The Business Side of Creativity | 041

Welcome back. We have a crazy episode for you today, and I am here in Horologe said that correctly. Studios with Aaron Lurie, and we are just going to have some fun today. Aaron is a photographer. He's been doing this for 18 years, sure, 813, 2487, hike, yes, we're a little off the

chain today. He has sound effects in everything. We are in this really incredible studio, and Aaron invited me over to do the podcast so that we could show off his cool, cool stuff. And why not? And have have a really fun conversation. Much

better than zoom. So much better than zoom, so much better. We have professional lighting, yes, the beautiful backdrops, beautiful guests we got you. Yeah, yeah. The talent is is amazing. You know what? We even have a live audience that just loves being here.

Thank you. No, it's too much. It's too much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah. So if you're so desperate, we bring our own audience wherever we go.

So now, yeah, so this is going to be a lot of fun today, very different than what I typically do. We usually get right into really, like, important things. And today we're going to play, okay, and do important things, importantly.

Play. Let's do it. Play, importantly, important. Employee, okay, tomato, okay, whoa, whatever you all want. Hang on for the

ride. Hang on for the ride. Here we go. So, Aaron is an amazingly talented photographer, videographer. He's given me a tour of his studio, which is absolutely incredible, what setup you could do all kinds of like, it's huge. Do you have the actual square footage of the studio? Over 2000 square

feet, over 2000 square

usable space. And then we also have our we're one of the only unique Studios here in the area that actually has an indoor and outdoor studio space. So we have a beautiful yard out front that has wrapped around pine trees, great for outside photography, business branding, minis, how holiday shoots,

anything like that. So it's really it's always whatever weather is outside and 70 inside.

Nice. Yeah. So as a creative entrepreneur, talk to me a little bit about what is it like to actually be a creative, to be an entrepreneur, and to make those two things work together successfully?

It's totally opposite. It's it's an it's an internal struggle, fighting against finding the squirrel, not the shiny, the shiny mechanism that just drives you as as how the brain works and your soul operates, so on and so forth, with the reality of how the world just needs to move

money from left to right. And you have to figure out, I think at that's probably about seven years into it. I was, I was up. I call my my nose in the air time it was, I'm the artist. I know how your event should look. I know what lighting should be, and you must succumb to my greatness of thought over

business. And they put me in a position of the people that did okay, like, trust me and do that. They like, they did it, but it was harder to make money because I was self centered to the art and not the business. And I think having a personal projects, or doing personal projects gets that itch off. But

as a business, I mean, it's all about, you know, the branding you're finding the person who connects with you, finding the person who wants to give you the money, right? Because you're, you're asking some, yeah, you have a service, you're giving it, but you have to get them to to buy into what you want yet

that need that niche. So I think anyone who is a creative I always, I get this asked all the time, what do I do as a photographer? I want to, I want to start a business. Good. Don't, don't even shoot. Go learn how to operate a business. Go learn how to market. Go learn how what business strategy are.

Go take business classes. Because without that, you don't really, you don't really have a business. You just are a photographer, videographer, a content creator, whatever it is. But you know, I see it all the time, on on, on the Facebook pages, and I think any of the professionals, like, we all

sorry, we all talk behind your back, guys, I'm sorry. We all do. We all why you're going to do a wedding for $150 like, that's absolutely insane. Like you're paying them your time to do the wedding. It's not a but that comes from the business sense, right there. They're producing from the artists,

artistry side, right? So when I see that, I got to always go, Dude, you were there at one point. It's okay, like, you want to go out and try to help everyone and be like, Hey, you're you're driving pricing down, or don't have the value. But it's okay because, you know, everyone has a budget. It's fine

if you want to meet that need awesome. And you know, I don't know if I beat a dead horse here, but no, that's good.

And I, I was reminded of a one of my favorite actors is Val Kilmer, and in his documentary at he made before he passed away, he talked about the fact that, as a young actor, when he was in Hollywood, it was about the art for him, and he was so entrenched in this has to be the art. It has to be, you

know, I have to find these projects that that feed my artistic soul. And I and he was so focused on the art that he actually got to the point where people stopped working with him because he was, I guess they would think he was difficult or something like that was in the air. Yep, and he did. He said at

the end of his life, I wish I had realized when I was younger that this is a business. So he got it later in life, and at that point he had health situations, and, you know, he wasn't, it wasn't really horrible that we did do a couple of films at the end of his at the end of his life. But he, he

said, Had I known, had I realized that it was that I am in this business? This is a business that I'm in. This is a business way, even if you're a creative and you want to make money, and you want to make a career at this it's a business because that's just the way it works. If you're not, if you

don't understand the business principles, if you don't understand how to build the business, if you don't understand how to not just price yourself, but how do you actually, I mean, how did you go from a guy with a camera to this gorgeous studio? You had to have some business sense. You had to

have some things going on where you understood that there's a bigger picture.

Yeah. So personally, I was driving by one day and saw someone building it, so I just threw them in the backyard and I took it over so, like,

don't go digging out back.

Nope, there's nothing there. I promise I didn't. Anyway, no, all drug inside for me, it's, it's still a struggle. It's all, it's always a struggle, right? And it's an idea, how do you turn that into, into the next idea? How do you, how do you get enough income to make that work?

And I love this story of ice man. You know, top gun.

He was the Top Gun, by the way. He was the title character in that movie. Title character of the movie was ice man, because, yeah, he's so cool. He was, he was not, it was not that other guy with the dark hair. He was not the title

character. Oh, you mean the guy that doesn't age, the guy

that didn't become the top gun in the school?

Yes, yeah, but he was an admiral in Top Gun too. Yeah.

Well, you know, that's Hollywood. Would he have really made it to Admiral? Let's be honest.

Okay, so parenting someone really likes them. Well, back to the question, What was the question again, was, was how you know to transition from the artistry side to the business and then finding out what you know how to make an income on things? I think you have to make a decision on where and when you

want to start making a business now, some people are lucky. Sometimes you have a creative side, and you have a creative business that just automatically people drive and they drop the dollars, and you build it, and it's there others, you have to work at it and figure out the balance between artistic

projects that really get your artistic fire Going and versus the projects that pay the bills or add extra to the retirement fund. And I think experience gives that I would want to always find someone who is successful, what you what you love, and beg them for an internship, beg them for working

with them for a week or six months, learn from the people that are doing it right, that don't just look successful, they really are successful. And those are the quiet ones. Those are the ones that, you know, they walk with big sticks, but you don't hear them coming, right? Yeah. So I was, I was very

blessed to to work with some amazing photographers when I first started, and it gave me a jump start on my art and what photography meant, because we'll give a shout out to the guy I can't remember right now.

So bad. Where's the want?

One can't think of his?

Name right now, keep talking, it'll

come back. No, it's not I'm getting old. He was a third generation photographer, so his his education came from film, and now, when I started, I was all in digital So, but he had the ability and knew how flash photography worked with portraits and events, and I worked with him countless,

countless times. Matter of my first wedding that I booked for myself, I stepped away from the main being the main photographer, and I brought him in, and he was the main photographer, because I was like, I booked myself a wedding. They loved my work, great, but I had no confidence on being able

to take on such an important day for someone that I was like, I think it's right by the client. And you know, it was more expensive to do as a, as a business side of it, it was like, All right, you do it. Another, another. Great advice I had was expanding my reach as as a, as a as a photographer, as a

content creator, and looking at more as a business. And if you look at a lot of for my industry, or even artistry, everyone has kind of their name on what they do, right? It's a personal name. Aaron Ross photography, this that I have more of a brand. And the reason we ended up with a brand was it

was allowing us to reach further with other people's talents and making our brand a much more needed product, because it wasn't just based off of my specific look, need or desire. And I was taught this early from a neighbor. She was the Caribbean, like VP of Pepsi, and I remember talking to her as I

started my business, and I was like, oh, this person asked me to do this job, and I told him I couldn't do it because this wasn't my skill set. And she this just Island woman, powerful, strong, like I felt like she just slapped me across the base, going, you never say no. You say, I can make that

happen for you. And you go out and find someone with that skill set, yeah. And you build your brand, and you build your name as someone who doesn't say no. It doesn't mean you have to be that person. It's you could. And that's when the business really started. In my mindset of, like, I have an opportunity to grow a

business, a content business, a photography, video company that, yeah, outside of my comfort zone, I can manage that all day long. I don't have to be the talent behind the lens to do so, right,

right? Like they say, you don't have to be an expert to be the person that people go to for information. You don't have to know everything. You just have to know who to ask.

Yeah, I mean, that's like, that's what a GC is, right? A general contractor, they don't do the construction. They just know what should be right or wrong. They bring in crews. And if you didn't know that, you know now. So they bring in crews. Yeah, they bring in crews, and then they manage

those experts on the

products. Well, you see a lot of artists, a lot of creatives who don't understand that concept. So I love that you're bringing this out like, you know, it doesn't have to be if it just because it's you, just because it's your art, doesn't mean that 100% of it has to be you. Like my

daughter is is an artist, and she is a silversmith, and everything that she creates, she creates with her own two hands. And that is a great it's amazing, and it's not scalable.

And that's where that's that's the limitation that you fall into. So, you know, I could only be in one place at one time. Photography, my rule of thumb is for every hour I'm photographing, there's three hours on the back end from editing, file management, client management, uploading, whatever

you got to do. So when you hire me for an hour, it's really four hours of my work day to manage that one account. Well, there's so much time in the day that I could do something, and there's just a limited amount of money, again, the business side of it, right, that you can make when you know you're just one person,

you look at any successful business, it's, it's repetition of the same product being sold. So if you know, it's 1000s and 1000s of SKUs being sold, replaced, sold replaced. Like, I can't do that in my industry, so I have to be able to bring people who could do the product, teach, train, take good care of

them, so they stay with me and give me loyalty, right? So we don't want to underpay them. We want to teach them. We want to give them knowledge and all that stuff, because that has to get passed forward to our clients. And now you have, you know, a workable model that works. And look, I don't want 30 events a

weekend, but I'm happy with two or three that's scalable for me, that I can maintain the quality. Quality that I want without losing and turning more into. I hate to say it, and I don't know if it's even Right, puppy, puppy mill, photography company that, just like they do 1000 events, they send the lowest denominator

photographer out there. Yes, you got photos, and they run it through, maybe an AI or not, but I don't that's not my place I want to be. That's that's not enjoyable.

Yeah, so, I mean, whenever you're creating and you're building a creative business, there's, there's a lot to think about in terms of how you're creating and what you're creating. What do you want to create? So like, when I work with my clients, we talk about, what is it that you actually

want to do like I worked with a videographer one time, and he was like, I want to be able to give custom work to my clients. I want to be able to have my hands on everything. And then he was looking at expanding in a way that would not allow him to have hands on with everything. And the conversation then

became, do you, do you want to maintain that what's more important that hands on, quality, custom situation, or is it more important to to scale in a different direction? And you know, make where, where it's not as custom, where it's not as hands on we were doing studio design. So could it be a generic

studio design, or was it was everything custom and bespoke? And so he had to make that decision, which was more important to his brand, was it to be more bespoke, or was it to expand and go into that other direction, and I keep hitting my microphone, and you keep hearing bangs, because I talk with my

hands.

You know, I think, as a creator, that's that's always the fight on. At some point it's like, again, that's that seven years ago where my nose was in the air and like, I'm going to be this person, everything's hand, hug, everything has to be. And then I had to figure out workflows that

allow me to maintain my happiness with the product, but be able to move product faster, quicker and create more income. And look, there's options. Maybe full time creative is not what you need to be. You need to be a weekend warrior with it, and there's nothing wrong with that. I have amazing weekend warriors

that work with me. They just they don't have they they are not comfortable in managing their own business, and it's not enough income to survive. So they do a nine to five, and then they have the weekends that they love, you know, giving 30% of their 40% of their weekends to our events and to our families

and to our clients, and we have, you know, and they're very talented, they just don't have enough ability to run a business comfortably. And there's nothing wrong with that, I think, and they just position yourself as a business owner. Hey, I have a micro business on this. I have a little business. Whatever it is,

it's just understanding what and where you want to be. And there's no shame in saying, Hey, I work with three companies. I run a successful photography business or content creation through others, versus having to be the main person?

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that, if you are creative and you want to be doing something, and you either don't want to be full time, or you are not in a place where you can do it full time, to look for those partners, my whole I fully believe that I have no competition there.

There's no competition. There's only collaboration. Just because I do something that I might do exactly the same thing that you do, I don't do it in exactly the same way. Yeah. And so there may be, well, I mean, when we had our video company, people would call us up all the time and say, Hey, we need XYZ. And I'd be

like, That's we can't do that. Let me give you three people that you can call and and so I can so I'm meeting that need. So are they going to come back to me next time? They might go to the person they used and they might come back to me, because I didn't just say, No, I can't do it. I gave them options to

I've received plenty of business coming back for me when I've given business away because it just it didn't align with the brand ideology that we're working with. And again, I know it might sound kind of true. Well, you said earlier, like, you know, never say no, and I'm like, It's not

No, it's just that's just something either doesn't fit my price structure, doesn't fit the energy or effort that I want to put in to make this the way it is. I know other people that this falls aligned with, and to me, taking care of the customer first before yourself is always going to put positive things

about your business out there. So you know, Hey, yo, I didn't use this person, but I had a great time. And working with them, and they helped me get what I needed, I highly recommend, like, that's a win. Yeah, checkbox. Win. Someone's out there praising my company, and there's other way, so many

places to have that done. So, yeah, yeah.

So I still, Aaron doesn't agree with me completely on my philosophy, but that's okay.

I kid because I look, I have, I as a photographer, we're booked out, like, for events, for weddings, miss things like that. We're booked out nine months up to two years in advance, yeah. And I was like, Well, you know you're going to be there, right? I'm like, I don't know where I'm

going to be tomorrow. I don't know where, like, I'm sorry, let's, let's be realistic for a second. I don't know where I'm going to be in two years. Like, God willing, I'm healthy. I'm here, no mage. Like, I mean, let's be honest. Like, three minutes from now, the world changes for everybody and again

and again. So I've developed, personally, I call it my 911 list. I have 20 professional photographers that shoot very high quality photos, are they me? Oh, no one's ever me. I can't reproduce me because I'm just a nut. So that's awesome, but their quality, they know how to operate, and that alliance is

built for not anything, but to protect the client. And if something happens, it's a text to 911, and the terms of the collaboration, if you're on the 911 list is you don't charge to do someone else's event, because we are so finite on it. And if you're in position and all of a sudden, like, be honest, we got

a deposit. We used it, we paid for it, we operated our business. Now you're asking me to pay you. You know, you know your normal rate. It doesn't fit with Kratos budgets, technically, normally, right? So in this case, it's, it's about the giving, right? Hey, I'm free this weekend. I got you covered.

I want to shoot your event, and God forbid you're in that position. You know that I got you that favor, because there's nothing worse than not being able to be there for a client and then having to figure out financial stress, personal stress, there's a reason you're not showing up. And so I had

this 911 listen, I get calls all the time, hey, how do I get on the list? How do I get on that list? And I'm like, as long as you understand the terms, let's get you on the list. It's we're not we're collaborating. We're not trying to earn money and get a free job from this list. This is like an emergency list to

protect my brand. Better off the clients day, because you can't redo the wedding day, right? You know, you can't redo the mystery. Can't redo the graduation day. There's just things that we have to have responsibility for and it's a lot of pressure. It's every day I look at my calendar, it's very

stressful to look at going, I have to be here no matter what happens. My family gets a second seat. And I don't think a lot of people understand that, especially in our industry, but even like event planners, or anything that has to deal with the public, that has to put someone else's life ahead of

theirs. We sacrifice so much because of those Google reviews, because of how scared we are on on someone just not having any understanding. And I gotta tell you, I love every client out there, but man, you love us until something comes up, and that's what you have to protect

Yeah, yeah. And, and the Google, let's talk a little bit about, like, getting a bad review. Like, there are ways

to I never had, we've never had one.

You don't actually know how to answer this question. However, I kind of do, though, hypothetically I do, because sometimes people misunderstood. We had someone come in to to our studio, and I'd spoken to him on the telephone. He told me he had something. He brought it in.

What he brought me was not what he said he had on the telephone, though I quoted him the price on the phone when he came and I said, Hey, this isn't what we talked about. It's now a different price. And he just gave us the worst review. And I called him up, and I was like, Hey, let's talk about this. And

I explained, once, I explained to him what happened. He understood, but what his experience was was beaten switch. His experience was, you said this, and then I experienced this. So once I we had a conversation, he understood what happened. He went back and revised his

review. And so there is, there are ways to go back and and check with people and say, Hey, here's what actually happened, or here's my perspective, or let's talk about this, and then then ask them to go out and revise it. Now, sometimes they won't. And then you have to, you know, you have to get other

people who really love what you do. And are, you know, your big fans, your raving fans, to put out some other reviews to sort of balance that bad review out. So there is a and, you know, everything. Is always changing with the way technology works and the algorithms and all of those kinds of things. So it is

especially for creatives, especially in these industries where it's it's your kind, your name on the line, even if it's your brand, that can be very paralyzing, that the fear of that. So it's something that exists. It has to be acknowledged. It has to be, you know, have a plan in place,

should something happen. But most people are reasonable SOPs. Oh, those are my favorites. Those are my favorites.

You don't know what an SOP is, standard of operation. I'll tell you who didn't jump in. Timing lady, let's work on the timing.

I thought you were gonna be I thought you were just gonna lay out all of your knowledge, standard, standard operating procedures,

standard operational procedures. That didn't work. It didn't work. Oh, there we go. There it is. So some about standard operation procedures is, I had one client who did not hire me because she got my contract.

Ah, tell me about your contract.

It's long. Ooh, like really long. Like, stupid, long did she read it? She didn't want to read it because it was long. And she said, I don't see why all this is in here. I might, because these are all the problems in 12 years I've come across. And if it was up to me, it would be one page. It would

be like, Hey, you owe me this money. Hey, I owe you this service. I'm going to be an honorable person who's going to do everything in their power to take care of this. You're going to understand that, and we're going to move on and have a great time. That would be my only contract in those words.

But that doesn't work, because, again, everyone loves you until there's a problem, right? And their perspective of a problem doesn't make it true or not. When I was in retail my first life, I had a saying for

more than one life, how many? How many lives are you up to now? Pat,

so wish I had a meow.

My my business life before, before I was a photographer, content creator. And it was customers are not always right. You just have to agree with them, yep, and the agreement part was the peaceful side of it, like I understand where your perspective is coming. It's not reality that I live in, but I'm

more than happy to meet you halfway to help out, to figure it out. But yeah, when it, when it comes down to someone who's just at especially in today's crazy environment, everyone is just, they think everyone's out there to scam them, and everyone's super defensive on it, and they're like, Aha, I

caught you. And it's like, you know you didn't, you just didn't listen. And it's right here in the email and, and these are the words we just didn't agree on the definitions of them, apparently, you know, like I offer you this, so you come with that I'm not selling you that. I'm selling you this. So you

told me I'm done. Okay, so, but yeah, so they didn't hire me because the contract was too long and it was, like, too many situations. I'm just like, well, you sign the bottom and not worry about it. It's just there for you. Like, right? I'm gonna show up. I want to do what I do. Like, I'm not here. Like,

respectfully, I don't drive $100,000 car. I'm not in a mansion. I'm just, I'm just a guy with a camera trying to, you know, be the person that one day someone goes, Do you remember that photographer who took these awesome photos? No, but man, what great photos like that's gonna be the legacy I leave

behind is millions of families looking back at their tree and going, Wow, you look so good. What happened to you? And I can't wait for that. I mean, that's what it comes down to.

I will tell you my philosophy of photos. That was the pictures of yourself that has so many people, especially women. I don't know how often it happens with men. Oh, I love terrible. Oh, that's not my best look at that angle. I've got this, that and the other thing, and from over a

decade of working with people and preserving their memories, what I learned was that your loved ones don't care what you look like in a photograph. They don't care what you look like in a video or film. They just want to remember you, because I have had people sit in front of me. I love this sit in front of me and

tears men women didn't matter, tears running down their face. My dad was the one who was always behind the camera. I don't have any images of him. My mom hated the all. Every picture I have is a. Her with her hands in front of her face, and now they're no longer around.

I need a preach sister. That sounds like preach the apple win. We got to do the apple one. There you go. Yeah, that's, that's an apple.

And they say, you know, I just want to be able to see them. And so I created this philosophy for myself, because I know what it's like to have a bad picture and to look at the picture and be like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe they put that online. Really, you couldn't find a more flattering

angle of me, best friend from high school. Do you

see what you just posted on your selfie shot, and you're complaining about that?

So I this is my philosophy. Is that that is what I looked like on that day, in that moment, in that angle to that camera, and I'm okay with it, because ultimately, like it's the legacy what you leave behind. And Erin helps people leave behind beautiful images, but even the ones that we aren't

like, Oh, that was my best that I felt you might even feel really good that day, but the angle of the camera maybe didn't make you look so good. I just had, I just had some pictures taken that that I put Aaron and I were talking about, and I had, I was playing with fire in the desert, and I had these cool

pictures taken and what? I didn't post all of them because some of them, the angles were not totally flattering. But you know what? I'm not ashamed of them either. No, you know, I that that's, that's what I look like in that moment from that angle. And it's just a moment. It's not, it doesn't define your

whole life, and it's so meaningful to the people find

social media though, yeah, you

know, I'm okay with that. Go ahead. Talk about I

have sarcasm. My primary. I love what you just said, because it is my philosophy that, you know, I could curate a perfect picture. I can model you. I can do that. But most people are not models. They don't understand how to move their body. That talks to a lens versus talks to a human

right? When we're sitting here talking to each other, looking like we're right at each other's eyes, we're not looking at the full body. We're not doing anything. We're not judging anything. Judging anything for a long term. When it's a photo, it's a moment that you're actually stopped to engage on

what's going on. And my philosophy behind all this is especially in event photography side of it, right? Beauty, like just in the event conversation. It's so important to be in the moment, because that moment will ultimately bring you back, like I always I said today, this morning, it's my one of my

philosophies is that I'm the closest thing you'll ever get to a time machine. I could give you a photo from 10 years ago, and you're 10 years younger, you're back in high school, you're back at at that park, you're back with your parents, and not only does that picture remind you of what's going on, stories come

alive in your head again. 100% and and I don't I want the perfect, perfect moment when I'm capturing I want that over the top horrible donkey laugh that's coming out of you like in the photo, right? And it's like the teeth are just straight up into the lens, and your eyes are as squinty as possible, and you're

laughing as hard as you can with your friends around you. And you're going to go back to that moment, going, Man, what a fantastic photo, because it was authentic. It was who I was. It was a moment that I remember laughing, yes, you know, we want to curate some beautiful pictures that are just, you

know, picturesque and absolutely, but like, you know, oh my God, family pictures. Oh my god, moms and dads children look at the camera, free, straightforward. It's like, no, let the kids be crazy. They're kids, yeah. Like, it's not gonna be perfect. It shouldn't be perfect life. It's messy and

dirty and and fun and thoughtful and good moments and bad moments. And why do you need an absolutely perfect photo? Like, can I curate it absolutely but it's not you. It's bland, it's boring, it's it Esquire esque, absolutely, yeah, throw some beautiful lighting in there. Absolutely. Oh my god, it's

stunning. But then you'll post that, and then the next one you're posting with a kid picking his boogers and ice cream all over its face. And everyone's like, Oh my God, how awesome is that. And like, you're worried about it getting like, yeah, it's no big deal. Like, like, be in the moment is

so important, I think, with with the verge of AI, and how the world and how we are losing ourselves to the memories. Because I look at back, I'm like, in 20 years from now, when we look back, I. Was that a real photo? Was that not a real photo? Was I really there or not? I don't my autism was

kicked in, I sure. Yeah.

So yeah, and I love what you said about moments, because Facebook will constantly like give me these photos that I posted years ago, and they're my kids, and I look at those pictures, and I'm just, I remember the moment. I remember the joy of that picture. I remember why I posted

it. I remember and I send it to them, and they're like,

I look horrible. Oh my gosh, Mom, why did you put in there? Like,

I don't see it. But I just trolled my wife's Facebook page and found, like, maybe baby photos. I mean, I wish you guys could see this, but, like, I don't know what I was doing,

just goofing around on the grass, I mean, but smiling and laughing, she's making a great face.

I haven't said to my daughter now I'm just like, my gosh, like, I literally just trolled her, her photos. Like, I haven't seen these photos in this is what, 12 years, 13 years. Oh, my daughter looks so awesome. And I was thinner, but I'm getting back there. But it's just whatever, yeah, it's

awesome.

And it's about the moment, though you like. Just remember what that felt like, rolling around, goofing around with your kids, taking pictures. You remember that moment. And I think in our social media, getting likes the visual kind of curated. I have to look this way. I have to be

this they have to portray this image. We forget that that life is about the moment, and enjoying your life is about the moment. How did you feel? And I am one of those people that I will take, I will look at a picture, and if something was happening that was not so pleasant at that moment, I

relive that as well. Yeah, so I'm very much a moments person. When I see images from the past, from my family, oh, that was taken right after we had a big fight.

Or those are the stories, right? And then it leads into the next conversation. And then the beauty of it is when you do it around family, and then all of a sudden, you know, someone comes up with a story that you never heard before, and again, that's that time machine concept of

what I do, and I'm the closest thing that you'll ever get to in our in our lifetime, to a time machine to go back in time and and that's that's my, that's my i From The smallest little thing from, like, doing a ribbon cutting to someone's brand event like that is my mentality always is, like, I'm providing this

family, not the client, the family moments that they won't have again. And like, you know, you asked me before, like, Oh, you just got back from a mitzvah I was in Chicago, and grandma buddy. The name, her nickname is buddy OG buddy, and grandma's buddy so that we have an OG. And then, you know, version 2.0

she's, I think, 93 right? I don't wish it, but the reality is, is she may not make it to the next kid's mitzvah that's eight years from now, right? And I got this gorgeous photo of her and her daughter, and her and and her daughter, and generational photos that are just like, those are the

stories. And, you know, through all the chaos of a day, it's like, we have to get this. We have to do this. We have to get these moments because they're going to be so important to you, not right now, but when the eventual, when it happens.

So I love that you've you've through our conversation, you have weaved this in in many different ways. So talk to us a little bit like really elucidate what is, what is your what is your philosophy and your brand, because, and the reason I'm asking you to do this is because it's so important to

know who you are as an artist. So just say that again for

us. So my, my tagline is, is my breath right? It's, it's artistic storytelling, photography that's modern and bold, and breaking it down is artistic storytelling, photography. So artistic is using creative lighting, using foregrounds backgrounds, finding great ways to take photos in

unique and awesome ways. If it's unique angles, if it's just beautiful portrait work, if it's creative lighting, whatever it is. So artistic storytelling, again, going. Storytelling is, is it's a live event. It's a live moment. Let it be let it curate. Let it be itself. Let all the authenticity of that

moment shine through, so that when you look back, you're going, this was who we were. This was a real moment. This is more important to me today than. Then my Maserati, then my beautiful home. This is my essence that I get the hand down. Modern is just, you know, it's it's modern, it's clean,

it's what we are today. It's the techniques and the technologies that we have available, utilizing into photography world. And bold is because they're just loud and moody, and they make people stop and look and have a conversation, from who you are. Like, I don't photograph landscape. I am bored

of it. I watch people do and I'm like, I could do that. No, I can't. That's so amazing. I think that's beautiful. Like, give me a human and I'll do landscape with a minute. Like, it's just, I want an artistic art piece being developed and created for people, and I want that art to live on the wall. I

want it to be a centerpiece. I don't want it stuck on a digital format, which everyone's so used to. I want a beautiful, large piece of art that is you, that's your family, that's your centerpiece. So when someone comes in, oh my gosh, look at that art. Like, that's beautiful. Like, I've never seen

a picture like that, and it's a piece of art that makes people think thoughtful concepts of who they are, when that moment was and so on. So, yeah, artistic, storytelling, photography, that's modern and bold. Love it. I love that. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. And I used AI to come up with that. By the

way, AI is useful for some things Aaron intelligence,

that I don't know how useful that is. I don't know how useful

chat I'm like, No, my intelligence all up here. You're powered by AI Aaron intelligence.

There we go. This is where I'm going for all my AI stuff. Now without a doubt,

please hold as I register your information chat.

Oh, that's great. But yes, I love that you have a clear vision. You know who you are, you know what you do. And if someone came to you and said, Hey, come photograph the leaves for me up in the mountains, you're gonna be like, That's not, that's not what I do. Nope. And that's

Michael Gilman.

So that's what, what's really important about knowing who you are and knowing what you do and having a very clear point of view and not being everything to everybody is that you It enables you to say yes and no. It's a really easy No. When someone comes to Aaron and says, Hey, I got I want to

go up to the mountains and photograph some leaves, that's a really easy no for him.

But it's not anymore, because I own a business. Yes, I say absolutely, and I send Michael Gilman to do that for me. Yes, he is amazing landscape photographer that does my portraits and does everything, but like, That's my guy who does that type of work, right? So, can I go take photos

of leaves? Absolutely, do I want to? No,

yes, and you're not making my point for me.

But what my turn? It's just gonna mute me.

Nope, no, that was my mute me. Not one back. Now you're muted. I try to be nice. I try to be nice. Go ahead, I'm staring at you

buttons to push. The important thing about knowing who you are and what you do is, is the ability to say no. And if you have somebody else that, that's a great business angle. But you know, it so many times you just you can't say, you feel like you can't say no. Oh, that's money. Oh, that's,

you know, it's a job. It's if you're not, if you if you need to say no, and you say, Hey, I'm not, you know, like my husband does, you know, I don't do baby. You don't do babies. You don't, you don't farm out babies. We don't sub high babies

once. And I will never do a baby photo shoot. And I mean, like, Baby, baby, like, like, when it just came out, baby, yeah,

so baby photos, you know you can say, no. You can say, sorry, that's not what I do. It just gives you so much power to be able to say, if you really are clear about who you are and what you do, that gives you the opportunity, because then you don't feel guilty about it. You've created this. You've

designed this, this. These are your parameters, because especially when people are starting out, and especially, you know, whenever you say yes to everything as you're learning, but there'll be a common point where you're like, that's not my thing, and and then you you refer someone else,

or you build a business where you actually are bringing in other people, and you can say yes to those. So that was my point,

and I agree with your point fully 100% that I think the hardest thing as a creative when there's money on the table, and are you working from starving as far as money? And they always say you're starving artists. So you know, when there's money on the table, we find ourselves 10. Making

jobs that we get done, but they actually hurt your presence down the road, because is done well enough, but not professional, and not where, what the person really wanted to or not most likely. And I've gone through that, I still go through that. It's like, I know I have a skill set. I can do that, and

sometimes I want to challenge myself on doing something so, like, for me, like, when I'm doing branding work for a company, I think that's one of the most challenging things for me, because, like, I want the brand to be within my style, but as a brand photographer, I have to be able to shoot in multiple

styles, because my logo is not first. When I'm shooting for a brand, it's the company's logo that matters, so being able to balance that absolutely but saying no is the hardest thing and the most powerful thing, and it really is, God, it really is so fun to say, no, it's like, it's like you arrived when you

could look at some and be like, hey, thanks. But no, that's that's just not what I'm going to do. And let me, let me provide customer service and tell you go to X, Y and Z. They, they will knock this out of the park for you. But thank you for thinking of me. And when you have other projects, come back

to me.

Yeah, yeah. And that's a great way to handle it is, is it that this is not the job for me? And, you know, come back around but, but so many people, especially creatives, will just Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, to the point that it's, it's not it's, it's no longer helpful. It's no longer healthy

for them, for their business, no, because you just have to, you know, like, we had someone come in one time, and he's like, oh, I want you to do this job for me, and here's how much money I'm going to pay you. And I said, Great, thank you. We would love to have your business. This is how much we

charge. And he was like, Oh, well, I just thought I was, you know, doing you a favor. And, and I said, Well, you know, thank you. I really appreciate that. You're, you're thinking of us. However, this is the process that we use. It's very high quality we give you, you know, explain the whole thing. And I

said, and this is the price that we charge. And he looked at me, and he goes, Well, you know, whenever I had my business and he did structural since it's something in construction, he said, I you know, I only used a certain quality of steel beam. There were many options. These were the only ones that I used.

So I understand. And he ended up not doing the job with us, and that's totally fine, but you got to get to that point where you say, you know, this is because of the quality I'm giving, because of the service that I'm providing. This is, this is, this is the level at which we are working. Could we go retro,

back and do something that's not the quality that you know, that you know, just to get this guy's job? Sure? We wouldn't. We would still do it at the quality we're doing it. We're just now not charging the prices. So you have to get to that point in your business where you understand what it is you're doing, what

quality you're giving, and and where you can say no and be and be authentic within your

brand. So we talked about, like the business side of of being a creative at the end of the day, there's always jobs out there. But are they your people? Right? Are they the ones that are going to truly appreciate and get you the next one, or are they just someone who found you and said, Oh, I

need this done, and it's just it's not going to grow your business, it's not going to grow your potential. And I think that's always the hardest part in growing as a as an owner, right, is saying no to people that aren't your jam, that aren't going to help you grow, and being part of the community

that you're trying to go after. And you know, like, again, I mean, I see it all the time. I see I see photographers that I question on how did they get hired for this job? Why are they doing this? And I see the quality at the end of it, and I'm not trying to bad mouth anyone. I'm just saying they

were there. They took on a job they shouldn't have, or they under priced themselves, and they did a misjustice to the to the person buying them, because they thought they were getting a decent deal where they don't get the product on the back end of it. Ultimately, I just, I don't know where I'm going with, Scott

lost it. It's gone. It's gone. It's gone.

Where's the it's gone. Music,

perfect. Seems exactly where I was going with I think the ultimate side is everyone's going to find your client. Yes, your client will make your job as a creative the happiest thing. They will go to the moon and back for you. And don't just take a job, take a job. I get the money side of it.

I've been there, done that. I'd be a hypocrite to say. I've never done that before, and I'm not going to be one of those, but find your clients, and your clients will sing your praises, and you'll grow,

yeah, and as you're starting out, sometimes you you do have you do take in everything, because you're finding your voice, you got to figure out who your customers are and who's going to you gotta fail before you win. Who's gonna allow you to be a weirdo on set?

No, no one got up one day and started walking. They had a crawl. They had a fall. Like, no one just got up and like, I'm gonna be Usain Bolt. No one, yeah, no, that's

absolutely, absolutely, that's an errand. Ism this has been super fun, and thank you for making

this a playtime. Oh, my god, yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming out to horror logic. I want to do a quick shout out, just to be selfish. So horror Lodge is our creative studio. It's a white label studio designed for any creative or business to come in and do all their needs, from

podcasting to video shoots to photography to just sales meetings. We have a great, unique space that is transformable. Is that a word? Transformable? Transformational? Transformational? Yes, we'll go with that one. But yeah, check that out loud. Studios.com we are right off of 540 right here

on the border of Fuquay, Varina and Raleigh, yeah, and Holly Springs were like, triangle

didn't, yeah. And it's beautiful space. It really is. It's incredible. And, yeah, if you're local to here, I mean, I suppose you could travel across the country and use your studio. Would that be possible?

So we've had people from Ohio, we've had people from Colorado in here, we've had people from England and Europe. They shot YouTube videos and productions inside the house. So, yeah, if you're in North Carolina, you need a place, that's what it is. That's horrible studios. But if you

need photography, VMA studios, yeah, awesome. Well, thank you. I do both. It does both. Yes, we everything we try to do is somewhat steps on another step that's part of the same staircase. So if it's like I said, content creation, if it's just my experience on how to market, I've worked with

marketing companies and individuals. I have marketing companies that I work with that in New York and of Miami. So just wealth of knowledge that I love to give out and just see people get successful from our artwork,

awesome. I really do appreciate you listening to the profit connections podcast. We invite you to join our community. It's the profit connectors dot club. Go to profit connectors dot club, because you're the ones making the connections and making the money. So profit

connectors dot c, l, u, B, and you can get all of the gifts from our previous guests. You can get gifts from anything that I've given out. All of that information is all at profit connectors dot club. So going check that out and get your goodies. Remember, this is the your impact. Go out and make it

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