174: Six Strategies Before Your Finances Catch Fire – Financial Fire Drill for Law Firm Owners with Frank Rekas

One of the questions I'd love to ask you, because you're really great networker, and networking equals sales, maybe talk to folks a little bit about some of your basic rules and principles that are great for filling your sales funnel.

Networking is not going to an event and collecting 25 cards and contacting all those people networking to me is, you know, if you can get a copy of a list, or know who's going to be there, great if you can find out who is actually leading the event, and maybe ask them who are some of the important people, like two or three people that I definitely want to meet. Maybe you can help introduce me to them and finding those three people that you want to at least start a conversation with, develop a relationship with the cocktail event I do. I'd like to do at least one a quarter. I call it legally connected. It's for law firm owners, attorneys, people who work in the legal space. And it can be as intimate as eight people. I've had 15 people show up, and there's no pressure on anything other than people to meet other people and develop relationships. And I market that on LinkedIn, and I do send some personal invites to people, and I'm not there selling anything. There was one time I gave away some books because I had three copies of a book that I forget how I got that. So a couple people got a book when they came. But it's those events, kind of things that allowing you to get out there and meet other people.

Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever time this podcast finds you listening. Welcome to the 10 golden rules, Internet Marketing for law firms. Podcast got a great guest today become a good friend of mine, Frank rikas, and we're going to do the law firm owner's financial fire drill, six strategies to prepare before your finances catch fire. And Frank and I work on a bunch of stuff together, and he works with a bunch of law firms, so you're going to love it. But for our regular listeners, we always have one short commercial. And I want to talk to you a little bit about tgr live growth strategies for law firms, which is our annual conference. We're booked and locked in for March 16 and 17th. 2026, now, Frank, you've been there, right?

Absolutely, it's a great event. And if you're a law firm owner and working in the legal space. I want to see you there.

And what I wanted to talk about today was something special that we do for newbies. So it'll be your first time at this conference, or if you haven't been to a lot of conferences, or you don't know everybody in the legal space, I've been there before. Five or six years ago, when we started working only with law firms, and I started going to all the legal conferences. I'd go to a lot of conferences, and I only knew one or two people there, and it's a little awkward, like we knew the newbie at a conference. So we've got three or four different things we're going to do so that you feel immediately a part of everybody. You join the click right away. First of all, we're going to have ambassadors, and Frank's actually going to be one of our ambassadors. We have 10 people who are some of the most well known people in the industry, and they are going to be charged with making introducing you to everybody else, making you feel like you're part of the club, sitting with your breakfast, sitting with your lunch, inviting you to some of the dinners we're going to be organizing, so you're going to feel immediately welcomed and immediately at home as a part of the 10 golden rules extended family. The second thing we do is before the first break. So the first morning, we have a couple keynote presentations, and before the first break we're going to have speed networking. And everyone's like, Oh, I hate networking, right? And then we line everybody up sitting across from each other, like speed dating, and immediately everyone's excited. Oh, I'm meeting people, and this is easy, and all I have to do is tell them my name, my company and what's a great introduction for me. And then, before the lunch break, we do the second it'll be the third annual World Championship, tangled and rolls Rock Paper Scissors competition, and that gets everyone together, and everyone has fun. The volume in the room goes up. So I promise you, by lunch the first day, you're going to know

four or five people, and you're going to feel like you're part of this extended community. And more importantly, if you're looking to meet people in specific categories, if you're looking for help with your law firm, if you're a vendor and you're looking to meet lawyers, you're going to meet a bunch of people. Right off the bat, as I said, a short ad that wasn't short, but definitely look forward to seeing you all at tgr live. There's a link right on our homepage at 10 Golden rules.com and lots more information will be coming out. We've announced the first five speakers. We're going to go with another five or so in the next couple of weeks. Super excited. It's an awesome event. I have a lot of fun, but I promise you, everybody else does. And with that Frank Welcome to the 10 golden rules Internet Marketing for law firms podcast.

Thank you, Jay for having me. It's been great getting to know you more and better. The last little while, and I am honored to be on this podcast, one of the ones that I listen to that's in my rotation.

Yeah, I love it when I have a podcast listener. So you know, all the things that are coming up, all the questions, the first question I always ask is, I'd love to know a little bit about your story and how you got into the business you're in today.

So I'm originally from Chicago, which that's the background behind me that is on all of my virtual meetings, because a little piece of my heart is still there. But I started working my first job was working at a hardware store. I ultimately became the manager after being a sock boy, and did that for about seven, eight years, and got tired of it, and came home one day and got a letter in the mail from an insurance company that was looking for someone to hire. And I literally put that in the trash can that was in the kitchen, and my soon to be wife came home and looked at it and said, What's that about? And I said, I don't know. They probably want to interview me for some sales position. And she says, Well, if nothing else, you'll practice your interview skills. Why don't you just go? I went four months later I started. So that was over 30 years ago. I've been in financial services for that long, and as of last September, my business partner and I joined an independent financial planning firm. And I can't tell you how much of a breath of fresh air that is, and how much I really now I'm enjoying my career and profession more than ever before.

Yeah, it's tough with some of the big financial services companies, because everything needs approval, and there's so little you could do for marketing and even social media, right?

Yeah, and I'm, unfortunately, one of those people that like to ask for forgiveness, not for permission. So, but I follow the rules, but I like to see if we can stretch certain things within reason. Of course,

that's fantastic. One of the questions I'd love to ask you, because you're really great networker, and networking equals sales. Maybe talk to folks a little bit about some of your basic rules and principles that are great for filling your sales funnel. And you know, this is maybe for the attorneys. This is about, we call it rain making where they want to make a turn. They want to get attorney referrals. They want to get business to business referrals. You know less so about the consumer marketing piece.

My initial, I guess, experience with networking, I used to think was going to my daughter's events, softball, volleyball, basketball, whatever she was playing, and talking to the parents, and that really wasn't enough, and I didn't really do it very well, and I used to get angry at myself because I wasn't opening up any conversations that talked about what it was that I do. So it took me a while to really learn how to network, and after I got my divorce and I moved to the Boca area, I needed to get out there and meet people, but networking is not going to an event, and collecting 25 cards and contacting all those people. Networking, to me is, you know, if you can get a copy of a list or know who's going to be there, great if you can find out who is actually leading the event, and maybe ask them who are some of the important people, like two or three people that I definitely want to meet. Maybe you can help introduce me to them, and finding those three people that you want to at least start a conversation with, develop a relationship with. And over the years, I think I've done pretty good with that and getting to know people on a more personal level, not just for business, but for social because at this day and age, I think it's important to get to know people's backgrounds. Why are you in the profession that you're in? What drives you to do what you do? But what are your hobbies? If you like hockey or baseball, you and I are going to get along really, really well. So it's not going into a networking event for sales specifically, because I think if you do that, you're going to rub people the wrong way. It is about developing the relationship. I'm not about transactions. I don't want a one time transaction. I really want a lifelong relationship with the people that I work with.

And you host a cocktail party, you're involved in some networking groups. Maybe phrase it from what works for you and what could attorneys use to generate these kind of opportunities for themselves?

So yeah, the cocktail event I do, I'd like to do at least one a quarter. I call it legally connected. It's for law firm owners, attorneys, people who work in the legal space. And it can be as intimate as eight people. I've had 15 people show up, and there's no pressure on anything other than people to meet other people and develop relationships. And I market that on LinkedIn, and I do send personal invites to people, and I'm not there selling anything. There was one time I gave away some books because I had three copies of. A book that I forget how I got that. So a couple people got a book when they came but it's those events, kind of things that allowing you to get out there and meet other people. And I'm involved like Jay, with a number of different networking groups. Provisors is one of them, and that's very attorney heavy. So it's great for me, it's obviously great for Jay, and I always try to find a networking group where I think the people that I want to work with, that's those are the kind of groups that I want to be at. I do some volunteer work at my church. I'm president of our men's group, and we also have a festival every year, and I work the entire four days of that festival, because I want to be out amongst the people. I want to see clients and friends and also meet new people. So you got to get out there and make yourself visible.

So many people go to like a BNI. And by the way, most attorneys you should be in a BNI, and if you won't do it, there's a young attorney in your shop who should definitely be going and that that's once a week, and a B and I is Business Network International, and typically there's going to be the air conditioning guy and the local real estate guy and the title attorney and 14 other professions. If anyone in the room knows someone who's getting a divorce, if you're a divorce lawyer, if anyone in the room knows someone who's in a car accident, your BI they're going to refer you, because everybody's super invested in everybody else in the room, success and provisors is a similar group. It's on a national footprint, and it has more lawyers. It's about 50% lawyers and professionals, and there's not really any local air conditioning guys or, you know, plumbers or things like that. So if one of these groups seems like a fit for you, I definitely highly recommend it. And then, as Frank said, you know, you can't just show up, like once a month of provisors and just wait for the checks to roll in. Frank talked really, really eloquently about getting to know people, having the one on one meetings, they have a monthly cocktail party or an annual Christmas parties are all coming up, and you've gotta go to those things, get there early and spend time with people, get to know them. And there's a term, know, like and trust, you really gotta get to know something about them, and they've gotta get to know you. And what's going to take six to 12 months until you've been through the cycle a few times. You've had lunch with someone, you've had a one on one with them. And provisors, they call it a Troy go, where three people go for lunch or a coffee. I've got my provisors Troy con Friday, and you start to build a relationship with these folks and really get to know them. Frank and I have probably had six or eight in person, touches, been to teach our lives,

supported stuff we're doing. Vice versa. We've sent each other some business. We're actually going with a group for lunch tomorrow. So now our relationship has gone from Oh yeah, there's this financial guy in our group, to really knowing who would be a good fit for them, and being able to send really good recommendations. So I think that's probably as valuable as content as we can share, but we've got six strategies to prepare before your finances catch fire, the law firm owner's financial fire drill. So I don't want to belabor the point too much on networking. I want you to get into the financial fire drill. Frank, what's the first strategy to prepare before your finance could catch fire?

So one of the first things that we talk about with people, and I'll guess, I'll refer to this also as the six L's. The first is liquidity. Do we have access to or sufficient access to capital for things like emergencies? The roof needs to be fixed. I need $35,000 to fix my roof. Where is that going to come from? Taxes are due? Oh my gosh. I owe $65,000 in taxes because I had such a great year and my quarterlies weren't high enough. I need to pay taxes. So we want to make sure that we have funds available that are not going to hurt us from our financial future. You don't want to get money from your retirement plan to pay for these things, because you'll get taxed and you'll get the early withdrawal penalty if you're under 59 and a half. And what I'm doing with more and more of my law firm clients is, let's build a separate account that's just for taxes. Let's figure out how much we need to put away so that come each quarter, you have money to send to the IRS, and it's not choking you, it's not making you nervous, because, listen, nobody likes to pay taxes. What's worse is when you don't have the funds to pay for them, and putting them on a credit card, that's not a solution. Borrowing from your 401, K, that's not a solution. So that's the first thing we look at, and when it comes to expenses, we like to say three to six months of living. Expenses should be set aside for you in the event there is some sort of emergency where your cash flow is restricted, or cases aren't coming in, and your income kind of hits a bit of a wall. Great.

That's number one. What's the second strategy to prevent the finances catching fire.

So number two, and this is probably one of the least talked about, situations in a person's working life, and I come from a background of protection. I come from a background of insurance is long term disability. So can we afford to live on a fraction or zero income, if we get sick or hurt and can't go to work and everybody, when I ask some people this question, I'll say, so, okay, what do you think is your most valuable asset? Most people say,

Oh, my God, my business. My business. Yeah,

or your business, right? But actually it's your ability to get up, go to work and earn a living. So if you're an attorney and you're 35 years old, you're making $200,000 a year currently, by the time you're 65 that's $6 million if my math is right, and that's not counting in your income. Is that $6 million protected? We protect our home, we protect our car, we protect our boats, we protect our life, our health. Are we protecting the one thing that is going to feed and fund all of those other things? So long term disability protection is something that is extremely important for people, so that if or when a situation happens to you that you're going to be able to continue on with your life, and honestly, and I tell this to everyone, I hope you never use it. I hope you never need it, because it would be a tough situation for you to be in. But when you do need it, it's going to be there, because the last phone call I want from a spouse is, Hey, Frank, I know you and my husband or my wife talked about this. Unfortunately, there's been an accident, unfortunately, there's been an illness. We talked about this long term disability product. Did you ever put that in place? I don't ever want to say we talked about it, and no, we didn't. That's the last conversation I want to have. So when I came into the industry, that was the first thing I bought, was Long Term Disability Insurance.

That's a great one. And I just heard from my buddy last night. We were very worried about him, because he was going down some stairs and he was carrying a box and he missed a step and ended up going head over teapot, or he calls it something like that. But thank God he's back at his computer, and he's gonna be he's gonna be fine with some rehab, but he was really worried when he was at the bottom of the stairs. Would he even be able to type? Because body parts were sticking out in weird angles so all he could see? Yeah. So that's great. Number two, long term disability. Number three,

number three, this is the one that nobody wants to talk about, but loss of life. People say they don't believe in insurance. People say I don't need it now. People say I'll buy it later. I've heard in all my years, I heard all of the excuses. And look, when you're younger, you're never going to be healthier. It's never going to be as inexpensive as it is at that age, because as we get older, things happen to us. Our health could deteriorate. We develop an illness. Doesn't necessarily prevent us from working, maybe, but or we have an injury, or we have something that affects us, qualifying for the absolute best rate. And this last 90 days alone, I've had some very interesting situations with people who aren't as healthy as they thought. Aren't as healthy as I expected them to be. And after getting into some of their situations, all of a sudden buying insurance is not so easy anymore. So this is something that people tend to wait a long time for, and you really shouldn't, because, again, it's less expensive when you're younger, and it's a lot easier to get and you can buy life insurance, depending on the carrier that we work with, you might be able to get two or $3 million of coverage without going through lab work. If you qualify, because most attorneys, almost all attorneys, you're all very busy. I get it. You don't want to spend time having a nurse come over, draw your blood, ask you all these questions. Well, there are companies that will be able to do this for you, just by filling out an application. And in many cases, I've been able to get people their life insurance in three four days, and they're covered. It's a few things that qualify you. There's a couple things that will disqualify you from that, but at least know that that is an option. But again, you're protecting your human life value. So again, you're still kind of protecting your. Come because if you're not there, can your family stay in that same world that they're used to living

in? And I've heard people say, well, we can sell the house and they can move. Alright, imagine taking your kids and now putting them into a different environment, a different school. We got to make friends all over again. Is that something that you really want to do? Does your family really want to downsize. So if you can keep them in their own world, you'll be remembered a lot better, and they'll be appreciated a lot better because you did that.

Yeah, yeah, we all know that one for sure. So number three is loss of life. Number four

long term care, and this is something that I've experienced with my mom and my aunt, my business partner, experienced it with her father and her stepfather. The first question is, does it make sense to self fund? Now, what do I mean by self fund? You might have $2 million of retirement assets. Are you willing to set aside $400,000 each for you and your spouse for the potential of long term care expenses. Now, where does that number come from? It's what we spent on my mom and Aunt over about a four year period for home health care and about two months of nursing home care for my mom. Everybody who thinks they have a long term care policy thinks they're jinxing themselves. No, you're not. What you're doing is you're protecting the assets that you worked hard for to build up and save and to potentially leave for your heirs if there's any left. But being in a situation where your retirement dollars are being eroded because you didn't plan for this, you end up leaving. You could end up leaving next to nothing. And this is another one of those things where I hope you never need it, but when you do, you know that you have a plan, that what we've done is we've transferred the risk. And there's different ways now to buy Long Term Care protection. It used to be you bought what we would call a standalone policy. It would cover you for expenses at home, in a nursing home, adult daycare, all assisted living facility. But the most common objection was, well, prank, if I never use this, I kind of threw my money away, right? There's other ways to buy it now, with hybrid policies that are attached to life insurance, hybrid policies that are attached to annuity so that in the event you don't use it, or you don't use all of it, there's still going to be some sort of benefit left for your family. But long term care is the protection of your assets, and that's really how you have to look at it, and it's also when it does happen. I say this to everybody as well long

term care. And event of long term care is it's emotionally draining, it's mentally draining. It doesn't have to be financially draining. If it makes sense for you to actually put coverage in place, then that is the thing to do. And people will say, well, at what age should I do this? Should I wait till my late 50s and early 60s, absolutely not. So it'll cost more, and you potentially have health issues that will maybe prevent you from getting it, or prevent you from getting what we'll call the best offer possible.

Yeah, it's, I think it's one of the realities that a lot of people in my world now are dealing with. So once you get to 50 plus, you've got friends and family who are all dealing with it. And like when we were kids, we didn't really understand what our parents were dealing with, with grandma and grandpa or aunt and uncle, great aunt and great uncle. But now I'm seeing it with everybody, and certainly an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So that's definitely one of them. Definitely something you want to get on that list. So we've got we've got through four. We got number five.

So number five is longevity. And while long term care does play into this a little bit, what we're looking for here is, do we have enough to fund our long term spending? We work maybe for 30 years, and because medical technology and medicine is so good now you some people retire at 6065 you could be living another 30 years. So do we have enough income or enough money saved up to support the income that we need right? Health insurance doesn't necessarily stop. Yes, it maybe looks different because of Medicare and Medicare supplement plans. Are you going to travel? How much are you going to travel? What is your hobby going to be? Golf, tennis, pickleball, whatever it is, but your income is going to be predicated on how much you have actually put away. So it's not necessarily, what's my number like, how much do I need as a overall number? Like, I need 2 million. I need 3 million. I need 5 million. It's what do you. Need to live on. What are your living expenses going to be? So we back into it with that number, and then we also add in what else are you going to do for yourself, or for fun, for excitement? Because probably older generations, this might be a situation where they get to retirement and they're afraid to spend their money because they want to leave it behind. That's because things when they grew up were difficult for their parents. Things were difficult for them. They don't want it to be difficult for them in their retirement years, so they become nervous or scared about spending their retirement dollars. You want to enjoy your life, so yes, work hard for it, save, invest, put money away. But when you get to the point where you're done working, or you're going to slow down from working, enjoy your life, sometimes it doesn't pay to wait to take that fancy Mediterranean cruise or go on that European vacation when you're older, because you may not be able to the longevity piece is really knowing what you're going to need to spend

on an annual basis, and we'll work into it based on that.

I'm going to guess, is number six the bucket list, or is that part of the longevity piece?

Well, number six really is, what's your legacy? What are you going to leave behind? How do you want to be remembered? But more importantly, what's your legal situation? Have you done and created a will? Have you created your trust? Have you created your health care power of attorney? Who is your power of attorney, if you have children, who are the guardians of your children, if something happens to you, is your business protected? And how is your business set up? If you're a sole proprietor, are you operating as a sole proprietor, or have you established an S corporation? These are different things that you want to discuss with a CPA, with an estate planning and a business planning attorney, and I do help facilitate that. I don't draft those documents. I don't file any tax returns. That's something that I prefer to stay away from. But you would be surprised how many people out there don't have the legal part of their financial situation set up. And sometimes people say, Well, my will will take care of it, or it's in my will. A will is not enough. Will just basically says, How do you want things to be dispersed? A tip, if I can leave one here, is on your life insurance and your retirement plans, please don't leave a minor as a beneficiary, children under the age of 18, if they are the sole survivor, if they're named as a beneficiary, they get their money based upon a court decision, health, education and welfare. And honestly, do you really want to leave an 18 year old a million dollars might not be around for too long. They'll go on a big spending spree. That money's gone. Yeah, exactly, parties, a car, whatever, but check your beneficiaries to make sure even a contingent beneficiary should not be a minor. Think of someone, and if you don't know of someone, then speak to an attorney and draft a trust where everything will fall into that and then the trust will then determine how that money gets dispersed. Awesome.

Well, Frank, those were great. I took a couple notes. I'm going to say each of the six, and then maybe you can give us, like, one or two words on each one so we get through this quickly. So the law firm owner's financial fire drill, six strategies to prepare before your finances catch fire. Number one is planning for emergencies. Pretty straightforward, right? Either the roof leak or pretty straight, yeah, we really can't ask too much to that paying for taxes, but better that you plan in advance for your taxes. Number two is long term disability. Protect your income. Protect your income. Number three is loss of life insurance, yep. Number four is long term care, protect your assets. Number five is longevity,

grow your wealth,

and number six is your legacy. Have it in writing. I want to be remembered. I like that line, Frank, this was great. So Frank's a regular listener of the 10 Golden Rose podcast, so I'm sure he's familiar with our short one liners. We've been doing these for many, many years. Frank, what's an app or technique you use for personal productivity?

Lately, I have been using chat, GPT and Claude quite a bit for helping me develop my business plan for next year, and I've been feeding it different sorts of questions and information that I've learned from a few different sources. That's what I'm going to recommend. Now I asked it to challenge me, right? And ask me some really tough questions that either a I'm not thinking of. Out more that are not you know, I don't want softball questions. I want tough questions.

And Frank's a really good networker. So what's your number one networking too.

Find out who are the people that you should meet and meet with them. But when they ask you, what do you do? Don't give them your title. Give them something that you solve. What's the problem that you solve for people that are either in that industry, in that niche, or the one thing that you do that makes you stand out?

That's a great tip. And here's a pro tip, building on Frank's tip, if you go to an event, we go to these provisors events, and they're great. Lot of times they'll merge two or three groups together and have a cocktail party, or, I think this week is the whole South Florida provisors cocktail party. And what I'll ask one of the organizers is, who are the players in the room, who are the really good connectors, who are the really good networks, and they'll immediately pull you over to two or three people and introduce you. And that's a way to shortcut the hard work of trying to meet everyone in the room and figure out who you should have a follow up meeting with, because the kind of connectors, the kind of people who are like Frank, who are great at networking, putting people together, they host cocktail parties, they know the value of making introductions, those are the kind of folks you want to meet and then have a follow up one on one with after the meeting. Yep.

Excellent point. That's great. Do

you have a personal wellness and fitness routine?

So I wake up around 530 every day, even on the weekend, once the body clock is just used to it, I try to do about five minutes a while called poor meditation, and then I'll do a little bit of journaling, and then I either do a 45 minute workout, or I'll do a three and a half a three mile walk. I try to do the walk maybe twice a week, and then I do the workout for maybe five times.

That sounds very whole life. I love that. One best business books. I'm going

to recommend two unreasonable hospitality by will gagara Love, I think anybody that's in a service business, you have to read that book. Might want to read it twice, not consecutively, but it's a really good book on how to take care of customers. And the other one is buy back your time by Dan Martell. As law firm owners and as individual or business owners, we can waste a lot of time doing things that we shouldn't be doing, and that's where we become, what's the phrase? We become a bottleneck, and you need to have other people doing those things so you could focus on what your specialties are. I don't ever want to see a law firm owner writing checks to pay their vendors or pay their employees. That's not what you should be doing.

Was definitely the Book of the Year. I read it in 25 or maybe near the end of 24 but it's definitely the hottest recommendation most folks are coming up with. Definitely recommend both those books, blogs, podcasts and youtubes. What do you subscribe to? And when it hits your feed, you stop everything and you listen to

10 golden rules. Hey, you

got the correct answer? Yeah,

I've got a bunch on my rotation, but the top ones, I listen to a lot of legal podcasts. Why? Because law firm owners are my clients, and I want to see the struggles and the successes that they're going through. But one of my favorites is they don't teach this in law school by Charlie Mann. Charlie's great always listen to that. For my industry, there's one that I listen to called do business, do life, and it talks about how you can mesh your life and your business together, not that there's a balance, because I don't know that you ever find balance. It's just life. And then the third one that I listen to a lot, whether it's on the Apple podcast or YouTube, is Dan Martell, called the Dan Martell method. He's got some very, very unique ideas for business success, and he's got a few great ones on how to use AI. So those are my, my top three

awesome love it. And we know your Chicago guy, you said hockey and baseball. So it's obviously Black Hawks. Black Hawks looking pretty good this year. You know, young team coming up, right?

Yeah, definitely an improvement. Wild Card possibility in the playoffs. Maybe I'll hold on to that as long as I can.

Connor Bernard's on fire, and Spencer Knight looks like he's the real deal and goal, right?

Yeah, for sure, getting Spencer Knight was that was a big deal, and Connor Bedard just looks like a completely different player this year. Looks like he's growing up. So that's good to see. Yeah.

Well, it's the sophomore Jinx. Was real in Chicago last year. Oh, yeah, definitely. And so, you know, there's only one question remaining, cubs are white.

Sox. Oh, cubs. I lived on the north side, so it's just natural to be a Cub fan.

See how he narrowed that down, right? You said baseball and hockey and now the hockey team. So last two questions. What's a great introduction for you? If someone's listening to this and they think, oh, man, this. Frank guy is smart. Who do you want to meet?

I want to be proactive CPAs. And when I say proactive, I mean proactive CPAs that are looking at ways to save their clients on tax strategies, because that's one of the areas that I can come in, as well as a law firm owner who's complaining about the amount of taxes that they're paying, or they just feel financially disorganized, that's probably the best. And as far as working with the law firm owners solos up to about a firm size of 25 or 30 good one.

And I encourage folks to send people to Frank. And so, of course, the last question, Where can people get in touch with you?

Alright, so we have a website, www dot Paul wealth partners. You can find me on LinkedIn, not all day, but I'm there every day. And you can reach out to me via my cell number, which I'm happy to give out, 954-253-5508,

awesome. And those will all be in the show notes. Frank, this was a lot of fun. I learned a whole bunch more. And actually, here's another pro tip, you want to want to be a great network or do a podcast, because if you ask almost anyone, Hey, you want to be on my podcast? You know, with six or 12 months of doing your show, it's going to have a lot of listeners, and it's going to have a lot of viewers, if you do it on video, and then it's a great way to get to know people like I've met phenomenal, well known, regarded people. Jason Calacanis now has the number one podcast of the all in podcast, and he was on my show when he was doing a startup. We've had some amazing guests on our podcast through the early years and through to today, Frank, so thank you very much for doing this.

Thanks for having me, Jay, and it's been a pleasure getting to know you better, and I'm honored and humbled to be here and look forward to seeing you in the neighborhood soon.

All right. Well, thanks, buddy. Thank you.