Why Women’s Leadership is the Future of Tech

Welcome. Dear listeners, to the speak and flow podcast where we dive into unique strategies to help you and your team achieve maximum potential and flow even when the stakes are high. I have an amazing, hugely successful, powerful women in tech leader. She has organized one of the world's largest virtual conferences for women in technology. She is the CEO co-founder of Women Tech Network.

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Melinda Lee: She's an investor and also author of Amazon's New number one new release

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Melinda Lee: book called Chief in Tech. Her name is Anna Radulowski. Did I get that right, Anna?

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Anna Radulovski: Close.

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Anna Radulovski: Yeah, Radolovsky.

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Melinda Lee: Not through lobby. Hi, Anna! Welcome.

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Anna Radulovski: Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited about our conversation.

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Melinda Lee: Me, too. I know this is going to be so helpful for all the women in technology or stem. And you've written a book. You've done a lot in this industry in this area. So I'm really excited to dive in. And before we get into that, I wanted to know. What are you passionate about? What are you doing these days that excites you?

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Anna Radulovski: Wow! That's a great question. I mean, one of the things that excites me is taking quality time off with my family in summer. And also.

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Anna Radulovski: you know, sharing more about the things that we are doing at women tech network, helping other women and also taking time to look inwards.

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Anna Radulovski: When I, when I say that I mean, you know, look and reflect, taking time to reflect about my journey, but also taking time to improve different processes, optimize also the things we do to work better and work more effectively. Also at women. Tech network speak at events, conferences, podcasts about my recent book. As you mentioned chiffin tech.

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Anna Radulovski: And yeah, don't forget to have fun.

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Melinda Lee: Yes, we have to have fun along the way. You're out in Europe right now, about to go to Greece soon. So good for you. And so when you see the transformation, when you see that you're helping the women out there progress and develop, how does that feel for you?

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Anna Radulovski: You know, always exciting and empowering at the same time. I love when the advice that I give people makes a difference in their career. And it's okay. Also, if they don't apply. And I think I also think about that, it's more about those who will apply. It will make a difference, and that there's lots of advice, and I think it can be challenging at moments.

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Anna Radulovski: you know which one is the right advice. So I think, by testing and experimenting and actually taking an action. I think the worst thing that a person can do is just to keep things that they are and not doing anything and then being really struggling, actually to achieve their goals and being really like blocked.

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Anna Radulovski: And I'm not taking any steps forward whether they want to get a promotion about a job or build their personal brand, whatever it is that for them.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've done your due diligence as you've done. You've done some research and interviewed lots of women in tech and found some of the struggles that they've gone through, and also provided some solutions and tips like you said. And so, whether you the guests or the listener wants to implement it or not. The the key is what you're saying is at least try something, do it, test it right, and then, and then get the feedback.

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Anna Radulovski: Yeah, absolutely. Feedback is crucial, I think, and having mentors trusted people in your circle who can give you honest feedback, I think friends very often can give you very kind and back, and they can give you actually great support whenever you need it. But having, you know your board of advisors, people that you know they can trust and ask for professional advice.

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Anna Radulovski: and having mentors who done? You know what you want to do, or who you know who you look up to. That can be really, really powerful for you to get ahead definitely.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, I mean, we're women in here that really want to get ahead. And we want to do it right. We want to do it. Well. And so, yeah, having that support sponsor mentor in different directions. And so as we're climbing as we're going up and we're evolving as women in technology. What do you think are the struggles nowadays that you see in leadership.

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Anna Radulovski: That's a really great question. So some of the struggles, some of the challenges that women face there are several challenges. But let's focus on several of them to discuss today on the

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Anna Radulovski: one of the things is still, you know, bias and microaggression at work. That still is an issue. Sometimes some challenges are also internal imposter syndrome.

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Anna Radulovski: that to a certain extent also comes from the fact that many workplaces weren't built with women in mind. So it's really, really, it's really easy to feel like you're an imposter, especially when you get into a new role, or you go into a meeting, and all the people who participate in a man, and you're the only woman, and that's what I was hearing from women

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Anna Radulovski: many times and again, and the last one is also struggling to communicate your value powerfully, and very often it just doesn't feel very comfortable, and many women think that if they work hard they will be noticed.

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Anna Radulovski: The truth is that hard work alone is not enough. You need to make sure that people who are important

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Anna Radulovski: to your career growth know about the things that you are doing.

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Anna Radulovski: and that very often can feel really uncomfortable, as if you are bragging, and women occasionally tend to minimize it like, oh, I just did that, or it was a team effort, or it was nothing, not a big deal, or even forgetting to

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Anna Radulovski: communicate that there was something successfully done to articulate and share about that, because people assume that people in the leadership roles that are you know about them already. Know about that. That's not true.

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Anna Radulovski: That's not true, and you need to be effectively communicating your value, and especially when people want to get promoted. Visibility is important

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Anna Radulovski: and also building relationship inside the company as well as growing your network outside the company, joining networks like women tech network going to networking events. And I know networking can be also challenging for women, and at moments it can be awkward, can feel transactional. And I also share about that in the book on how to one of the principle that I applied during networking is.

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Anna Radulovski: I have a mindset instead of

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Anna Radulovski: how can this person help me? How can I help this person? You know, not thinking, okay, what can I get from this person? Because that's our own mindset. I think that many people get that wrong, that as if you know, you need to be one. If one people wins, another, one loses. But I don't see. I think that could be. You know, an exchange. You can help one person, that person or somebody else from, or even it will come back to you in millions of beautiful ways. So I'm a true believer in that. And then.

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Anna Radulovski: very often what it takes, instead of so focusing on yourself and try to think of being interesting, be really, truly interested in what another person is doing. That's 1 of the rules also, for you know, successful networking.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah. So place to focus on other people. So it doesn't feel so so overwhelming to try to say the right thing.

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Anna Radulovski: That it's also like, try not to also think about saying the right thing at all. Of course you need to have a good pitch articulating your value. What is that that you are doing? Who are you helping? What brings you here, and what brings you here could be? Not necessarily. I'm looking, you know, for a co-found, or I'm looking for a mentor. It could be. I'm looking to build my network with fellow women in technology. I'm looking to

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Anna Radulovski: learn more about the latest technology. So have a clear purpose and then build your network and around that. So when you have a clear purpose, it doesn't feel transactional anymore. You know why you're there.

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Anna Radulovski: I think it's also okay to have some awkward interactions. I think we should should not assume that just because you know your purpose that you wouldn't be bumping into people and having awkward conversations. I think it's totally fine, and they exist, and that's also part of the journey.

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Melinda Lee: Oh, my goodness, but then for women, we always want to get it. Right the 1st time and it almost feels so uncomfortable when we are awkward.

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Anna Radulovski: Yeah, that that's true. I mean, when I think about my my 1st steps into networking, I remember you know most of the most of the people at a networking event were guys.

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Anna Radulovski: It was completely awkward, and that was one of the reasons I also, later on, when I was at the larger conference. I started thinking about it. I was like where all the women and I got so passionate about that problem that I thought, okay, let me do the research, let me, you know, organize a few events and test my assumptions like, are women not interested in technology? And that turned out not to be true. It's just the tech field is really male, dominant.

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Anna Radulovski: and it's very difficult for women without not seeing so many role models like, you know, like Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk, and not having enough women in the spotlight in the senior leadership role. So they would say, Hey, this is cool. I want to be just like her. And one of the things that I'm doing also as part of my mission at Women tech network is to make sure that

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Anna Radulovski: women in technology know how cool they are and get in the spotlight. We have our women tech global awards. We constantly feature, you know, extraordinarily women in technology, in different locations, we, you know, take every opportunity to remind women of how how much they already achieved and how cool they are. One of the conversations that I had was one leader, and she's a senior accomplished leader with 25 years of experience.

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Anna Radulovski: And I'm telling her, look, we have, you know, a global women tech global awards coming up. And you should apply.

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Anna Radulovski: And she's like, Yeah, well, I want just to accomplish one thing this year, and the next year I will apply. I was like, but nothing will change. You know you already have done so much like. Look at your impressive career, right?

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Anna Radulovski: And it's just like, well, okay, I'll think about it. So sometimes it takes takes someone in your circle to remind you how great you are as if you forgot about that, or you feel that everything is to be perfect. You need to check every single box.

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Anna Radulovski: and only then you feel like you're worthy of that award. Because even if you win that award potentially, then you won't feel like, you know, this is such a great achievement. You would feel like, Oh, my God! I probably didn't deserve that award, like someone else should have, you know, won right? I think that imposter syndrome can be really strong, and the perfectionism just like you shared.

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Anna Radulovski: That, I think, is the one of the biggest challenges also on the way. What is perfect, nothing is perfect. No product, you know, is perfect. No one has ever built a perfect solution. All the humans are imperfect, it might seem, on the surface if people share just a piece of their life. They have it all together, but in reality

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Anna Radulovski: there are so many struggles, there are so many challenges going on. I think none of the successful people, men and women, you know, haven't failed.

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Anna Radulovski: haven't had challenging situation, haven't become resilient. Resilience is so key.

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Anna Radulovski: That's what I saw also from the interviews executive interviews that I had for my chief intact book. I saw that resilience is key is key to success, like there were none of the leaders that

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Anna Radulovski: you know have become successful in technology, made it, or you know, climbed to the sea level.

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Anna Radulovski: and they are not resilient. All of them are resilient. So it's.

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Melinda Lee: Sorry did you define? How did you see them being resilient? What are some of the behaviors, or some of the things that they would say.

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Anna Radulovski: Some of the

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Anna Radulovski: I think that they would say, I think, that the thing that they would do and the thing that they would do

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Anna Radulovski: I mean that? Would they would. If you? If you ask about saying they would ask for that opportunity, they would know what they want. They would invite themselves in a, in a, in the conversation, that they would not be typically invited, they would proactively ask for being in that meeting, though they probably like ready what is ready? Right? So they would. Might not be. Someone would say, they are not ready, but they would proactively ask

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Anna Radulovski: for that, and when challenges occur they would be

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Anna Radulovski: able to bounce back because they have a growth mindset. They view challenges as opportunities for growth. They know that it's part of the journey. They know that it's not possible to like when we say the ladder is like this perfect ladder right.

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Melinda Lee: Right.

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Anna Radulovski: Take a career break, you might fall down. You might be. I need to take care of you know, of an agent parent, you know, that could be so many challenges out there. And they're okay with that.

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Anna Radulovski: I think what I really loved about them, despite facing a fair share of struggles, you know, from from bias to, you know, being overlooked for a promotion, and whatever not on earth. You know in the company that they were working in. What I noticed is that they

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Anna Radulovski: all of them that are the people that I interview, and that I interviewed, and beyond all of them, are so passionate about

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Anna Radulovski: paying it forward and given back because they don't want any other woman to struggle. And one of the leaders said.

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Anna Radulovski: when I wanted to make sure. I wanted to become, you know, to to climb to the sea level, to become a CIO, because I wanted to change things. I knew that if I want system to change, I need to climb to the top. And for that level to drive change. That's what drove me, she said. I felt I mean. She faced lots of challenges, and there were so many women, you know, so instead of kind of

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Anna Radulovski: that is, dragging them down or preventing them, they became more resilient and more and more and more so they actually achieved that. And and you know, then make a difference.

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Melinda Lee: I love that I love, that. She was so driven to make a change. She didn't. She wasn't as concerned about the challenges that were getting in the way she was just wanting to.

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Anna Radulovski: Exactly, and I think that making the life of other women right a little bit easier.

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Melinda Lee: I think.

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Anna Radulovski: All of the women. I will tell you something that I really loved about this executive interviews. That was one of my favorite parts of book writing journey

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Anna Radulovski: is having the convert. All this conversation, how generous they were with their time, and like how busy they are, and how generous they were with that time to actually make sure that

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Anna Radulovski: the strategies, the tips that work for them can work for other women, and they don't have to make necessarily not just the same mistakes, but they can accelerate faster. I think that was also key. And to make sure to do you know something good for the community definitely. That's that's what drives me. That's what drives so many members also in our community.

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Melinda Lee: I love that. And do you see I love, I mean, I could see your your purpose, your community raising the women and technology that is so great and such a big, big, bold vision and purpose. Do you? Do you also see that there's still the micro like more of the microaggression still happening? Is it less? Are people they're getting more accustomed to more women in technology? Or is it still a big.

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Anna Radulovski: One of the questions that I also asked with some of the leaders during the interview, so I asked them.

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Anna Radulovski: Why do you think like as compared to a decade ago. Do you see things improve for women in technology?

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Melinda Lee: Right.

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Anna Radulovski: And the answer was, Yes.

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Anna Radulovski: because there is more awareness. There are more organizations like women tech network. There is more awareness. There are women areas. There are more talks about that. So before, no one was like talking as much about that. So I think they said that there is more awareness. But whether does it change? I think it depends really on the company culture. It comes down to a company culture.

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Anna Radulovski: my hope to everyone who starts a company startups what? I see that very often, because everything is so fast and you start and you focus so much on the solution. My hope that startups and founders would focus also on the culture

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Anna Radulovski: and not thinking of fixing the diversity problem later. Right? Like, they see, okay, okay, we have just guys, right. We probably need a diverse perspective here, or just guys from a certain kind of domain, maybe, or experience, or country or state whatever that could be.

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Anna Radulovski: to make sure that you build diverse team when you start. Not once you grow. And just like, Oh, well, actually, and not because it's so much easier to build from in the beginning, to think about that rather than to

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Anna Radulovski: fix it later once it's already established. I think that's 1 of the things that, and very often what I see that, of course, where the company culture is is great women stay there much longer. They're much more loyal, but they also feel so much more supported, valued, and appreciated.

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Anna Radulovski: and to an extent it was so interesting. I was to one conference recently, and during the networking one man, I said, Hey, we have this company, and they're a partner, and he's like, I know that company. Their company culture is so great. And I said, hey? This is also my impression. Like everyone I'm talking to, you know, from the sea level management is so engaged and supportive like you feel. Really this wife. It's very difficult to describe it in words.

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Anna Radulovski: but how every team member is treating each other, how like they communicate through the value and like, given the credit to each other. You know I really really love that. I really love that I think that's that's when it even, I think if you decide to leave such a company.

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Anna Radulovski: You would be like the biggest advocate ever, and you would really have such great memories. And

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Anna Radulovski: that's, I think, what if we have more.

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Anna Radulovski: you know, supportive workplaces, healthier cultures. I think we will have also more female leaders staying much longer and making a bigger impact. There.

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Melinda Lee: but it does come from the it's helpful to start it from the beginning and have that intention and that purpose from the beginning versus try to fix it later.

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Anna Radulovski: Some established companies, it's much more complex. So

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Anna Radulovski: if you have the power, if you decide to disrupt the technology field and to build your startup, so make sure that your company is diverse when you start not when you have grown already.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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Melinda Lee: do you find that women are support? More and more women are supporting each other in in technology? Or do you still think that there's still some divide, and women also, we don't support other women. Sometimes I've heard that before, right? There's some biases

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Melinda Lee: of around.

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Anna Radulovski: I remember once I asked that question, I think, on Linkedin, and one of the women shared that very often.

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Anna Radulovski: Only women who don't support other women. They don't do it just because they're bad women. They do it because they're scared because it was so hard for them to get that role.

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Melinda Lee: They've.

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Anna Radulovski: Feel as if they support another women. They will take that role.

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Anna Radulovski: But in in my community I don't. I don't necessarily see that I see women supporting women, and that is like surrounding me

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Anna Radulovski: every single day. I I see so much support, so much

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Anna Radulovski: beauty, I would say, in a way, how women are supporting women, how that is being multiplied, you know, through different channels. Also, I see how other communities like what I really love is that we have, you know, our community members. And they, for example, support our global conference. And we support also some of the community members that having conferences and events. And

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Anna Radulovski: I believe that to make a bigger change we need to unite, and we need to, because, united, we are much stronger.

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Melinda Lee: Right. Oh, that's beautiful! And what would be one takeaway, golden takeaway that you want the audience to remember.

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Anna Radulovski: One takeaway.

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Melinda Lee: Okay.

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Anna Radulovski: Let me think about it.

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Anna Radulovski: Well, if I would want you to walk away just with one thing is that I would say that leadership is not about being the smartest person in the room is about making space for others to rise with. You.

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Melinda Lee: Oh!

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Anna Radulovski: And that's I've seen, you know, again and again through building women tech network. And you know everything that I've done pretty much, and also being in different, powerful and supportive communities.

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Anna Radulovski: When it comes to us women tech network, we didn't grow our global communities by having all the answers. Right? So we grew by creating space, by lifting others, by inviting people in and by saying also, Hey, you belong here.

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Anna Radulovski: I'm a true believer that it takes also a village like to grow, your career to grow a network. And

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Anna Radulovski: I just times and again, I I see how powerful a community can be.

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Anna Radulovski: and what I also, you know, seeing that the kind of leadership that lasts is not loud is generous, just like the women who gave me their time and their wisdom for the interviews

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Anna Radulovski: it multiplies impact by helping others step into their voice. They're giving them a seat at the table, help them see and own their power.

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Anna Radulovski: So I you know, that's kind of leader that I also strive to be, and the kind I hope we all become, because I think that when you lift even one voice you start a ripple that can change everything.

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Melinda Lee: Oh, that's so beautiful! Where's my heart? It's so true, so true. Well, you're obviously doing it, and you're successful at it. You've written your book. And so how can people find and get a hold of your book? Chief in Tech.

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Anna Radulovski: Yeah, absolutely. I mean one of the ways to to get the book is also you can order it's on Amazon, but it's also available at Barnes and noble stores

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Anna Radulovski: in the Us. And then also on my chief intact.com website, my team and I. We kind of gathered all the sources where you can order it's available worldwide. So you can order it in physical. We can get it from a physical store or online. Of course, Amazon is huge, but it's not limited to that, because there are so many also providers that can send you the book, or you can walk in a store and also get it at Barnes and Noble. I also signed. I had, you know, one.

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Anna Radulovski: I went to New York recently, and I went to Barnes and noble stores, and I was signing the book, and it was so exciting, especially the 5th Avenue. It was like a dream come true.

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Melinda Lee: Wow! That's so awesome. Well, congratulations! I'm so grateful. Thank you for your time, your expertise sharing your your knowledge, and, and, more importantly, just like what you do for the community, what you do for the women in technology, and which also is a ripple effect to companies around the world. And so thank you so much, Anna, for your time. It's it was fun.

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Anna Radulovski: Thank you, Melinda. You're a great host.

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Melinda Lee: Fun. I'm glad we actually finally did it.

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Anna Radulovski: Yeah, absolutely.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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Anna Radulovski: Excellent.

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Melinda Lee: And thank you listeners for being here. I trust that you got your golden takeaway and go ahead and implement it right away, so that you can make a positive difference in the world until next time. I'm your sister in flow. Much love. Take care, bye, bye.

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Anna Radulovski: Fine.

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Melinda Lee: Bye-bye.

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Anna Radulovski: Mine.