Tune in and Ignite Your Courageous Spirit With Sushama Kirtikar

Melinda Lee: 00:00:00

Welcome to the speak in flow podcast. I am so

Melinda Lee: 00:00:03

pleased about our topic today around how to communicate

Melinda Lee: 00:00:07

courage on the show is Shama cure Dakar. She brings a wealth

Melinda Lee: 00:00:13

of knowledge she had had a private practice for 32 years

Melinda Lee: 00:00:17

specialising as a mental health counsellor. She currently is a

Melinda Lee: 00:00:21

premier fellow coach at Better U, where she draws on

Melinda Lee: 00:00:25

neuroscience and positive psychology as a professional and

Melinda Lee: 00:00:30

personal coach. Today's episode, she breaks down courage, and the

Melinda Lee: 00:00:36

four components of courage and the challenges around that how

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to communicate courage, and what we can do about it so we can

Melinda Lee: 00:00:44

communicate courage effectively, even when there's chaos and

Melinda Lee: 00:00:48

complexity and fear. I can't wait for you to dive into this

Melinda Lee: 00:00:53

episode. It is amazing. And joy. Hello, Sushama. I'm glad you're

Melinda Lee: 00:01:01

here.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:01:02

Thank you. Thank you, Melinda. I'm really

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:01:04

very happy to be here with you.

Melinda Lee: 00:01:06

Yes, we're going to dive right in. Because I know

Melinda Lee: 00:01:09

that we have a lot to cover all around courage, and how do we

Melinda Lee: 00:01:14

communicate courage, especially in our chaotic time in this

Melinda Lee: 00:01:19

complex world? Let's talk about courage. So I want to know from

Melinda Lee: 00:01:24

your perspective, and from your experience, having been over 32

Melinda Lee: 00:01:29

years, a licenced mental health counsellor? What does courage

Melinda Lee: 00:01:33

mean to you?

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:01:35

Well, you know, when you asked me to think

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:01:38

about a value or a core strength, I give that some

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:01:42

thought. And what I recognised is that there are several

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:01:47

different values that come to my mind. And I use different

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:01:53

strengths at different times, depending on the need of the

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:01:56

hour. What bubbled up for me most organically, was the word

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:02:02

courage. And there was no forethought to it was not as

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:02:07

though I was, you know, mindfully making a decision, my

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:02:11

gut offered it to me as the value to talk about today. So

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:02:16

when I think of courage, what I realised is that I unconsciously

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:02:21

draw upon it. In the course of the day, it could be simple

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:02:26

interactions, making choices, it could be in my general workday.

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Now, courage is described as a virtue that enables us and helps

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:02:40

us exercise our will. And face adversity. This is as defined by

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:02:46

the VR Institute on character. And VR stands for Values in

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:02:50

Action. Now, there are four character strengths that have

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been kind of clustered and grouped underneath this virtue.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:02:58

And they are bravery, honesty, perseverance, and zest. And I

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:03:06

would never have thought that these four would come under

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:03:10

courage. But it makes sense when I recognise how naturally these

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:03:18

are the ones that are elevate at times, throughout, whether it's

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:03:22

throughout the day, or you know, depending on a project I'm

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:03:25

working on, it doesn't matter what. Now, the first one, let's

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:03:30

look at bravery. Bravery, for example, involves perceived

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:03:35

personal risk. So it's like I'm out of my comfort zone. And I

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:03:40

need to take that step, right. However uncomfortable it might

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be, it could be a fear of fear of getting hurt, whether it

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:03:51

means fear of rejection, whatever it might be, and

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:03:56

uncertainty of of the outcome. So the end result may be not

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:04:01

what I hoped for, but are going to push ahead, regardless. So

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:04:08

these three elements even if they are present, it's about me

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:04:13

moving ahead. That is significant for me, as far as

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:04:17

courage is concerned.

Melinda Lee: 00:04:19

I love how you broke that down. And and I love

Melinda Lee: 00:04:22

the description of when you sense there's fear when there's

Melinda Lee: 00:04:26

doubt when we don't know what the line ahead, that's

Melinda Lee: 00:04:30

immediately sending a visceral response in my body right now.

Melinda Lee: 00:04:34

Okay, this is when I could potentially tap into courage,

Melinda Lee: 00:04:39

right? When I'm sensing these visceral feelings that I could

Melinda Lee: 00:04:44

potentially go into fear, more fear, or I can leverage an

Melinda Lee: 00:04:49

opportunity to go into courage, which includes bravery. And so

Melinda Lee: 00:04:54

how, what about other pieces of honesty and you're sure so

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:04:59

So when we look at that, all of these,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:05:04

let's say, bravery itself, it takes on different forms, there

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:05:09

could be moral bravery, where I am standing up for my

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:05:13

principles. Physical, of course, is about facing bodily danger.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:05:20

Psychological is about confronting the fear of making a

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:05:23

wrong decision if you're a failure, of embarrassment, and

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:05:26

so on. And, for example, let's say you're not in alignment with

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:05:31

your peers, your colleagues. And you're still speaking up despite

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:05:37

the possibility of being an outlier. That takes courage. So

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:05:43

you are being who you are. And that's that authenticity piece.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:05:47

So it naturally flows, you are now being authentic, you're

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:05:51

being honest about who you are, and you're speaking your truth.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:05:56

So that's another piece to look at. Perseverance is about again,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:06:06

continuing to push ahead, despite hurdle, despite all

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:06:11

odds, despite criticisms. And you are going to continue to

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:06:18

convey your message. And what's important is the zest piece and

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:06:26

see this was what always, I mean, it took me aback when I

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:06:29

realised that they included zest under courage. And this is, you

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:06:34

know, science that they have used positive psychology really

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:06:38

studied across different cultures across times to put

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:06:43

together these virtues, six different virtues and different

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:06:47

clusters of character strengths that fall under each virtue. So

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:06:50

on the verge of under the virtue of courage, zest, is that

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:06:56

passion, the energy, the enthusiasm that you bring to the

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:00

situation? And for you to be able to make an impact to

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:04

actually influence another individual. Right? You want that

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:08

passion? Yeah, and how difficult that can be? In especially when

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:13

we don't know, right? When we don't know what is about to

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:16

happen? Yes, we don't know what the outcome is.

Melinda Lee: 00:07:20

Yeah,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:20

despite that uncertainty and make sense, you

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:23

go ahead, because you believe in the process, you believe in what

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:28

it is that you are presenting, that is very important. That is

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:32

so important. That means you have to really take a deep dive

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:34

into honesty. And that's why these are so important. The

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:38

honesty and the authenticity of this is who I am, and this is

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:41

what I stand for. Exactly. Amazing. I love that. And and

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:45

what do you think are the key challenges that leaders have

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:49

with communicating courage like this? Well, what I noticed is

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:57

that, you know, leaders naturally, I mean, they are

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:07:59

leaders because they have, you know, exhibited, and they have

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:08:03

engaged courage in order to reach that position. Sometimes,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:08:09

it could be, and this is another interesting piece is the overuse

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:08:15

of strength. Any one of these could be used in excess. So

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:08:21

there is such a thing. It's not like, you know, okay, I'm really

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:08:23

fantastic. And great at this, and I'm really going to power it

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:08:28

up. But sometimes it is to our detriment, bravery, taken to an

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:08:34

extreme could be foolhardiness. So that's when you want to kind

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:08:40

of pause, use the past principle and ask yourself, Okay, wait a

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:08:43

minute, what do I need to do now? So you could look at some

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:08:48

of your basic strengths, which are your middle strengths, or

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:08:51

your lower strengths. And what comes to my mind right now is

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:08:55

judgement, bring up the strength of good judgement, to make a

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:09:00

decision that is sound and rooted in reality. And you're

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:09:06

essentially using critical thinking. So you're using that

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:09:10

critical thinking piece to bring down this, you know, I'm willing

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:09:15

to take a risk, let's just forge ahead. And they're trying to

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:09:18

convince the group that this is the way to go. But maybe they

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:09:22

are overselling. And so it's about that pause principle. Do I

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:09:29

want to listen to other people's inputs? Do I want to hear what

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:09:32

they have to say? So keeping that openness, so you can then

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:09:37

bring in good judgement. So you will that you can pause?

Melinda Lee: 00:09:43

And I need to stop?

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:09:47

Pauses not stop. Right. Sure. And then

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:09:52

moving ahead, right. It's not like you're defeated. You're

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:09:57

actually being very mindful about that. Right? A boss

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:00

principle is just beautiful. So next comes honesty. Honesty

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:06

taken to an extreme can also be detrimental. Sometimes I've had

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:11

clients say to me, you know, my friend tells me that I am honest

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:14

to a fault and to blunt, right? Okay? So just because I'm

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:20

honest, doesn't make that doesn't mean that others are

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:26

open to hearing me out. Yeah, I could be brutal in the way that

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:30

I am being honest. And if I'm hurting somebody else's

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:34

feelings, then they are busy getting defensive, the walls are

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:37

going up. And so what is important, then at that point,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:42

is to look at, well, how can I temper this? Okay, now I can

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:46

pull up on social intelligence, become aware of other people's

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:50

mood? What motivates them? What are their drives, you know, what

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:54

are their emotional responses, paying attention to verbal and

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:10:58

nonverbal clues, cue, sorry. So you're getting out of your own

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:11:02

sphere, to become attuned to the other, right. So you stay

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:11:08

honest. And you don't have to be just simply bulldozing your way

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:11:13

through with that honesty, you could take a pause to check in

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:11:17

and see how it's been received. Yeah, then comes perseverance.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:11:23

Now, this is my Achilles heel. But I can persevere, you know,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:11:29

it's like I'm thinking I've, I'm like, like a dog with a bone,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:11:33

I'm not going to let go. Take it into an extreme might mean that

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:11:38

you're just spinning your wheels doing the same thing over and

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:11:41

over again, without, you know, getting a, you know, you're

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:11:48

expecting a different result, but you're not being successful

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:11:50

at it. And so there is such a thing as continuing to

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:11:55

persevere. fruitless. So that's when I've had to learn this is

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:12:02

to moderate it by pulling up on perspective, which is the

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:12:07

bigger, higher, broader viewpoint to get a bigger

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:12:13

picture, and ask yourself, you know, what, am I getting lost in

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:12:16

here? Why am I so stuck? And so I could be persevering, but then

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:12:23

my wheel is only going in deeper in the mud. If I'm continuing to

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:12:28

accelerate without pausing and looking at what other tools do I

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:12:32

need to get myself out of the ditch that I've stuck myself

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:12:36

there? Right, right. Right, right. So that's an important

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:12:40

piece as well. And then the fourth one of zest, overdoing

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:12:44

zest, can be counterproductive. And you want to soften it with,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:12:50

let's say, humility. So again, you are now

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:12:58

taking a deep breath in making space for others or unions and

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:04

energy.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:06

On the other hand, if your enthusiasm is sort of slowly

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:10

fading, and you're noticing that you're kind of dragging in

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:14

energy as you're going into, you know, whether it's a

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:17

conversation with a group or whoever it might be, you could

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:22

pull up on your higher strength of curiosity, which could help

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:26

show your zest and enthusiasm, because curiosity is just about

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:31

learning about the other viewpoint, the other individual,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:35

the other people's perspectives. And your energies back in. Oh,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:42

yeah, definitely. Yes. I mean, I love just Yeah, drawing on

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:46

curiosity, because especially if our if we noticed that we are

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:50

disengaged, like tapping into curiosity, and how much more

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:54

powerful when we do finally communicate, when we are able to

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:13:59

get curious about the other person, and then communicating

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:14:02

from that space because deeply about where the other person's

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:14:06

at, and then I can frame my what I want to say in a way that is

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:14:10

connected and engaged, and then suddenly, we're back into

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:14:14

engagement and conversation.

Melinda Lee: 00:14:18

Yeah, right. Right. I love that.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:14:21

Yeah, absolutely.

Melinda Lee: 00:14:23

Yeah, I could see how all of these you would think

Melinda Lee: 00:14:27

honesty, perseverance is, the more we have, the better. But at

Melinda Lee: 00:14:32

the same time, like you mentioned, that can be overused,

Melinda Lee: 00:14:35

right. And it also reminds me of the importance of, of people,

Melinda Lee: 00:14:40

they've trusted people that are around me to be able to temper

Melinda Lee: 00:14:43

down or give me feedback and give me some honest perspective.

Melinda Lee: 00:14:48

When I'm able to take that pause or when I do need to take take

Melinda Lee: 00:14:51

that pause to give me some reflection of what might be

Melinda Lee: 00:14:54

happening when I'm overusing because I could see if I'm just

Melinda Lee: 00:14:57

over I find the strength and I keep on using it. I might am

Melinda Lee: 00:14:59

might not see. And so it just reminds me the importance of

Melinda Lee: 00:15:02

having trusted people around us.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:15:04

Yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And more

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:15:08

and more this whole piece about the social connections and

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:15:11

creating, creating rapid rapport is becoming integral for

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:15:18

leadership. Right. Leadership is is, you know, leaders are having

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:15:22

to really learn how to connect with people, other people

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:15:28

matter.

Melinda Lee: 00:15:29

Right. Right. And do it authentically,

Melinda Lee: 00:15:32

meaningfully, especially with the rise of AI and robots

Melinda Lee: 00:15:36

everywhere.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:15:38

Yes, yes. Yes. That's that's a whole different

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:15:42

conversation. Right, right. Oh, my goodness, you exude like you

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:15:47

mentioned, I love that you said that courage just bubbled up

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:15:50

inside, it wasn't something you had to think through just

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:15:52

something that your gut told you.

Melinda Lee: 00:15:55

Because I want you to share if you can share your

Melinda Lee: 00:15:59

your story of how you took courage, personally, and brought

Melinda Lee: 00:16:05

that into your life and how you're able to communicate your

Melinda Lee: 00:16:07

courage and strength with others.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:16:10

Sure, so what's coming to my mind,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:16:13

because this has been, you know, like a very powerful experience

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:16:16

that I had was in 2019, I was diagnosed with cancer, a high

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:16:22

grade sir, coma, the soft tissue in the ankle.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:16:25

And since it was an aggressive cancer, it had to be treated

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:16:31

immediately. And the urgency was being conveyed to me by the very

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:16:37

first psychologist whom I consulted. He gave me options,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:16:44

you know, nothing, you don't do anything, which is not a good

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:16:49

option, or you go through your chemo therapy, radiation

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:16:54

surgeries, the usual sort of route, that cancer treatment in,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:17:02

you know, sort of entails. And then you give me another option

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:17:06

of amputation below the knee. And his recommendation was, that

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:17:14

is your best option is amputation below the knee, I

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:17:20

have not yet. I got chills sort of wrap my head around the

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:17:24

diagnosis of cancer and hear us talking, you know, a drastic

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:17:29

sort of treatment. Now, his premise was that it is to

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:17:36

prevent it from metastasizing and spreading elsewhere. And he

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:17:40

comes from 30 plus years of experience. So he carried a lot

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:17:44

of clout and credibility, I respect but at the same time,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:17:51

what came up for me was this, this was when courage came up.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:17:57

For me, it just sort of rose up most unconsciously, it was not

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:18:01

something premeditated or mindfully acted on. Bravery

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:18:05

literally literally came to my rescue because I stood firm in

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:18:09

my conviction, there again, standing to your, you know, up

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:18:13

to your principles, my conviction that a patient has to

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:18:17

be an informed patient. And so I asked for some credible

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:18:24

resources that I could tap into, to read up on all my different

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:18:29

treatment options. He's Summerlee, just waved aside my

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:18:35

request like that with his hands, saying he would give them

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:18:39

to me after I'd made my decision. And that's when I took

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:18:45

a former stand and pushed for time to research even though the

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:18:50

fear of displeasing my provider was very eminent. I mean, I

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:18:54

could feel it Oh, no, he's going to be upset,

Melinda Lee: 00:18:57

or and it's spreading.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:19:00

And it's spreading. Yeah, he continued to

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:19:04

dismiss my needs as being untimely. That is when I made

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:19:08

the clear announcement that I would be going for a second

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:19:11

opinion. unser uncertainty was their uncertainty of outcome. I

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:19:16

had no idea what this meant. I had I didn't understand the

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:19:21

language of cancer. All I knew is that I needed time for this

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:19:28

to percolate for me to integrate this reality and then to make a

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:19:34

judgement call based on what I thought was the right thing for

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:19:40

me to do it was my body so living by my values was

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:19:47

paramount at that moment. I want to and I want to pursue yes

Melinda Lee: 00:19:52

courage the courage when what you talked about

Melinda Lee: 00:19:54

earlier, so you sense bravery, courage, bravery, okay. You're

Melinda Lee: 00:19:58

getting the sense So there's uncertainty, there's fear. And

Melinda Lee: 00:20:03

so then you're now this courage is bubbling up and then you went

Melinda Lee: 00:20:06

into the honesty of who you are. I'm standing to mine. Exactly.

Melinda Lee: 00:20:11

Then I personally heard I know the person

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:20:13

Even when he continued to say no, oh, I give

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:20:16

you 24 hours. I said, No, that's not enough. He said, Okay, give

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:20:20

you 72 hours. I said, No, that is not enough. And so that was

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:20:27

all happening. In the in that moment, there was no time to

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:20:31

think and reflect and make decisions. I was just going on

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:20:36

my gut. Yeah. And, if you will, there was passion, there was

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:20:41

energy behind all of that, because I was not being soft

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:20:46

spoken, I was just very assertive. So that is something

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:20:54

that I feel. I mean, this is when I look back, I recognise

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:20:59

how it all came to my rescue. But it's because I think I must

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:03

have been practising this over time. And so powerful, it's,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:11

it's just invaluable.

Melinda Lee: 00:21:13

And then what happened.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:16

I ended up getting a second opinion, if you

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:18

want my story, I ended up getting a second opinion. And

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:22

the other the second oncologist, I had a third opinion also lined

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:26

up, which I didn't end up taking, but the second opinion

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:30

turned out to be a limb saving measures. And so I went through

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:34

radiation, very, you know, extensive, strong radiation

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:40

therapy for the ankle, and followed up by multiple

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:44

reconstructive surgeries, where they took a flap from my upper

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:49

arm, I'm sorry, my arm and put it on the ankle that you know

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:54

where the excision was, was done. And then they took another

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:21:57

flap from graft from the thigh to put it on the arm. So it was

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:22:03

all you know, patch work. That was done it just incredible,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:22:09

incredible work. Gratitude goes out to everybody. Good. Oh, my

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:22:17

goodness, what a story. Yeah, yeah. And it really took a

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:22:22

village. I mean, everybody, you know, all my support system,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:22:26

everybody. Yeah.

Melinda Lee: 00:22:29

Thank goodness. I know you're working on a book,

Melinda Lee: 00:22:32

you know, to show the details, but just wanted to let the

Melinda Lee: 00:22:35

audience know, eventually a books going to come out on this

Melinda Lee: 00:22:38

documenting your journey and your courage during this ride.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:22:42

My hope is to create a hybrid memoir, where

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:22:45

I'm sharing the personal story along with applications from

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:22:50

positive psychology. I think that that is very, that would be

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:22:54

helpful. It's kind of like a legacy I'd like to leave behind

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:22:59

for my family, but it touches somebody else, then it's worth

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:23:04

it. Oh, my goodness, I can Yes, I believe it will. And those are

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:23:09

going to touch many lives. Thank you. Thank you so much for

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:23:13

sharing that personal journey and that story of courage.

Melinda Lee: 00:23:17

And I love how we could just break down I can see

Melinda Lee: 00:23:22

all the components of courage come through very clearly.And so

Melinda Lee: 00:23:27

what is your golden community? I this is what I asked all the

Melinda Lee: 00:23:32

guests on us. What is your golden communication tip that

Melinda Lee: 00:23:37

you can share.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:23:38

So So yes, my tip is speak with courage. And

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:23:42

number one, have the bravery to show up, just show up despite

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:23:47

self doubts, fears, misgivings. And this is where I like to

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:23:52

quote Nelson Mandela, who said, I learned that courage was not

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:23:57

the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:24:02

is not he who does not feel afraid. But he who conquers that

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:24:07

fear. And so that's important number to show up authentically,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:24:12

which is being who you are, you can't come prepared. But you do

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:24:17

not have to put on an act, or try to be like someone else.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:24:22

your authentic self is the most unique quality that you possess,

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:24:27

and it's your gift to mankind to humankind. No one else can be

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:24:32

like you. So revel in it and bring your true self to the

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:24:37

situation. Number three, persevere despite all odds and

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:24:41

hurdles, even when the other person is unable to get your

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:24:46

viewpoint or you're not achieving your desired result.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:24:50

Persistent don't give up as Angela Duckworth would say. Grit

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:24:55

is passion and perseverance for very long term goals. So keep at

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:25:01

it when you hit road Blocks, you will prevail. And the fourth

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:25:06

piece being bring enthusiasm and zest with you. That is the way

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:25:11

you're bound to make an impact on others. Your energy can be

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:25:16

both magnetic and electrifying. And when you speak, the other

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:25:21

person hears and listens. And that creates what you were

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:25:25

talking about physiological synchrony because it's believed

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:25:30

that heartbeats and brain signals move in harmony. There

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:25:35

are dual e G's that prove that it's magical. So speak with

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:25:40

courage, and you will move mountains.

Melinda Lee: 00:25:43

I love that. Wow. I like the science behind that to

Melinda Lee: 00:25:48

the dual EEGS when we speak as

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:25:50

I just read about that. scientist, Dr. Sarah

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:25:54

McCabe who talks about, you know, it's just just so full of

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:26:00

neuroscience and positive psychology, I just get drawn to that.

Melinda Lee: 00:26:06

I love and even when you're speaking, I can feel

Melinda Lee: 00:26:09

the love, I can feel the passion and so I'm getting harmonised

Melinda Lee: 00:26:13

with your spirit thank you so much. That was wonderful. I

Melinda Lee: 00:26:17

think that that was I learned so much on how to communicate with

Melinda Lee: 00:26:22

courage, even in this in in when there's fear. Just not because

Melinda Lee: 00:26:26

there's no fear is when there's fear that we are able to tap

Melinda Lee: 00:26:31

into our courage and strength. And so I really, I think that we

Melinda Lee: 00:26:35

have a lot of valuable insight here. And so thank you so much

Melinda Lee: 00:26:39

for sharing that experience, your knowledge and expertise.

Sushama Kirtikar: 00:26:43

Thank you very much for having me.

Melinda Lee: 00:26:45

It was a joy. It was great. Thank you until next

Melinda Lee: 00:26:48

time, I'll see you all the next show. Take care.

Unknown: 00:26:53

Okay,