New Paradigm of Leadership: We the Leader with Jeff Spahn

Welcome to the Seven Figure Spiritual Leader with Danielle Rama Hoffman, your fast track to partner with source to create your legacy business without overworking. Now let's dive into today's episode.

Welcome, divine leader to this episode of the seven figure spiritual leader on a new paradigm of leadership. And I am joined by author, Jeff Spahn of the book, we the leader who is also a client. So we're going to be diving into this whole new paradigm of leadership. Welcome, Jeff. So happy that you're here.

It's great. Great to be here, Danielle, and to share this experience with you, I want to make sure I get the opportunity to thank you for bringing forth the notion of the visionary heart, at least for me in this capacity, is the idea of equanimity. And peer to peer divine to Divine is something that's been latent in my life for a long time. And it's revealed pieces by pieces. And then came the visionary heart. And I soon as I read that, I was just totally drawn I, I'm going to France to learn more about this. And it was a great time and, and it's really another seed for the book with the leader. And then the help in terms of a garden into a little crunch with the pandemic about having a writer editor with me, journeying with me through the book, and I needed to find a new one. And the resources that you provided for that with Kelly Malone was fabulous. And it was like one of those things like, wow, I didn't know could get even better, you know, and so that was great. It was a pivotal point there, I think, at the beginning of 21, where I was just kind of, you know, kinda in kind of a segue, not really clear about where to go. And we had a session together, and I don't recall anything intellectually, but the energy shifted, and then I was able to kind of, and then move on and, and, and complete the book. So thank you for that. And it's it's just fun to experience, the visionary heart in those ways between the two of us and your team.

Yeah, beautiful. Thank you. So just for those of you who may not be clear what the visionary heart is, as we've known each other now, since 2016, and that your first introduction as a client was with the Divine Light activation program that you're talking about with the visionary heart, which is the first Divine Light activation, which is all about equality and relationships, equanimity, and really a revolution in relationships, which really is also a key and foundation to We The leader. And I remember after our week together in France with the group, we were talking about divine lat light activation, and where does it come from here, and, you know, where do things go, and to me that programs really about, you know, activating the next level of your mission. And so as we fast forward, you know, seven years here, you've been on mission like when we met, you were already in mission and had this amazing business. Yet fast forward, there's even this like more expansive emanation of your mission, which is encapsulated in this book, leader. So let's talk a little bit more about this new paradigm of leadership because I do feel like it's such a core part of divine transmissions where clients is as, like, I'm the teacher and there's the client in a hierarchical way of creation and part of that plays quality and that you have a piece and I have a piece and that's really exciting. And I think that's what was really exciting for you about Yeah, together and also a big part of your mission. So what more about that piece?

I just get excited about this just hearing you say it, you know, there's just Whoo, you know, I get lit up you know, I love this. And in there were a number of things that came clear to me in the course of writing the book, we the leader, and I'm sure you've had this experience where I don't know, I feels like the book was writing me more than I was writing the book. And that's kind of that nice little flow space where it's like, oh, you know, the, the visionary heart with the energy of the book itself, you know, kind of a co creative sort of process. And then one of the things that came to my mind, and this isn't anything, it's kind of obvious. But I want to say it in terms of who we are the identity of who we are within an organization. And that organization could be two people, or more. And each of us is a leader of our own lives. And that's something that's very foundational, and permanent in terms of my experience with divine transmissions and your work. So I'm not going to elaborate on that. But then when, when those leaders join an organization, wow, you've got a community of leaders within that organization. And then what do you do with that? How do you avoid the too many chefs in the kitchen, and then but at the same time, we, our organization has a common purpose. And so everyone is a follower of the common purpose. And so everyone shows up as a leader of their own life and increasingly a leader within organizations, and a follower of a common purpose. So the organization is identified as a community of leader followers. And then the hierarchy isn't to control and command, but to facilitate the collective flow of that community of leader followers. And so that's the framework of the expression of the visionary heart within today's organizations that we the leader then sets forth, and then okay, how do you? How do you make that happen?

Yeah, and I know one of the themes that the guides talk a lot about which I feel like it's also what you're sharing here is that we are giving and receiving and having at the same time, and yes, you talk about in WWE, the leader, the simultaneity of leading and following at the same time, and that is such a paradigm shift from the power over power under hierarchy way. And I really feel like there's so many individuals that are craving, craving that next evolution in leadership, which your book is such a beautiful demonstration of. So I want to slow that down a little bit. Because just leading ourselves and I know each of you tuning in, that a best practice for me is like your life is unique. So you may be a part of a corporation, you may have your own business, you may be a mother, like there's still a community or engaged with others. To me, this these principles are can be applied in so many areas. Of course, Jeff, you know, you work with organizations and corporations a lot and team building. And yet I do feel like these principles can apply. So the best practices to apply what we're talking about, to whatever is going on. And so leading ourselves applies to pretty much everything. And so would you talk a little bit more about that, and I believe in the book, you'd have something about, like being your own boss or bossing yourself or something like that.

Right? Right. Yes. And the whole notion of the uniqueness, you know, just to be reminded of that, I can't get too much of that just reminding myself and that I am totally unique and my experiences my body, my my physicality, my mental thoughts and feelings, nobody knows them, but me. Nobody does, and only I can bring them forth. And so that is just foundational. Again, this IDI peer to peer divine divine partnership, we the leader experience, if, if I as an individual don't show up as a leader and not just once in a while but as a way of life. I'm, that's, that's the movement and, and so in the book where I have a little fun with this notion of boss yourself, you know, Don't boss may boss yourself kind of thing. Kind of switching, switching it around and moving it internally and it's really, really quite basic. It's be there now. acronym is take that big deep breath. And every we know the power of those deep breaths, you know, the entertainers and athletes and those of us who are on a spiritual journey, the power of breathing is wow, it's just infinite, and words, all kinds of different ways to access it. But when we take that deep breath, or find that method of breathing on a day to day basis, a moment to moment basis of awareness of a conscious breath, then we can step back and observe ourselves, they owe for observe, observe ourselves in the moment all, here I am, I'm having this conversation with Danielle and, and there's a there's a space between us, it's all the almost like, this is the scene on the on the on top of the life play. And at the same time, I'm in the audience watching it. And then in that space, I can decide how I show up and what I what I do. And that little ship does, as we all know, is, is the capacity then to make your choice to select to select the s. And that is just the awareness that I have a choice of how I'm going to show up here, I might be feeling like, totally angry. But if I can step back and observe, hey, I feel in this way, but I have a choice in every moment how I want to show up and how I want to want to be and how I feel, and to take to take ownership of that. And then the second S is just simply to make that choice to suspend the judgment and choose to curiosity, or whatever that choice might be, it might be to take more deep breaths and step back longer and observe and repeat those, those processes over and over.

Yeah, and I love what you shared there. And you hinted in it. In the beginning, when and I remember when we have that session with your with your book and moving forward, your your book and, and one of the foundations or the premises that I come from the guides come from is that like our books are beings of light, or businesses are beings of life, and that we're partnering with the energies. So when you were talking about like the book writing you, there's you there's a book, and then there's the third thing of the relationship. And that's the same thing. Like there's me, there's you and there's the the third thing, that's the the space in between us, which also includes each individual that's tuning into this, this podcast, there's this collective flow, and it's really powerful and potent, and the uniqueness as well, like I remember when divine transmissions, because I speak with my business was saying, Okay, it's time for you to co create more. And I was like, Okay, that sounds cool. You know, how do I do that? And in the beginning I in the application of that. So I really want to ask, like, the question is when somebody stopped leading their team, right? What to do? And in the beginning, it was like, Okay, well, I'm gonna leave space for others to step forward. And I noticed I kind of like what backup from the 50 line 50 yard line as we talk about in the visionary hearts, like, well, that's not working, like I need to be really, you know, divinely matching, being my full self. And recognizing that cocreation doesn't mean same, same, like I'm going to meet the CEO is going to bring the everyone's going to bring something unique. So is there anything that you would share about like for those that do have our own businesses and we're leading team and, you know, the others aren't really stepping forward? Or it's a whole thing? I know, you work, you know, with teams about this, but yeah,

well, yes. I would love to respond to that. There's there is quite a bit, but what's coming up for me is the the tendency for some leaders, particularly who are strong leaders, they realize, hey, I'm dominating in this, and I need to step back. And, and we have a process called the three weights, you know, wait three times. I would say I'm in a dialogue with the team and, and my tendency is to, you know, okay, here's, you know, here's what we ought to do. And I'm thinking this, the exercise is to wait once and then see if it comes back again, twice, and then see if it comes back the third time and then after three times, if no one has said what I was thinking I want To say, then go ahead and say it, but it's making making space. Now, there's a very delicate balance, at least at least to me, that happens here. Because a lot of times, other leaders, what they do is I'm not going to say anything till the end of the meeting, because they want to create space, it's well intended. But that doesn't create consistent collective flow, it helps, it helps. So we can't stop there. The leader needs to get to the point that she or he shows up with what they think and feel in the moment in a way that inspires others to show up with what they think and feel in the moment live. And then when we have that live energy going with everybody being in the moment with what they think and feel and desire, whoa, that's where we get into that collective flow space. And learn to do that as a team, because it's got to be everybody is key to getting into that consistent collect the flow, which is the purpose of way the leader is to help teams and organizations to experience consistent collective flow.

Yeah, as you're speaking about that, you know, there's a lot of conversation around feminine and masculine energies these days. And yeah, and sacred union, of course. And I remember when I was like, 12, or something, my horseback riding teacher, and really one of my early mentors at horseback riding camp where I ended up learning Reiki, and you know, from them as well, like, they were a big part of my life, was just noticing, like, I had a very strong best friend like she was she talked a lot. And there was this idea, she said something about like, will you lead from behind, and it always stuck with me of like, the uniqueness as leaders like how, to me the simultaneity, there's a there's a very feminine aspects to that leadership. So is there are there other kind of archetypal leadership's or anything that you would say about that? Because it's obvious, like, okay, there's a dominating, they're just going to come in. But then there may be others that are kind of, I don't want to say leading from behind, but, you know, truly have that space. Are there any others that come to you? And it's also like how to make space, I think my question is, is to call forth that uniqueness in a way that everyone's bossing themselves, but they're bringing it

right. Well, and something you mentioned earlier is coming to mind, just the idea that we're constantly giving and receiving. Now, we're not always aware of it, but we can't get out of it. And Mary Parker Follett calls that the circular response, and there's a constant mutual, mutual exchange, and, and even though it's just say, with, with me with my clients, right, I'm on one level, I'm the giver, and they're the receiver. But on another level, if my purpose is to perpetuate, and the practice of we the leader, then they are giving me an opportunity to live my purpose. And often that becomes unspoken, and that's, that's the mutuality, that we, that we're always in, but not always recognizing, and, and bringing that to the table, seeing each other as bat, in a team in a family in a relationship helps us access that collective flow space, that that energy, that feeling of connection and the wisdom that lies in between us.

Yeah, well, I know in the book, as well, as you're talking about that collective flow, that that you do talk about, you know, equity and inclusion, like the inclusion energy, right. And that inclusivity is really based on like, everybody has a seat at the table. Right. And, and to me, I always have that sense of like, there's this round table of counsel, and this that it's a round table in a team, even though there's the hierarchy within the organization. And so, what would you share about like the inclusion aspect of it and maybe it dives into the, you know, the curiosity piece of it is

okay. Yes. Well, one of the things that I discovered reading and writing the book is actually my clients and friends are reflected back to me. This that we the leader is a Diversity Equity and Inclusion operating system. It's not a program over here. But the the belief and the principles and practices of diversity, equity and inclusion are fundamental to the practice. And I outlined that a little bit earlier, like, everyone as a leader of their own life is totally diverse. And that activates diversity. And then the equality in the relationship or an organization or a team. it equalizes the, the relationship so we have the diversity and equity. And then the the the Unity the unifier of we the leader, that's where everyone is, has a part and a puzzle image comes to play there, right we, we as a team, I in a relationship or in an organization, everyone brings a piece or a few pieces of the puzzle of the organizational team or relational puzzle. And, and bringing those pieces then if one piece is gone, it's not complete, every piece is vital, everything needs to be there for it to be complete. So we have the EAC the diversifier, the equalizer and the unifier. Those are the three sections of the book. And then within that, how do I present my piece, and you mentioned this earlier, sometimes within a conversation, we, we think are pieces, the whole thing, the whole puzzle saw, I mean, I convinced mode, right. And that tends to be the the orientation of those who tend to dominate. The other other side of it is all my pieces and important, and so I hide it. And that tends to be those who set back. But for this puzzle to get put together the puzzle of collective flow, everyone needs to bring what they think and feel as a piece as a different, equal and vital piece, what they currently think and feel and want to play into that dynamic. And then a curious conviction is how you do that.

Yeah, wow. Hmm. You know, it's, it's kind of interesting, of course, because my vantage point, and I know a lot of folks as well, here are entrepreneurs. And, and so there's the opportunity to partner with clients, and then also a beautiful opportunity to, to really partner with, with team, you know, with staff and to me, being, of course, a part of a transformational business and wanting to make a contribution, that that simultaneity is really alive in the team, like I really can see how I've evolved from having team and the teams evolved from being a part of divine transmissions, and it just keeps, it keeps going. And at the same time, you know, there, there are those overlays about relationships and how we relate to people and the projections and, you know, like, does something not get done because the leader wasn't clear about it, or about all those kinds of things. Right. And the thing, that the question in the field is really like, Okay, I have a team and there is a, there's some issue there. And I know I need to be a better leader or so I know, that's a general thing, but it just keeps coming up. Yeah, so see if there's something that comes to you and then downhill from there.

Yeah, well, I think in some ways, I know from my own experience, these are often challenge points for me leading myself and not shifting into blame or into judgment, particularly around something that's so important to me. You know, I like you know, we the leader, you know, and so, my sensitivities jump up and I need to become even more a leader of my own life and practice it's an opportunity for me to get back to those and and those those those basics, those fundamentals and revisiting the breathing, the observing and selecting, I'm going to show up in this moment, and this time, and, at least for me, you know, I can go a couple of days I've gone two or three years without really observing my myself and I, maybe most of my lifetime, but two or three years, I know for sure, I hardly did it. And so that's, that's the, that's the first thing. And then the other thing is in to have guidelines for each other, you know, to have, you know, a set of agreements, you know about, okay, here's how we want to show up. And when, you know, okay, when when you experience me as being, you know, out of myself, you know, not not connected to myself. You No, I want to, I would like you to reflect that to me. And here's, here's how that might work. And so that we can get, we can, more and more in the moment, help each other because there are times when I am in a reactive state, I'm not taking responsibility for my response, the ability to respond. And, and so that that kind of an understanding of how we how we're going to work together is very helpful. And if I know in teams, I've seen people grow in the context of teams with these agreements, that otherwise would, would not have. And when they leave that team, they they go, they go downward again, they don't again, in that reactive mode, don't know it and they're stuck in it. Know, I'd like to mention something you, you've talked about science, you mentioned Simonton to NAD a couple of times that I'd like to just define that a little bit, at least from my perspective. And in the context of the history of the evolution of leadership. We've had the traditional solo leader, okay, okay. Command and control. And then that evolved in like, 1969, the servant leadership and situational leadership came out, so there it was, lead or follow depending upon the situation. And that was a huge evolution and leadership from a solo leader. I mean, it's easy to look back and think, Wow, that was huge. And now what's evolving is simultaneity and simultaneity is leading and following at the same time, simultaneity and that is the We the leader methodology for learning to lead and follow at the same time and invite others to do the same and, and create and accept and hold each other accountable to agreements about what that looks like.

About that in the book, which I would really encourage those tuning in to, to get this book, it's really an amazing evolution. And I know that the clients that I have a divine appointment with which I know that you and I have had this divine appointment that continues and in these different ways that we're here to evolve consciousness and to shift paradigms. So I really see what you've added in your mission to, to leadership and really witnessing and celebrating that. And it's such an honor and a blessing to partner with you. So and we'll include the link to get the book. We we the leader. So as we're wrapping up here, any final words that you would would share with us?

Well, two things are coming up. One is maybe related to what we've already talked about, I've noticed this notion of listening to with a leader, and like, I've noticed that like in promoting the book right? As Okay, what do we what do you want, what do we what do we want needed this time and I kept getting messages, just give me space, just give me you know, step back, you know, don't do so much you know, you know be attentive but so, that, that that that was one thing I wanted to mention in this other is this whole notion of collective flow and we the leaders built upon the fundamental principle of consilience, which is a from evolutionary biology, the Edward O. Wilson wrote the book consilience and consilience is the jumping together of opposing energies for something new. And so, that is a reframe of conflict, whether it's, it's the conflict we have within our team, or whatever. So that's a reframe, wow. This is an opportunity to create a I like the battery, right you have the positive and the negative, if you got two positives to negatives, you have no energy, it takes that contrast to create human life and, and the energy in the battery. And I go through the book and the number of that applies to a number of sciences. And so I want to just say, hey, let's reframe our conflict, wherever it is on whatever dimension it is into an opportunity to make a difference through our differences. And that then becomes the primary driver for experiencing consistent, consistent collected flow in relationships and teams and organizations. And as a human race, we can do this, we, we do it sometimes we just need to do more of it. And I'm hoping we the leader is a, you know, a map and an instructional guide to get there more consistently. I know it is, I'm hoping it does even more

beautiful. Thank you so much. And you know, that was just reminding me as well of when I asked divine transmissions, like what divine transmissions was wanting, which I feel like is another theme and our work together. And also what you just brought forward to the partnership with the book and really asking to have that guidance. And then it may be different than what we may think it needs to be. And then also that idea of kind of like divine geniuses, because I see a lot with my clients who are CEOs of their own businesses is that we have a tendency to, like hire individuals that are the same as us. You know, that doesn't really help to, to have the divine diversity to have different divine geniuses. And that that really is an important aspect. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thanks, Jeff. So much for our rich partnership and all the yeses and noes and renegotiates along the way. It's a delight and fun to be with you and thank you everyone for tuning in and inviting you to really lean into a new way of leading yourself.

Thank you, Danielle.

You're welcome.