How Can You Budget Without Feeling Limited?

Truly a budget gives you permission to spend. That's what our budget does. We don't know what other people's budgets are doing, but we're giving you permission to spend money, and to know that you have money to spend when you want to spend it, and actually also to know where that money is coming from. Like, instead of just hoping, swiping and hoping that everything's gonna work out, you're gonna actually know I have money for this. I have money for that.

All right, friends, get ready, because today we are talking about the B word. I'll just let your imagination go as to what that might mean, but it's not what you think. Actually, I am joined here by Shaina and Vanessa, who are the budget besties. They are best friends turned business partners who teach ambitious women how to automate their money without shame spreadsheets or sacrifice. Those are all three things I really dislike, so I'm so excited for this conversation. These gals are master financial coaches with a simple system that turns your bank into your personal assistant so you can pay your bills, enjoy your life, and still do the Bougie things without relying on credit cards. So if you're making good money but wondering where it all goes, then this episode is for you. Hi, ladies.

Hi Kelly, thanks for having us.

Yep, we're let's get into this b word. We're so excited.

This is going to be so great. I have been doing something fun on the show lately with guests, and then it's to like, say, I shall hand you a soapbox now. Step on. What would you like to say? What do you want everyone to know if they don't listen past the first five minutes of this episode. What is your legacy that you need to share?

Okay, so I'll start, and then I'll just let Shana fill in. I think that there's three things that you could take away from having a wonderful budget. So yes, the B word means budget, but it's not spoiler. It's not restrictive. It's not this. Know that you can't have things. It is simple on one page. It is separate and organized, and it's automated. Like, think about having a budget that allows you the freedom to have something simple, separate and automated.

Yeah, and real quick, just to kind of pile on to that, since we're on the soapbox, it's a small soapbox, but we're standing on it together. Is, you know, a lot of people think that they have a spending problem, an overspending problem, or they're bad with money. It's not true. It's not true. What we found out, or what we've decided, is it's really just an organization problem, and because modern day finances, money management, there's so many things going on that never used to be, right? It's so much more complicated. There's more bills, there's more payments, there's more credit cards, there's more different all kinds of things. And so it's very easy to feel like you're over. It's overwhelming, and you're the problem. You're not the problem. But what we need to do, and that's hopefully what some of what we'll talk about today, is use the modern digital tools to your advantage, to make it easy, make it simple, like Vanessa said, to separate everything and then to make it automatic. Okay, listen, by the end of this, we're going to tell you when you set a goal to get fit in January, you have to go to the gym. January 1, January 2, January 3, January 4. It's awful, right? But if you do what we say today, hopefully we'll get into it. You can set up your budget once, and you don't have to go back the next day. It will it will not rely on your willpower. It'll be automatic. Okay, so that's what we're going for, yeah?

So hopefully that just sets the vision of like, kind of a different way to talk about budgeting compared to maybe what you've heard in the past?

Yeah, absolutely, that is such a great shift right off the bat that it's a an issue of organization, rather than like your skills or your strengths, right? So let's talk about that a little bit more like, what do you see when you're working with people in terms of how that presents itself as the main challenge?

Well, people come to us and they just say, I'm bad with money. I don't do budgets. I can't do budgets. It doesn't work for me. Like there's a lot of shame and a lot of money baggage that comes with somebody trying to budget or trying to properly handle their finances. And the truth is, is that you just weren't taught. Nobody taught you the right way how to handle your money or to make a budget. So when you're in high school, you get your first job, we probably didn't make a budget. Then you were in college, got a better job, no budget, and then you graduated, and now you have your career. And guess what? Now you get married, and now you have to handle two people's finances, and you still don't know and you weren't ever properly taught on how to handle your finances, so no wonder you feel shame and that you just you can't do it well.

And let's go ahead and add in, let's be an entrepreneur too. So let's see what else I can do in this money, in this area of finances, that no one ever taught you. And I think that's like Vanessa, that's really important. You don't know what you don't know. And like we said before, it's so much more complicated than it ever you don't you know what did? Okay, I don't know what people in Canada did here. I feel like I have this image of, like, Grandma stuffing money into a tin can, or like people were their savings accounts were, like in between mattresses. Okay, we're it's a little different now. Okay, and so what we see the problem, like, one of the problems, like you asked Kelly, is people are trying, they're blaming themselves for being bad at money because, and they have one. An account, and they have about 1 million transactions in there, and they're trying to in the moment, where they're at the grocery store aisle, or they're trying to pay a bill or whatever, there's like, Okay, did the mortgage come out? Do I have to get gas, all of these things? And like you're trying to do in the moment, that's not fair to you. And nobody has the brain calories to do that, right? So we want to take it away from that, like in the moment, trying to figure it out, make it very simple and make it separate everything. So it's so easy, like, the micro decision, not like this, all this math in order to figure out something and then automate it, like we said,

Yeah, well, I'll say the other thing that's happening is you're just ignoring it all together. Oh yeah. Oh yes, yes. Your head. We like, Oh, I'm not doing that math. I'm just not doing that. Yeah.

We call it an ostrich with their head in the sand. So like, that's not what we want you to be. We want you to be standing tall, being able to see and handling what's going on. But with that one transaction or that one bank account, you have no idea what's going on with your finances. Everything is so unorganized and and so it's not necessarily your fault, but you just didn't know that there's another way to handle it,

yeah, and I think you're sitting there and you're ignoring it, like you said when, and then you're just swiping and hoping, hoping for the best, and you just keep creating these problems for future you. And we like future year, we don't want to do that to her. We want her to just know what's going on and not have to solve any more problems she's got enough in the future to solve. So, yeah, you're right. People just ignore it. That's definitely a big one, and so that's why we want it to be so simple, and like for you to set it up once, because we know you don't want to be doing this every day or every week. You're not an accountant, you're not a bookkeeper, like we don't want you to be. So set it up once, and then it hopefully will flow

from there. Okay, so I need to know what is your definition of budget, because I feel like we say that word. That's why it was like had the whole b word thing at the beginning here. Say that word, and it sounds like that's something that's restrictive, that's something that, here's my own, like, reaction for you to play off of. It's restrictive. It it says I'm only allowed to do this much with this much, and I have to have, like, all these buckets, and I have to think about, you know, all this stuff. And it just sounds very complicated. So how do you reframe that?

Well, I think it's just, we like to put everything on one page. So yes, when you talk about a budget, like, what is a budget? A budget is knowing where your money is going, right? So when you have, let's just talk about the way that we have ours laid out. It's on one single sheet of paper, so it can't be scary. And there's five simple columns in that. So you list your income, you list your minimum debt payments, you list all of your bills, you list your spending, and you list your savings, and you may not have anything in savings, that's okay. That's fine. So then now you're just down to four so it's even easier. But a budget is just knowing, okay with all of this income coming in for the month, where is it going? And it's not saying, like, you can't do this, you can't or you shouldn't. Like being able to lay it out on paper is not shaming you for what you're currently doing. It's just allowing you to see what's happening with your money so you can make a plan that serves you best.

Yeah, and truly, a budget gives you permission to spend. That's what our budget does. We don't know what other people's budgets are doing, but we're giving you permission to spend money, and to know that you have money to spend when you want to spend it, and actually also to know where that money is coming from, like, instead of just hoping, swiping and hoping that everything's gonna work out, you're gonna actually know I have money for this, I have money for that, and I'm saving for everything, and it's all good, because what we when we started out Kelly, we started out, I don't know if your listeners are familiar with Dave Ramsey, That's fine if they're not, but that there is a section of this industry that we're in that's that does tell you to cut everything, to be restrictive. You can't do this, you can't do that, you can't do this. We're not for that. We don't like that. We don't think you have to live on rice and beans. We don't think that you have to give up your pumpkin spice lattes or whatever it is that brings you joy. We think you can be bougie on a budget. The difference is that, and that's what our budget is, is how to be bougie on a budget, really, truly, and it's giving you permission to spend. And it's very simple, like Vanessa laid out so that you know that you can.

I love that, because I used, well, my husband's really big, like, spreadsheet guy, and a big fan of, like, you know, scenario planning. And love him for all that. But when we once, a long time ago, before we purchased the house that we are in now, we were looking at buying an acreage, which was quite a big like financial commitment. And at that point, I called that his spreadsheet of killing dreams, because that was like, so what you're saying is this is never going to happen. But, I mean, I love a spreadsheet or something that actually feels empowering. That feels like, Oh, I get to do the things that I want to do, and I am, like, just proving to myself that I have the money to do that.

Yeah, I think that that's, that's a really good statement too, because I remember my husband one year, you know, and he was just in a he was on his own little soapbox. And he was like, where has all our money gone? You know, he's just in a moment at the end of the year about, you know, what had happened? And I showed him like, Babe, this is what we did this year. This is what your income provided for our family. And, you know, I we, what we've kind of learned is that men are very visual, so for them to see, for him to see it on paper. House. Successful. We were in all the things that we were able to do really helped him go, oh, okay, we got to do all that. We got to tie that much. We got to send our kids to private school. We got to take all those vacations. And it was because we had a budget to be able to make that plan for ourselves so we could have fun in that year. But yeah, it truly was permission to spend, but also knowing that all of our goals and our investments and savings and everything was also happening at the same time,

I think that's such a good point, actually, because it feels like in this space, money is numbers and numbers are black and white, like they don't lie. But I totally disagree with this, and I think that you're kind of going the same way. Is, it's how you look at it, right? It's how, like, you just said that, yeah, the money is gone, air quotes. But where did it go? And you reframed it as we got to do all these things and save and hit our goals and have vacations and put our kids in private school. And I'm like, that's a total just like, shift of how you're looking at the money in the first place.

Yeah, and you know, to that point, this whole this, well, that's why we say the B word, right? We're being funny, but we're not because everybody has this immediate negative or not everybody, a lot of people, have negative connotation when it comes to money or budgets. And we did kind of too, or we, we came from that world we understand, and we wanted to flip the script. Like, look, you just pulled out. Is that your Stanley? Like, look, we are here for the Stanley's. We're here for the coffees. Like, let's go. You know, we don't want you to not have it. We want you to be so confident about your numbers that you know you can have it. And it's not, it's no longer this consternation of, of, well, you know, I'm not looking at it, and I kind of feel bad. No, it's like, I'm looking at it. I'm saving for travel, my vacation, I'm saving for Christmas, and I'm going to get my coffee or whatever it is, like, there's got to be something that says coffee. I really got to come up with a different example.

But I think Amazon in itself is like being able to say yes to Amazon. Yeah, yeah. I mean,

that's a that's an easy one. But you know, when you said the spreadsheet of killing dreams, our budget is very pretty. We think that's important. Our budget does the math for you. We think that's really important, and it's very simple. We want you to be able to see everything on one page, one piece of paper, so that you know exactly what's happening, and you know what you what's possible. And it kind of like trickles down to in the categories that Vanessa said. But you know, once your bills are paid, then you have a number that shows you this is how much I have left to spend. Yeah, it's not, it's not a negative thing. It's like, look how much I have left to decide where I want it to go.

It just allows you to say yes.

absolutely. Well, let's get into the tips and tricks segment of the show where you share your amazing strategies for how, how people can start embracing using a budget?

Yeah, so we think that the very first thing that we want them to do is get it out of your head. So a lot of people have a budget air quotes again, in your head, and we call them wrecking balls, like you cannot. You can't make sense of all that, and it's probably worse in your head than it really is on paper. And your mind is playing games on you, and you're all you're going to be super stressed out about it until you actually put it on paper. So the number one thing that we want you to do is to use a one sheet of paper and put it on there and be able to see all of your money at a glance.

So real quick. Kelly, we started as coaches, and we were using someone else's budget to help them, and we realized it wasn't serving anybody, and so we went out and tried to find one that made sense, and they're like on Etsy, and there's stuff maybe your husband would like, but it's like, fixed and variable expenses and all these ones that need nobody that doesn't actually help me figure out what to do with our money. And that's where the disconnect is. Nobody taught you how to budget, and then when they have these budgets, it's like words and numbers on paper. It doesn't mean anything. So the tip and trick is you need to know your debts and your bills, and those are separate. That's stuff that's invoiced every month. That's that, again, you need to see all in one paper. To Vanessa's point, we have so many clients that there's because of what we talked about, the modern complexity. You've got this subscription on this card. You've got this thing coming out of here and in there. And it's very easy to for a lot of money, to just get lost. So we want it to be all on one paper. And we're actually going to tell you to put it all, all of those things, on one account, one bills account, and keep it separate and safe, right? And then we put the spending column, and that is, you know, money that you're spending on gas and groceries, that's money that you're spending on, you, on facials, whatever it is that you're going out and spending money, and that's where I feel like our budget is way different, because that's actually what you do with your money, like, that's what you do with your hands, versus other budgets are like, here's your needs and wants, and it's like, Well, okay, am I not supposed to need or want? I don't know what I' supposed to do.

When a lot of people will list groceries as a bill, and we're like, that's not a bill. That's a spending like, you spend money on groceries. You don't have, like, a due date where you have to, like, turn in your grocery money every certain time, right? That's not a thing. So it's just the way that you organize. It really matters. And it allows you, like we said, it allows you to mimic what you do and what you do with your hands throughout the month. So you pay your minimum debt payments, you pay all your bills, which is anything, with the due date, and then you can. Kind of hang out in the spending column. That's where you live. Your spending section of your budget is where you live. That's where you're you go to Target. It's where you click add to cart on Amazon and buy things. That's where you go to date night with your husband. That's where you spend money at the Fall fair. You know that all of that stuff, your child's field trip money, like all of that, is where you're spending money throughout the month, and it keeps everything else that's happening in the other columns just happening automatically, because all you have to worry about is only, only staying within your spending section.

Yeah, and just real quick, we want you to separate that. So just to make it clear what we were talking about before, you have 1 million transactions coming out of one account, and then you're trying, you're either, like you said, either ignoring it or trying to figure it out in the moment. Well, if all of your bills are coming out of this other account and then you have this other one that's for spending, it's way less like math or thoughts or like decisions you have to make. You just can look at this. You just like Vanessa. You just live in the spending and know that everything else is taken care of.

I mean, imagine having a spending checking account that all of that's happening and you're not even touching any of the money that's for bills, so all the money that's sitting in your bills account is just for bills, so which means you're never going to tap into it, which means you're not going to mess that up, which means everything can run automatically, and all you have to do is worry about the amount of money that you put in your spending, which means there's no tracking required. You're not having to track all your expenses because you're just staying in this other checking account with all that money in there.

Okay, so I'm trying to visualize this so you have your five columns on your paper, your spreadsheet, whatever, digital or physical, whatever you have. How many bank accounts

at this point two.

Yeah. Well, you can have as many as you want. So when you're trying to visualize it, let's talk through it this, right? Your income is the first step here. It's pouring all of your income is going into your bills account, okay? And your bills account is keeping exactly how much money it needs for bills, okay? And you would figure that out because you've listed you finally have it all on one piece of paper. And, you know, whoops, I'm paying for two Spotify and one Apple Music.

and you all have them finally coming out of one account, one account.

Okay, so then all of that money, you keep it in there, and then based on your budget, which, like we said, our does the math for you, which we think is very important, then money is being transferred to your spending accounts or to your savings accounts. Separate automatically that way, and you don't even have to lift a finger. And so then you're just looking, you're really just looking at your spending accounts. And it can be multiple, we can talk about that, but it can be one, and you just have to live there, right? And you know, the bills are taken care of, and all the money is there. And then hopefully your savings are going automatically according to your budget, whatever you set. And then you're just living in your spending account.

The budget or the system can be as complex or as simple as you want it. And that's the point. Is that it gives people options. Our system is not cookie cutter, as it shouldn't be, because everyone's goals, dreams, like what they have going on in their life, is very specific to to their lifestyle. So you can have the option to have that just that one spending account. You can break it down further if you want, but, you know, we just want to the concept here is that we want your spending to be completely separate from your bills. Okay?

And so I just want to know, too, do you have a, like, a position regarding credit card use, or

just, yes, we do. Are you

making it easier? And when I use when you say, all bills come out of one account, I'm like, all bills go on my credit card, and I pay one credit card bill instead.

You know, there's we could say a lot about credit cards, but I think the biggest concept here for us is that we don't want you to rely on credit cards. And a lot of people are relying on credit cards because their account is messy. They don't know what's going on. They end up overspending because it's disorganized, and then they have to put gas and groceries, or they have to put that fall fair ticket, they have to put whatever the date night on the credit card because they don't know what's happening in that one big, messy account.

Yeah, and honestly, we could have started our soapbox with that, but we didn't want people to stop listening. Okay, so we're not, like, super hard on this. This is not our plan, but most people do come to us wanting to get out of debt, so we do have a plan to help them with that. We don't want we know that you make too much money to be into this much debt. Usually that's the case, and you make too much money to be relying on debt, and we know that your credit card balance is not a budget. So even if you're doing your due diligence, you're not paying interest, because you're paying it off every month. You don't really know where your money is going. You don't know how like my income is this much I'm living under my means, because I can see where it's all going. And we want that for you. We want you to become your own bank. What we teach you is to figure it out. Separate it, which will help you a lot. It will make it so much easier to figure out. And then you're able to save money in those savings buckets so that you don't rely on credit. You don't have to go back and use credit, because those are usually the things that kind of derail a budget. And then you're able when your bank account, your emergency fund, or maybe your pet fund, whatever is higher than your credit card limit, then you're your own bank, and you're no longer relying on debt or relying on other people's money to pay your bills.

What we see is that when you use a. Credit Card, naturally, people are spending more money because there's not, there's not, like a hard stop, right? So it just, it allows you to keep spending. And we understand, like some people will just, just put their bills on there, but then then they keep it in their wallet. And so then then they put this on there, they put that on there, and things creep up. And so then they realize, well, not only have they spent all the money in their bank account that month, they've also racked up their credit card, so it's just and also too, when you rack up your card throughout the month and then you pay it off, you're a month behind, yeah? So you're literally, instead of paying for your future, you're now having to pay for your past, because you're working in reverse,

yeah, welfare perspective for sure. Okay, let's go into like, a more you had a soapbox moment at the beginning, but now you could have a like dreams and aspirations and purposeful, you know, connection moment. What do you wish that more women knew about managing their money in a way that supports their business and their lives?

Well, okay, well, business, that's a big deal. One thing that we want you to know is that your business needs can be steady. It can the income, the bills, all of that can be steady when it comes to money, and it should be funneling into your personal life steadily as well, right? And we understand that there's a lot to manage. It needs to be separate. You can all. All of this can be automated too, and it can really just take a lot of the stress out. A lot of women shoulder the stress. We did a national research study Kelly and every question we asked, like about stress and money, women were at least 10 to 20% higher on everything. And I could pull it up to give you specifics, but women are holding a lot of stress when it comes to this, and we want to take that away from you. We want to take that burden off of your shoulders well.

And I think it's also important to state that the system that we've set up for people personally works for business, and we've we have put it into place from our business with our business day one, and we were profitable day one. It was $47 that's fine. That's not a lot of money, but we were able to pay everything in cash. And it was just really nice to be able to know that everything is automated, as far as when your income comes in, just for what's for your expenses, what's for your spending, and what's for your savings, but, but a lot of people have this connotation that, well, I have a business, it's a roller coaster, my income, my finances, it's all a roller coaster. And I don't really know how to budget for that, but you can make it as consistent as possible. And we have been able to take so many businesses to a point where they're consistently paying themselves the exact same amount of money every single month with just a little bit of diligence and setting some systems up,

and then just real quick, when because you said the word dream, and our first step, the first thing that we ever want you to do is to dream again. Because when you started off in life, maybe when you got married, or when you were early, before you know, life got so lifey, you had big dreams and goals, big dreams and goals. And we want to ask you to go back to that. Think about what you want out of life, what what is it that you want to do, what you what your goals are, because money is required from most, almost every goal that you're going to you're going to have, right? And we, we want you to know those. We want you to dream again, right? And then that way you have some motivation to do this, like, there's when your budget is motivated by what your goals are, and you're doing it for a reason, you're much more likely to stick to it, right? So,

yeah, we just want you to have a why. So you're just, you're it keeps you excited every day.

I feel like you know you've talked about this a lot during this episode, but maybe we need to, like, hit it right on the head with the whole money mindset shift, because that's such a huge part of, like, even venturing into taking ownership over this, this part of our lives. It really, it can create so many problems, and it can create so many opportunities, and it's like, so volatile sometimes. And like you said, with entrepreneurship, it can be, feel like a roller coaster and all these things. So what's the question, like, the the money mindset shift that you most are working with your clients on?

Yeah, well, I think, I think the one that we mentioned earlier, you know, you're not bad with money. It's actually this organization problem that's kind of a big one, you know. But, yeah, go ahead, yeah,

I would say another one would probably be the conversations that you're probably having with your spouse about money. You know, maybe you've not been able to talk about money before, so it's been this taboo conversation. So you don't, you just don't talk about it, or you try to talk about it in passing while you're like, heading out the door to take the kids to soccer practice. And that's not great because those don't end up that's not great result with that. And so it's just having open conversations, truthful conversations, about money. But it all starts with showing it on paper, like, and we say paper like we're being literal, but you can have it digitally. You can have it on paper like actual paper, but it's just really like talking to each other about the numbers and seeing it, because women like moms and entrepreneurs will come to us and just say, Hey, listen, I haven't told my husband about what's going on with our finances, because for so long I've tried to. Carry that burden I have. I carry that weight because I didn't want to bother him. And it wasn't that she was being shameful and like, hiding things from him. She just didn't want to bother him with what was going on, and that meant she was racking up credit cards to try to make ends meet because she didn't want to tell him how bad it was. And so, you know, we really walk them through, encouraging them to have that conversation, and once they do, it is night and day, the relationship that forms between the two of them after that.

Yeah, I think, like she said, a lot of times, it's worse in your head than it is in reality. And the other thing that we have to do, Kelly is recognize that we are carrying some sort of money baggage, and that's creating a lot of your money mindset. So I had a client that she was just so used to not having money, that even when we did the budget and she had money, she would find a way to ruin it, like right, self sabotage. We had to work through that, right? And then there's, there's all kinds of money baggage that you may be like different things that you're bringing in than your spouses, but the reality is, it's math, and if you will just face the music, take your head out of the sand, look at it together. It's usually, like we said, it's never as bad as you think. But also it can be fun. Like, here's the deal. We're talking to, people that are kind of bougie, right? They make good money, but maybe they have nothing to show for it. It's actually fun to do a budget when you make good money. Guys, like, it's not it's not sad or scary. It's like, woo hoo. Look at all this money I am. What am I gonna do with it? That's the vibe that we want to go in and just allow yourself. And we find once people get on a budget, they do have to get used to having money. They do have to get used to money stacking up and getting extra commas in their savings accounts like that. Takes a while to learn that that's the kind of person you are, that you're the kind of person that's going to be your own bank, but it is possible, definitely for you.

It's just looking at the data and not dealing with the drama like that you have associated with it?

Yes, okay, well, talk to us about the resources that you have and how people can learn more and become their own banks. I love that. Be your own bank. Bougie. Bougie budgets, all these things like, they're just like, really firing up my little marketing girl brain here,

as much alliteration as possible. We're always for it.

We are. So you can come on over to financial coaching for women. It's on any podcast platform, and find us there. We have a ton of free resources.

Yeah. And so here's the truth is, Kelly, right now may not be the best time for you to really be thinking about this stuff right now, but we do have a boot camp coming up because we know it's about to be a holiday season. It's about to be kind of fun and maybe full, right? So what we've done is we've decided to have a boot camp after Christmas, right? And so it'll be the last week of the year, slash the beginning first week of the year, and then we're going to teach you all of this. We're going to walk you through it, and whatever happened happened. We're going to go through it five day boot camp. Yeah, exactly whatever happened. We're going to start from here forward. And we'd love to invite your listeners if they want to come check it out. It's budget besties.com forward slash boot camp. So what you can do now is Be a good girl. Now register for it. Then you can go do whatever we want, look we're all hiding our eyes. It's fine, whatever you did. And then you come, come hang out with us after Christmas.

It's just gonna really set you up for 2026.

honestly, like feel so much permission. There's no, there's absolutely no shame with these ladies. So if this is like striking a chord for you, please reach out to them. I'm gonna check it out.

Yeah. So hopefully that is, that is the vibe like, if we had, we should have said it in the beginning as our soapbox. If we had one thing, it's just to take all of the shame and heaviness out of this. Let's just look at it and make it. Make it good, make it fun, make it simple, you know.

well, and if you come over and listen to our podcast, that's one of the things our audience says, like, you guys, there's zero shame. We have listeners come live when we have conversations with them, like, there's never any judgment. There's never, I never feel like I can't tell you something. And, you know, there's just, it's just a fun, easy conversation between girls,

yeah, and you know, like you just said, whatever you've done, you've done, it's about like, reframing, looking forward and making changes. We all have these opportunities in our lives in whatever aspect to do better, right? And this is just the way to do better with money. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being on the show girls.

wow. Thank you so much for having us, Kelly.

Yeah, that was such a fun conversation.

And see the B word wasn't that bad guys.

Oh no, we didn't. It was all good. So make sure you go check out the budget besties podcast and the resources that are linked in the show notes. We'll talk to you soon.