E 269: Attachment Theory and Relationship Breakdown: A Path to Healing: Guest: Bryan Power

Well, hello, everybody.

Welcome back to another episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction.

Today we have with us Brian Power.

In 2024, him and his wife would go from having a pretty good relationship to a completely racial complete relationship failure that culminated with a restraining order his wife would put against him for her emotional safety.

During their time apart, Brian and his wife would work on themselves, and that would work.

And that work would ultimately allow them to put their relationship back together.

Now Brian shares his inspirational story and teaches others how to use the integrated attachment theory program that helps save his marriage and provides the necessary tools to continue having a healthy, happy relationship today.

Isn't that something we all have want we're not want to have.

We don't all have that, believe me.

But it's something that we all want.

So welcome.

Brian, Tammy, thanks so much for having me on the show today.

Yeah, I think it's something that most of us want.

I don't know about.

All right.

There's probably a few that maybe don't care, but I think a lot of us want that.

Right.

And.

But we're having a hard time doing it.

And the question is why?

And how do we do it and how do we get that straightened out a little bit?

And I was very fortunate to learn something that's been able to help me kind of turn it around.

And happy to share that story and some of that stuff that I learned here with you and your audience today.

So thanks so much for having me.

Oh, you are very welcome.

I'm going to just jump right in because your very first question is, and I love this because it's very intriguing and probably something that grabs a lot of his attention.

Why do you call your practice make your relationship fail?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a little play.

Right?

Nobody wants to make their relationship fail, obviously.

You know, we all want to make it successful and really awesome.

But it does unfortunately happen where sometimes it takes failure to actually learn how to do this stuff and actually get it straightened out.

And my whole thought is.

And the reason I love that is, is more just to play on the idea that let's not worry about failure.

Sometimes we're going through a breakup.

It's hard, it hurts.

We don't understand it.

And.

But sometimes that can be the greatest thing that's happening to us and turning that around.

If you're in a relationship and it's broken and it's kind of struggling and you're at.

And you are broken up and that relationship is failing, there's a reason it's failing.

And so this is an opportunity to change it and to learn from it and actually grow.

And sometimes your spouse can come back together and now you can have a brand new relationship, something that's really fantastic and different, that actually works, or you can learn and maybe your spouse, you know, you go separate ways, but at least now you've learned from this experience and you can now take that into the future relationships that you have.

So I feel like when you do the work through this failure, you can't lose.

It's a win, win.

And so.

But it's hard to do that, right?

It's hard to embrace that difficult, challenging failure, if you will, at that time.

So I'm trying to change that mentality a little bit and say, hey, let's do.

Let's.

It's okay that we're failing.

It's okay that that happened.

Let's make the best of it and turn that, Turn that around.

So, yeah, it's a little bit fun.

Fun playing that it is.

And, you know, I mean, but it makes total sense.

And sometimes stepping away is what you need sometimes.

And I know people that have said, I just had a podcast the other day, and she said, yeah, my parents broke up and got back together six or seven times.

And in my mind, it was funny that you're coming on now to talk about this because I'm like, in my mind, you don't break up and get back together six or seven times without at some point saying, hey, I need to look at my part in this and just go, I mean, if you always do what.

What is it, Henry Ford?

If you always do what you've always done, you're gonna always get what you've always got.

I mean, so it's like you step away, you need to actually look and try to grow from it.

Like you said, what.

What.

What's my part?

What's their part?

And.

And how do you do that?

So, yeah, I mean, you.

It sounds like you had it pretty volatile when it was bad.

Yeah, I mean, my situation was, yeah, I got pretty critical.

Absolutely.

We went from, like you said, like my bio a little bit.

You know, my wife and I had what I thought was a pretty good relationship.

And yeah, with your typical fights, a little bit here and there, disagreements, but never anything hypercritical, if you will.

No major, you know, infidelity or financial issues or anything that was really glaring, if you will.

But, yeah, our childhood trauma, coming from two dysfunctional childhoods, if you will, would ultimately play out.

A lot of our childhood trauma was now kind of running the show in our relationship subconsciously that we didn't realize was happening.

And that's something I learned a lot about, is how the subconscious works.

But ultimately, yeah, we'd go from a pretty good relationship to a matter of a few months where she would actually put a restraining order against me for her emotional safety.

That's how much we were emotionally clashing at that point.

Yeah, at that point, I thought it was over.

I figured, well, this relationship is over.

Couldn't figure it out.

I just thought it was.

This is so bizarre, so awful that nothing I could do but move on and learn, you know, learn something new and try to figure it out.

I was fortunate enough to come across the integrated attachment theory program about a month before the restraining order came upon us.

And I was kind of kicked out of the house, if you will.

But that program was fascinating to me.

I was kind of really interested in learning about attachment theory and how that kind of was playing out, and then know with the integrated attachment theory, how to begin to fix it and actually kind of begin to get more tools on how to have good relationship and, you know, learning the differences between us and some of those things.

I was fascinated by that work.

So I just kept doing that work and, you know, as God would have it, life would have it, you know, I was able to kind of use that information I was learning and long eventually put the relationship back together with my wife.

That opportunity presented itself, and a lot of that work kind of came back to play.

And.

And now I have a lot of tools that I never had before that helping us to have a continued good relationship.

Right.

So.

Well, it's.

And it's not by coincidence.

And whether it's God or the universe or the Buddha or the Allah, whoever you believe in it, that whole attachment theory information was thrown at your feet for a reason.

Absolutely.

Oh, yeah, I truly believe that.

Talk about what?

I mean, I know I've mentioned before on this podcast, attachment theory, and talk a little bit about that to begin with.

Like, let's.

Let's start there for.

So the listeners have a good foundation of what the whole episode is about.

Yeah, yes.

Attachment theory has been around really since the 60s and 70s, if you will, and it's really how do we attach in relationships to our spouse, to our friends, co workers, family members, stuff like that.

It's really just how do we now act in relationships?

And then we can talk about it mostly about our spouse, because that's the one we typically think about and certainly the one that I talk about most Here.

But.

And it.

What they found is there's basically four.

Four different attachment styles.

Number one, you have a secure attachment style.

These people are very emotionally regulated.

They really are pretty good communicators.

Know how to set boundaries.

They just really know how to kind of do relationships.

Well, the relationships are important to them.

But, you know, if.

If you break up or we're not compatible and it's just not going to work out, you know, they kind of.

It hurts a little bit to break up, but they're not like completely destroyed.

They're.

They're going to be okay and move on with their lives and stuff.

And it's just.

It's just that a balanced, you know, type of perspective about the whole situation.

And they're just good at by nature.

Or again, maybe somewhere they learn this really.

But that's the one we all aspire to be like.

Unfortunately, a lot of us will fall into one of the other three categories.

Number one, you have an anxious, preoccupied.

These people typically like a lot of connection.

They really love being in relationships, don't like being alone very long.

If they meet you sometimes, maybe they fall in love very quickly.

You know, two weeks later, they're already, you know, talking about marriage or this is the perfect situation.

Everything a lot of communication like to, you know, text all day, call all day, you know, just really kind of staying connected.

Their spouse, unfortunately, to the point where it becomes unhealthy.

And a lot of times they can fall into, you know, bad patterns.

Codependency can be a big one there.

And it just becomes, you know, towards.

A little too needy.

Right.

A little bit too much sometimes because of the wounds that are driving that.

On the flip side of that, you have a dismissive avoidant.

Somebody who really isolates a lot, really craves a lot of independence.

They usually deal with their emotions alone.

They don't.

You know, if they're emotional at all, emotions are bad.

And so.

But if I feel emotions at all, I'm gonna go ahead and isolate and stay away from you.

Not necessarily try connect with you.

Totally opposite, if you will, from the anxious.

Right.

So if you.

You see these two in a relationship, that could be very difficult when one's trying to connect and the other one's trying to pull away a little bit.

And that's where a lot of times conflict comes in there because we don't understand the other side of that.

And we're not, you know, we think they're processing the same way, and when they're doing it differently, we just get really Frustrated, and it just hurts in different ways.

In between there is what's called a fearful avoidance.

Some people call it a disorganized attachment style.

Um, and that one typically swings between both sides.

It can be very close one week, very connected, craving that, you know, connection and relationship.

But then maybe next week, some of their fears come out, and they may even break up with you for no reason or.

Or at least maybe causing some fights or pulling back, you know, just for.

Again, subconsciously trying to protect themselves.

And so they may swing between both.

Now, depending upon their partner.

You know, they may lean a little bit more into the anxious, or they may lean a little bit more into the dismissive side, again, depending upon the situation, but they typically will kind of go between the two.

So those three attachment styles, unfortunately, are really unhealthy ones, and they're really causing a lot of problems because of the subconscious wounds that have been developed throughout our lives.

Absolutely.

So.

And it makes total sense, though, with the subconscious programming and everything else.

I mean, I can.

I know.

And people can bounce between these styles.

Like you said, you can be with one person, and oh, my gosh, this person opens me up, so I do have that connection, and I feel that connection.

But oh, my gosh, when they get too close, bam, I'm out.

I mean, it's.

I see it with so many different people, and I can see it in my own life, just when I started the whole relationship thing.

So how do you.

I guess I could say, how do you.

How do you know, first of all, which one you are or which one your partner is?

Well, well, you got to learn about a little bit more, and then you can start to see yourself in certain situations.

I also have a quiz on my website that somebody can.

You can get a pretty good feel as to where you fall into that, but really, it is a little bit more of just the time and willingness to learn and listen to some of the wounds that are more prevalent here.

More behaviors that are over here compared to the other style, if you will.

And, you know, when I say somebody's clingy or somebody who's really crazed connection and loves, you know, loves a lot of communication.

Some.

Some people are like, oh, yeah, that's me.

Like, I. I want to be in a relationship.

I love a lot of communication.

Talk, you know, right away, kind of where you land a little bit sometimes.

But there are some ways, again, just to learn a little bit more.

Eventually you'll be able to figure it out.

Sometimes we think we're one thing, too, and then in time, as we learn a little bit more, we may find, okay, maybe I'm not as anxious, maybe I am a little bit more in that fearful or disorganized attachment style.

And so sometimes we.

We just kind of learn a little bit more.

I think the key with this is with the attachment styles is this as well.

I always say it's not as important to understand what your attachment style is as it is to understand what your subconscious wounds are.

That's really more important than what attachment style am I.

Okay.

Because the wounds are really what's driving the unhealthy behaviors.

So until we learn that the attachment style is just a way to kind of give us a glimpse in a category that we can maybe focus a little bit on, but it doesn't necessarily, you know, prove valuable until we learn to dig into that and really begin to heal the subconscious wounds.

And some of these other things, which is what I learned from thy's Gibson.

Tyce Gibson created what's called integrated attachment theory.

And, and it is a program that allows us to move from the three unhealthy attachment styles into more of that secure attachment style.

And that's the work that I came across through all of this.

And, and I actually really love and, and, and try to help people learn now through, you know, through what I'm doing.

So.

And that's the integrated.

That's putting them all together.

Everything else.

So talk.

Let's.

Let's just dive into that, talk about it.

It's.

I think you mentioned that there were four basic pillars to that.

There's actually six pillars of attachment theory program.

Yeah.

So the six pillars are as follows.

Number one, it's your core wound.

So that fear of abandonment, fear of being alone, fear of not being good enough, fear of, you know, all these different fears that we can talk about that are, again, subconsciously driving that train.

And until we become aware of our subconscious and how it's working, it's really hard to kind of fix.

Figure this out and fix it and kind of move the needle.

Right.

So sometimes we're stuck in that cycle because we just haven't figured out that the subconscious is running the show.

One of the things she said that really kind of fascinated me, she said, and it stuck with me, and it still does today.

That 95 to 97% of our decisions in life are made by the subconscious and that the conscious cannot outwill or overpower the subconscious.

So even though consciously, I may think one thing, subconsciously, that wound is actually doing things differently that are kind of driving it a little bit differently.

And until I become aware of that difference, it's really.

It's really difficult.

That's the first thing.

So the core wounds, got to fix those, Got to begin to work on those.

Number two, it's your needs.

Really understanding what are my needs at the core.

Who am I?

What do I really need in life to be happy and fulfilled?

And then I have to learn how to fulfill those needs pretty much on my own as much as possible, right?

So that I'm not outsourcing my needs.

If I'm outsourcing my needs, I'm going to be.

Have a hard time fulfilling those needs.

But if I can.

If I can control my needs and learn to fill those on my own, I can feel joy and happiness and pretty good every day on a daily basis.

That's awesome.

Number three, it's our emotions.

How do I deal with my emotions?

How do I gain knowledge from my emotions?

I always say that emotions are really just information, whether they're negative ones like fear or anger, or whether they're positive ones like joy or happiness or, you know, it's fun, right?

So I have to understand what.

So my beliefs lead to my thoughts, my thoughts lead to my emotions, and then my emotions will ultimately lead to my actions.

So I have to just backtrack that a little bit and say, if I'm feeling, let's say, fear, what are the thoughts that I'm having that are causing the fear?

Is it because I'm afraid my spouse is leaving me?

Oh, we had a little argument.

Now my spouse might leave me.

That fear of abandonment comes up, all right?

And that's my core belief is.

My core belief is I'm going to be abandoned.

I'm not good enough.

That's what's driving this.

So we have to learn a lot about our emotions.

Number four is our boundaries.

How do I set boundaries?

What are they?

How do I set them?

I always say that boundaries are like the fence around the house.

We are the house.

And if we don't have a fence around the house at all, then we're completely unprotected.

Right?

If I have a huge fence, though, then maybe nobody can get in.

And.

And I'm going to isolate forever alone.

So I have to learn how to build, you know, put set healthy, good boundaries into my life.

So I teach people how I want to be treated and.

And that.

See who kind of respects that and can kind of go there.

Number five is our communication.

This is a huge one.

How do we communicate in a way that actually moves the needle.

Right.

I always talk about how in the past, my wife and I would have conversations, and she would always try to tell me things, or we'd kind of get into this little argument.

And I was always listening to defend myself.

Right.

How many of us do that where we're not listening to truly understand our partner?

We're listening because we feel attacked.

And those little wounds are now, you know, coming at me, and I'm feeling.

Feeling attacked.

So I'm going to listen to defend myself.

And so we have to learn how to communicate in a way that actually begins to, you know, help connect us more, not drive us apart, and actually begins to solve the problems that we're facing together.

When we do that, that's a huge bonus.

And last but not least is our behaviors.

Right.

Number six, how do we change our behaviors?

How do I begin to act in ways that are also, again, more becoming of what I want to be like?

Right.

I don't want to fly off the handle because of something, you know, silly, you know, you know, that's not really that important.

Right.

Maybe I can learn how to kind of handle my emotions.

Maybe I put.

For me, I'll put my shoes on and I'll go for a walk for an hour if that's what it takes, so that I can come back in more emotionally regulated.

And now I've handled myself.

I changed my behavior in a way that's more becoming of who I want to truly be.

And now you can look on and go, wow, that's a guy who knows how to handle his emotions.

And, you know, I have a lot more respect for that as compared to somebody who's maybe just kind of flying off the handle every time he feels his emotions.

So those are the six core pillars, and I really love those because each one allows me to look at, you know, what do I need to work on a little bit?

How can I improve here?

How can I improve there?

And as I do each one a little bit more, I'm now moving the needle, and it's a game changer.

Yeah.

And it's.

I'm sure that's the process that you go through with your clients and to get them to going, because every step is a process, too.

Like, you can't do number.

What was it for the boundaries, Unless you know your core values and what your needs are.

Like you.

I mean, there's.

Everything has to be done kind of in a way, not all.

Not in the perfect order.

There's no perfect.

There's no perfect system to Healing or getting better or whatever it is anywhere.

But yeah, it's like, if you, if you don't know what you need, how do you set a boundary around it?

If you don't know what you'll tolerate if you don't, you know, and, and so you have to kind of do all of these individually, which is nice.

I mean, it's, it's a process.

It is a process.

And, and yes, everybody's at a little bit different point.

Sometimes we may have to focus on getting, getting control of our emotions, maybe more so right away than.

And then we can slowly work on the core wounds that are actually driving that a little bit.

So it depends where we are a little bit.

But yeah, at the end of the day, I love the idea that we can look at each one and say, oh, yeah, I'm struggling with controlling my emotions.

I'm struggling with understanding what my needs are.

I'm struggling with knowing, you know, having any boundaries.

Right.

Or, you know, so I'm able to look at each one and go, yeah, you know what?

I've never thought about that.

I never thought about exactly what are my boundaries, what are my needs?

You know, what, what are my emotions telling me?

You know, like, so I just love that.

And it began to make a lot of sense to me and I'm like, wow.

I, I'm fascinated by this program and the work.

It's like, you know, it's a never ending process.

I want to make sure people know, like, I've come a long way.

But of course, I feel like this is a lifelong journey and it's one of those things that changes over time because we change too, you know, Right.

As I get older, you know, I'm gonna have different needs, I'm gonna have different bo.

Maybe are important to me that maybe weren't as important a year ago.

And so it's always going to be a little bit of evolving and changing there too, so.

Oh, absolutely.

And, and also understanding kind of on the flip side what your partners are.

So, you know, if your partner right now is in a completely, I don't want to say emotionally volatile state, but if they're on the defensive, they're going to be on the defensive.

So wording is very important.

How you word things, how you come across things.

Like you said, the communication.

I can think of a million different instances where it's true.

You go to talk and it's like you see the shackles come up and you're like, okay, not a good time, like defensive.

A hundred percent.

And that's our.

I mean, that's.

Especially when things are not smooth.

That is a.

Such a natural instinct to just get on the defensive.

So it's like wording and flipping.

Things are so important.

What do you think as far as.

If you're having a. I know you talk about the failure and finding the, the good out of it.

Why do you think sometimes, or do you think sometimes that the breakup is necessary?

Yeah.

I mean, think about it.

You know, so many of us, you know, we see a little bit warning signs, but you know, we don't really pay attention.

It's not really critical.

You know, it's like, it's like, okay, maybe I see.

I always equate this to sometimes to like our car, right?

It's maybe.

Maybe I see the engine light on.

Check engine light.

Or maybe I've got, you know, something going off a little bit, but I'm like, ah, you know what?

The car seems to be running fine.

I'll check it out when I get a chance.

And you know, we just kind of push that off and, and that's what we do in relationships.

It's like we see the red flag.

We've maybe struggled through a situation and we didn't fix it per se, but maybe we sweep it under the rug.

And that's why a lot of times these same fights and arguments repeat themselves because we never really did fix it.

We just kind of.

Right.

You know, we kind of swept under the rug for a little while and then it comes back and back and back and it just repeats until we, until we do kind of fix it.

But I always call it death by a thousand paper cuts is really what's going on with these relationships.

It's that little bit of frustration.

It's that little bit of lack of communication and all these little frustration over year and whatever it might be a year, two years, five years, 10 years, where all of a sudden somebody goes, man, I just can't do this anymore.

I feel like we just can't make this work.

It's just.

It's not moving the needle and, and they get to that frustration point where it's just like, what am I going to do?

I don't know how to fix this.

I can't live like this anymore.

I guess there's only one thing that's going on.

I have to end this relationship and maybe move on and maybe get a new relationships.

Maybe it's my partner's problem.

Maybe it's their.

Maybe it's them, right?

So and so we just naturally think it's them.

The truth is, we have to look at ourselves.

And that's the thing I learned the most, is we can't point the finger at everybody else.

We have to look at ourselves.

And that was the first step that both my wife and I had to realize, is we need to look at how we're showing up in this relationship and what we're doing wrong and how our perception and our wounds are actually causing the problems.

Um, and that is the first step.

And I always say this, you know, yes, it's nice if both partners can learn that.

But, you know, two is better than one, but one is better than none.

So if your partner's not ready to make the changes and learn, that's okay.

So long as you're willing to learn and make some changes.

You can actually move the needle in your relationship tremendously by learning these new skills, learning a lot more about yourself, and you begin to understand your partner differently and how to communicate to them and kind of work around them a little bit.

That can make such a huge difference in any relationship that you have for sure, right?

And like you said, knowing your part in it will make it easier.

And it's.

But that's the hardest part.

It's so easy to be like, you suck.

I'm out.

You know what I mean?

But the death by a thousand paper cuts, it makes so much sense because one little thing happens, and like you said, it's.

It's that stored up, you know, you don't really say anything.

You kind of get a little annoyed, and you don't say anything.

And then next time, you're, like, a little bit angrier.

And then by the time you actually address it, sometimes it's so big when it was, like, literally nothing, but it just builds and builds and builds.

And eventually those paper cuts, you know, every little bit, a little bit of salt on them hurts when you have a hundred of them.

Yeah.

And I always say it's.

You know, there's nothing more painful in life than losing the person you love simply because you don't have the tools necessary to fix it.

And it's not like we don't love each other.

A lot of times.

We love each other.

We're married, you got kids, you got all this stuff, and you both have this dream of spending a wonderful life together.

But over time, because we don't have the skills, we don't have the necessary, you know, skills and tools to work together, it begins to fall apart, just like your car will.

Right?

So again, I'll come back to the car.

If my car begins to fall apart and I don't and I, but I do have the skills, I do have the tools, I know how to fix the car, then I'm going to be okay.

But if all of a sudden my car begins to fall apart, it's acting weird and I have no tools, no skills, no know how I might panic a little bit and all of a sudden, man, my car is falling apart.

What's going on?

Maybe I just need to sell this thing and get a new car and that's, that's what we're doing.

We've never been taught how to be a mechanic.

Why would you think you know how to fix cars?

Right?

We've never been taught the skills to have a good relationship.

Why do you think you know how to have a really great relationship?

Like what, what makes you the expert?

Unfortunately, a lot of us won't humble ourselves enough to say, yeah, you're right, maybe I need to get some skills and learn how to do this properly so that I can be a good partner and show up properly and, and have a really great relationship with somebody.

Hopefully my spouse currently.

But if again, if you're single or whatever, you know, the idea is that we learn the skills that gives us the ability to have a great relationship and then we let see what, you know, comes into our life, whether it's our current spouse or whatever is going on there, you know, we'll find that.

But yeah, you gotta have the skills necessary to do it right.

And in a perfect world, we deal with all of these six pillars, or we know about these six pillars before we're in the relationship and before it's problem, you know, we develop some emotional intelligence.

So the first time someone says it's something at us, we don't blow off the handle, you know?

Yeah.

Just looking at them, you know, we set boundaries so that we don't get pissed off when they get crossed time after time after time, you know, so it's kind of like that kind of equates if you're going back to the car, it's kind of like doing your oil changes, you know, that's the preemptive work before you're at crazy situation.

So if you are in the crisis situation and you are in the middle of this breakup, what are some things that you can do to try to try to start slowly or quickly?

If that's what it takes.

Yeah, it's challenging.

I mean, when you're in the throes of it all, that's the hardest part.

Catching Your breath and.

And trying to have some hope and just trying to, like, you know, like, where do I go?

What do I do?

How do I learn?

You know, you get a lot of people telling you different things, too.

So how do I kind of deal with that?

The first thing you have to try to do if you're in that emotional state is get.

Get some emotional control, right?

That's the first thing.

Catch your breath, be able to kind of, you know, work through that.

And that sometimes is learning.

Like, maybe just like I like to do, maybe putting my sneakers on, you know, if I'm feeling triggered, if I'm feeling emotional, you know, force yourself, put some sneakers on, go for a good white walk or hike or something.

Or maybe it's yoga, maybe it's some meditation, whatever it is, that kind of can help you get to a more.

A little bit more regulated spot where you can think a little bit more clearly.

And then at that point, I think it's just literally trying to find what works for you.

I think there are different modalities as far as, you know, as far as therapy can go, find what works for you, maybe therapeutically.

For me, it was.

I had a therapist and I had this program here with the integrated attachment theory program.

That combination, for me, was huge.

And so, yeah, I was just able to kind of put that together.

You have to be willing to fight for yourself and fight for this, you know, to get out of that.

That mess and that problem, that situation.

And, you know, I think once you find something that begins to work, you get a little bit more hopeful.

You start to feel a little bit better, and it does begin to, you know, make a little bit more sense.

And for me, that's what happened.

Right?

I went from feeling like, oh, my God, this is the worst experience of my life, to it's still horrible.

But you know what I'm learning from this, I'm starting to grow.

I know I'm going to change.

And I knew that life would somehow work its way out.

I didn't think I'd ever get back together with my wife, but I knew that I would at least learn from this and be a better person from it and, you know, and then go from there.

And it's hard to accept that sometimes.

It's hard to accept that we've kind of messed things up and we've kind of made these mistakes, but that's part of life, and we're going to do that, and we have to, you know, forgive ourselves a little bit.

You know, unless you acted from pure Malice, you know, that's, you know, I mean, but most of us are really just doing it because we don't know any better.

And we're trying to fight, you know, these things and trying to deal with life and we care about our partners, we just, we just make mistakes.

And so that's just the way it works sometimes.

But yeah, right, and where do you think, where do you think it fits in?

Where people sometimes just have the theory that like some people have this attitude that people come and go out of their lives and that's just part of the cycle and it's.

Is that just, you think because they just don't.

That person isn't their person or do you think.

I guess, go ahead.

No, I think, I think most of the time it's because of us.

Right?

It's, it's the people that we're picking to choose to be in our lives.

And again, if we're not, you know, acting in a healthy manner, then yeah, you know, our picker is broken.

Right.

So, you know, if I'm an anxious type of person, I may be picking dismissive, avoidant types because I.

And a lot of times that's what happened.

We're picking somebody who is a little bit opposite from us because we see some of the things that, you know, that they have that we don't.

And so a lot of times we're attracted to that.

But yeah, sometimes again, without those skills, we find ourselves back into maybe a heartbroken spot.

I mean, unless you're happy with the people coming in out of your life and doing that.

But if you're somebody who wants to hold on to relationships and value relationships and long term partnerships and stuff like that, then yeah, it's just a lack of your own skills and your own ability to kind of, you know, navigate relationships properly, you know.

And so, yeah, it's not, it's not necessarily the next person.

That's a lot of times the lie that we think, oh, it's maybe it's the next person and the next person.

But then, yeah, four, five, 10 years, 10 relationships later, same pattern.

It's not.

You got to start looking inward, you.

Know, and not only that, but I mean, when you said like, yes, opposites attract kind of thing, I don't know if I like, yes, you may, that may kind of like I always say, like, my husband is more of a stay at home calm.

I was more of a go out crazy.

And I say, oh, we, we make a perfect fit because it keeps me grounded.

But in reality, if I want to look at it that way.

No, it keeps me bored.

So, like, I mean, I'm just being hypothetical, but a lot of times, like, I feel like the opposite.

Yes, that might be what you're right off the bat, but I feel like in if you're talking energetic fields and what people like, your frequency is your frequency, and those should attract similar.

Well, so.

So when I say that, what I mean is, yes, a lot of times in the beginning, we're attracted to that very thing that we don't have, and we see that in somebody else, and we're attracted to that.

But, yes, in the long term, those very things that we fell in love with that person for become the very things we hate about that person.

Right.

And become the things we're frustrated about them.

And so that's why it's very important that we, number one, get ourselves to a healthy spot so that we can choose a good partner.

And that's where dating and vetting and everything else is.

But again, if we're broken, I hate to say broken, but if we're kind of coming from a wounded spot ourselves, we're picking somebody else who's also got some wounds there.

A lot of times we're ending up in these relationships with two wounded people trying to navigate a relationship.

So, yes, we're attracted in the beginning, those things that.

That we loved about each other become the very things we now hate about each other.

But those are the things we need to learn about each other in order to really make it work.

And until we learn that about ourselves and our partners, we're going to continue to struggle and continue to be frustrated.

And ultimately, again, if you're able to kind of stay in a relationship, you may be able to stay in a relationship for 20, 30 years, but you're not fulfilled.

It may not be truly happy, and you're kind of like, just getting through it.

Well, that's not a great way to go either.

Right.

We want to have a relationship.

To me at least, I want one that is connected and fulfilling.

It feels good to have a partner that I can share my life with.

They respect me, love me.

I can respect and love them.

And now we're able to kind of really work together on a daily basis.

And it's fun and it's exciting, not just kind of trudging through it.

Yeah.

I always say, if you're here and you're listening to this, you're a warrior.

You've survived.

Now learn how to actually enjoy life.

Yeah.

It's funny that you said that, because I Always.

I always say that about my first husband and I'm like, man, I'm like, the stuff that he loved about me when he met me is literally the stuff that, that he hated about me.

And I'm like, he knew what he was getting.

But.

Well, sometimes we don't.

That's the thing.

We don't always know per se.

And that's where it, it's revealed in time.

And that's why it does take time.

Where things happen over time and then as they are being revealed, we started to notice things that are a little bit different and then.

But now we, instead of embracing and loving that part about our partner, sometimes we're frustrated about that, about our partner.

Right.

And so because I don't understand their way of thinking and doing things and, and understanding that they just grew up differently.

They have a different perception about some things.

They have a different coping mechanisms.

So until I really understand that, it may frustrate me and, and I may feel completely like alone and not connected to my partner because we're so different at this point.

But sometimes it does take some time to kind of be revealed, right?

Yep, absolutely.

And so, I mean, that's really.

And I think communication, when you talk about that's what number five, the communication, that's the key right from the beginning.

Because Otherwise you get 20 years down the road and then you're like, what the hell?

What am I doing?

You know?

Yeah.

Wow.

This has been very, very, very insightful.

I took a lot of notes.

I'm going to put them in the show notes and give them to people.

But you offer a couple things that I think would be very beneficial for the audience.

What were those?

I'm going to put them in the clip.

Thanks.

No, absolutely.

If anybody wants to learn a little bit more about me or what I do or would love to connect, please go to my website.

My relationship fail or make your relationship fail.

Either one will take you to my website.

You can take the free attachment style quiz.

Learn what your attachment style is.

It only takes a couple minutes to do that.

That's kind of fun to do.

And beyond that, if you'd like to, I'd be happy to give you a free relationship strategy conversation here where we can talk about, you know, what you're doing and maybe kind of help you point you in the right direction.

Kind of move that need a little bit.

I also always challenge everybody.

If you really want to learn more of this from my website, you can join Tyce Gibson's personal development School.

You're going to get the same good price that they offer on theirs.

But if you go through my website, I'll also give you an additional free session strategy session with that as well.

So.

So join the Personal Development School through my website and there is a treasure trove of really great videos and workbooks that you can begin to work through if you desire.

You want somebody to help move the needle with you and kind of help you through that?

Yes, I do offer some coaching sessions as well, so we can kind of help move the needle for you and really get you off in the right direction.

But, yeah, go to my website, My relationship fail or makeyourelationship fail.com and you can take advantage of those two things.

Also, I want to announce this too, if I may.

I'm going to be starting my own podcast in 2026 called My Relationship Fail.

And we're going to be talking with guys like myself, people who have been through really bad, difficult relationships, if you will, but have also come out on the other side, what they've learned, how they learn to change their lives and the benefits that came from some of the breakups.

I'll also be talking with relationship coaches, therapists, and really anybody who can help move the needle in this.

In this area so that we can learn how to have better relationships.

I'm on a mission to save as many relationships as I possibly can.

And so I'm excited to begin the show and see where that takes us.

Well, I love that because I think we've made it too easy now to just be like, meh, it's done, and move on.

You know, I mean, it used to be like, the marriage used to be like this sacred thing and you held on to it no matter what, and you worked on it and if you wanted to be happy.

And now it's just so easy to just be like, it's.

Yeah, it's just another one.

It's horrible.

I agree.

I. I think we need to get back to, again, taking personal responsibility.

That's the key, though, the first step.

It's so easy to point the finger outward until we look at ourselves.

We're really just going to just continue to struggle and we're just going to not have great, great relationships and stuff.

So, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I know people that are not willing to do that just because they're not willing to do that part of it, and they're like, it's just easier to start over and.

And I'm like, it's really not because you're just going to literally do the same thing the next time.

I mean it's.

Until you.

Yeah.

Until it's all about introspect and it's about look at turning the.

Turn in the mirror.

Yeah.

Like, I know it's a hard thing to do, but.

Oh, wow, this has been very insightful, like.

And I will send people, hopefully people will grab that quiz if nothing else.

And your coaching services, I'm assuming would be very beneficial as well for people that aren't at the crises point, that just want to learn.

And like you said this.

How do you spell the Thais?

Gibson, how do you spell Thais?

Thais is T, H, A, I, S. Gibson G, I, B, S, O, N. Yep.

Okay.

Thais.

Okay.

And you can, you can YouTube her.

She's got a really great video that really started me off.

And she did about an hour and 15 minute podcast on the Mel Robbins show.

And so you can look up Mel Robbins Tyce Gibson podcast.

And for about an hour and 15 minutes she gives a really great explanation about the four attachment styles.

And that really got me hooked.

And I, when I listened to that, I thought, man, there's, there's some really interesting stuff here.

And that started my journey.

So, yeah, if you want to just do something today for fun, start off there too, you know.

Yeah.

And absolutely.

And why not get the information before you're in crisis mode?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

It's great if you can do that.

Right?

I always challenge every.

That's the best thing.

If you can start seeing the red flags.

You're saying yourself, yeah, you know what, my, my spouse and I are struggling.

We do seem like we're having the same arguments.

Don't wait until it's critical, you know, but yeah, so if you can get it beforehand, awesome.

But yes, if you do get to the critical stage, there is still hope.

But nobody wants to get to the critical stage.

You always want to try to get there before you get there.

Yeah.

Get the help before you get to the, to the rock bottom if possible.

But unfortunately, like I said, I think for so many of us we don't want to take ownership until it's critical.

Until the pain is so great that we now have to look at it.

That's sometimes when we will ruin the change and do all this work.

But yeah, at that point it's no fun.

No.

And like I always say, prevention is way better than intervention.

Absolutely.

The cost is so much less for sure, in any way, shape or form.

So thank you so much for coming on.

I really appreciate that.

The audience will hopefully, I mean, they got a Lot of tips and tricks.

Just those six.

Just writing down the six.

Go back, listen to it again, guys.

Write down those six pillars and really sit and think on them, journal on them, talk about them, whatever it is, because they're all very simple concepts put into action.

You got to put them into action.

You got to put them into action.

That's right.

Absolutely.

Okay, so thank you so much for coming on.

But before you leave, if you could give the listeners one big round of wisdom.

Your.

Your words for the day.

My big thing is, again, I always love to give people some hope.

You know, I feel like so many people are in a critical stage.

I deal with clients all the time now that are like, where I was, where the relationship was, just seemed like, you know, like, was never going to be able to get fixed, never going to be able to come back around.

And that's not true.

I want you to understand that I don't care how bad it looks.

If you're willing to do the work, if you're willing to humble yourself and make some changes, I truly believe that any relationship can come back around and ultimately can be saved, but improved.

And that's the thing.

You don't want to go back to the same old broken relationship.

You want to have something new that actually works.

So if you're in crisis right now and you're going through some pain, catch your breath, this is actually going to be a blessing.

It's hard to believe that, but if you actually get through, you know, work through this and you.

You take it as such, this can.

You can come out on the other side, and this will prove to be an incredible blessing as you learn how to have better relationships and come out on the other side, you'll.

You'll have some things that are.

You'd never dreamed of.

You know, again, my wife and I, today, we have a relationship that is a thousand times better than what it was before.

And if you told me this is the way it was going to happen, I would have said never.

But, you know, like, but now that it has happened, here we are today.

So, yeah, just.

Just hang in there and do some work, and this thing can change for you.

So don't, don't give up hope.

Sounds great.

Well, thank you again so much.

And for everybody else out there listening, you heard it.

There is always hope.

No matter where you are, where you're at, if you're in crisis mode or if you're not.

To me, that is the biggest thing I took from this is you might as well learn these skills before you need to use them.

Yeah, I recommend that.

Yeah, right.

So you all have a blessed week and go hug your spouse.

Have a good day.

Thanks for having me.