The "Boulder Effect" for Executive Team Alignment

Welcome, dear listeners, to the Speak and Flow podcast, where we dive into unique stories and strategies to help you and your team achieve maximum potential and flow, even when the stakes are high. Today, I have an amazing, experienced leader. She is known for

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Melinda Lee: High impact or fast response with practical strategies for organizations, leaders, and their teams.

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Melinda Lee: She is Natasha Kimkar. She's the CEO of Melita Advisors. Hi, Natasha, welcome!

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: It's a pleasure to be here, Melinda. Thank you so much for having me.

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Melinda Lee: I'm excited for our conversation, especially in our landscape today. So much is happening, so much change is happening, especially with your expertise in serving, the high-impact rapid response

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Melinda Lee: this is perfect! So I'm excited! So what do you… what are you passionate about in terms of looking forward in the future? What are you excited to see?

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: I am really interested in learning. I, you know, have had a lot of experience, so, you know, almost 30 years now, in different sizes of companies, different parts of the world, and I just realized how much there is still for me to learn, and that gets the juices flowing for me.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, this is like a moment… it's a playground right now. Playground of learning, because so much change is happening, uphills and downhill, and so I think when there's so much stirring, there's a lot that can be done, and that's where learning happens.

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Melinda Lee: I think.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: 100%. I think the, the challenge people have is they may feel overwhelmed.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: When you are directing what you're learning, when you are the one pursuing it, you have a clear path, because you can take it anywhere you want to go.

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Melinda Lee: That's true. So it depends, right? With all the change and upheaval, people… some people might see it as overwhelming, and I think majority of people. So actually, let's start with that conversation. So with all the upheaval and change, what kind of challenges are you seeing or getting stirred up in organizations today?

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: What's been so interesting to me is when there are constraints and pressures that are upon our leaders internally, we see people take one of two paths.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: The first path is one of, really huddling.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And going inside, it is… it tends to be, I'm going to protect my space, I'm going to protect my team. It also brings up a certain level of competition.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Amongst leaders, especially. And of course, that sort of thing permeates the organization, right? And people feel like they need to protect their jobs, they need to protect their reputation.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: So that's one sort of path that we see leaders and then the cultures take. The other path, though, is the one that's most exciting and, frankly, more enjoyable to be a part of, and that is the path where leaders, instead of going inside, open up.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Right? They operate with their peers as a first team. They are thinking about the greater good of the organization. They're not in the mode of protecting themselves or their teams. They're in the mode of doing what's best for the organization.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: In those settings, it's a high opportunity for growth, a high opportunity for learning. It feels more enjoyable because you can be in flow and not have to watch your back. Things like psychological safety come up as, like, non-issues in those environments.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And that is exciting, and it is 150% possible, even when there… or maybe especially when there are constraints and there are pressures on our organizations and our teams. We choose how to respond.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And one can leave us feeling drained, And tired?

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And the other can help us feel like we're getting charged up, and that we have people with us, that we're together, we're in community with others.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, and what do you think about those type of leaders, going back to the one that is more closed? I see a lot of leadership, they tend to, because we're in so much change, if you're at the top, or one of the CEOs, executives.

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Melinda Lee: I think that because there's so much change, they tend… they will go into demanding, commanding. And they… they then, if things don't go their way, will criticize.

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Melinda Lee: Because, it's like, we don't have time to mess around.

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Melinda Lee: And so, then they criticize their rate, and they… I think in their minds, they feel like.

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Melinda Lee: That's going to move people along, or they just want it their way.

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Melinda Lee: And maybe because they are scared, and because there is so much change, so we better, you know, yeah, tell me about that. What do you think about…

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Well, it's very likely their jobs are on the line, too, right? So, let's be real. Look, I would say our team has a very good fortune of working with leaders who have wisdom.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And they have experience, and this isn't the first set of tough times they've encountered in the course of their careers. And so, what we see instead is more of an expansive perspective.

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Melinda Lee: Right. So much of this is mindset.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Yes, there's skill… You know, that we need to build in our leaders and in our organizations. And…

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: and will matters so much as well. Like, the intention, the desire to be of service to a broader purpose, and not in service of yourself and the name you want to make, that doesn't… that only takes you so far.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: But what I find is when leaders bring that intentionality of, actually there's something bigger, and I have a purpose in my life and my career, and they bring that with them, those are the leaders that people want to stick with.

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Melinda Lee: Right.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And that also feeds that good monster, and the leaders feel validated when they do things like that.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And so, it perpetuates a wonderful cycle of people being able to grow together, people being able to go through tough times together. What an incredible bonding experience that is for a team, to be able to go through tough times together and to succeed, not just survive.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Right? That builds resilience for the team as a whole.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah. Have you walked through clients where they were, and particularly, especially if there's a lot of change in that area of being closed, competitive, have you walked them through to the other side?

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Yes, so interestingly, I was actually with a client earlier this week, and we were revisiting some of the early work that we had done. And they were in an environment that was pretty tough.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Quite, you know, I would say demanding, high standards, questioning, why… why is this organization in place, this particular division? These things make people who are in that, in that function feel a little bit, you know.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: scrutiny, stress, am I wanted here? And it makes everything harder, right? Contentious is the kind of the word that kind of comes, kind of comes up.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And the work we did together was actually to craft a purpose for that organization, specifically, and unite it to the broader companies

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: purpose. And so, everyone on the team can see a through line from what they do day-to-day to what the company is doing for its customers.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And its stakeholders. And, and that, it was a starting point.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Right? We also equipped them with some skills on how to pull that through, how to engage in those tough conversations, and aim for a shift in the dynamic that they were experiencing. Because, you know, Melinda, I know you did a session… you need a… you did a podcast… I'm gonna start that again.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Melinda, you did a podcast episode on manifesting.

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Melinda Lee: Huh.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And I want to bring that forward, because

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: when we are in those tough moments, we do have a hand in that tough moment actually existing. I'm not saying it's our fault, I'm not going… I'm not getting into that, but we… we have, to some degree, we have created what's around us.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And in organizations, we do that by what we will tolerate, and what we will, accept, and what we will not accept, and what we will not tolerate.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: The leaders who are in those tough situations, rather than sit there and complain, and whine about it, and commiserate with their team members, or commiserate with peers, which creates more division in organizations.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: the leaders that I was working with.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Had very much a united front amongst themselves, and they recognized that there is such a connection to the overall company's purpose, that as they were moving this forward, they were able to see a shift, not only in the engagement scores for their organization, their own function.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: But the connection that they had with other stakeholders who

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: prior to this would have been a little bit, you know, standoffish to be, you know, would be the nicest way that they would experience it. But frankly, somewhat combative otherwise.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: the connection is much stronger. Even just a year later.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: There is a greater degree of collaboration.

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Melinda Lee: And that feels good.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: If you have the power to manifest that as a leader, why wouldn't you do that? And who wouldn't want to be with you as you do that?

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, definitely. I mean, we, like you said, we have a hand in this, whether it's intentional or not. Like, when situations happen around us, and they're challenging and difficult, I think some people might… could blame the situation, blame other people, and then it starts to spiral into what we call

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Melinda Lee: an environment or, you know, something that reality hits in, and they're actually starting to create it more and more, because they see it more, so then they have a choice of what you said. When a situation happens, do we want to create more of that, or do we want to start to intentionally choose

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Melinda Lee: You know, there's another way to do this. There's another way to look at this. Because there's always different ways to look at a situation. There's multiple ways.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And I'll be, you know, let's be completely upfront, there's a lot of complexity right now, there's a lot of challenge, so I don't want to in any way minimize what leaders are experiencing. That would be… I wouldn't want to do that. And I certainly wouldn't want to shame people for

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: really struggling with the environments they may find themselves in. Yeah. And, okay, maybe you can't change the whole thing. What little piece can shift?

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: What's small… where is your locus of control? What can you shift? What can you think about? How can you reframe things? If you want to stay there, which, you know, we're not seeing a whole lot of movement in some parts in, you know, in some organizations and other organizations, there's a lot of opportunity. Why is that?

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: What are they seeing that we're not seeing? That's the question. Even asking yourself that one question, what is that group seeing that I'm not seeing, opens you up to possibility.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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Melinda Lee: And asking that question, asking our brain to go there. Yes, and I love that, just what is that one little thing that I can do, or what is one little thing that I can shift?

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Melinda Lee: Today, that it is in my control.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Yes, and so now imagine, Melinda, an executive team operating with that mindset.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: What impact would that have on a whole organization? And this is something we're seeing with a number of executive teams, because interestingly, this year in particular, we're seeing a real uptick in executive teams investing in their own team alignment.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: It's very interesting, because the world around us is quite uncertain. Lots of things changes, lots of, you know, hurry up, this is gonna happen, and then we are all on hold.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And executive teams investing in their own development, their own, cohesion.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: how they're going to operate, how they want to show up for the rest of the organization. The ripple effect of that is like putting a boulder in a pond, not a pebble, it's a boulder.

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Melinda Lee: Right.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And the waves go in and out. They don't just spread out. The rest of the organization, they push that energy back to the leadership team.

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Melinda Lee: Gosh.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And it just creates this dynamic where I want to be a part of this. And it's hard, and it's difficult, but I'm with people that I believe in and who believe in me.

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Melinda Lee: Those organizations are not holding back on learning and development for their teams, either.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Sometimes in those constraint moments, we see people pulling back on training, for example, or coaching, and we're seeing them doubling down on it, because the way they're looking at it is, this is an investment for the long term.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah!

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: I want to be around in the long term.

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Melinda Lee: Great.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Our organization to be here.

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Melinda Lee: Right.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: term.

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Melinda Lee: I mean, we should! I mean, this is brilliant, because I think that for… I do that myself. I invest in so much training for myself, because I want to move faster.

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Melinda Lee: I'm like, what can I learn from other people that will help me see things differently to help me move faster? So, and I think that what you're going back to what you're saying, executives, cohesion with executive teams that have a ripple effect. Any team, like a leader, even if you're not an executive, but you're a leader of a team, you have such an impact on other people, and that creates a ripple effect. And so, how do you continue to move in

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Melinda Lee: In spite the chaos and complexity, move faster, because now's the time.

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Melinda Lee: And so I think investment is a great thing, and having some support, right?

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And so much of what, what we're talking about is tied to a lot of what you do as well, right? That, requirement, and I will say it's a requirement of self-reflection as part of our growth as leaders.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Right? To know who you are, to know your voice.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: That's very much what you do, right? You help people find their voice.

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Melinda Lee: And this is… this is an opportunity we have for our leaders now, especially… this is when it matters.

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Melinda Lee: Right? This is exactly the time it matters. When you are able to know yourself, and you are reflecting on.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: who you've been, how you've grown, where have been those moments where you sort of did a leap, not a step forward?

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: You can repeat that. You can share those experiences with your team, and because they're yours, they're your story, when you tell them to people, they grow with you. They learn from your mistakes. It's the cheapest way to, to make a mistake is learn from somebody else's, right?

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: I'm gonna make some… learn from somebody else's mistakes so I don't have to do it myself. It's low cost, low investment. When leaders share those failure moments, or they share their reflections on their own growth, their own gaps with their teams.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: It's a very powerful moment of connection, and it's a very powerful moment of them investing in their people.

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Melinda Lee: Right.

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Melinda Lee: I love that. And what is… I'm so curious, because you've been doing this for, like you said, 30 years, what is one of your most…

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Melinda Lee: Memorable, like, story that you just… love.

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Melinda Lee: A story that you could share about your experience, or how you got started that you just love.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: So… I'm gonna think about this for a second, Melinda, just give me a minute, okay?

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, we could pause it.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Yeah.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And you want a learning moment that I had in my career?

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Melinda Lee: Yeah, or some… yeah, that would be good.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: So, I have an example that's a… it's a learning moment in my career.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: You know, I was with an organization where we had the unfortunate experience of having to do 3 layoffs in the course of 18 months.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And,

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: I'm very steady. This is why, like, my nickname, right, Rapid Response Expert. I'm very steady when things get into crisis mode and chaos.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: I'm very, like, I can be very single-minded, we're gonna move forward, and we're gonna do… and we're gonna be fine, we're gonna win. I'm confident, and I'm very, very certain

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: That we're on the right path.

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Melinda Lee: And I don't do that without talking to people, obviously, but once the leadership team sets a path, and in this case.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: once our exec team had set the path, I was certain we were gonna be successful. I don't let… I don't bring doubt in. We're gonna do it, that's it.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And one of my peers said to me.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Why aren't you more stressed out? Why aren't you more nervous?

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Melinda Lee: You should be really freaked out right now.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: We have to do the third layoff in 18 months!

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And I looked at him, and I said.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: If I was nervous, you all should be running for the hills.

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Melinda Lee: You should be… you should be really scared if I'm nervous.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: For years, Melinda, I thought that that was a great response.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Because I was signaling, like, I got this. I'm steady, you can lean on me, I'm steady, and it's okay. And it was also, it's a good sassy response, right? It's got a little bit of, snap in it.

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Melinda Lee: Yes.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And… I had a realization just, like, 2-3 years ago.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: That it was an arrogant response.

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Melinda Lee: Hmm.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And it lacked humility.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And it was insensitive.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Because what this person was telling me was, I'm freaking out.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: I don't think this is gonna work. I'm worried.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And instead of acknowledging and validating what they were feeling.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: I was like, buck up, Buttercup, we got this.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah. And it's fine, and we'll go forward, and we're gonna be fine, and I will carry you all on my back.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: I'm sorry, did I need to be a hero in that moment?

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: maybe not that exact moment, right? Like, that's… maybe that was,

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: it was, not the kindest thing that I could have done, and that was a big learning for me, to reflect on that experience and realize that… and they didn't hate me for it, like, it didn't… it wasn't a contentious moment, or one of struggle, but, realizing that

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: I had an opportunity to make that person feel heard.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And to acknowledge that those feelings that they were having, that they were asking me to have, were absolutely normal.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And I missed that chance.

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Melinda Lee: Well, think the person helped you to realize that.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: I think so.

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Melinda Lee: So, yes, yes.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Sometimes the lessons need to go on a shelf for a little while, and when they're done percolating, that's when we get the value out of them, so…

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: this is one of the reasons why I say, like, reflection is such an important component of our leadership. But yeah, that happened… that happened, oh, probably about 8 years ago now. It's not… it wasn't yesterday.

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Melinda Lee: What a great story. I love that, because I could see your fire, and I could see your willingness to just have everybody hold you, you carry people on your back. What a great image and visual, but it's also at the same time, for you, you're so focused, right? And you just have them, you've got them, and I think that was probably your intention. You know that you're gonna win.

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Melinda Lee: But then at the same time, sometimes, yeah, giving that space for other people that are just not feeling similarly.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Right.

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Melinda Lee: That's the learning, and that's right. And I think as, as we continue to go through change, we are… we can always learn about that. Like, not everybody's gonna feel and think the same way, and behave the same way.

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Melinda Lee: how do we, and which… which does sometimes take a little bit longer, how do we bring other people along? And I think sometimes people do get impatient, too, when people are not coming along as fast as we'd like them to be. So, I think… And I think…

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: I think, too, Melinda, like, it's an opportunity to also let people feel whatever they're feeling and not try to fix it, right? Like, it wasn't a bit parental of me to say, don't worry, we got this, or coach, coach in the athletic coach sense.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: approach to say, go, go, go, keep going.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Or, you know, can I allow an adult to be an adult and have a feeling, and have an emotion, have an experience? So there's a lot of learning that came out of that one.

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Melinda Lee: I love that. Thank you for sharing that. And so, before we close, can you share with the audience what is that one leadership golden takeaway that you'd like them to remember?

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Stay curious.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: I know, you know, people say that all the time, and it just… for me, it's about…

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: just for a second, withhold judgment, so whatever the, I like that, or no, I don't like that, just hold off.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And try to spend some time to understand. Ask really good questions. Ask genuine questions.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And then allow that, you know, assessment or evaluative element of your brain come in. But curiosity is such a blessing, it's such a gift.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: And we discover so much about the people around us, ourselves, the way things connect or don't connect, when we stay curious.

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Melinda Lee: I love that. I love how you brought in the judgment, or the assumptions that we can come up

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Melinda Lee: so quickly with, but allowing to stay curious, actually, for some reason, I connected to that a little deeper today, because staying curious allows us to connect inward, maybe give it a little bit more time and space on how we are reacting, or how our body, or what are we thinking, really, before the brain, because the brain is so fast.

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Melinda Lee: The brain is gonna, like, make decisions very quickly, and oftentimes, we don't allow our whole body alignment to be immersed in the experience of it by being curious, and then seeing how other people are also

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Melinda Lee: reacting, like… I mean, because we're just constantly on the go, so it's hard… it's challenging, so thank you for that.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: Agent.

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Melinda Lee: of being curious in lots of…

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Melinda Lee: Ways to immerse ourselves in the situation.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: It's so important to me, it's actually one of our company values.

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Melinda Lee: Awesome.

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Melinda Lee: I love that.

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Melinda Lee: That's great, it's beautiful. Oh, thank you, Natasha. Thank you so much for the time and the conversation today. I think we can go on for so long on this, it's exciting. It's really fun. I am excited for where companies and organizations are go… going, especially with those

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Melinda Lee: The ones that you and I love to work with, the ones that are investing, the ones that are bringing people along, that are on a bigger mission, that are… that's bigger than themselves.

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Melinda Lee: And those that are just here to make a difference in the world, I think that those are the people that you and I like to work with, and it's exciting to see where it's going.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: 100%, 100%.

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Melinda Lee: Yeah. Well, thank you so much, and thank you, audience, for being here. I trust that you got your golden takeaway, and so implement it right away.

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Melinda Lee: do some difference, make some difference, make a change, and if you are speaking to someone, remember, you're not just using your words, you're also connecting and having, a chance to make an influence in their lives. So, until next time, thank you so much. I'm your sister in flow. Take care. Bye-bye.

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Melinda Lee: Thank you, Natasha.

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Natasha Kehimkar | she-her: It's a pleasure.

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Melinda Lee: Right.