142: Ten Golden Rules of High-Impact Leadership from Catalytic Leadership’s Dr. William C. Attaway

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: Are you busy doing the things that are going to move the needle if you're a business owner or practice owner, are you leveraging your time and your resources on income producing activities or IPAs, or are you allowing other people to set your priorities and simply being reactionary in your calendar so you're just responding to everybody else's wants and needs. That is what I see most often. To be proactive, is to determine ahead of time what your priorities are going to be. To pre decide. This is what I do every week. In my weekly review, I pre decide what my priorities for the week are, and I time block and prioritize my week accordingly.

You do your own Weekly Review.

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: I do

of yourself.

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: I do

so what does that exercise loo k like? I love that

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: I usually do this on Sunday evenings, and the first part of it is I look back over the previous seven days and I ask three questions, what are the wins that I can celebrate? And I write them down in my wins journal. This becomes a knowledge base over time. What are the wins I can celebrate? Second question, where did I swing and miss this week? Where did I swing and miss? We all have those things that we try that don't work, or those things that we do when we fail. Where did I swing and miss? Third question, what would I do different next time when I'm in a similar situation in the future, how would I handle that differently? What would I say differently? What would I do differently? What would I believe differently? And I process that learning all the way through, so that the next time I'm in a similar situation, I've already processed the learning. I know what I'm going to do in that situation. I've pre decided that's the first part of the weekly review. Well,

good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever time this podcast finds you. Welcome to the 10 golden rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast. Great, awesome, incredible to have you with us today. We've got a great guest. We'll get to a doctor Attaway in just two seconds. I wanted to share a request that I find in one of my top, maybe top 10, top 20 podcasts, used to be called MF CEO. It's now called Real AF and Andy Priscilla says there's no ads on this podcast. I do this. It takes a lot of time. I do it completely for free, but there is a charge, there is a toll, and that tool is, if you like the content, please share it with someone who you think could get value out of it. I'm an iTunes guy for audio, a YouTube guy, but there's a Share button on both your iTunes and your YouTube. So think of someone, if you get through this content, you love it, and you will because we're going to cover 10 amazing golden rules today, then please share it with someone who you think could benefit from the content. So with that, I want to welcome Dr William Attaway from catalytic leadership to the 10 golden rules podcast. Dr Attaway, welcome aboard,

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: Jay. It's such an honor to be here. Thanks for having me. We

recently hung out at a conference, actually, at my mastermind that I attend, called the seven figure agency in the Titans. And Dr Attaway has been a speaker. And is it okay if I call you, William, 100% please, dude. I got so formal there for a minute, and we sat together two days in a row at lunch, we got to talking about a lot of incredible things that he does for clients, because he's really a business consultant and a leadership coach, and I'm probably doing it a disservice. But he answered some questions for me and other people at the table, and I said, could we do this, especially about lawyers? And he said, Well, we can, except lawyers are really business leaders, so we're going to generalize it. So we brainstormed a little bit, and we came up with the 10 golden rules of leadership, or the 10 golden rules of catalytic leadership. So this is like a hybrid podcast today of Dr attaways best coaching and maybe a few ideas that I've learned as we coach clients all day, every day before we get into the polls. Let's take a minute tell us about your journey. Tell us how you became a coach to very successful businesses.

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: It starts for me way back. I've been coaching leaders and teams for almost 30 years now, and that came out of my journey. I started in corporate, worked there, began to realize that people were not really trained and equipped to lead teams. Well, they were fantastic at whatever their job was, providing whatever product or service that they did, but building teams and learning how to lead Well, that's a different skill set. And so as I was learning myself leading teams and trying to help them moving from corporate into the nonprofit world and then ultimately starting my own practice. What I discovered over time was that this is something that everybody can learn. They just need to make an intentional choice to do so. And so I've devoted my life to helping my clients win. When they win, I win, and what. I want to do is see as many of them win as possible.

I love it. That's great. Did you have any choices fork in the road? And this is often a great question for young business people, because a lot of times we make a choice and it works out really well, or it doesn't work out really well, but that's a lesson we can pass on generationally. So did you make any significant choices in your career? Or how did you choose this current path?

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: What a fantastic question. I think I would answer that with this, yes. I think we have forks in the road far more often than not, but there are those catalytic moments. I call them those moments when this choice, this decision, this is going to affect the trajectory of your life. This is going to affect the quality and the direction of your life. Yes, I've absolutely had those. One of those was when I started coaching outside of the organizations that I worked for. Coaching was just a part of who I am as a student of leadership. Now, for 40 plus years, I began, first with myself, and then I began to share that, and it was always a part of the organizations I was a part of the businesses that I worked for. But when I took a step outside of that and said, What if I started to do this for people outside of those contexts, that was a catalytic moment for me, because that was the moment I began to say, hey, I can add value to people, even beyond what I'm doing all day, every day. That was a big one.

So I remember I had to make a major decision in my life, and I actually went and spoke to one of my friend's mothers who was particularly insightful. I talked to my mom, my dad, my mom gave me a great tip right down the pros and cons on either side, but I literally met with my friend's mom, and I was driving home, and I just I knew I had to tell my parents. The decision was whether to go away to college or stay home. And message I got from the gods was from John Cougar, melikin, Jack and Diane. And I heard the song, and there's a line in the song. It said, Hold on to 16. As long as you can change is coming along real fast to make us women and men. Yes, so I decided to stay home for college, and I just figured out why, because it actually meant that I could have four more years close to my dad, and then I eventually moved to Toronto and moved to the United States, so I got to spend some quality time. So maybe I love that wasn't the best maybe John Cougar Mellencamp wasn't the most present advice, but it certainly was the road I took. Anyways, I want to get quickly into the 10 golden rules, because we spent some time brainstorming this, and we've got some great content, and it's going to allow William to share some of his best stuff. So when you start out an engagement with a client, you call it discovery, and you ask a lot of good questions, but the one of the first things you said is determine your major pain points. Want to explain that one a little bit Sure,

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: one of the the first documents a new client is going to fill out when they begin to work with me is determining what I call their primary focus areas. This is where we I'm going to ask questions. Where is it that you are feeling that you're stuck? Where is it that you feel like, Hey, I know there's more in me. I know I can accomplish more. My business can achieve a different level. My practice can grow to this size, but I'm just not getting there. I feel like I'm spinning my wheels. What are the areas as we begin to dial this in that we need to focus on? That's what I'm going to dial in. Once we determine those pain points, those areas, then we can address them, but most often, identifying those problems, identifying those points that takes some time because most people can't do it off the top of their head. That's

great. And I'm sure you're familiar with Eos, the Entrepreneurial Operating system we're running on EOS now for, I guess, two years of self implementation, one and a half years with our great implementer. And you all who listen to the podcast regularly have met Gerardo on our previous webinar and podcast. One of the cool things about EOS is we identify what we call our issues, or they're called rocks in the US. We have our list of issues and our big quarterly rocks that we're going to solve as a company and then as a department and as an individual. So I guess that would be my feedback on how we identify our pain points. Next up is, I think you said you do a lot of evaluation, and you do disc and working genius. What is the intention with that? Those exercises, those evaluations. You know, when

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: we start as leaders day and we start our leadership journey, we first start to supervise or hire and manage other people. What we do is we typically will copy leaders that we have worked for, or we'll copy leaders that we've admired from afar. And that's normal. That's great. The problem is that if we stay there, that over time, all we become is a. Bad copy of a great leader, you have to learn to lead according to your wiring. And every one of us is wired just a little bit different. So when I'm working with a new client, I walk through two different assessments. One is the disc and one is the working genius. And what these two assessments do is they help me. The disc is going to help me to dial in a little bit of their personality, how they are wired, how they see themselves and how they see other people. The working genius is going to help me understand how they play with others, how they work inside teams. Where are their zones of genius and where are their zones of frustration? Where are they competent and what do they need to hand off those assessments are going to help me dial in what I call their wiring, their catalytic wiring that differentiates them from every other leader on the planet, so that I can encourage them to lead from who they are, not from who they think they should be, or who other people have told them that they should be.

And what's one of the best uses of disc if you can understand someone's DISC profile, how do you then use that in business?

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: If you understand first, how you are wired, it's going to help you lead authentically. But the next step as a leader is to understand how your direct reports are wired. If you understand how they're wired, all of a sudden, now you can lead them according to who they are, not who you think they should be, or who you are. So often we lead other people as though they're just like us. Well, guess what? They're not. So learning their disc is going to help you to lead them according to who they are and how they are wired. It's going to help you lead way more effectively is going to help you to lead them to a much higher performance level than if you're trying to lead them in a cookie cutter methodology. So

of course, that was a leading question, because I told you I have a little trick, a little toy, a little tool. It's not a toy at all. Actually. It's a product called Crystal nose, and it's an AI that is going to tell me your DISC profile. So I gotta share my screen, looking at it like everybody else is. And for those of you on video on audio, only try and be very descriptive. So now I'm looking at William C Attaway, who is linkedin.com/in/william Attaway, and this is your LinkedIn profile, and over here you see this little star. It says, view personality. So I'm going to engage that. And this is an AI, an artificial intelligence tool called Crystal knows. And I think you can get, like, 20 free crystals, and then I pay for the tool, because it's pretty powerful. Now this is going to be the fun part, because Dr Attaway told me that he's a pure C, which is a conscientious it's the wise owl in disc, but this tool thinks he's an IS. Now, interestingly, he told me that as a coach, he's an IS, which would be interactive and supportive, a little bit more personality, and the supportive is like the Dove, the customer service professional. But what I love about this tool, and that's why I joked before that, I asked a leading question, this tool is telling me how to interact with you, so it says, communicate with a warm, friendly tone, and include others in the conversation. Speak with expressive, colorful language. Keep the energy light with jokes. Don't prioritize cost over short term emotions. Don't focus on details the start. Start with a strong connection. And so I'm a pure D, which is dominant, which is typically the leaders. There's a great book called Taking Flight, where they describe each of the personality types as birds. Have you seen that before? Yeah, I have, yeah. So I'm like the eagle soaring above. William says he's the conscientious, the wise owl in most of the studies, but when he's working with folks, he's more influential and steady. And then this tool gives us crystal knows, gives us the ability to tell me how to work together. Let's say I'm prospecting you as a target. I should bounce between topics in a conversation. Try and reduce the structure and bureaucracy. Feel comfortable speaking to a new person. Make it funny. Use an emoticon in writing styles. How to drive William to take action, engage them in conversation. Create time to freely discuss ideas. Schedule meetings over food and drinks. Well, funny enough, we hit them. There you go. Right. What do you think of this tool? I think

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: this phenomenal. I've never seen this before. I love it.

Crystal knows, C, R, y, s, t, a, l, K, N, O, W, s, and if you're listening on audio and you want to see it in action, just hop on the 10 golden rules YouTube channel. Love that, and that's fascinating. It's its own hour. And I think we actually had crystal knows in one of our webinars, so you can learn more. About those guys. But without further ado, we're going to move on to number three of the 10 golden rules of catalytic leadership, hybrid, building a high performance team. And you said that starts with

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: hiring. How you hire is going to determine so much when it comes to your team, we set expectations during hiring, and most often frustration, disappointment and discouragement come from missed expectations. What I want to do when I'm hiring is be very clear about the expectations that I have of this person and of the role. I want there to be absolutely no confusion at all. What a win is what is the center of the bullseye. If you accomplish this, this is high performance. This is what the win is. Most people, I had found don't do that when they're hiring. They don't clearly delineate exactly what they want from the person that they're hiring. When you bring that level of clarity, you're bringing kindness. Clarity is kindness that's true with other people. It's most often true with yourself. So if you're having trouble with retention with team members, I would encourage you to look at your hiring process and see if you are bringing maximum clarity into the conversation.

So I'm glad, I think I can check that off my checklist, because I do a very detailed job description. Generally use LinkedIn for hiring meetings. I'll end up inviting 14 or 15 people to assume meeting, and believe it's not two or three self select them out, because I'm very clear, like, this is a camera meeting. So if you show up late and you're not on camera and you got some excuses, you're pretty much done, unless it was the best resume I saw. Nice, I lay out the agenda, and I say, first, I'm going to tell you about me, and I want you to have the opportunity to speak relative to my background, the company, the role and why we have an opening. I give them that perspective, and then, since we've been on Eos, part of my job is the company's visionary, and that's EOS term and a tight job title, but I am also the visionary for our company. I tell them very clearly, and I even have slides and I demonstrate our mission and our core values, and I'm pretty upfront. One of our core values is expect excellence. And are there other co workers or a players and they don't really stand for people who don't do what they say they're going to do, meet their deadlines, like we're a pretty a player kind of environment. So love that. And I'm very upfront. I'm like, Look, if this doesn't fit you and you don't want to hang out with other people who are going to hold you accountable, I want you to say so now and we can stop this process. So does that sound like a good exercise for folks to follow in setting expectations 100%

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: no matter what business you run, whether it's a business like yours, Jay, whether it's a legal practice, you are responsible as the senior leader for the culture you create. With your team, you are responsible to create it and to protect it. And with every hire, you are either protecting the culture you've created intentionally, or you're undermining it

so true. And even more important with smaller teams. I remember when we were seven people and one person left, that was like 15% of the workforce. That's right, 15% of the turmoil. Now that we're in the 2425 it's not as big an impact, but culture is is critical, especially on the leadership team. And then the final thing we do in hiring, we use predictive index, really valuable, because it is predictive of, is the person going to be super friendly? Are they going to be very detail oriented? How much energy are they going to bring to their day to day tasks? And find it's very consistent, especially because we have 10 years of back data when we can look at a match previous employees have succeeded in the role. I love that. All right. Next one up. Get out of your own way.

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: Most often, business owners get in their own way. What I mean? They are at the center of the spotter Web. Every decision has to come to their desk. They have to wait on everything. Their team members are constantly coming to them asking questions. What do you think about this? How about this? What should I do here? You're at the center of the spider web, and what that means is that you are going to be the lid on the growth of your team and your organization, your business, if that's where you want to stay, if you want to be the lid and you're comfortable where you are and you don't want to grow. Keep doing it that way. I think there's a better way. What I do is I help leaders to get out of their own way so that they can stop being that lid and the sky becomes the limit at that point.

It's a great point, and they literally just got off a call. With a very frustrated marketing manager who's very frustrated with the senior attorney, because he wants to be involved in every decision, wants to prove every video, every piece of copy. And guess what? He's too busy to do it, and he's too busy to show up at the meetings with his agency. So she's super frustrated because nothing's moving forward. He's frustrated with the results. But I hate to break it to you, if you're doing SEO and you don't add copy and videos to your website, you're not actually doing SEO, he's got to get out of his own way, and we're going to tag team him to get that done. Yeah, and

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: most people can't see the whole picture when you're in the frame, right? You can't you don't have perspective. It's very difficult to see where you're in your own way. That's why an outside perspective is so helpful. And I love that you're going to be able to do that, you're going to be able to provide that and say, Hey, let me help you. And so often, and any business owner can do this frame it it's not me against you, it's me and you against the problem. We'll try any of your listeners can do that with

this particular individual. Another great exercise from EOS is called delegate and elevate is on a piece of paper, you draw a line down the middle and line across the top to bottom, and in the top right quadrant you write the things that you love doing, that you're really good at. And in the bottom quadrant is going to be the things you're not very good at and you hate to and that's the quadrant you start immediately with. And for me, it's basic daily accounting tests. Hate doing it, not very good at it, not going to do it, so I immediately pass those along, and Oh, guess what? You generally can find someone else who loves doing it. They love rigor and the control of financial numbers and our finances are way better now. We're invoicing on time. We're getting paid on time. It's like, awesome. Why didn't I delegate and elevate this years ago? But the next point, I think, is really closely tied to this. And you said delegate authority, not just responsibility.

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: Yeah, and I love that example of the delegate and elevate, because we look at this so often, and you're going to fill those boxes with tasks, right? Like the accounting. Well, I will take care of the accounting. Somebody else to do this, the bookkeeping, right? Those are tasks, and that's important, and that's where delegation begins. But if you really want to remove yourself from the center of the spot or web, what you have to do is learn how to delegate authority.

So delegate authority, not just responsibility. Love it. I'm going to do a quick recap. Yeah, determine your major pain points. We talked about identifying the root problems. Number two is the assessments. And you like disc and working genius, and I showed everyone crystal knows where you can actually get at least a snapshot into someone you're doing business with, or your employees discs. And by the way, it's about 90% accurate. It's not always 100% perfect, but it's pretty darn good. Building a high performance team starts with hiring, and you gave some great tips there. Get out of your own way. And so we both talked about folks who want to be involved in every decision, and how you cannot get enough accomplished when you do that, and the delegate and elevate exercise and then delegating authority, not just responsibility. So next step is your practice will never grow beyond your leadership.

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: The reality is, I thought business owners and practice owners want their business to reach a certain level. They have an idea of where they want that to grow to. If you are not developing and being intentional about your own growth as a leader and as a business owner, you will never achieve the level of growth that you're after in your business, because you again become the lid, you become the cap on the growth. You have to intentionally decide, I'm going to grow as a leader so that there is room for the business to grow under my leadership. If you're not raising your level, the business will not exceed you. There are times when you will think it can because you'll get a burst, and all of a sudden there'll be this burst of growth and activity, and you think, oh, it's Oh, it's amazing, but it always recedes because your leadership forces it back down. You're not able to lead at that level because you've not grown to that level. So

how do you grow as a leader? I mean, obviously you're going to say business coaching and getting a great business coach, and by the way, I'm going to agree, because, you know, my business coach is Josh Nelson, 100% and among others, and I have a tennis coach, and I have a trainer in the gym, and great coaches can help you get to that next level. But what other strategies for becoming a great leader? It

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: has to do with the intentional rhythms and. Habits of your life? Are you constantly ingesting or taking in what you want to become? I'm a reader. It's obvious from the background behind me. Yes, those are real books this. This is part of who I am. I'm constantly

on audio. Dr Attaway will call him when he's probably got about 400 books right behind them, and they look red like you can tell me, these have been many times, page turned and notes written in the columns and whatnot.

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: That's that's part of my rhythm. It has been for a very long time, for decades now, what I take in, through books, through podcasts, through conferences that I attend, masterminds that I'm a part of. I'm constantly learning and growing. Another part of it is like you mentioned, the coaches. I've had coaches for decades. I continue to have coaches because I can't see my own business with the clarity that I need. I help others, but I can't see my own because I'm in that frame. I need other people to help me see what I can't see, discover my blind spots and how to overcome them. These are part of the rhythms that I build in. They don't just happen. I'm not just going to magically wake up one day and say, Oh, wow, I'm an amazing, fantastic leader. I don't know how that happened, but here I am. Nobody does that. You have to intentionally decide I'm going to grow and then put a plan in place to make it happen.

How do you read? What time of day do you follow? A protocol, a cadence, a commitment? I

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: do. I read in the mornings. I've got, usually at least one book that I'm working through in the mornings. I read in the evenings before I go to bed. It's a different kind of book. Usually it's a fiction novel that I have going at bedtime, just to kind of unwind my brain a little bit something completely different. And I've always got a book with me. So if I'm somewhere and I'm waiting, which happens, I've got a book, and that's typically one that I keep in my bag so that wherever I am, it's with me. There's never a time I don't have a book. Yeah, it means I've got multiple books doing at one time. But that rhythm is how I read about three books a week.

Oh, that's awesome. I love it. I found a cadence from I mentioned Andy fusella earlier. He's actually the founder of 75 heart. Yeah. Then I'm on my second year of 75 heart, where you work out twice a day, drink a gallon of water, follow a diet, no cheat meals, no alcohol, and read 10 pages of a non fiction book every day. Nice. Yeah, I'm always so busy that I need that discipline if I don't complete that final task of reading 10 pages and he's going to image in the app where he's scorning it, looking at you with such disappointment, that's awesome. All right, next up, mindset is 90% of your success or failure.

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: The perspective you have on the world, the mindset that you build, truly affects every part of your life. We look at behaviors and actions, and we think if we could just do enough behavior modification and start enough actions that are to become habits. Over time, this will change my life. The problem is that those things, your behaviors, your actions, even your words, are all rooted in your beliefs. They're rooted in your thoughts, what you believe about yourself, what you believe about other people, and what you believe about the world around you, that's your mindset. Understand that your mindset controls 90% of your success. It also controls 90% of your failure. Building a healthy and sustainable mindset is one of the most powerful things you can do as a leader, as a business owner, as a practice owner, if you will focus time developing a healthy mindset, you will never regret it.

Love it. Next one, everybody's busy. Are you busy doing the right things?

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: One of the areas that I coach leaders in is productivity. And when we talk about this, the thing I hear most often, and I could just about just say, with everybody that I coach, I'm so busy. I'm so busy. How you doing? I'm so busy. I'm so busy. I get it. We're all busy. That doesn't sound familiar at all, but are you busy doing the right things? This is my question. Are you busy doing the things that are going to move the needle if you're a business owner or practice owner? Are you leveraging your time and your resources on income producing activities or IPAs, or are you allowing other people to set your priorities and simply being reactionary in your calendar, so you're just responding to everybody else's wants and needs. That is what I see most often. To be proactive, is to determine ahead of time what your priorities are going to be. To pre decide. This is what I do every week. In my weekly review, I pre decide what my priorities for the week. Car, and I time block and prioritize my week accordingly. You

do your own Weekly Review. I do of yourself. I do so what does that exercise look like? I love that I usually

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: do this on Sunday evenings, and the first part of it is I look back over the previous seven days, and I asked three questions, what are the wins that I can celebrate, and I write them down in my wins journal. This becomes a knowledge base over time. What are the wins I can celebrate? Second question, where did I swing and miss this week? Where did I swing and miss? We all have those things that we try that don't work, or those things that we do when we fail. Where did I swing and miss? Third question, what would I do different next time when I'm in a similar situation in the future, how would I handle that differently? What would I say differently? What would I do differently? What would I believe differently? And I process that learning all the way through, so that the next time I'm in a similar situation, I've already processed the learning. I know what I'm going to do in that situation. I've pre decided that's the first part of the weekly review. The second part is looking ahead over the next seven days, looking at my calendar. What are the appointments that I have this week? What do I need to prepare to bring the best version of myself into those meetings? What prep work do I need to do? Block time to do that? What are the two or three things that if I got these two or three things done this week, this would be an amazing week. Come Friday at five o'clock or whenever your weekends, I could say, Man, this was a fabulous week. What are those two or three things? Decide what those are, block time to do them. That's how they get done.

That's Brian Tracy's eat the frog, right? If you, especially if you do it early, it's like a little tadpole. And if you delay on getting your taxes to your accountant, it becomes a big, hairy toe doesn't

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: taste any better. That's right,

all right, keeping tight on time. So the next one up is evaluation.

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: Evaluation, I think, is a skill that too few leaders are doing. A mentor of mine told me this years ago. He said you have to learn to autopsy not just failure, but also success, because if you don't know why it's working when it's working, you will not know how to fix it when it breaks. So I'm going to evaluate what's working, and I'm going to evaluate what's not working. I do this with our team. We go through this exercise. Hey, what are the wins we can celebrate? Where did we swing and miss? What do we do different? We're going to walk through that with events that we do. We're going to do with projects that we do, with work that we do for clients. What can we celebrate? What didn't work. How would we do it different next time that evaluation helps us to double down on what's working and to adjust or adapt what's not working,

I love that, and I'm going to take that exercise to my leadership team we just don't have at our conference, 10 golden rules live strategies for law firms. We awarded our 10 golden rules client of the year. And oh, it's Cantor Hall in the Castro and Cantor Wolf The Castro Hall. And congratulations, guys, by the way, and I'm going to talk to our team about what made that relationship quick, because we talked to them, and they're very happy with us. Of course, they went from five or six or seven cases a month to 20 and 30 cases a month, and they're thrilled, and we're thrilled, but a big part of it is they show up. For me, it's like the counter to the guy we talked about earlier. They show up for meetings. They've got a million questions. They take our advice and try, but it's not Jay's advice, it's what Jay and his team are telling you from 70 or 80 other clients. Here's what's working for them. Why don't you guys try Exactly. We'll do something else if that doesn't work. But success leaves clues. Tony Robbins, right, that's right. So last one, and you call this the magic question, what is it right now, if I could wave a magic wand, what are you losing sleep over? So why don't we test this exercise? And I'm going to give you one. So what I'm a little frustrated with, or what's sort of bigger picture, is we've got a couple positions that are kind of part time. Our in house, tangled and Rose marketing is being done by a part time person. And our sales we've got an awesome sales assistant, but she's in law school, so she's great, but I'm struggling a little bit because I want those to be full time positions, but I'm also restricted on unlimited budget. So is that a problem that we can answer

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: absolutely, yeah, I think it starts with, what is it that you don't like that's currently happening? Dial that in. Is it the number of hours that are being spent, or is it how those hours are spent? Is there evaluation happening on what activities are currently being done? Until we can determine and segregate. Hey, these pieces, these are getting outsized reward. These pieces aren't getting traction. Let's double down over here and stop doing some of these. Like I would dial that in with you. The

biggest part of it for me is I know how to do these things, right. Like marketing. Yeah, we're a marketing person. We're a client side but I don't have time to do it right, right? So support, obviously can do it in my sleep if I had the time. The challenge is the half time people don't have full time available to do it right either. So then

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: it comes. It becomes a matter of prioritization. It becomes a matter of saying, what are the things that are going to move the needle? You have 20 hours a week. Say, Okay, where are we going to spend that? 20 hours? Okay, as a part time person, how are we going to spend that? You have to take the lead role at the beginning of that as the owner. You have to take the lead role and say, hey, I want us to sit down and prioritize and then evaluate and prioritize and then evaluate with

them on optimization? Yeah, exactly now

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: you're starting to see what's working that's going to help you feel better right

at time. But, yeah, I know people are going to take a ton from this, but I do have to ask the final two questions, please. What's a great referral for you? If we want to send some business your way, who do you want to meet?

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: I love to work with business owners who want to grow, who have a teachable spirit, and who say, I know there's more in me than what I'm currently experiencing. I'm feeling a little stuck. Those are the people I love to work with.

So when you meet the stuck folks, the next question, Where can we find you?

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: You can find more about me and what I do at catalytic leadership.net that'll give you information about the podcast that I host, the books that I've written, the coaching that I do, everything catalytic is found there.

And Dr William Attaway, you'll come right up on LinkedIn. This was awesome. Thank you so much. And for everyone, if you're enjoying it, you know, give us a five star review and reach out to Dr Attaway and Dr Attaway, thank you so much for your time. Today, I had a lot of fun.

Dr. Wiliam C. Attaway: Thank you such an honor, man.