hands of police, General, white citizens have been guilty of racial violence. The people who caught a mob arbory and shot him were not police officers, right. They were general, everyday citizens making what they call a citizen's arrest, which tells me that white people in that position felt like they had as much power as the police. Yes. They had as much power as the police to take your life. So I would just caution people to be careful with this idea of newness, just because it's new to you. Don't mean it's new to us. Yeah. It's old, actually. And that's the reason why people are act reacting in the way that they are, is because it's old. It's an old problem. It's an age old problem that's going to happen, happening for centuries. What's new, is the fact that we are able to tell the stories ourselves. And we don't have to wait for somebody else to tell that story for us. We don't have to wait for a movie studio to tell to tell the story in a way they see thing. We don't have to wait for a news story to tell the story. And when a sci fi, we pull the camera out and tell the story I sales. And then I think is the newness of the situation.

Yeah. Yeah, powerful. And I agree. You know, you and I had a conversation recently, where we talked about a pet peeve of yours. And a pet peeve of yours is when a lot of people are now coming out being like, we need to start the conversation. We need to we need to start the conversation. It's like, No, you need to, you need to join the conversation. You need to write like, like your conversation has been going right. Like and and. And that was powerful, right? And what a twist on that, that I really liked. For instead of people saying we need to start the conversation, what was your What was your twist on that? I really loved it.

Um, I'm glad you said that. Yes. One of the things that irritates me when this happens is are individuals who say that we need to start the conversation or I'm hoping that we need that we can use this as a as a way to start the conversation. And I believe that it is a highly problematic statement because it assumes that people like myself haven't been having this conversation for our whole lives. I've been having this conversation my whole life. I had this conversation when I was 12 years old and my me and my mother were pulled over at an ATM machine by police officers who stopped us at the ATM machine and ran up on us. Guns weren't drawn but they had guns in their hand and said that we fit the description of two individuals who robbed an older lady and elderly lady somewhere in the area. Earlier that night. A mother and her 12 year old son fit the description of burglaries? I started the conversation at that time. Yeah, you understand I'm saying? So it assumes don't assume that people are just now starting the conversation. Listen, just because you just now started me. Don't mean, I guess because you just now starting to talk about it don't mean everybody else is the world doesn't revolve around you. Um, you said, you had a good response to this last night. And you said, but what about for individuals who really are starting the conversation right now. And I appreciate that, because there are some who are just now starting the conversation you mentioned, you were somewhere in your 20s before you were truly exposed to, to brought to a certain level of understanding. There may be individuals who are, you know, 20 3040, or 50 or 60 years old, who are just now bringing this to their understanding. So those individuals, my response is this. Those say that it's time for us to start the conversation, Use I statements and say it is time for me to start the conversation. It's time for me to start the conversation with myself. It's time for me to start the conversation with my family. It's time for me to start the conversation with people don't my job. It's time for me to start the conversation, educate myself more about how I can become a better person, and how I can understand my racial bias and my privilege. Don't tell us it's time for us to start the conversation. I see that in the same way. You ever you ever been, you know, around a person. You see You ain't seen a person in a really long time. And y'all shake up your damn book. And you say, Hey, bro, we got a late we got to get together. Let's get together some time. You don't say yeah, yeah, that's what's up. That's how I feel. Start the conversation. That's this this in the same vein, you and I both know that when you see that person you say we got to get together? You and I both know that you don't necessarily mean that literally. Nope. Yeah. Because it's vague. All I'm telling you is if you and I happened to get together sometime, that'll be great. Yeah, it'd be love. But we didn't make any plans. We didn't we didn't give a date, time location where we go eat what we're going to do. We didn't we didn't go into any of those specifics yet. All I said was we're gonna get together sometime. That's what starting the conversation means to me. What you're really saying to me is, we'll talk about this later. Yep. And I would really appreciate if we could start this conversation, another time, when it's more comfortable and more comfortable, more convenient, and hopefully not at all. But I really wish we could just have this conversation later, to the individuals who are just now starting the conversation. I'm cool with that. But I would encourage you to look at it as an individual and say, It's time for me to start the conversation, not us.

Rick, thank you, I cannot thank you enough for coming through to this show. It is it is very important for people to realize it and I want to I want to speak on this just for a second, it's very important that people realize that it is not the oppressed job to teach you about why their oppression should matter. And so it was really, I was very cautious and asking you, Rick, because this is this is a this is a tough time where everybody's got a lot of fields. But fortunately, there are educators like yourself that are willing to be in both spaces at the same time. Occasionally, the space where you are holding space for the needless murder of a black man at the hands of a force that is supposed to be protecting, right protect and serve. And in George Floyd, it is you are able to hold that space while you are also hold us able to hold the space for educating individuals that maybe aren't going through it the way you're going through it. And the way that you and the way that you spoke this evening is a gift. I cannot thank you for what you taught me right like you, you and even in the way that you checked me on some of my language in this conversation was was I'm very grateful for and because I'm a work in progress, your work, work and progress being the key words.

No, let me let me say something if I can offer just a couple of key takeaways. I just want to offer a couple key takeaways that I think that you know will be helpful. You You mentioned being a work in progress. And I'm a spiritual man, as I mentioned to you before. And one of my favorite scriptures says faith without works is dead. Faith without works is dead. And I believe that in order for us to move forward is going to take faith and works. And a lot of people have the faith, but they don't have a work ethic. They got all the faith in The world, but they're not willing to work for it. And you have some folks who have all the work ethic, but they have none of the faith. And so to that I say, spiritually, those two must converge, we must understand what it means to have faith and how that couples and is connected to the work that we must do in order to move forward. But for those who are just doing the work, it is not enough to just do the work, you must have the faith as well. Those too much work in tandem. I would also say to individuals, if you're asking about what black people want, it is not for a chance to sit at the same lunch counter with you. It is not for the chance to ride on the same bus with you. It is not for the chance to shake hands with you and live in peace and harmony. A BLACK AGENDA exist in a Black Agenda means offering equitable opportunities in the areas that we have been historically left out. over the 401 years that we have been on in on this soil in this nation. We have been deprived of a quality of its education. We have been deprived of economic opportunities, entrepreneurship opportunities, real estate and homeownership with redlining. I saw somebody mentioned that before. We need to dismantle the prison industrial complex, we don't need to reform it. We need to dismantle it. As my NGO Cody says we need to end the school to prison pipeline we need to offer you want to you want to talk about reparations pass House Bill 40. I want my 40 acres and I want my mule. You want to talk about past reparations. The six year old little girl a George Flores Bo daughter is trading miss today about she was she was on on on a sitting on her uncle's shoulders smiling saying my daddy changed the world. You want to change the world give guarantee her a college education and give her a no interest no money down no interest home loan to start with. She's 18 years old, she can have access to property and economic will you want to you want to change the world. Give her those opportunities. Don't just give her a symbolic gesture. Don't name a street after her father, don't just give a resolution give her an opportunity to succeed that you would take away from her if you didn't if this would otherwise circumstance. You want to talk about equity. We have to give equity not equality, but equitable opportunities in the areas that we have been historically like out in voter suppression. That's it. That's a Black Agenda. That's an equity agenda. Yes. Once we realize these things, then America will live up to his true promise. The true promise not just the promise for white men and women. Um, one other thing I want to say real quick. Please man. Stop misquoting Dr. King. Stop. Oh. Oh,

they are? Are they ready? Are they ready to

stop misquoting Dr. King. When Dr. King died he was one of the most hated men in America. And he died broke. Many people don't know this, but Harry Belafonte had to pay for his funeral. He didn't have the money to pay for his funeral when he left behind four kids. I mean, kids, I got four for Dr. Kane left behind four kids. Malcolm X left behind four kids are both of these men died before the age of 40. And they died broke. Scott misquoting Dr. King, he didn't die in his sleep. He didn't die of natural causes. He was murdered. So when we speak about Dr. King, we don't need to speak about the death of Dr. King. We need to speak about the murder the vicious murder, he was shot in the face, bro. He was shot in the face in a suit on the way to work. Don't tell me I need to pull up my pants when Dr. King was shot in a suit. One of the one of the most famous calls Dr. King has that people like to misquote comes from an essay he wrote on macOS on this called the rising tide of racial consciousness. And in that essay, Dr. King said Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice. everywhere, everywhere, right? But a lot of people don't know that. There's an A portion and a B portion to that, quote. We only quote a portion of it. But the full quote says an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. Therefore, no American can afford to be apathetic about the problem of racial justice. That's the full quote

right? Here that part though people care people are not ready for it.

They're not ready for it. Therefore, no American can afford to be apathetic about the problem of racial justice. You want to quote Queen Cole King, quote him appropriately. An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. Therefore, none of us can afford to be apathetic about race at this time. None of us can afford to be apathetic about race and racial justice at this time. So I appreciate the opportunity to be here. I appreciate the opportunity to speak and to be a part of your enormous platform like See, if we go back, we got roots. And I truly appreciate that and keep doing the work. Because it takes all of us to do it. And, you know, while while while I am exhausted by being the person, by being by feeling like I have to educate White people on my blackness and on black history, I still take that, that mantle on, for the ancestors who couldn't do it. But the ancestors who didn't have the opportunity to do it. And furthermore, I don't trust white people to tell my story. No, I'll trust you to tip the teeth to teach me about me to teach my kids about me, I'm gonna tell the story. And we have to tell our story in the most accurate way. And so I appreciate the the platform to do that. And I appreciate you allowing this moment to resonate against to resonate with your with your platform as well. So thanks for having me. Oh, bro, really appreciate that.

Absolutely. I can't say enough, what a what a perfect Dr. King full quote to end on. And, and thank you. Even in the midst of being sick and tired of being sick and tired. Taking this opportunity to teach me and and and at a moment where people are listening a little bit more, your words resonate louder. And so thank you, thank you for for still for still spirit screaming into this. Because this can't just be some echo chamber. So

absolutely not. So want to say one more thing. I call for the open condemnation of racial violence and anti black racism. I call for the conviction, not just the charging, but the conviction of all four officers who were involved, I call for, for for them to be sentenced to the maximum, the maximum sentence and put them in a maximum security prison, not some nice little prison somewhere officer, why drop them in the same Rikers Island, you put the magazine, drop them in the same Rikers Island, you put all Pookie and Ray and all them and they family dropped them in the same space you put them in, I call for the destruction and the D and I call for the deconstruction of systems of inequity and the construction of new systems. That is my call. That is my charge. I don't want to see another Facebook status of how much you hate racism and how we all need to come together if you really want to help call for the charge and the conviction, because because police officers have been charged before. Sure plenty of times they have been charged before, but call for the conviction. And the accountability of officers will police violence, if they know they're going to end up in the same prison. They put us in, you know, think twice before they shoot. And I think that that needs to happen. It is the countability is the federal legislation that we need. Not just hugs and kisses. We need federal legislation, we the state legislation, we need action, political action, I call for voter voter voter confidence vote on all down better the elections. Don't just vote for the president, vote for all down Valley elections all the way down to your school board your ottoman vote for a mall, I call for the end of voter suppression and the end of voted depression. Don't be depressed about the vote, go out and do what you need to do. But also understand that it's not just the president. This didn't start with Donald Trump. And it doesn't end with Donald Trump. No, I'm gonna stay tweeting to write but it does start in in with you. So each individual has to own their privilege and own what they can do in their responsibility. And this notion we often hear, one of the things we hear a lot in community college systems is that enrollment is everybody's issue. Enrollment, everybody's responsible for enrollment. One of the things I'm known for saying in my college is that everyone is responsible for equity. Equity is everyone's issue. And so while you might not have been a slave master, that means you don't have a slave masters mentality. While you might not have participated in acts of racism as you know, it doesn't mean that you don't have racist ideology, racist mindset, we all need to work on what we need to do better to to contribute to the world, but I call openly for the conviction of all four officers and the passing of federal legislation that allows us to hold police and racial violence accountable finally once and for all

Yes, yes. Let's get those records public. Right like it's get those if it's got to be public right like you mean two to two of the four officers right had how many how many prior complaints and whatnot right and all that kind of stuff? Yeah.

Yeah, right. I know we're a fair fight calm Stacy gave me support that support that and I got nothing to show you. I got no books out right now. I got nothing like that. All I have right now is my heart. And my heart bleeds right now in the streets and I can go out and protest like I want to my protest has To start hearing the basement has to start at the dinner table. It has to start out in the yard, meaning the kids is working. It has to start here. And I encourage everybody here to do a bill Hooksett and organize anywhere. Y'all got to go out to the protest in order to order you can organize on your job. You can organize what you socially you have power. You have agents, you have a plan. I want people to understand that. Yes, so So thank you, bro. I appreciate it. Man. I'm fired up. I'll say I'm on a soapbox. I'm going to sneaker box. I'm going to sneaker box right now.

I've seen your sneaker game. And that is a bright, bright orange box too, if I know my man correctly.

Bro, I appreciate it, man. And I appreciate everybody who signed on. And thanks for having me on tonight. It's been great. Thank you very much.