E 242: The Power of Horses: Stress Management and Self-Awareness w Guest Sue Willoughby

Well, good morning everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction.

Today we have with us Susan Willoughby.

And this is going to be such a fun one.

Susan is an equus coach, a truth teller and reinvention expert, helping women over 40 ditch the burnout, trust their gut, and live boldly with horses as their guides.

I love this sentence too.

She turns midlife meh into powerful, purposeful change.

Welcome, Susan.

How are you today?

I'm well, thank you so much, Tammy, for having me on.

You are very welcome.

So I'm just going to jump right into it because I love my dog.

First of all, my daughter loves horses.

I actually got thrown from an Arabian.

I was thought I was gonna ride this hardly ever been ridden horse when I was about 12 years old and got thrown.

Well, didn't even get thrown.

Died throat tossed, foot caught in the stirrup, kicked about 18 times.

Didn't get back on a horse until, oh gosh, when I went horseback riding like 35, 40 years later.

So.

But my daughter absolutely loves horses and I watched her and what she wanted to do was worth work with autistic children through horses and I thought, how crazy.

Like how, how, what's good therapy?

You know, I, and I watch on TikTok all these videos of people like little kids hugging their horses and children with down syndrome just like feeding the, like feeling the energy.

And so I'm, I'm enthralled, but I know absolutely nothing about the topic.

So I'm excited to have you here.

Yeah.

So what, what exactly is equus coaching?

Let's start there.

Yeah.

So equus coaching is a partnership with my equine counterparts to work in, in tandem to help clients realize their own potential, their own answers and everything that lies within them.

So horses act as a sort of a feedback loop, you might say, because I'm watching the horse's behavior as they're interacting with the clients and that gives me some really valuable information on how to ask really good open ended coaching questions and get to sort of the crux of the issue or what somebody is really struggling with rather than what they're telling me they're struggling with through their connection with the horse.

So that's, that's it in a nutshell.

Right, Right.

And I'm sure it's way more complicated than that.

And is it give.

Tell me, I mean, why our horse?

Do horses have a spiritual kind of instinctual vibe, kind of like dogs do different?

Yes.

And it's one of those yes and answers horses, because they are prey animals, right?

Horse, our dogs, are predators, right?

Their eyes are in the front of their head.

Horses are prey animals.

So everything about their being is about survival.

All of the information that they take in through all of their senses, including every cell of their skin.

You know, they can sense a little tiny fly in their butt and just twitch that little area of skin to get it off.

But they're taking in information constantly and they're processing it because they want to know, am I safe?

Is this thing or this person or this other horse going to be a threat to me or is there some predator that's stalking me?

So they're taking in information all the time.

And, and when they do that, and when they communicate with their herd members, because they're also herd animals, they have this beautiful non verbal communication with the other members of their herd.

And when we are in their, you know, their, their bubble, their space, we're one of the herd members.

And so they're assessing, you know, from a point of, you know, heart connection, biorhythms, they're, they're sensing what is coming from inside of us, not the face that we present to the world.

They don't even see that, you know, they, they connect with us on a much deeper level.

So when you were talking about, you know, autistic children or children with, you know, special needs, I mean, that's how I kind of got started connecting horses with humans back when I was a teenager working at a summer camp for individuals with special needs.

Horses connect on a way that individuals that may not be able to communicate through autism or whatever that are nonverbal can connect with the horse in a beautiful way because the horse does not understand.

We can talk to the horse all day long, but a nonverbal person communicates with the horse on a different level.

So when horses are communicating with us or taking in information from us, it's all at a, at a deep, you know, physical level so they can get us out of our heads and into our bodies.

So many amazing things.

So that's kind of a broad brush.

Yeah.

No, I mean, I think all of this is going to be a big, you know, the big picture kind of just generalization, because I didn't.

I don't know.

Yeah, I do.

You know, it's kind of.

But I feel like it's almost like, I mean, a horse to me.

I feel like it's almost like, like I said, my dog, like my dog knows when I'm sick.

I don't have to say I don't feel Good.

She senses it and she.

And the end, she reacts to that.

So what are some, like, what would give me an example of.

Let's say you're working with a client and that client is really torn up, like just really, really distraught.

What are some things you would look for in the horse to where those aware that would make you aware.

As you said, you kind of use the horse's cues to see what's really going on.

Yes.

So I would have had a conversation with the client and they may, there may be something that they are, they're working on.

I don't know if it's grief or if it's something else.

Now I'm not a licensed therapist, so I don't work with deep trauma.

However, if someone has been in a trauma situation and is working through that with a therapist, they may come to have a little bit more of a deeper connection or get over a plateau or something.

So if someone comes in there, they're having some emotional things that they're dealing with, whatever that is in their life, maybe divorce, maybe something else, who knows, right.

Whatever it is, it depends on what, how they're presenting and what they're actually feeling.

So by working with the horse, they may be, they may have been pushing all of these feelings or this emotional whatever it is that they're dealing with, they may have been pushing it down the horse can through the pure essence of being a horse.

And that's the thing.

They don't need any special training.

They, they're just sensing, processing and reacting in accordance to what the other herd mate.

In this sense, it would be the client is feeling and how, it's how what's going on inside their body.

So people may not quite understand.

Right.

Because we spend a lot of time in our heads, let's face it.

Right?

Yeah.

They're walking around and we're just like a head bobbing around.

The horses, because they're present in every moment of their existence, force us to be as well.

So they, they help us get grounded, they help us get back in our bodies.

And so if I see a client that is expressing some emotion or something, I will ask them how they're feeling and if they come back with a word, I'll ask them again, what are you feeling?

Where is this thing coming from in your body and what does it feel like?

And that is it.

That takes a minute.

If, if you've not been processing your emotions and your, you know, all of the things that, that have happened to you on that level, it's going to Take a minute.

And it could also just open a floodgate, literally and figuratively.

And the horse, if they don't care what you're going through, they don't care if you're scared, they don't care if you're mad, they don't care if you're whatever.

What they care about is if you're being honest and if you're being congruent and if you're putting up one facade I like, you know, because that's basically what it is.

If you're putting up this facade or this wall, the horse may keep its distance because it doesn't feel safe.

It.

It's sensing that there's incongruency in how you are presenting and what is really.

So by, you know, observing where the horse is and how they're reacting with the human, I can say, okay, what are you feeling?

What is this thing that, you know, what, where in your body do you feel this?

And once they can sort of let go, relax, get grounded and let some of that guard fall away, the horse will be more willing to interact and then they can, you know, the horse may come over and just stand by them.

The horse may, you know, come up and, you know, put their head on their shoulder.

It.

It just depends.

So it's a big, huge form of muscle testing a little bit.

Yeah, you're using the horse's muscles, so I mean, that makes sense.

So I guess because like you said, they are prey, so they are in survive, not in survival mode.

But they are geared to be intuitive.

I mean, that's how they're wired.

That's how they're born.

Completely intuitive.

And that's interesting.

So.

So if you.

Information very quickly, you know, they take it in, they let it go.

They take it in, they let it go.

As long as that, you know, they're like, safe, not safe, safe, not safe.

You know, threat, not threat.

Interesting.

So if somebody comes up to them and they go to like, hug them and they've got a big old smile and they're like, angry inside, that horse might.

Could back up or stiffen or.

Yeah, so those are kind of the signals you're looking for.

Yeah.

And I also teach people how to, like, approach the horse in a way that.

Because you're.

It's how you're showing up in relationship.

Because this is what it is.

It's a relationship with this animal, with this creature, with this being.

And how you show up with the horse is probably going to be how you show up in relationship anywhere.

Interesting.

Very interesting.

I always Wondered like that's.

Like I said, I know why, but now that, that clears up so.

So many hundreds of questions I've had throughout the years about why people happy to do that, you know.

Well, thank you for that.

So, so what, what does a, a session look like with you?

What is that?

How do you walk through?

Like, just the basics, obviously, not the whole thing.

Yeah, I want, on a one on one session would be the client, myself and the horse.

And the client and the horse are in a round pen usually if, if one is available, or a smaller enclosed arena so that the horse is.

The horse doesn't have a bridle or a saddle or anything.

There's no riding involved.

The horse is at liberty, free to move about at, at will.

And then, you know, I obviously go through a safety demo because I want people to feel safe and show them a couple of ways that they can interact with the horse.

If they want to try and move the horse, it just gives them something else to think about.

So it's not about the task, it's not about the activity.

It just gives them some ways to interact.

And then as they're interacting with the horse, I'm watching the horse's behavior.

I'm watching the person's behavior.

What.

Maybe they're, what they're saying because, you know, let's face it, we like to talk because we have mouths and.

Right, right.

They may be talking a blue streak to the horse.

The horse is like, whatever.

And then that gives me the opportunity to, you know, that someone may have set an intention for the, for, for the session.

Or sometimes I like it to just be organic and see maybe, you know, just a broad topic that they want to explore.

And then I let them explore and I let them interact with the horse and see what comes up and see how the horse is reacting to their interaction and how they're showing up and how the horse is showing up.

And I'm outside of the conversation, so I'm just observing.

And I may at some point interact and say, you know, what, what's coming up for you?

Because I'm watching the horse and I want to know if the person understands or can sense and especially can feel what is happening to them in a specific moment.

Like if the horse all of a sudden breaks contact and walks away, I may say, what just happened there?

Right.

You know, what, just how, how did that relationship break away?

You know, you didn't send the horse away.

The horse just decided to disconnect.

And they're like, oh, well, I, you know, whatever.

They may come up with like, I started thinking about something or I started feeling a certain way or, or, you know, so it's, it's very simple, it's very organic and it's also very powerful.

Yeah.

So how would you, how, like, how does it work for like stress relief?

Do people come.

Is it just because a horse is calming or is it because there's like this reciprocating back and forth energy?

Yes.

And all of the above.

I know I'm asking a lot of questions in one thing because I'm, I'm learning a lot.

This is really intriguing me.

I love that.

So for stress relief, I mean, where does stress come from?

Where does it originate?

Is it, you know, where in our body is it showing up?

And the horses can be really helpful with that.

Releasing, allowing people to build an awareness of what's going on inside them rather than just spiraling off in some, you know, story thought, you know, spin out.

Oh, you know, once you get, you know, because it's, it's like a domino effect, right.

Once you start thinking about something, then you start thinking about that and that and that and that and that.

And then before you know it, you're like off to the races with some crazy thought that you had.

Right.

So the horses can help to break that thought pattern and get you back in your body and start thinking about, how do I feel?

You know, let me take a beat and think about how I feel before I react, before I spin out, before I have an anxiety attack, you know, before I get all balled up and stressed out.

You know, because sometimes you can just be so wound so tightly that if you knock your coffee over in the morning, well, that's it.

My day is ruined.

You know, my, the rest of the day is just going to be crap.

And, you know, all of that, this kind of, you know, like, oh, I spilled my coffee, I guess I gotta make another cup.

Let me clean this up.

And right, so it can calm your, help calm your nervous system and give you some tools to start to build that awareness.

Like the horse, right?

I would say be the horse.

When, when something causes the horse to startle out in the pasture, they're going to look around, they're going to listen, they're going to, you know, they're going to take a moment to be like, okay, what's going on?

And if their heart starts racing, if, you know, whatever, what does that feel like?

How can I, how can I take that physical information and process it in a way that will inform my next move?

That Will inform my reaction.

So it.

It really does.

If you're interesting thinking, if you're acting, you know, processing things physically, it gives you that moment to, you know, because if somebody makes you mad, if somebody, you know, upsets you, you feel it.

Right.

And most of us don't take the time to.

They just react.

You just react.

You're like, you hurt my feelings or, you know, whatever, and Right.

Lunge at them.

This gives us a moment to, you know, build those awareness skills and start to feel before we react.

Right.

And I can see, too, it kind of works like the.

The other way around too, because I'm with.

If I'm with a horse and I'm hugging his head and I'm talking to him, or I'm just thinking, whatever.

And then all of a sudden he tenses.

Then you.

Like, you're right.

Like, it's like I have to think about, why did he do that?

Like, what?

So that is part.

I guess that's.

Is that the basic gist of part of how it works too?

Because I'm picturing me being with the horse.

Like, if the horse all of a sudden backs away, I'll be like, okay, what's going on with me here that I have to.

That I'm scaring this horse?

Right.

Like what?

You know what?

Because now by this point inside me.

Right, right, right.

And I'm sure.

I'm sure you.

Oh, sorry, go ahead.

No, because you.

You're right, May something physically changed inside you that, you know, you weren't aware of, because in that moment when you were close to the horse, it may have triggered something inside you that you're kind of unaware of.

Right.

But you're like, oh, oh, Now I feel like this kind of icky feeling in my gut or.

Or.

Or my heart's.

You know, my chest feels pressure.

Why am I feeling that?

So it makes you curious, like, if the horse is gonna move away from you, it must have been pretty intense because otherwise, you know, that they may feel it before you feel it.

It's.

Yeah, well, exactly.

And, you know, you understand it.

Yeah, Right.

And I'm just kind of now, like, really getting into the whole energetic thing.

So, I mean, it makes sense.

Like, it's.

It makes total sense.

And being.

It's like the horse is this huge 300.

I don't know how much a horse weighs, but three or 400 pound.

Empath.

Twelve hundred pounds.

Twelve hundred pounds.

Twelve hundred.

Yeah.

Yes.

No.

Okay.

So I have no idea how much.

I guess that makes sense, but yeah, so that oh my gosh, that makes so much sense.

So you work with mostly people over 40.

Is, is it just because that's kind of when you had reinvented yourself or is it just of the age where you realize how many people are in this stuckness?

Yeah, yeah, I've reinvented myself so many times over the years.

But I think that women, especially in that midlife and that can be anywhere from 35 to 70, you know, whatever, have this period where they start questioning their current identity and they, they may have spent so much time as, you know, a mom, a caregiver, you know, take whatever being in corporate America and they're like, is this all there is?

And you know, what am I going to do with the next phase of my life?

They may be looking at retirement.

They maybe, you know, so I feel that it is that time of questioning, right?

What, what's next?

And that is a difficult time because I also think that sometimes women feel when they reach a certain age that they become invisible and that they don't, they're not seen the same way or not seen at all and they don't feel like they have much worth or well, I'll just sort of fade into the, fade into the abyss and it doesn't really matter.

But it's reinvention.

It's, you know, it's like it's a time to, to reassess things and be, what else?

What can I do?

Let's get curious, let's get, you know, build that awareness, build that curiosity and think about what you could, you know, feel into what you could do next.

Right?

So what do you tell those people that are absolutely just terrified to make changes to.

Because I feel like a lot of people, I mean, 40s is a good example because a lot of people, their kids just went off to college or, you know, they're empty nesters, they're not a mom, quote, unquote, not a mom anymore.

That's not their job, that's not their identity.

So they kind of lose that.

What do you, what do you say and how do you help people through the I'm afraid to make changes kind of stage?

I think everybody's afraid to make a change no matter what it is.

And that's just fear of the unknown.

And I think the other big thing about it is that if you have been so focused and so wrapped up in your identity as whatever mom, corporate executive, whatever it is, that you don't know what is on the other side of that.

So it's scary.

And the biggest Biggest fear, the biggest thing that's scary is, like I said, the unknown.

The other thing is, if you're going to try something new, nobody likes to look like a beginner.

Nobody likes to.

You know, it's like, I don't want to.

I'm gonna look stupid.

My friends are gonna think I'm crazy.

It's all about other people's perceptions, which is a beautiful thing about the horses, because they don't judge.

They don't care.

They don't care.

So if you want to, you know, experiment, you know, think about, like, I'm gonna skip around the arena, or I'm gonna, you know, just sort of let my hair down and.

And enjoy myself and explore what might be.

What might bring passion to me.

The horses be like, yeah, let's.

I'm.

I'm in.

Let's do it.

You know, let's.

Let's be.

Let's be true to yourself.

Right.

They're feeling the positivity and the joy in that, not the weirdness.

Yeah.

They're not going to judge you.

They're not judging you.

Yeah.

So I think I'd say, you know, back to your question.

What.

What would I.

What do I tell people?

Like, you know, take off your identity glasses, put on your.

I'm looking at things through beginner eyes, and remember how much fun it is to actually learn something new or to try something new.

It can be very exciting and very invigorating and put the fear aside if you try something, you know.

And the other thing is, I think people think, oh, if I do this thing, I'm gonna have to put in the 10,000 hours.

I'm gonna have to be, you know, expert at that.

And you're not.

I mean, I've done a lot of things, you know, learning to fly a plane, you know, learning to play polo at 63.

I mean, these are all things that, you know, if you do it, great.

If you just try it and enjoy the experience that is in itself beautiful.

If you can just let go and enjoy the experience, it doesn't matter how silly you look or whatever, nobody's going to judge you.

And if they do, that's on them.

That's not your thing, Right, Right.

Absolutely.

I.

And I love, though, that you said that the horses, they don't judge, they don't care, and they're.

They're feeling the energy, which is making them feel safe and making you feel safe, so.

Or them.

The women feel safe.

What do you talk to about your clients or what are some things with your Clients that are, like, breakthroughs that they've had while dealing with the horses are there.

Give me a couple examples, because I'm.

I'm very intrigued with this.

Like, some things that they found out about themselves or discovered about themselves just because they were with this gigantic, joyful animal.

A lot of times, some of the things maybe, you know, women especially tend to be people pleasers.

Right.

And making sure everybody else is taking care of and not taking care of themselves.

So that, in and of itself, is an issue with boundaries and saying no.

And horses are very good at testing and pushing your boundaries and helping you be aware that you have a boundary issue.

For example, someone may be interacting with the horse, and the horse is very close to them and keeps getting closer.

And at first.

And I may say, so how.

How does that feel?

Oh, that's.

You know, the client may say, oh, that's great.

You know, they're just being snuggly.

And I'm like, okay, we'll see.

Right.

And the horse may, you know, get to the point where they're nudging them with their head or they're nibbling at their jacket or.

Or something else.

And they may just get to the point where they're just being a little pushy.

And I'll ask again, how does that feel now?

Or how does that feel?

And then they're like, not so good.

It feels a little invasive.

Oh, okay.

What can you do?

Right.

And what can you do to.

To change that scenario?

Well, I don't want to hurt the horse's feelings.

Okay.

That's an interesting response.

Red flag.

Yeah, that's right.

That's a very.

Yes.

And that's exactly what I would expect as a response.

Yeah, I don't want to hurt the horse's feelings.

I don't want to send the horse away.

I don't want to push the horse away because they think maybe the horse won't come back and snuggle when they actually want it to.

And so we'll go through some exercises about, you know, creating safe and healthy boundaries.

So that's a really good one.

And that comes up a lot, I'm sure.

Yeah.

I'm gonna test your boundaries for sure.

Another one, you know, might be something like, you know, people are transferring their stuff onto the horse.

The horse may be.

For no other reason.

Not that they don't feel safe or anything else, but.

Sorry, my dog is barking.

Hold on one second.

Molly, stop.

Sorry about that.

My dog.

Yeah, lover.

So I'll go ahead.

I'm sorry.

So the Other.

Another one is that, you know, transferring of what you're feeling and things that are bothering you onto the horse.

Like it's.

The horse is doing this.

So, for example, if the horse is just being horse over in the corner of the arena, the person may immediately start talking about the horse.

Right.

Horse doesn't like me, is bored.

The horse is ignoring me.

The horse is this.

The horse.

Is that the.

So it's everybody else's fault, but theirs.

Tell me more about that.

Right?

Why.

Why do you feel.

Why do you feel that?

Well, the horse is standing over there in the corner and they're not coming right up to me and they're not, you know, and they're not interacting with me and they're not.

Oh, okay, tell me more.

Right?

Why do you feel that?

Why do you feel like the horse is ignoring you?

Well, he's just standing over there, you know, and so it begins.

Does that have, you know, how does that translate to you on a regular basis?

And then they're like, oh, oh, yeah, yeah.

So it's like.

Then they realize that this is how they feel in real life.

And this is.

They feel that people don't like them.

They feel that.

So of course that you're going to internalize all those things and put up walls so that you're going to push people away because you already assume that they're not going to like you or that you're boring or that you're.

Whatever.

So not about this.

Yeah, I mean, it's just like a great big.

I mean, it's.

Mirror, mirror, mirror.

Exactly, I was gonna say.

And not only that, but like, it's like, okay, so then when you explain, hey, this is how horses work.

They're feeding off your energy.

They're like, maybe the horse is, you know, and.

And then you.

You open yourself to a whole can of worms of.

You have to be self aware.

You have no choice at this point because I came here to play with this horse and the horse doesn't even like me.

So what, you know, it's.

Oh, my goodness.

It's just complicated.

We're complicated.

Very complicated, but yet.

It's very complicated, but yet the big picture of it is kind of simple in a way.

It's really simple.

Yeah, I mean, it is really simple.

I mean, the horses, to take responsibility for yourself, they teach you to be more aware of what's actually going on with you.

The thing is, like I said, horses are just information processors, right?

If, you know, they take things in and they process them and then they Let them go.

And that's the other big takeaway that we can get from horses is they don't typically hang on to things.

Now, have horses hold.

Can horses hold on to trauma?

Absolutely, if they've been abused or neglected or whatever.

So it may take a long time to reconnect with that horse and bring that horse back into themselves where they feel safe and they feel comfortable, just like humans.

Right.

But they're really good at getting a message from another individual in their herd and getting like, okay, I got you.

I will not eat your hay anymore because you just kicked me in the butt.

So they're not gonna then, you know, go back to their other herd mates and be like, you know, Sally over there kicked me in the butt, and now she's just ignoring me and blah, blah, blah, and making up this whole story about the.

That incident.

Right.

And then relating it and building on it and just living in that loop.

They're just like, okay, I know Sally gonna.

Sally's gonna push me off the hay pile.

Right.

I gotta go find my own hay pile.

Message received.

Right, Right.

So if people are listening to this and people are like, wow, this sounds amazing.

Are.

I've never heard of an Equus coach.

Are there a lot of you out there?

There are.

And actually, I mean, depending on what area you're in.

So I'm in the Pacific Northwest.

I also have retreats periodically in various places in California and so forth.

But we do also have a database on our website, center for Equus Coaching.

If you're looking for someone in your area, you can also Google Equus coaching or Equine assisted coaching to find someone who does this type of connection with horses near you.

Okay.

And would you suggest getting familiar with horses in general before you try to do this so that you don't go in and petrified?

No, no, not necessarily.

Because when you're with the horse, if you're scared, it's okay.

You know, the.

Whoever the practitioner is is going to teach you some safe interactions and show you how to be safe.

And they're also not going to let you get, you know, hurt.

And if you do have a fear of horses, that's okay.

Maybe you just start out by brushing the horse and being close to the horse.

That is a huge interaction right there because that in and of itself will calm your nervous system.

I was.

I was gonna say just.

Yeah, just like petting a dog or they say, snuggle with your dog.

It drops your cortisol levels by like, 20.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

So there's lots of ways that you can be with horses that it's not scary or threatening.

You know, no one's going to put you in harm's way or have you interact with a horse.

That's unsafe.

That's amazing.

So if you had to sum up all of your jobs, all of your experiences, I mean, I'm looking at your thing, and you've been a dj, a comic, a pilot, a coach, like, you do all kinds of stuff.

How would you put that into one big package?

I mean, how does that shape you?

Like to work with your clients?

Yeah, I'm.

I'm.

You've done a lot.

I'm.

I.

And.

And it's out of curiosity.

It's out of exploration.

It's out of just being like, I want to explore that thing that is.

Has come.

It's.

It's about being open.

And I think if you're open, you're going to have more things presented to you.

And, And.

And when you're open, you can be more aware of what's coming in into your.

Into your, you know, your.

Your realm, your bubble, your whatever.

Expand that bubble.

You know, be expansive, be curious, explore and, you know, build some awareness.

And don't be afraid to try new things with beginner eyes.

Even if it's something very routine that you do, like drive to a certain place, take a different route, open your eyes and be like, oh.

Or take the same route and just notice one thing that you have never noticed before or that you've just taken for granted.

I think if we start looking at life as an experience, it's.

It's a lot healthier way to go through.

Go through life.

So I've had a lot of experiences that I just love, and, you know.

It'S all good and good, bad, ugly.

I mean, you got to learn how to navigate them all.

It's the journey.

Yeah, exactly.

The journey.

So tell people where that.

How they can work with you, how they can find out about you, where they go to find.

To talk to you.

Yeah, that's great.

You can go to my website, Willoughby coaching.com I'm also on Instagram at Sue Willoughby.

And if you like, you can check out my podcast, Midlife Strategies for Badass Women.

Okay.

And all of that will be in the show notes.

And you also said you had something that you would like to offer, something fun.

Tell us about that.

Kind of off the topic of horses.

It's not about the topic of horses, but it does go along with coaching and personal development and professional development.

I have over a decade of real estate experience, and I love podcasting.

It has been such an amazing way for me to connect with people all over the world.

Uh, so I love it, being both as a guest and a host, and I wanted to open that up to real estate agents.

And so I have created a limited series podcast called Podcasting for Real Estate Pros.

And it's 21 really short episodes to walk you through the process of creating a podcast and using it as a marketing tool.

So while it may be geared a little bit towards real estate agents, anybody in the entrepreneurial space, or any midlife person, woman, whatever, if you're thinking about creating a podcast, go give it a listen.

It's on Apple, Spotify.

It's called Podcasting for Real Estate Pros.

There's also a free.

It's free.

It's a downloadable resource.

I've got a workbook that walks you through, gives you actionable steps to actually create a podcast, and 21 episodes.

So it's.

It's a pretty fun little adventure.

Very cool.

And I'll put that.

Can I put that in the show notes, too?

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, perfect.

Perfect.

So.

Well, this was fun.

So I really, like I said, I came into this completely curious and ready to learn, and I learned a whole, whole lot.

So thank you.

You're welcome.

It's my pleasure.

I love talking about horses and how cool they are.

Yeah, absolutely.

And if you could.

You're not off the hook yet, though.

So if you could give the audience one tip, trick strategy, or words of wisdom from Sue Willoughby, what would it be?

Well, I think it's kind of that same theme that I've been talking about the whole time is be curious, abc.

Always be curious.

Be curious about your surroundings.

Be curious about what you're feeling.

Be curious about what lights you up.

Be curious about what makes you react and why.

So, abc, always be curious, abc.

I love that.

Thank you so, so much for coming.

Yeah, thank you.

And for everybody else out there listening, you heard it.

Go check her out and learn more about this, because it is absolutely fascinating.

And check her out.

And you guys have a blessed day, and I will see you back next week.

Thank you.