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She has a book that just launched, Shedding Lies: Living Beyond Childhood Trauma. It is her story of trauma and healing, how it led her to her work in special education and school mental health/wellness, and is now an advocate for individuals with special needs and their families.
About the Guest:
Dr. Anne Katona Linn is a passionate Educational Coach and Leader who has dedicated her career to helping schools and communities develop safe, supportive and positive school climates for children and teachers. She’s received multiple awards for her expertise in classroom management, mental health & special education.
Book: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BXLVBDJP
Website: www.katonalinnconsulting.com
Email: anne@katonalinnconsulting.com
About the Host:
Saylor Cooper is an inspirational figure who has begun his journey in Entrepreneurship to overcome the challenges of making a living with a disability and to demonstrate that it indeed it is possible by putting in hard work despite living with challenges! He is the creator / Host of Real Variety Radio, an internet radio station that offers a great variety of programming from all Genres of music and shows, along with the Hope Without Sight Podcast that features guests who have overcome diverse challenges and are an inspiration to the world. Of course, Saylor is not sure what is in store, but he is extremely excited for what is to come. His future goals include getting booked to speak on different types of stages and write a collaborative book with his podcast guests. Below is his contact card, which includes his website and socials:
https://ovou.me/livefasetiyacehe
About the Co-host:
My name is Matthew Tyler Evans and I am from the Northeast Texas area. I am blind like Saylor is and we have the same retinal condition. I decided to join Saylor‘s podcast because I have a strong interest in teaming up with him and I think together, we can inspire the world with others with disabilities.
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Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of
Saylor Cooper:Hope Without Sight with your host Saylor Cooper.
Tyler Evans:And your co host, Tyler Evans
Saylor Cooper:I see that you're a passionate educational coach
Saylor Cooper:and leader in you have dedicated your career to helping schools
Saylor Cooper:and communities that safe and supportive and positive school
Saylor Cooper:climates for children and teachers, and you've received
Saylor Cooper:multiple awards for your expertise in the classroom
Saylor Cooper:management, management and mental health and special
Saylor Cooper:education. And so, let's get started. Tell me about yourself.
Saylor Cooper:What got you doing this?
Dr Anne Katona:Yeah, well, thanks for having me, Saylor.
Dr Anne Katona:I'm excited to be here. So I have my own story of childhood
Dr Anne Katona:trauma. And my book actually was launched officially on Tuesday.
Dr Anne Katona:And it's been in the number one categories across several
Dr Anne Katona:categories. So it's exciting and on Amazon. And so I have, you
Dr Anne Katona:know, the childhood trauma that I suffered, I didn't really
Dr Anne Katona:understand it until much later in my life. And, you know, it
Dr Anne Katona:was about my 30s. And I, I used my degree was in physical
Dr Anne Katona:therapy, athletic training. And I love doing that I love working
Dr Anne Katona:with kids, especially with kids with special needs. And I did a
Dr Anne Katona:lot of internships in schools, and just loved it. And then even
Dr Anne Katona:as doing some athletic training, I was working a lot in schools.
Dr Anne Katona:And I just based on, you know, kind of my own experiences that
Dr Anne Katona:again, I didn't really explore yet. I just loved working in
Dr Anne Katona:schools. And what happened was, I went to a retreat and really
Dr Anne Katona:kind of had this awakening of, Oh, I really struggled a lot
Dr Anne Katona:more than I thought I knew I had post traumatic stress disorder
Dr Anne Katona:as a kid, but didn't really understand how that really
Dr Anne Katona:impacted me. And I just really started looking at my trauma
Dr Anne Katona:that I had been through. And because I had physical health
Dr Anne Katona:issues, so that was another piece that really kind of had an
Dr Anne Katona:impact. And all of those things together, I looked at the
Dr Anne Katona:trauma. And so I started working with kids with developmental
Dr Anne Katona:disabilities, and especially with kids with behaviour
Dr Anne Katona:problems, and just really felt like I connected to them, like,
Dr Anne Katona:I got them. And I felt like I understood what they were going
Dr Anne Katona:through. And what I realised I was naturally good at it. I
Dr Anne Katona:think because of the empathy I had, because of my own
Dr Anne Katona:experiences, and, and I was, you know, bullied for reasons as a
Dr Anne Katona:kid and, you know, again, struggled really with anxiety
Dr Anne Katona:and post traumatic stress disorder, and always felt like
Dr Anne Katona:something was wrong with me. And so I tried to really cover it up
Dr Anne Katona:on the outside. Yeah, I'm in my early 30s, I just decided that I
Dr Anne Katona:you know, once I started working with kids and working, I was
Dr Anne Katona:working with a behaviour analyst, I decided I wanted to
Dr Anne Katona:pursue this more and ended up getting my master's in special
Dr Anne Katona:education. And a big piece of that was because I wanted to
Dr Anne Katona:figure myself out in addition to, you know, because I felt
Dr Anne Katona:like I was naturally good at it. So I, you know, started working
Dr Anne Katona:with kids and just really loved it. And like I said, was
Dr Anne Katona:naturally good at it. I worked a lot in the community with
Dr Anne Katona:families and children, kids with autism and more severe
Dr Anne Katona:disabilities. And, you know, really focusing on helping them
Dr Anne Katona:to be more included in regular environments. And yes, you know,
Dr Anne Katona:just living a more successful life. And I know that it can be
Dr Anne Katona:just one little thing that can have such a huge impact on the
Dr Anne Katona:kids. Like there were things for me that now in hindsight, I
Dr Anne Katona:could see were really helpful. And so I wanted to kind of make
Dr Anne Katona:it safe for kids, and help the kids and their families be more
Dr Anne Katona:successful across all environments. And so, you know,
Dr Anne Katona:in teaching, and I really gravitated towards those kids
Dr Anne Katona:with emotional behaviour disorders, as well as kids with
Dr Anne Katona:autism. And like I said, more severe disabilities, and helping
Dr Anne Katona:them just to be included and to live life the way everyone does,
Dr Anne Katona:you know, and so I that really was the beginning and the last
Dr Anne Katona:25 ish 30 years. I guess it's been now that I've been working
Dr Anne Katona:with kids and their families and schools and In the last actually
Dr Anne Katona:20 years, especially I've been working in schools, because as
Dr Anne Katona:you know, as I was teaching and, and working in schools, I
Dr Anne Katona:realised that a lot of teachers don't get a whole lot of
Dr Anne Katona:training on some of these things without
Saylor Cooper:Because We do need inclusivity. Because Tyler,
Saylor Cooper:she can relate to you tell her your story of how they wanted to
Saylor Cooper:resource classes and all that technical way. So,
Tyler Evans:yeah. So basically, when I was young, they wanted me
Tyler Evans:and resource classes, because they did not teach me. And so my
Tyler Evans:mom what she did, she went to workshops with this advocacy
Tyler Evans:group, I'm not exactly sure the name of it, but basically, they
Tyler Evans:educated her on the fact that I can be in regular classes,
Tyler Evans:because the only disability I had was blindness.
Dr Anne Katona:wow
Saylor Cooper:yeah. Wow. Exactly.
Dr Anne Katona:Yeah, I mean, I worked a lot with even people
Dr Anne Katona:with cerebral palsy. And that's another kind of thing, it just
Dr Anne Katona:because they may have severe disabilities, that doesn't mean
Dr Anne Katona:that they aren't smart, and they're their brain is, you
Dr Anne Katona:know, they're made, it's just that they can't communicate, it
Dr Anne Katona:can't get out of their body. And so, you know, some of those
Dr Anne Katona:things are,
Saylor Cooper:it's fine.
Dr Anne Katona:That breaks my heart,
Saylor Cooper:I find that the school systems underestimate for
Saylor Cooper:no reason. A lot of times, it's not Not good, not good.
Dr Anne Katona:Yeah. Yeah. Well, part of it is, you know,
Dr Anne Katona:and I found that out, as a lot of teachers have, they want to
Dr Anne Katona:help, but they don't necessarily have the tools. So that's kind
Dr Anne Katona:of why I ended up, I train teachers, and I help the school
Dr Anne Katona:leaders. Because, you know, when I continue to advocate for youth
Dr Anne Katona:and families, because not only do I have my own experiences,
Dr Anne Katona:I'm also a family member, we have lots of different things
Dr Anne Katona:that our family members have, and I want to be an advocate.
Dr Anne Katona:And so, you know, that it's teachers have a lot of and
Dr Anne Katona:school leaders want, they didn't get into this job because of the
Dr Anne Katona:money, obviously. And so, you know, they lack often the tool.
Dr Anne Katona:So I really, that's kind of why I committed so much of my career
Dr Anne Katona:to really focusing on training them and helping them to feel
Dr Anne Katona:safe. Because a lot of times people get into the field,
Dr Anne Katona:because they may have struggles of their own and they want to
Dr Anne Katona:help. You know, they didn't, they didn't necessarily have the
Dr Anne Katona:tools so and
Saylor Cooper:as part of making school safe, you also help to
Saylor Cooper:prevent bullying and all that. Yep,
Dr Anne Katona:absolutely. That is 100. And as I mentioned
Dr Anne Katona:earlier, I was bullied in a variety of different ways. And I
Dr Anne Katona:talked about some of those different books. I when I was in
Dr Anne Katona:fourth grade, I was I was taller. And I was very athletic.
Dr Anne Katona:And I was pretty and there were eighth grade boys who they
Dr Anne Katona:called, they gave me a nickname skin didn't know what it meant.
Dr Anne Katona:And I didn't understand it really. I just knew the way they
Dr Anne Katona:looked at me. And the way they were, they just talked to me and
Dr Anne Katona:just said the word I just felt like dirty. And so you know, to
Dr Anne Katona:me, I mean, that was really sexual harassment. But you know,
Dr Anne Katona:other ways I was bullied, you know, I was bullied. When I
Dr Anne Katona:first went to high school, there were senior girls who just, you
Dr Anne Katona:know, would follow me and they, you know, again, I was tall for
Dr Anne Katona:my age, and they gave me just nasty looks, and they threatened
Dr Anne Katona:me and you know, they told me to stay away from this one guy who
Dr Anne Katona:is interested in me who happened to be a boyfriend of one of the
Dr Anne Katona:seniors. And you know, I had no control over but I was kind of I
Dr Anne Katona:was the target of that. So, you know, those were just some
Dr Anne Katona:examples. You know, even as an adult, I've been bullied, you
Dr Anne Katona:know, we can be excluded from things you know, when we we feel
Dr Anne Katona:like someone is pushing us out or or other people are talking
Dr Anne Katona:about us and kind of getting others to join in on talking
Dr Anne Katona:about someone that you know, is bullying, you know, it's so it's
Dr Anne Katona:it's exclusion and a lot of they call it like the Mean Girls,
Dr Anne Katona:that's definitely been something you know, someone is intimidated
Dr Anne Katona:by you and they talk about you behind your back and try to get
Dr Anne Katona:others to be against you. That's bullying.
Saylor Cooper:Yeah, for sure. That's not good. At God's
Saylor Cooper:gossiping and it's not good.
Dr Anne Katona:Yeah, yeah. And it happens a lot more than we
Dr Anne Katona:realise I think that, you know, again, a lot of people, one of
Dr Anne Katona:the things that I always say is hurt people hurt people. So when
Dr Anne Katona:you've been through your own pain and you don't really deal
Dr Anne Katona:with that you're more likely to injure others, even if you don't
Dr Anne Katona:realise that that's what's happening.
Saylor Cooper:And then also, like, if you don't mind me
Saylor Cooper:asking you like, what? blinging or what?
Dr Anne Katona:I lost your mic for just a quick second
Dr Anne Katona:question. Yeah, yeah, I can hear you now. But we're just repeat
Dr Anne Katona:your question again,
Saylor Cooper:if you don't mind me asking you what cause your
Saylor Cooper:truck childhood trauma, like was it just a dysfunctional
Saylor Cooper:upbringing, like what? What was
Dr Anne Katona:yeah, um, I do go into detail in the book. But
Dr Anne Katona:I actually, the one specific thing was a car accident. So I
Dr Anne Katona:was in a car accident, and I went through the windshield with
Dr Anne Katona:my face, and had lots of damage to my face. I was four years
Dr Anne Katona:old. At the time, they wouldn't allow families to stay with,
Dr Anne Katona:with kids in the hospital. This was the policy of the hospital.
Dr Anne Katona:So I was in the hospital for a week, without my family, they
Dr Anne Katona:were only allowed to visit for two hours a day for visiting
Dr Anne Katona:hours. And then they would drive us around in this little red
Dr Anne Katona:waggon to distract us so that our families could sneak out.
Dr Anne Katona:And so that further, you know, the hospital system further
Dr Anne Katona:traumatised me. Then when I got home, it was 1970. We didn't
Dr Anne Katona:talk about stuff it was, let's, let's not talk about it. If it
Dr Anne Katona:doesn't come up, it'll you know, we'll just it'll go away. And
Dr Anne Katona:that doesn't happen.
Saylor Cooper:We have to talk we have to talk about it.
Saylor Cooper:Because there's a saying now talk saves lives.
Dr Anne Katona:Oh, absolutely. You know, and that's kind of my
Dr Anne Katona:mission is that I'm always about I want to make it safe for
Dr Anne Katona:people to be able to talk and share who they are. And not
Dr Anne Katona:just, you know, as as, as a way to kind of be Oh, woe is me.
Dr Anne Katona:It's okay, let's talk about it. So we can then figure out what
Dr Anne Katona:are your gifts? What are your specialties? What are your
Dr Anne Katona:strengths? How can we you know, take what you've been through,
Dr Anne Katona:and make it your message and make it a positive. So it's, you
Dr Anne Katona:know, for me, my message is my message.
Saylor Cooper:So yeah, your message your message? Yeah. And
Saylor Cooper:so, wow. And I imagine you also where I don't like what's going
Saylor Cooper:on with schools is all the school shootings that are
Saylor Cooper:happening. Are you helping to prevent further those?
Dr Anne Katona:Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I, I was a state
Dr Anne Katona:Project Director for Safe Schools, healthy students. And
Dr Anne Katona:that came out of the Sandy Hook in the Columbine shooting. So it
Dr Anne Katona:was a big federal grant that came out of the Sandy Hook and
Dr Anne Katona:Columbine shootings, Pennsylvania received that, and
Dr Anne Katona:I was the state Project Director for that, and what we, you know,
Dr Anne Katona:one of the big things, we had permission to really go across
Dr Anne Katona:systems and all work together. But the big focus of that was to
Dr Anne Katona:do prevention, rather than waiting until things happen.
Dr Anne Katona:Let's look at, okay, what are all the signs and signals? And
Dr Anne Katona:how can we promote a more positive environment so that
Dr Anne Katona:we're preventing some of these, you know, we want to prevent
Dr Anne Katona:bullying and school violence and suicide and other mental health
Dr Anne Katona:crises. So we have to, it's easier to prevent things rather
Dr Anne Katona:than waiting until they're happening. You know, they're
Dr Anne Katona:harder to they're harder to deal with. And then COVID kind of
Dr Anne Katona:added to that, you know, yeah. You know, so yeah, that's a big.
Dr Anne Katona:So when the state grant ended, I basically wanted to continue
Dr Anne Katona:doing that work. I focus more on schools and districts, rather
Dr Anne Katona:than kind of working at the larger state level, I really
Dr Anne Katona:mean to the buildings, and really working with the
Dr Anne Katona:stakeholders, wherever they are, and helping it to fit. You know,
Dr Anne Katona:it's not a cookie cutter approach. It's about how can we
Dr Anne Katona:make sure it fits what the strengths and needs are? And the
Dr Anne Katona:opportunities of that environment? You know, that
Dr Anne Katona:community? So?
Saylor Cooper:For sure, yes. And See also so you're you're
Saylor Cooper:you're preventing you're helping prevent school shootings,
Saylor Cooper:suicide, which is great. Because the stuff has happened too many
Saylor Cooper:times. You see, you know, you heard about the shooting we had
Saylor Cooper:in you Valley last year.
Dr Anne Katona:Yes, yeah. It just is. It's heartbreaking. And
Dr Anne Katona:one of the key things is that everybody has to work together.
Dr Anne Katona:You know, one of my biggest frustrations is that everybody
Dr Anne Katona:works in silos. And so we're not able to really do the best we
Dr Anne Katona:can we wasted a lot of time and energy and money. And, you know,
Dr Anne Katona:it's become political but really, if We all work together
Dr Anne Katona:and really get on the ground and kind of look at what can we do
Dr Anne Katona:rather than just admiring the problem or leaving it to
Dr Anne Katona:politicians to kind of put things in place. It's what's
Dr Anne Katona:going to happen that we can, you know, it needs to be grassroots.
Dr Anne Katona:And so that's really what I love to do is help kind of those
Dr Anne Katona:grassroots changes happen. Who show
Saylor Cooper:yes, definitely for sure. And you're doing great
Saylor Cooper:work. And so I don't believe I have any more questions for you,
Saylor Cooper:except one. Have you worked with blind students at all? No, not
Saylor Cooper:really.
Dr Anne Katona:I haven't Not. Not. I've had, I've worked more
Dr Anne Katona:in multiple disability classrooms. Yeah, so with more
Dr Anne Katona:of a variety of things. And so, you know, when I work in those
Dr Anne Katona:environments, again, I really, because I'm a behaviour analyst,
Dr Anne Katona:and because of my trauma, actually, my trauma made me a
Dr Anne Katona:good observer. And not just observer with my eyes. I'm an
Dr Anne Katona:I'm really in tune to picking up on subtle things that maybe
Dr Anne Katona:other people may not. And so me, that helps me to, to look at no
Dr Anne Katona:matter what the disability is, and no matter what the
Dr Anne Katona:exceptionality is, I like calling them exceptionalities.
Dr Anne Katona:Because it's, they're not, you know, it's not a disability, per
Dr Anne Katona:se, and that you have so many other strengths, that, that
Dr Anne Katona:really can can counteract anything that we're struggling
Dr Anne Katona:with, you know, how can we look at those things that we're
Dr Anne Katona:really good at? So for me, that I love, being able to look at
Dr Anne Katona:and problem solve. So no matter what the situation is, I I've
Dr Anne Katona:and the kids that I've worked with in the past are the adults,
Dr Anne Katona:let's look at whatever it is. And if there's not a solution,
Dr Anne Katona:let's think outside of the box, like, let's not get stuck on,
Dr Anne Katona:these are the things that are available, let's create stuff.
Dr Anne Katona:Let's make it more, you know, let's find a problem, not just
Dr Anne Katona:engaged, not just like, oh, well, here's the solution. No,
Dr Anne Katona:let's create, let's create the solution to the problem. We have
Dr Anne Katona:to think outside of the box. And I think that's one of my
Dr Anne Katona:specialties is that I am an out of the box thinker, and help
Dr Anne Katona:schools to really look at things in ways that they may have not,
Dr Anne Katona:and not just schools, communities, because I really
Dr Anne Katona:focus on working with schools, communities, and all of the
Dr Anne Katona:older isn't especially youth, like we need to get kids and
Dr Anne Katona:adults, you know, whoever they are, we need to hear their
Dr Anne Katona:voices more. And they need to guide what we do rather than
Dr Anne Katona:just telling them what we're going to do for them.
Saylor Cooper:For sure. For sure. Self Determination. Huge.
Saylor Cooper:Yes. Huge. And I've always had self determination. Yeah, yeah.
Saylor Cooper:And so last but not least, what is your book called? And where
Saylor Cooper:can people find it?
Dr Anne Katona:It is shedding lies living beyond childhood
Dr Anne Katona:trauma, and it is on Amazon. And I can share the link with you on
Dr Anne Katona:on your Facebook post if you want. But yeah, and also, you
Dr Anne Katona:could go to my website, www Katona, law, Lynn
Dr Anne Katona:consulting.com. And I have a few other podcasts that I've done.
Dr Anne Katona:And I have another book that I did, I did a book depression
Dr Anne Katona:like to meet what I do have a chapter in a book. And then I
Dr Anne Katona:have another book that will be coming out a podcast I just did
Dr Anne Katona:in December, just came out yesterday. And it talks more
Dr Anne Katona:about kind of the abuse that I experienced the one I mentioned
Dr Anne Katona:earlier, you know, like that sexual abuse kind of thing and
Dr Anne Katona:how that impacts not just that sexual, but you know, different
Dr Anne Katona:ways that you're bullied in environments, and abuse that you
Dr Anne Katona:just that are kind of part of our culture. And so anyway,
Dr Anne Katona:those are all on my website, and you know, more things to come.
Dr Anne Katona:So you can sign up for my email list and I have some freebies on
Dr Anne Katona:my website as well. And yeah, but Amazon, my book, shedding
Dr Anne Katona:lies living beyond childhood trauma is
Saylor Cooper:if you could put all this in the chat Shakur put
Saylor Cooper:in the show notes that be great.
Dr Anne Katona:Yep, absolutely.
Saylor Cooper:Right. So, Tyler, do you have any other questions
Saylor Cooper:for guests? Because if not, we can wrap up with our customary
Saylor Cooper:ending, so it's all yours?
Tyler Evans:Um, I don't think I do. I feel that your story is
Tyler Evans:pretty inspiring, pretty inspirational. I feel that all
Tyler Evans:of us have an inspirational story to tell the fact that we
Tyler Evans:are even alive. As inspirational.
Dr Anne Katona:Yeah. Yeah, thanks. And we need to, you
Dr Anne Katona:know, again, we have to make sure to remember that, you know,
Dr Anne Katona:I always thought my story didn't matter. Like it wasn't big
Dr Anne Katona:enough. And no matter what if one person is influenced by our
Dr Anne Katona:story, we need to share it. So that's right to me. We all
Dr Anne Katona:you're right, you know, we all need to share our stories, and
Dr Anne Katona:we all need to get them out there. So Saylor, thank you so
Dr Anne Katona:much for what you guys are doing. You know, I love it. And
Dr Anne Katona:I'm just really honoured and happy to be on your web page.
Dr Anne Katona:So, thank you so much. I've just shared all the info in the chats.
Saylor Cooper:I'm just not doing podcasts. I'm gonna be
Saylor Cooper:speaking as well. I'm sure you heard a flight King. I'm working
Saylor Cooper:with her. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, title. Please, do a
Saylor Cooper:customary ending
Tyler Evans:voice. Okay. So what do you say to those who
Tyler Evans:feel they have no hope right now. But like, they don't know
Tyler Evans:where to go?
Dr Anne Katona:Yeah. Like I said, you know, my book,
Dr Anne Katona:definitely, I really tried to get across that there is hope,
Dr Anne Katona:no matter what, and, and that one of the things we have to
Dr Anne Katona:shift is, you know, what are the lies that we tell ourselves, we
Dr Anne Katona:tell ourselves a story. And we say, you know, mine was,
Dr Anne Katona:something's wrong with me. I'm not worthy. I tried to hide it.
Dr Anne Katona:But that was really what was the core of what was going on. And I
Dr Anne Katona:had to look at what was the truth. And the truth were that I
Dr Anne Katona:had people that loved me, I can't look at every little
Dr Anne Katona:negative thing that you know, people were saying about me, I
Dr Anne Katona:had to kind of really hang on to those people. And keep safe
Dr Anne Katona:people around me who are those people that support you? Who are
Dr Anne Katona:those people that love you and care about you? And keep those
Dr Anne Katona:people around you? And don't let the lies from others and and
Dr Anne Katona:that we tell ourselves don't let them overtake those things that
Dr Anne Katona:you know the people that love us. So there's there's always
Dr Anne Katona:hope in that if there's not a solution, we've got to look for
Dr Anne Katona:it. We've got to keep looking. Don't give up. And there are a
Dr Anne Katona:lot of us out there. It's just connect with people who are who
Dr Anne Katona:have like mine, you know, like minded inspiration for you.
Saylor Cooper:So because we are mad, are you mad? Absolutely.
Dr Anne Katona:100% That's right.
Saylor Cooper:Wow. Dr. Anne Katona thank you for being on
Saylor Cooper:the show today.
Dr Anne Katona:Thanks so much for having me. It's been great.
Saylor Cooper:Yeah, stay blessed everybody.
