E 244: Laugh, Heal, Repeat: Finding Joy After a Cancer Diagnosis: Guest Cara Lockwood

Well, hello everybody, and welcome back to another episode.

Today we have with us a special friend.

Her name is Kara Lockwood.

She is the best selling author of more than 35 books, including the USA Today hit the Takeover and the book I Do But I Don't, which became a Lifetime original movie when she was diagnosed with stage one, her two positive breast cancer, if I said that right, in 2023, after a double mastectomy, chemotherapy and reconstruction, she went into remission in 2024.

Her new book, there's no good book for this, but I wrote one anyway.

The Irreverent Guide to Crushing Breast Cancer is the candid laugh out loud guide she wishes she'd had.

Part memoir and part pep talk, it offers a raw, witty roadmap for patients, survivors and loved ones.

Half of all proceeds benefit the Susan G. Komen foundation and a breast cancer research foundation.

Oh, my goodness.

This is, this is going to be so heartwarming to me.

Hi, Kara, how are you doing today?

Good, how are you?

It's such a pleasure to be on your show.

Thank you so much for having me.

Well, yeah, and I, you know, the name of the show is Adult Childhood Dysfunction.

So people go, well, I don't know if that kind of fits in or what I'm talking about fits in any kind of adversity.

Yeah.

And struggles and resilience and stories of hope and healing.

I mean, that's what we're all about.

Because I know sometimes you just.

Things happen and when things happen, sometimes we don't quite know how to navigate them.

And it always helps to have someone or stories of people that have navigated.

And I absolutely love that you make it a point to say that you do it through humor.

And not this toxic positivity, smiling on the outside, but bawling on the inside kind of humor that some of us are used to.

Exactly, exactly.

Well, like I talk about in the book, which, you know, I think when, when people, you know, get a cancer diagnosis, there's a, there's a lot of reaction to that, but some of it is that you just have to be insanely positive the entire time.

And I just don't think that's true.

I think you can be incredibly salty and sarcastic and still get through with flying colors because I think it's all about, you know, what works for you and how you can find that humor in a ridiculous situation.

Right.

And it's, I mean, how do you find the humor in that?

Talk to me about that.

Yeah.

Well, first of all, I think the first step is just Giving yourself permission to love.

Because I think life goes on.

Ridiculous things happen.

You know, I went in for a diagnostic mri, and because you're sort of stressed out and overwhelmed like it.

I had a hard time taking in information just at any given point.

You know, I was just very nervous and scared and stressed out.

So, you know, the nurse was like, giving me all the instructions about what to do for the mri.

And, you know, I. I actually, like just midway through, just blanked, you know.

So then when it came.

When it came down to, like, am I supposed to take off all my clothes?

Some of my clothes, like, how is this supposed to work?

You know, I only got it half right when I went in there.

I got some strange looks about it, but everything was okay, you know, but at the.

After that, I just laughed at myself and I laughed at the situation because it's absurd.

And then I told my husband about it, and we laughed about it.

You know, I mean, I think it's okay, you know, to be silly, to have silly things happen, to laugh, to be sarcastic even, because I think it's part of taking back your power when you're scared and overwhelmed and stressed out.

Laughing helps settle you, helps take back your agency, takes away the bite of the fear.

Because you can't really be afraid if you're laughing.

Well, yes, I was going to say you can't be stressed out and laughing at the same time.

It's kind of like you're breaking brain is like, no, so.

And also.

And also just the fact that, you know, that positive energy is healing to your body, it's not just healing to your mind.

It is so healing to your body.

And they found that, I mean, there is laugh, you know, laugh yoga and laugh therapy.

And this, because it raises the endorphins.

It gets different parts of your brain moving.

It's flowing.

It's, you know, where you think about, you bring about.

And so the more I feel like, the more positivity and the more humor you can bring into it.

But at the same time, you know, talk to us about, like, obviously you were like, oh, you have cancer.

Ha, ha, ha ha.

You know, it was not funny.

When I heard it the first time.

It was.

It was terrifying.

Yeah, it was absolutely horrifying.

I mean, you know, I think the very first time I, you know, the radiologist called and told me that, you know, it was.

It was breast cancer.

I went into a white room, you know, just of sort of panic, like, you know, I was there, I was on the phone, I was listening.

Nothing was Going in, you know, I was just sort of overwhelmed and then, you know, hung up the phone.

And my husband came in and was like, well, what is it?

And I said, well, it's cancer.

And he said, well, what stage?

I'm like, I don't know.

What do we do next?

I'm like, I have no idea.

And then we call back, and the radiologist is like, well, this happens a lot, you know, so people get overwhelmed.

You know, this is just what happens.

So I think, you know, like, if.

If there's fight or flight, I'm sort of freeze.

Right, right.

So I think so.

Normal.

Yeah.

So that's.

That's how I felt.

Just completely overwhelmed.

Like, how am I supposed to even start to fight this battle?

You know, I. I think.

I think for all of us, no one grows up in a perfect household.

Like, no one has, like, all the answers.

And then when life throws you a curveball, especially, you're like, what do I fall back on?

Like, what.

How do I.

How do I even begin to navigate this?

And so it was really this.

Kind of the start of a long journey for me.

Right.

So if you could give the listeners some advice.

Let's say you do get that diagnosis of whatever, and it could be really anything, because anything that you think is going to change the trajectory of your life one way or the other is going to be a shock.

And you're going to, you know, you're going to go through the stages of being mad and being, you know, like, denial, being mad.

You're going to go through all those stages.

But what would be some advice you might give people, like, for that initial shock, like, how to kind of navigate that?

Yeah.

You know, first of all, I was incredibly lucky because I had a counselor that I had talked to at various traumatic points in my life.

I had a divorce and talked to her.

I had a miscarriage, talked to her and talked through my feelings about that.

And so when, you know, this came up, I knew it was going to be traumatic.

Already.

I already felt traumatized.

You know, I was glad I had that resource.

And she, you know, I'd known her for years, and so I reached out to her, and the first thing she said to me is that cancer doesn't get to decide.

And it was such a powerful sentiment because, you know, when you're.

When you're knocked for a loop with really bad news, it takes over your life.

You feel like you're powerless for whatever it might be, whether that's cancer, some other health issue, a death in the family, suddenly Your life is an upheaval, and you feel like you just have no control.

So for her to tell me the cancer doesn't get to decide, meaning I get to decide my treatment.

If I get treatment, I get to decide how I feel about it.

I get to decide when I have that treatment, who gives it to me.

There's a lot of choice and agenc left to me, and that was so grounding, calming for me to.

To realize that that everything wasn't out of my control.

There were still things I had control over.

So, I mean, for.

For listeners out there, even when you feel like such turmoil, such that your life has turned upside down, I would say look for the ways, you know, that you still have agency.

Look for the decisions you still get to make and make them.

You know, I think that that can help you kind of get your arms around a situation that feels out of your control.

Right.

And I love that saying.

Just that.

Just that saying kind of gave me goosebumps.

Yeah.

Cancer doesn't get to decide.

It doesn't get to decide.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's.

That's pretty profound advice.

It is.

It is.

So.

So talk about the moment.

You said you talk about fight, flight, freeze, and you kind of froze.

When was the moment or was there a defining moment where you decided, oh, hell, no, I'm gonna fight?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I think it was, you know.

Oh, it took me over time.

You know, there.

It's a process.

You have a lot.

There's a lot of medical appointments.

There's a lot of advice friends and family give you.

But I think it was after I.

Told.

My closest friends and family, and at the time, I mean, we have a blended family of five children at that time, three of them were in high school.

My two biological children and my stepson.

And it was just so powerful and frightening to me that, you know, my doctor said, well, my youngest was a sophomore, and they were talking about, well, if you don't get treatment, there's a chance you're not going to see your graduation.

Like, there's a very good chance with what you have.

Yeah.

That, you know, that's it.

And to me, I just.

It had never occurred to me to ever worry about that, you know, to ever worry about not seeing my youngest graduate high school.

It just.

It had always and throughout my life been a given.

Of course I was going to see her graduate high school.

So I think when it became very real, I think just something clicked in me where I was like, I'm.

Cancer doesn't get to decide and cancer doesn't get to take these things.

I want to be there.

I will be there, you know, and cancer is just not going to take this.

So I think at that point, it just really became, you know, me feeling like I was up for the fight, I wanted the fight.

This was something that mattered a lot to me.

Right now, this is kind of off topic, but just something I'm curious about.

So there's a lot of people that are like, well, if I get cancer, I'm not going to do the chemo.

I'm not doing radiation.

I've seen people, you know, whatever.

What is your thoughts?

Not on that, because I know that's total choice, 100% choice.

But what are your thoughts on maybe giving people some moral support as to just really validate what they believe in and what they decide, regardless?

Because it's going to be a lot of pressure from, you know, from everybody.

Oh, sure.

You know, for me, I'm never going to second guess anyone's decision about how they get treatment or don't get treatment for cancer.

It is such an incredibly personal decision.

There's so much that goes into it.

I mean, I myself had a double mastectomy and chemotherapy and immunotherapy.

But at each one of those stages, each of those decisions was incredibly difficult.

They come with loss and, you know, grief and, you know, physical difficulty.

For me, I. I just personally felt like I wanted to throw everything at cancer because I was going to be at that graduation.

I was not going to miss it.

But that was my choice.

I know.

You know, I've read about others and have heard friends who opt for, you know, less traditional means.

You know, I am not judging, you know, I. I mean, it's incredibly personal decision in terms of, you know, how other people feel in supporting friends and family.

It's difficult when you have a very strong view about what.

Whatever it might be, chemotherapy, surgery, any kind of intervention, you know, we all have our opinions, we all have our strong beliefs about.

About what's right.

And when it comes to someone that we really, really care about, you know, we want what's best for them, at the end of the day, they have to be the ones to make that decision.

They have to be the ones to really believe in the treatment.

They're the ones getting it.

You know, if it lengthens their life, if it shortens their life, it's still their choice.

So I think.

I think it's very difficult not to offer advice for people, but also very important that you don't.

Unless it's Solicited, you know, Exactly.

You know, I mean, everyone is unique.

Everyone has different traumas and phobias and anxieties we're dealing with, that we're working through.

And someone on the sidelines with, you know, a pamphlet of information that they feel like is perfect for us, you know, can maybe set us back, know, emotionally.

So I, I would say, you know, let people have their, their own independence.

This is their life.

You love them, but they, they have to make this decision on their own.

I was going to say.

And energetically it does absolutely nothing for that person if you're telling them they're wrong because then they're second guessing themselves and then they're not in alignment with what they're believing anyway.

Like if they have to go through another set of stress.

So that's what I tell people is just be supportive either way.

I mean, like you said, cancer has a life of its own, a mind of its own.

It's like, I've seen people that have gone through chemo and it didn't work.

I've seen people and I've seen people have gone through chemo and it did.

Same way.

Same way.

I've seen people, you know, of course that went the natural pathway and they beat it.

And then I've seen people that are said I don't want the chemo and they didn't.

So it's, there's no right or wrong.

Absolutely.

Just so for the listeners out there, if you have someone, I mean, that's the, my best advice and maybe your, yours too, I'm sure is just be supportive either way.

Yeah, let them know, you know, let them know you support and love them either way.

Exactly.

I, I would say just be a good listener, help them, help them talk through their fear.

Like I, I think it's perfectly acceptable and wonderful if, if you're talking with someone who's like, I'm never doing chemo and then you're like, well, let's, let's dig into that.

Why don't, why, why, you know, I don't even, you know, what is it about chemo that's bad?

Like, what do you fear about it?

Because sometimes just listening and walking through someone's anxieties and fears can also help them get clearer on like why they don't want something or why they do want something.

You know, because at the end of the day you don't want to be the one pushing an agenda because then you take responsibility for that, whether it works out or doesn't work out.

Like you're saying, and so much of that is not in our control whatsoever.

So you don't really want to take on that responsibility, you know?

No, absolutely not.

So.

Yeah, no, I just, I was just curious on your take on that because it drives me crazy when I'm like, you know, when somebody says, I just got diagnosed with this and you hear people going, you have to do this, you don't have to do squats.

Right, right, right, exactly.

And I think the key is really to bring genuine curiosity to, to the situation.

Like, rather than your opinion and your agenda about, like you should do this because I heard it somewhere.

I think it's.

I think it's much better to say, you know, I'm curious about what are your doctors saying?

You know, how do you feel about that?

You know, what, what scares you about it or, you know, what reassures you about it?

You know, I mean, a genuine, like really trying to figure out where they are is much better than trying to push your own agenda when you don't.

Clearly you don't even understand the facts.

Like no shoes.

Yeah, no, exactly.

Yeah.

No, I was just kind of.

I know that was kind of off topic, but I really just wanted to kind of get your take on that because it's one of those things that just gets under my skin and it's with everything, you know, it's with all kinds of heal any healing from anything.

It's people, you just.

It's not your business, like you said.

Right.

It's the person's choice.

It's.

Yeah.

So I want you to share with us a couple.

I know you said you used humor and I, I mean, I am a child from a tumultuous background and humor was my thing.

Like that was.

I could laugh at some of the things that people like, Are you kidding me?

That's not funny.

But talk about, give me some laugh out loud moments.

I'm sure you had them.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Well, one of the, one of the hardest, one of the hardest moments was when I had to tell my youngest, you know, that.

That I had breast cancer.

And it was absolutely, just as, you know, 15 year old in tears, you know, none of it was fair.

I was the mom and suddenly sick way earlier than I should have been.

I was 50, you know, it just horrible.

Absolutely horrible.

But at the same time, she had been stressed out about college applications.

She's very type A.

She'd been thinking about college since she was 12.

Like she was well, well ahead of the game, you know, but she had just been incredibly worried about this.

And then, you know, to break the tension and break the.

Just the sadness, I was like, well, I've just given you the best college app, you know, subject I possibly could.

You're welcome.

You're welcome.

And she laughed even through her tears, because it is absurd and yet true.

Like, you know, I.

You know, in.

In the book, I talk about playing the cancer card.

And you 100% should.

Like, that is the only good thing about cancer is you get to play the cancer card.

And part of that is, you know, writing an essay or, you know, deciding you, you know, don't want to go see your obnoxious neighbor's new kitchen.

You know what I mean?

Right.

There are many things about it, and there are also just absurd things that happen, like, you know, my mri.

But there was also funny things that.

On my first trip to chemotherapy, you know, again, I thought it was a very somber moment.

I was voluntarily poisoning myself, which is never on anyone's agenda.

And my husband was driving me, and I said, well, I'm gonna need.

I'm gonna need a pep talk.

I'm really gonna need a pep talk.

And he's like, okay, all right.

Well, you know.

Okay.

And I'm like, okay, are you ready to give me a pep talk?

And he's like, yes.

And then he just starts shouting at the top of his lungs like a little league coach.

He's like, we're gonna go.

We're gonna go.

Yeah, we're gonna go do this.

Yeah, let's do it.

Let's do it.

And I was like.

I just started laughing because I'm like, why are you so excited?

And he's like, well, it's a Peptide, and he is a little league soccer coach.

So, of course, you know, he's like, this is.

This is it.

This is how we do pep talks.

We scream and we yell.

Yeah, we scream and we yell, and we're really excited, you know, and.

And it was so silly.

It was perfect because, you know, it just made me laugh.

So, you know, there.

There are plenty of things that have happened.

I. I was getting a biopsy, and they.

They poked me a million times because they couldn't find it, and it was, you know, in my.

In my armpit, and I'm like, you know, careful.

I'm ticklish.

And then they laughed.

Right.

You know, which.

I mean, it's just things are absurd, and absurd things happen, even in, you know, times of seriousness, you know, and.

And cracking that joke can, you know, just diffuse the tension, you know, it.

Doesn'T break all doom and gloom.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It just breaks the.

The.

It lightens up the moment in the moment, you know?

Yes, yes.

Like, yes.

I love that.

I. I can just think, like I said, I have a best friend that's going through it right now.

And some of the things that.

I don't even remember exact situations, but I do.

Like what?

Some of the things we would laugh so hard, like, in the hospital where she's getting her treatments and stuff.

You know, the things that you come up with, and it's like.

Yeah.

You know, there's nothing.

I can't even imagine anything more positive than to have somebody who's sitting in there getting their immunotherapy or whatever and getting the giggles and not being able to stop.

Yes.

It's like a beautiful moment.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Exactly.

But it's.

It's like the best medicine, in my opinion.

It really is.

It really is.

So I have another question.

And you use a term, screaming in.

Screaming into the void.

Is that what you said?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So you talk about, like, your journey as being kind of like part pep talk, part what?

I don't remember what you said.

Honestly, I don't remember.

But then screaming into the void and.

Yeah, yeah, These different parts.

Talk about the screaming into the void for me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, because there's so much frustration around cancer.

Cancer doesn't get to decide, and yet there's a lot of hurry up and wait.

There's a lot of waiting to find out what kind of cancer you have, how far it's progressed, what are the treatment options, and, you know, at each.

You want to know now?

I did.

I want to know now.

I want to get it cut out now.

And the doctors are like, we have to, you know, measure three times, cut once, you know?

Right.

I was like, it feels like measure 500 times, but okay, you know, So I think there's just this innate frustration.

There's.

There's a lot of feeling like.

There's a lot of feeling like, why me?

Why.

You know, what did I do wrong?

You know, and so there's.

That just leads into this feeling like I'm just screaming.

Yeah.

You know, and everyone else, by the way, is just living their normal lives.

You know, You're.

I felt like my life was turned upside down and.

And everyone else is just fine, you know, which is.

Which is what happens when you're going through something, you know, traumatic and stressful and you're dealing with whatever you're dealing with.

And.

And it's not fair because everyone has Their stresses.

And everyone has their front, the face they put on.

And you don't really know what's going on at home.

It could be as stressful as is cancer.

There could be something even worse happening in their home.

You don't know, but it feels like you're alone.

It feels like you're frustrated and angry.

And that's where the screaming into the void.

Like what?

You know, just that frustration of, you know, what's going on, why, you know, why me?

And I feel like this book will help people feel seen in that.

That you're not alone.

You know, there are a lot of people screaming and there.

And.

And I think, you know, just the first step is, for me at least, was moving from why me to why not me?

You know, I mean, cancer just strikes randomly, anyone at any time.

It wasn't anything I did.

I didn't press for it.

You know, I didn't have risky behavior that I knew of.

It didn't.

In my family.

There was, you know, there was nothing else I could have done to prevent it.

It just happened.

And so then I had to.

Once I.

Once I got there, then it was less screaming into the void and more, you know, what can I do now?

How can I.

How can I start fighting this?

Yeah.

Instead of looking for these philosophical, unanswerable question answers, questions you just accept.

And that's a big state.

Part of it.

But yes.

I mean, that's another very profound statement that I've heard people say before, is you stop looking at it at why me?

And just why not me?

It's a thing.

It just happens.

So let's.

It's here.

It's got to be dealt with.

So, yeah, let's deal with it now on your book.

I'm excited to actually get your book.

It's already out, right?

Yes, yes.

Okay.

Just came out this month.

Just came out in October.

Yep.

Okay.

So I'm excited to get it because you said it was kind of broken up into like, pep talk.

Your memoirs.

And then the screaming into the void part, which was the most fun or the most difficult part for you to write.

Yeah, you know, they all had interesting, interesting aspects.

I really, you know, I journaled while I was going through cancer, so I had a lot of the memories fresh, you know, in my journal to talk about the memoir part of, like, how it worked for me.

And of course, everyone's journey is different and everyone has a different, you know, set of steps that they go through and doctors visits and that sort of thing, and different kinds of cancer.

But it was helpful to me to talk about my experience.

It just was kind of grounding.

The pep talks were.

I really enjoy writing the pep.

Each chapter ends in a pep talk because I feel that we all need one regard.

Whether or not you're dealing with cancer, you know, someone who is, or you're simply going through a difficult time.

Like, it's.

You know.

During the research for this book, I found out that Navy SEALs give themselves pep talks before missions.

And it was so profound to me because I thought, why do they need a pep talk?

They're so tough and, like, you know, like.

And brave already.

And then I was like, well, if they need a pep talk, then the rest of us do too.

So, you know, I thought writing the pep talks at the end of each chapter was just some tangible way that people could take away, you know, a bit of encouragement, you know, something to maybe get them through the next difficult doctor's appointment or, you know, whatever was next on that road.

Because it's, you know, I think.

I think we all need a little encouragement, but it's a difficult journey, no matter what we're on, so we can all use a little more pep talks, I think.

Yeah, I agree.

And it's funny, the Navy SEALs, like, we compare so many things to the Navy SEALs, because like you said, it's true.

We think they're these big, tough people.

They don't need anything, but, boy, they need pep talks.

They need that visualization.

They need that positive mindset work.

They need it all.

Because it's grueling what they do, and struggling with a disease is grueling.

I mean, flat out, it's hard.

Yeah.

And.

And.

And for me, I think a part of that journey was understanding.

I just had a lot of negative self talk that I had to unwind, you know, for me to even believe the pep talk.

You know, there was.

There was a lot of negativity just running like a playlist in.

In my mind set there from childhood, you know.

Yeah.

And I had to unwind that consciously in a way that I. I never had as an adult in order to really find the strength, you know, to believe that I could get through it, that.

That the treatments would work.

That's true.

And talk a little.

Can you go a little deeper into that with the negative self talk?

Because, like, when you're going through something like this, because we talk all the time on this podcast about the negative self talk and that.

Yeah.

What are some examples of things that you would say to yourself?

And then how would you kind of combat that or answer yourself back it, for lack of a better term.

Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, I realized.

I think I already knew, you know, I had a lot of imposter syndrome.

I mean, I've.

I've written more than 35 books, two of them on the USA Today bestseller list.

Two are movies.

You know, one's Lifetime movie, one's a Hallmark movie.

You know, I just.

But at each stage, there was always for me something that, you know, I would tell myself, oh, well, you know, congrats for being on the USA Today bestseller list.

I mean, it's not the New York Times, but you got to start somewhere.

You know, there was always like this, like, passive aggressive negativity to everything, or like, congrats on the new book deal, but, you know, it's only for two books.

So what are you going to do after that?

Or, like, you know, no one's going to want to read your next one.

Everyone read this one, but no one's going to read the next one.

Like, there's, There's.

There was this horrible meanness in this self talk that, that I.

That was going on in my brain.

And I think I didn't really understand how damaging it was until I was.

I was going to get my double mastectomy.

And this was just terrifying to me because I. I just don't like the idea of being cut on and the idea of losing part of me.

It was very complicated.

I spent a lot of time, you know, crying on my counselor's couch about it, you know, before I made peace with it.

And then, you know, once I made peace with it, I was like, okay, I'm gonna, you know, exercise.

I'm going to try to eat right.

I'm going to, you know, try to get in the best shape I can be mentally and physically for the surgery because I had about six weeks.

So, you know, I started, you know, doing those things.

And then after the surgery, things went well.

Like, I was.

I was irrationally worried about, like, running, screaming from the hospital, booking a flight to Australia, just not showing up.

You know, I mean, there were.

There were plenty of, like, real anxieties about, like, can I even go through.

Through with this?

And then I did.

And then I did well, and I recovered well.

And I told myself, like, I gave myself a genuine compliment.

Like, you put in a lot of hard work, you know, and you mentally, you know, you went to the counselor, you dealt with your fear.

That was hard.

You know, physically.

You know, you started eating better, you started exercising.

You know, these things helped you.

You did what the doctors told you, you took it seriously, you did a good job.

And, and that compliment didn't have a fighting undercurrent of anything.

It was just a genuine compliment.

And I immediately just started crying, like, because I felt like that was the first time I'd ever given myself just a flat out genuine Gucci bob, you know, without, without that passive aggressive, you know, you're not really, you know, that wasn't really good, you know, because it was good.

Like, I did get through it, you know.

Right.

So I think after that I realized, like, God, I've been so mean to myself for so long for no good reason, you know, I'm gonna stop that.

Like, I mean, obviously we can't stop at all and overnight.

But now when I hear that negative playlist running, I challenge it, you know.

Now when it's like, you know, oh, you know, you've done well in this book.

No one's going to read the next book.

And I'll challenge it.

I'll say, everyone's read all these other books, they're going to read the next book.

If they like the last one, they'll read the next one, you know, but it's really about not letting the loop run, like, without challenging.

It's really about paying attention and then challenging it.

And I think now I'm doing that more consciously than I, than I ever, than I ever have.

And it's, It's a hard habit to get into because especially if you come from.

And a lot of the people on here listening have come from those tumultuous backgrounds where you're wired to look for negativity.

And, you know, like you said, you had the.

It's survival.

And when your brain is wired for survival, that's what you're trying to do is survive.

You're not trying to thrive.

And.

Right.

So.

And I always talk.

It's like the stop and you know, like the stop, drop and roll when you're on fire kind of thing.

I say that with the negative self talk.

It's like nip it in the butt.

Like the minute that thought comes into your mind, question it, challenge it, make yourself show proof of that.

And you can't do it because usually it's something that you're amazing at.

Like, you.

Right, right.

You wrote 34 books.

Why would you write a 35th?

Nobody's gonna read it and just be like, what?

What?

That's crazy.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

And especially when you're going through a health issue.

I had doctors tell me, my surgeon, my breast Surgeon told me, well, you know, if you think, if you think you're going to do well, you will do well.

You know, like there's a lot of studies about that.

Like if you think you're going to do well, you will.

So if you have this negative self talk that's telling you the surgery is not going to work, the chemo is not going to work, nothing's going to work, it's hopeless.

There's a chance that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, which is the last thing you want, you know.

So negative self talk isn't just like bad for self esteem and your feelings.

It can also be literally bad for your health.

So I would tell people, yeah, no.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

Yeah, I mean, so, because that negativity can literally harm you, might even kill you.

I think it's, it's, it's all about, if that doesn't encourage you to like take another look at it and take it seriously, you know, then I, you know, you should, I mean there's just.

There'S just so many studies.

It's not, it used to be woo woo, you know, all this stuff, but now there is so much science behind it.

And it is true.

If you think, if you think negatively, that's what the universe is going to give you.

If you say it's, it's not working, well, your wish is granted, my loyal friend.

It's not working.

So here you go.

So yeah, that's.

And it, and it is hard to do but you know, fake it till you make it just stop it and eat.

And you, eventually you will start to believe it because you're going to start to rewire those synapses and all those neurons that are firing in that negative way.

You're going to start to rewire them to think, yes, it's working, but you have to, you have to listen to your body and, and catch yourself.

And do you have any tips for like, like I used to carry around a journal with me and like a little book and every time something popped in my head like, oh, you're so dumb.

Why would you do that?

I would stop and I would write that down or I would say it out loud.

You're not dumb.

You are amazingly smart.

You have two master's degrees and you know, like, why would you say you're dumb and question it and stop yourself?

But do you have any other tips on how to do that for these people?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, for me, when the first.

I would challenge.

So the very first thing, like, you know, if I.

If I had, like, you know, that.

That.

That chemotherapy won't work for me, you know, I would challenge it.

I would say, well, the doctors say it will.

And, you know, all of this science says it will.

So I think it will, actually, you know, I.

You know, that the negativity didn't have, like, actual research backing it.

It was just.

It was just fear and anxiety, you know, and.

And a lot of the time that fear would be, no one's going to love you because you're going to lose all your hair.

You know, I mean, if you really got down to it, it wasn't even about, like, the therapy not working.

It's really about you being.

Me being scared of being, like, rejected, you know?

Right.

And then.

And then you would be, like, digging deep into that.

So.

So you can challenge it.

You can get into a fight with yourself about it sometimes.

I didn't really have a lot of, you know, like, time and energy for that, so I had a. I had a mantra to sort of silence the negativity, which is, there's no way but through.

So because my.

My negative.

My negative voice kind of would be like, you don't want to do this treatment.

Why don't we just quit?

You know, like, maybe there's a lot of bargaining in with the negative negativity.

Like, maybe we don't have to do it.

You know, maybe we could go to Australia.

Maybe we could find a herbal doctor.

Like, maybe we could do all these things and get out of this hard thing in front of us.

And the more the bargaining happened, that's when I realized it was just fear and anxiety, you know, and then I just told myself, like, there's.

The fastest way is through.

Like, there's.

There's no bargaining.

There's no shortcuts.

There's no.

There's no magic bullets.

It's all going to be terrible.

And we just have to get through, and we don't have to get through like a ballerina or a gazelle.

We can get through ugly crying, you know, we can.

We can get through like a bull in a china shop.

Just got to get through.

You just got to get through.

You just got to get through.

Yeah, so sometimes it was just like, there's no way but through.

So that was those.

Those negative thoughts would come, and I was like, there's no way but through.

So it would just sort of silence it.

Like, we just got to keep going.

Like, we just have to keep on the path.

I love that.

I love that.

Love all this information.

And I think I can't wait to get your book and this has been fun.

Good.

Yes, I do, thank you so much.

I do appreciate you coming on.

And I will have all of the show notes in the, everything that you have, all your links as there.

Do you take calls?

I mean, what do you do?

I know your money goes, the books, your money goes to half of it to organizations and everything.

Do you work with people?

Are you just a support or how, how does that look?

Yeah.

So on my website, Kara, the author, Kara with A C karateauthor.com People can reach out to me, email me.

I, I do.

I'm happy to send little, little pep talks or some people have asked for book plates.

Those are little stickers that are like signed stickers because they can go right in the book.

So I'm happy to do that.

I also work with a non profit called twistedpeak.org so they send out care packages to people in treatment and I'm providing for every book purchased.

A free one goes in to the, to the packages.

So I'm just trying to, you know, let people know they're not, not alone.

If anyone ever wants to connect on social media, that's all on my website, you know, I'm happy to offer encouragement, you know, if I can, just, just to let people know they're, they're not alone.

Perfect.

I love that.

And I, like I said, I'll put all those show notes in there.

I'll put a link to your book and everything because I think the book, I think, you know, you don't want to read.

I'll be honest, like if you're going through that, I've had people that are going through it and they're like, I don't want to read another story, story, another sad story.

Because they're like, that's not helping me.

But to be able to throw humor in there and to have the pep talks and to be able to skip through the book and to navigate and to go back to a pep talk that you might need one day when something happens.

I mean I, I love the way you set that up and I love, you know, just the pep talks alone is so encouraging and that we, we need it and it means so, so much more coming from someone who's experienced it.

Yeah, absolutely.

And there, there is an audiobook version too.

So if you, you know, have several hours at the infusion center and you, you know, just want a little bit of humor, a little bit of encouragement, you know, in your ear, that's something available too because it's for me, I'm really hoping to show people not.

Not the.

Here's.

Here's exactly what happened to me and how horrible it was.

It's.

It's really more.

How do you go from, you know, being panicked in the White Room to being a warrior?

Like, it's the transformation, and a lot of that's pep talk and dealing with the negativity and just emotionally, how do you handle it?

Right.

Right.

Well, thank you so much for Kara for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me.

It's been a pleasure talking with you.

Yeah, absolutely.

Now, you're not off the hook yet, because I always ask the guests to give the listeners one last piece of advice or something tangible, or if you had to give your best pieces of wisdom for how to navigate from diagnosis to remission or whatever that looks like, what would it be?

Yeah, I would say you're stronger than you think you are.

And, you know, you really, truly are.

Don't.

Don't listen.

There.

There will be people who be like, ah, you got it.

And you're like, I don't have it.

You're stronger than you think you are.

And.

You will get your arms around it.

It'll take some time.

It'll take a lot of tears and a lot of emotion, but you will get your arms around it.

You're stronger than you think you are.

And trust yourself, because you're stronger than you know.

Amen.

Thank you so much.

And for everybody else out there listening, you heard it.

You heard it right from her.

You are stronger than you think you are.

And I love some of the quotes.

You know, the.

The quickest way is to go through it is there's no way but through.

No way but through.

Yep.

And I also love for everybody else out, and this goes for everything.

I mean, people on here, they're going through adversities that might not be a cancer diagnosis, but they're going through stuff.

And all of this applies to any kind of trauma, any kind of life event.

It's.

It's all practical information that we can all use for sure.

And I just.

I love that you came on to share that.

If anybody out there is listening and you want to ask questions to myself or, you know, drop a comment below, let's see how we can work together.

If you need a pep talk, let's do it.

I love those pep talks.

So.

And I will see you guys back next week.

Thanks so much.

Thank you.