E196: A Homicide, A Hero, and A Mother’s Heart: KD Wagner’s Legacy of Love

What happens when the unimaginable becomes your reality—twice?
In this powerful and soul-stirring episode, I sit down with KD Wagner, a Gold Star Mother, speaker, author, and survivor of unthinkable tragedy. KD lost both of her sons—one to murder at just 18 years old, and the other while serving in the U.S. Navy during Operation Iraqi Freedom. Her story is one of devastating loss, relentless grief, addiction, and ultimately, extraordinary resilience.
But KD's journey didn’t end in darkness—it transformed into a mission of purpose and healing. She shares how she moved through the depths of despair, including moments where life felt unbearable, and how she came back from the edge with a powerful message:
💬 “Limitless resilience is possible—even when everything feels broken.”
Today, KD Wagner serves as the President of the Florida Gulf Coast Chapter of American Gold Star Mothers Inc., raising awareness and advocating for veterans and their families in honor of her sons, Jeffrey and Bud. She’s spoken around the globe, appeared on major networks, and continues to inspire with her raw truth and unwavering strength.
📘 Her book BUD: A Homicide Turns a Blue Star Gold tells the heart-wrenching and heroic story of her son’s service and ultimate sacrifice.
She is also the author of the trilogy The Next Day Came, which shares her powerful journey through grief, addiction, and the road back to life.
✨ Whether you're grieving, supporting someone who is, or simply in need of a reminder that healing is possible, this episode is for you.
🔗 Connect with KD Wagner:
📗 BUD: A Homicide Turns a Blue Star Gold – Buy on Amazon
📖 The Next Day Came Trilogy
📸 Threads
If you have a story of hope and healing that you want to share, please reach out. I would love to chat with you about being on the show.
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I know.
Speaker BWell, hello everybody and welcome to Adult Child of Dysfunction podcast.
Speaker BToday we have with us Dr.
Speaker BKatie Wagner.
Speaker BAnd I'm just going to jump right in wherever you see in the background.
Speaker BWe're on Patapaloosa today.
Speaker BSo it's quick, it's quick, it's quick.
Speaker BSo welcome Katie, how are you?
Speaker AGood.
Speaker AHow are you today?
Speaker BI am doing great.
Speaker BSo being on the podcast Adult Child of Dysfunction, I actually read a quick part of your bio and you've had a whole bunch of things going on in my life.
Speaker BYes, yes.
Speaker BSo I'm gonna let you go ahead and we're gonna just jump in and I would like you to just talk about your books because they obviously had a reason that you made three books real quickly and just go ahead and explain your books and that'll start us off well.
Speaker AGood.
Speaker AActually never planned on writing a book.
Speaker AI was perfectly happy working, driving a big truck across this country, making money, having fun with my two sons.
Speaker ABut in 2001, my 18 year old son, I was driving my semi up the Hill Mountain in California and I got a phone call and they said, Jeffrey has been murdered.
Speaker AI was driving at 70 miles an hour on cruise control and didn't even realize I was still driving on a freeway with an 80,000 pound truck.
Speaker ASo I got pulled over and stopped and then I had to drive back to Las Vegas because that's where I had to take the truck.
Speaker AAnd it was just unbelievable night.
Speaker AAnd then when I got to my sister's house in Vegas, it was on the tv, secret witness on the news.
Speaker AYou know, it was a big deal.
Speaker AAn 18 year old kid had been shot with a sawed off shotgun on Fremont street.
Speaker ARobbed.
Speaker ASo.
Speaker BAnd where was he, where was he.
Speaker ALiving in Las Vegas?
Speaker BLas Vegas and Fremont Street.
Speaker BOkay.
Speaker AAnd y.
Speaker ASo I, I barely made it through that and I had to stick around.
Speaker AI was a single mom from when they were three and eight months old.
Speaker ASo it was just the three of us.
Speaker AAnd so Bud, my older son was in the Navy and he had horrible survivors guilt.
Speaker AHe thought he should have saved his brother.
Speaker AThey were born on the same day, three years apart.
Speaker ASo their birthday is July 17th.
Speaker ASo they were very close and had a really nice relationship.
Speaker ASo I stuck around to help him to get through the survivors guild and to, you know, keep going.
Speaker AAnd then 911 happened and he got called up for Operation Iraqi Freedom and he was killed.
Speaker ASo in two years and five months, I lost everything I had worked for for 25 years.
Speaker BWow.
Speaker AI had no reason to stay on Earth.
Speaker ALuckily, I told somebody about it, and they said, well, you can't.
Speaker AYou can't do that.
Speaker AYou, you know, you haven't got over Jeffrey yet.
Speaker ANow they don't bud in your lab.
Speaker AIt's gonna, you know, it's gon time.
Speaker AAnd I realized that time doesn't heal all wounds.
Speaker AIt's what you do with your time.
Speaker ASo that's all three of my books.
Speaker ASo when I sat down, actually, what happened is when your son, when your child is killed in the military, I don't know if you know, but you become a gold star mother or a gold star family.
Speaker AAnd so we get invited to a lot of stuff by the military and different things.
Speaker ASo I got invited to jump with the army Golden Knight elite parachute team.
Speaker AAll my friends thought I was crazy.
Speaker AI said, well, look, if I.
Speaker AIf I don't land on the ground, I get to go see my kids.
Speaker AIf I land on the ground, we'll go to lunch.
Speaker ASo that was my whole theory on it.
Speaker AIt didn't matter one way or the other to me.
Speaker ASo I jumped.
Speaker AAnd anyway, the next weekend I sat down and I opened my computer and I typed chapter one.
Speaker AAnd I started writing.
Speaker AAnd my editor friend, she said, just keep writing until you don't have anything else to say.
Speaker ASo I kept writing and writing and writing, writing, and 250,000 words later.
Speaker BWow.
Speaker AWhich is more than War and Peace.
Speaker AShe said, we're gonna have to cut.
Speaker ABreak it up into three books.
Speaker ASo we'll just do a book for each kid, and then everything else we'll throw in your book.
Speaker AAnd so I had to go back through all the book, all the books.
Speaker AAnd.
Speaker AAnd then, well, this should go in Jeffrey's book.
Speaker AThis should go in Bud.
Speaker AAnd then got dumped in my book.
Speaker AI didn't even see my book for three years.
Speaker ASo.
Speaker BWow.
Speaker AAnd then the attorneys got a hold of it and said, well, you know, the person who killed Jeffrey was not a nice person.
Speaker ASo said, you got to change the names and the locations to protect the innocent people.
Speaker ASo I had to go back through three books and do all that.
Speaker ASo it's about a five year process to write them by the time we were done, but they've all gone international bestseller in nine countries.
Speaker ASo part of the story is that I lost my entire extended family.
Speaker AThey don't talk to me because they don't know what to say, so they say nothing.
Speaker ASo it was very important for me to write these books and get them written because I was the only one that could do it.
Speaker ABut now that they're written, there's people in like, Germany, Japan, England that know my kids that would have never known them.
Speaker ASo it's kind of cool.
Speaker AAnd so that's kind of how the books got written.
Speaker ABut they're just true, gut wrenching stories of what happened, their life stories, their legacies, so they'll never be forgotten.
Speaker AThey're cool stories, really.
Speaker AThere's a lot of pictures in them.
Speaker AYou know, most.
Speaker AA lot of times, you know, in books, they put the pictures all in the middle in a section.
Speaker AI put the pictures right where you're telling the story so you can see what they look like at that time.
Speaker AEver.
Speaker AIt's really.
Speaker BYeah, yeah.
Speaker BI love that.
Speaker BInstead of having just a section of 20 pages in the middle and you're like, oh, what's this?
Speaker BWhen was this?
Speaker BAnd you have to kind of go back and try to reference and it just never works anyway.
Speaker ANo, I'm like, I want to do that.
Speaker BNo, yeah, no, I absolutely love that.
Speaker BSo tell the audience because that just seems, I mean, like a lot to get through.
Speaker BAnd you made the comment, you know, if I jumped, I jumped.
Speaker BIf I landed, I landed.
Speaker BAnd I know a lot of people have been there.
Speaker ASo.
Speaker BSo what did you do?
Speaker BLike, what was your.
Speaker BWhat was the.
Speaker BI guess not the moment, but even.
Speaker BWhat made you decide, hey, I want to do something else, I'm going to get through this?
Speaker BOr how did you get through it?
Speaker AWell, the first thing I did is I was, you know, I told you I was a single mom from when they were three and eight months old.
Speaker AAnd I always told them how important an education was.
Speaker AAnd I guess somewhere along the line I promised them when they grew up, I'd go to college and get a easier job because I was a police officer.
Speaker AAnd then I was a truck driver for 14 years.
Speaker ASo when Jeffrey was killed, Bud looked at me and he goes, why don't you go to college?
Speaker AHe said, we grew up.
Speaker ASo he kind of called me on it.
Speaker ASo we started going to college together and then he was killed.
Speaker ASo anyway, I went on.
Speaker AI got a bachelor's and master's degree in their honor.
Speaker ABut then I had to find another purpose.
Speaker AEvery time I finished something, I had to find another purpose because then I.
Speaker AAnd then I found the gold Star mothers and I got involved with them and serve, you know, as a president in their chapter.
Speaker AAnd we do a lot of volunteer work, give back to the veterans, the VA hospital, the community.
Speaker AAnd so that helps by giving back and helping other people.
Speaker AAnd then, then I wrote the books and then now that the books are done, I got to find out what my next thing is.
Speaker ASo I think it's going to be speaking and sharing the story so that people can help other people.
Speaker BSo well, and you made, yeah, and you made the comment right in the beginning.
Speaker BThere's no timeline for grief.
Speaker BLike, and I have a very good friend who is a grief coach.
Speaker BAnd that's one of the biggest things is she says that, you know, some people, like, there's nothing worse than saying, well, it's been a year, get over it.
Speaker BIt's been five years, get over it.
Speaker BIt's so unique to each individual person.
Speaker BAnd I, I mean even just speaking, like just to be able to tell people how to handle, you know, how to help and how to help people navigate that.
Speaker BBecause like you said, your extended family doesn't know what to say, so they say nothing.
Speaker BAnd that is so often the way when somebody has a loss because they don't know what to say.
Speaker BAnd it's awkward and uncomfortable and it's like.
Speaker BSo like in her book she puts a whole section on like what not to say, what to say to help people through.
Speaker BBecause for the longest time, like nobody.
Speaker BAnd it might have happened with your boys, nobody said their name.
Speaker BIt was like their name.
Speaker BThey, nobody wanted to say the name.
Speaker BAnd she's like, no.
Speaker BAnd it was her, wasn't her child, it was her, her spouse.
Speaker BShe lost.
Speaker BBut she's like, I wanted to hear his name, like be other people, validate that they knew him and loved him and.
Speaker AYeah, yeah.
Speaker AThat's one of the things that gold star mothers do at the end of every meeting is they go around the room and you say your child's name and.
Speaker BYeah, right.
Speaker AService.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker ASo it's kind of cool because then, then like you say you hear it, you get to hear.
Speaker BYeah, because you're not going to ever forget.
Speaker BIt's not like if nobody says their name, you're going to forget them, you know?
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker BIt's like just talk about them, have memories, have fond memories, whatever.
Speaker BSo.
Speaker BAnd they, you say they were born on the same day, July 17, wasn't black.
Speaker AThis is how they came out.
Speaker AFirst off, my mother in law, when I got pregnant with the first one, she said, you'll never have a boy.
Speaker AIt took me five girls to get a boy.
Speaker AAnd I said, okay, so then I had a boy.
Speaker ASo they named him the fourth.
Speaker AThe one I was married to was a third.
Speaker ASo he became the fourth.
Speaker AI said, well, I'll never call him that name.
Speaker ASo I called him my little buddy.
Speaker AAnd a little western belt buckle, he wore that said Buddy on it.
Speaker AAnd then about junior high, it got shortened to Buddha.
Speaker AAnd then when he was in the navy, he said, mom, I can walk into any bar and see a girl and walk up and say, this bud's for you.
Speaker AI go, really?
Speaker ADoes that work mine?
Speaker AHe goes, mom, you don't even want to know.
Speaker AHe was cute.
Speaker AThey were both 6 foot 3, blonde haired, blue eyed surfer dudes.
Speaker AThey love the water.
Speaker AAnything to do with the water.
Speaker ABut.
Speaker ABut you're right there.
Speaker AYou never get over.
Speaker AI got about 30 seconds in the morning when I first wake up that I don't remember it.
Speaker AAnd then I remember it.
Speaker ASo that's when I learned it.
Speaker AIt's resilience.
Speaker AThat's, you know, I didn't wake up one day and say, all right, I'm over this, I'm going to move on.
Speaker AYou know, yada, yada.
Speaker ANo, it's every day.
Speaker AIt's.
Speaker ASome days are better than other days, right?
Speaker AAnd we have their birthday, which is a bad day.
Speaker AWe always go out to dinner.
Speaker AMy spouse is always gets reservations for four and only two show up.
Speaker AAnd then we tell them why we're there.
Speaker AAnd then they're always very nice about it.
Speaker AAnd then their death days, which is March 26th and August 28th.
Speaker AAnd.
Speaker AAnd then of course, you got to get through the holidays.
Speaker ASo we don't do the holidays anymore.
Speaker AWhat we do is we have a dinner for people who would sit at home alone so that as few as four and as many as 24.
Speaker AAnd we just provide them dinner and you know, watch football or whatever.
Speaker AAnd on Christmas, Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter, we do that.
Speaker ASo.
Speaker BRight.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker ASo it's just been giving back and help, you know, sharing with others because being alone is a lonely place to be.
Speaker BYeah, absolutely.
Speaker BAnd you need to be.
Speaker BIt always helps to be around people and be with people.
Speaker BSo you went back and you got your.
Speaker BWell, you're.
Speaker BYou have a Dr.
Speaker BKatie Wagner.
Speaker BWhat did you get?
Speaker AWell, I went to school and I got a bachelor's and master's degree in their honor.
Speaker AThere's a plaque out at Cal State on the wall that says I did it for them.
Speaker AAnd then In September of 22, the college contacted me and I guess somebody had told them that with my transcripts because I graduated first in my class with highest honors and seven honor society membership, lifetime memberships and all that stuff.
Speaker ASo I did really well.
Speaker ABut I did it for them.
Speaker AAnd then I've written the books and I do all this stuff for the Gold Star mothers and stuff.
Speaker ASo they, they made me, had me send that in, send my books in and they put it all together and they, so they offered me an honorary doctorate of humanity.
Speaker ASo I took it.
Speaker AThat looks good on my books.
Speaker BWell, I mean it's very cool.
Speaker BAnd it's, you know, there's so much, so much more of a story behind it.
Speaker BLike that's, that's pretty cool because I've never heard anything like that.
Speaker ASo that's really neat when they give the honorary one.
Speaker AIt's based on what you've done and given to society or, you know.
Speaker BRight.
Speaker BSo what would you say?
Speaker BI mean, I like to always kind of end things or start things or whatever with a tip or trick.
Speaker BSo for somebody who has had that kind of.
Speaker BI mean that's inexplicable loss, you know what I mean?
Speaker BJust two in that many years.
Speaker BAnd what would you say is maybe something like when you wake up in the morning and you get that 30 seconds of I don't remember and then it hits in.
Speaker BWhat do you do to get through that?
Speaker AWell, I think I always tell people three things.
Speaker AOne, you got to find your new purpose because whatever your old purpose was doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker ASo you got to look at what was the pain and what happened to you.
Speaker AHow can you take that pain and move it forward and help other people?
Speaker ABecause if you're as long as you're a step ahead of the other people, you can help other people and help them move out of that spot because you know how horrible it is.
Speaker ASo, you know, help them move out.
Speaker AThe second thing I say is to find a group of like minded people like the Gold Star mothers for me that to be a gold star mother you have to lost a child.
Speaker AThere's no other way you're going to get in so you don't have to talk about it or you can talk about it.
Speaker AThere's some mothers who never tell their story, but there's other mothers like me and some of the others, we get up and speak.
Speaker AThe first time I spoke at an event there were 600 people and I was standing on the side of the stage and hopefully we got time and the general, three star general got up before me and he says, there's no one more resilient than the troops.
Speaker AThey go, you know, they train, they go to war, they come home, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker AAnd I thought, really?
Speaker ASo I got up there and I said, I beg to differ with the general.
Speaker ABut I think there's no one more resilient than a mother who gets up the next day after she's been told her child is never coming home.
Speaker A600 people.
Speaker AThe whole room went silent.
Speaker AI mean, you could.
Speaker AThen there was a standing ovation.
Speaker AI said, all right, I'm supposed to talk about resilience.
Speaker AThat's.
Speaker AThat's what it is, you know, wow, what if.
Speaker BWhat a lead in too to a great.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker BSo that's what.
Speaker BI'm assuming that's what your talks are about then.
Speaker BResilience.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker ASo.
Speaker AAnd the third thing is, is to find a way to honor your loss, because whatever that loss is, we.
Speaker AIt happened to you for a reason.
Speaker AYou got to find out what that reason is and honor it and then, you know, use it to help other people.
Speaker AAnd.
Speaker AOr you're just going to sit there, you can, you can do drugs, you can drink, you can kill yourself, but you're.
Speaker AYou actually did it for a purpose.
Speaker AIt happened for a purpose.
Speaker ASo find that purpose and move forward and help other people.
Speaker BAbsolutely.
Speaker BI always say, I always use, and it's not my quote, but the, the day that you start thinking about things as happening for you and not to you, it becomes a different world you live in.
Speaker BYour.
Speaker BYour whole mindset literally shifts as.
Speaker BInstead of be like you, like you said, you could literally have just picked up the bottle, stayed there the rest of your life, and from the people outside looking in, you would have been totally justified in doing that.
Speaker ANo way.
Speaker ACompletely understood.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AI had actually got my eight year chip on Friday when Jeffrey was murdered the following Monday.
Speaker ASo how easy would it have been to go back?
Speaker ABut wow, I had Bud and he had horrible survivor's guilt because he didn't save his brother.
Speaker ASo I stayed to help him and then two years later, he's gone.
Speaker AWell, now I really have no reason not to.
Speaker ABut you know what?
Speaker AThey were so proud of me that I didn't drink.
Speaker AAnd Now I have 33 years in their honor, so everything I do is in their honor.
Speaker ASo.
Speaker BAbsolutely.
Speaker BI absolutely love that.
Speaker BAnd yeah, and I mean, like I said, you can, you can go either way.
Speaker BAnd I say that to people all the time.
Speaker BIt's like, you have to.
Speaker BIt's a choice at that point because nobody would have judged you if you had stayed drinking or whatever you did.
Speaker BAnd they would have been like, oh my gosh, yes, this is what happened.
Speaker BWe understand.
Speaker BBut it's like now you have a purpose and you're helping other people and there's so many people out there.
Speaker BIt's the same thing with my friend's widow group.
Speaker BSo many have turned to drugs and alcohol to just numb the pain and.
Speaker AYeah, because I started drinking when I was 7 because I found out I had a very abusive father.
Speaker AAnd I found out if you were numb, they couldn't hurt you.
Speaker ASo I started drinking at 7 and I quit at 30, 33, so.
Speaker BBut, yeah, 7 years old.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AYou know, it was really funny because I used to play with the boys in the neighborhood, and we found this bottle of whiskey behind the print shop and.
Speaker AWell, let's try it, man.
Speaker AIt was like, I've just gone home.
Speaker AI still remember today.
Speaker AIt's like I just gone home.
Speaker AIt was so comforting and straight.
Speaker AI mean, it was straight whiskey out of a bottle at 7.
Speaker BYeah, well, yeah.
Speaker BAnd if you had an abusive father, it was probably that fear of every night that when he came home or whatever.
Speaker BIt was whatever your triggers were.
Speaker BAnd to be numb to that.
Speaker BYeah, probably felt comforting.
Speaker AYeah, it was.
Speaker AAnd I told people I grew up with two emotions, fear and anger.
Speaker AFear of me or somebody in my family dying in anger that nobody did anything about it.
Speaker APeople would say, well, you know how you always ask kids, what do you want to be when you grow up?
Speaker AI would tell them, I just want to live long enough to leave home.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker ASo.
Speaker AAnd you know what?
Speaker AI think that really prepared me for what happened with my two kids because I had that ability to survive.
Speaker AAnd, you know, life is we life.
Speaker BAnd obviously, if you had that.
Speaker BThat for that insight or whatever the foresight or whatever it is to be thinking that as a young person, where a lot of children in that 13 to 16 year old, they don't even know, like, they.
Speaker BLike you said, it's just one day at a time.
Speaker BThey don't even have that looking, that vision of looking forward.
Speaker BIt's literally.
Speaker BYeah, but I get it.
Speaker BLike, I totally get it when people would say same thing to me.
Speaker BPeople would say, you know, what do you want to be?
Speaker BAnd I'm like, I don't care.
Speaker BI just want to be gone.
Speaker BI just want to be out.
Speaker BI just.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AWhen I graduated from high school, I graduated at 17.
Speaker AThey said, what are you gonna do?
Speaker AAnd, well, I didn't want to get joined the Air Force, or I didn't want to join the military, and I didn't want to go to school.
Speaker AAnd I said, I guess I'll just get married.
Speaker ASo I got married and had my two kids, which I guess was what I was supposed to do because.
Speaker BYep.
Speaker AThat's what got me through life.
Speaker BGo to college, get married, have kids.
Speaker AThey taught me how to love.
Speaker ASo that's, that's really.
Speaker AYeah, they were my gift and I, I'm thankful for them every day.
Speaker BWell, amen to that.
Speaker BWell, thank you so much.
Speaker BI know we don't have much time today, but this was.
Speaker BI'm, I'd love to have you back on and we could get into more conversation about, you know, there's so many things we could tackle just hearing your story, the 10 minutes of it that I heard.
Speaker BBut if you could give the audience.
Speaker BWell, first of all, if people want to hear you speak or where do, where do they find you?
Speaker AWell, the best thing right now to do is go to talktokd.com and they can get a 30 minute complimentary call if they want.
Speaker AThey can get the From Hell to Hope.
Speaker AThree step Easy steps to Resilience.
Speaker AIt's a, it's a lead magnet, you know, thing.
Speaker AOr if they get there in the next day or two, then I'll send them the digital copy of Jeffrey's book to get started.
Speaker BOh, okay.
Speaker BSo, yeah, I'll post all that in the show notes and especially the PDF.
Speaker BI'd love to see that.
Speaker BThe resilient.
Speaker BBecause everybody needs steps to resilience.
Speaker BThere's no doubt about that.
Speaker BAnd if you got three easy ones, that's good, even better.
Speaker APeople are like, what's so easy about it?
Speaker AI'm like, oh, well, it's going to be easier.
Speaker BNo, I know.
Speaker BAnd I've had coaches that say, change it from easy to simple.
Speaker AThat's a good idea.
Speaker BIn a simple step.
Speaker BSounds easy.
Speaker BSounds like when you're, especially when you're going through grief or going through some kind of massive loss, to say easy.
Speaker BIt's like, no, nothing easy about this, but simple.
Speaker BIt's okay.
Speaker AI always tell people, look at the million people who died during COVID that didn't get to say goodbye and didn't get to with their family.
Speaker AAll those people are grieving.
Speaker ASo there's a lot of people that need.
Speaker AAnd I'm willing to talk to them, which that's, you know, right there.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BA lot of people need support and we so, so appreciate what you do.
Speaker BSo thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker AOh, thanks for having me.
Speaker AI appreciate it.
Speaker BOh, you are very welcome.
Speaker BAnd for everybody else out there listening, you heard it again.
Speaker BAnother story.
Speaker BHope healing you.
Speaker BJust, this is a story of being a victor, not a victim.
Speaker BTaking what happened to you and turning it around and finding a purpose.
Speaker BAnd we so appreciate Dr.
Speaker BWagner for doing that.
Speaker BSo thank you, and we will see you all back next week.
Speaker AThank you.
Speaker AHave a great day.
Speaker BThank you.