E 235 From Conflict to Connection: Building Stronger Relationships with Dr. Dan Snyder

Well, hello, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction.

Today we have with us Dan Snyder.

And I am going to put my glasses on.

Ugly glasses.

But that's okay.

He is an experienced couples and individual therapist.

He has overcome childhood trauma, been married and divorced, and has two amazing young kids that he loves dearly.

His signature program, the Intimacy Shift, a blueprint for moving from conflict to.

To lasting connection, teaches people proven skills and practices to transform their relationships.

Well, welcome, Dan.

How are you?

Yeah, good morning, Tammy.

I'm doing well, like I was just saying, you know, I've got the kids this morning up and off to school, and now I'm here talking to you.

It's a, it's a good day.

Well, good.

I don't, I'm going to be very honest, I don't miss those days.

Mine are, I think my youngest is actually.

I know, I don't think.

I know.

My youngest is 21.

So I, I had those days, but mine were, I was, I, I guess you could call them latchkey kids.

I mean, my kids were getting themselves up and out the door for I don't even know how long.

I couldn't.

It was crazy.

But, yes, no, that's, it's a busy morning for you.

So you do what most people wish they could do, which is keep, keep couples and keep intimacy alive in a relationship.

And I, I love that topic because I feel like most of the people that I deal with are kind of at that stage where I just, I just don't know anymore.

I just don't feel it anymore.

It's just not there anymore.

And talk about how you got into wanting to fix that problem for people.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, it's, it's all wrapped up in my story, of course, and, you know, pretty common story of that wounded healer's journ and wanting to learn things from my own life and then to help other people with the same thing.

So I grew up in a household where there was zero to no affection really shown between my parents.

There was a lot of emotional abuse, and it was not at all what I wanted in my life.

So I didn't have the role model.

I really looked TV and movies and maybe friends, parents, to see the kind of relationship that I wanted, you know, a safe, loving relationship.

And so growing up, I knew that that's what I wanted, but not exactly how to get there, that's for sure.

And I was in therapy from my early teenage years and really appreciated that space to be able to talk, to be able to learn, just to have a quiet, safe space where I could talk about all the crazy things that were happening at home.

And so, yeah, moving into adulthood, you know, the kind of therapy that I was interested changed as I grew older.

So I worked with teenagers and I worked with families for quite a long time and loved that work.

I was a school social worker.

I was a residential treatment center counselor and really got so much out of that.

And as I got into adult relationships and my ex wife, now my ex wife and I had our first kid was when I started to want to work with couples, because sure enough, I was in a couple and trying to figure out how to do that whole thing.

To live with someone, to start a family with someone, to share finances and to be intimate with that same person, you know, year after year, was not something that any of us learned how to do in school.

And like I said, I didn't learn how to do it growing up.

So that's really how I got into that work, was sort of following my path and my journey.

And then over the 10 or more plus years since then, I've just been fascinated with couples.

And I'm a person that really likes to be in it with people.

And when you're working with a couple, I mean, you are in it.

I have heard and seen all of the things, and that's just my passion, really getting in there with couples and helping them to move through these big life challenges that they find themselves in.

Yeah, and there are.

Because you think about all the major things.

I mean, some couples get married so young and they're moving away from home at 19, 20 years old, never been around, and then there's all these transitions, Children, money, I mean, all of these things.

What.

What would you say if of all your people that you deal with or just in what you've learned is the number one factor of what really causes that kind of in a marriage?

That that's, you know, sometimes, you know, that sound.

We all know what that means.

That's.

It's the best way to describe something.

Absolutely.

Well, just like you mentioned, you know, this signature program that I've developed, you know, I, and I call it the intimacy shift, because that's something we've all experienced in our relationships.

When we first meet someone, we all know that head over heels feeling.

There's passion, there's excitement.

Everything they do that's new and different, we love because it's new and different.

And, you know, you mentioned a few things that are, you know, common and that we've all experienced over time where yeah, maybe we have kids or we have to move or there's financial struggles or our.

Our bodies change or someone gets sick.

The common factor in all of that is over time, things have changed.

So how do we learn to handle those changes over time?

And when things shift, what do we do?

Do we get upset?

Frustrated?

Do we walk away?

Do we shut down our feelings?

And so in this program that I've created, I really try to have a process for anything that could happen, not just one thing, because in a long relationship, a lot of things are going to happen.

Right.

And so the number one thing that I see is couples, their intimacy shifts because something has happened or some 10 things have happened, and they don't know how to call it out, talk about it, and rebuild some of that trust and intimacy that maybe they had at the beginning or maybe they never had at all.

So many couples are relying on the excitement and the passion from that first year or two of the relationship to carry that through for 20 years, and that's just not going to work.

We have to have a really strong foundation of trust and being able to talk through things calmly, safely, really hearing the other person.

So these are all skills and practices.

Again, I didn't learn them growing up, but there are skills and practices we can learn and practice.

And those are the sorts of things that I teach couples so that they have a framework for whatever comes up.

Right, right.

So give me.

Can you give me an example of some of those?

Like what might be something that you could have a couple just let's say, for instance.

Well, let's just say they come in and they're like, listen, the passion is just gone.

I don't know what.

And I'm going to go from the side of.

Let's assume that the people listening on this podcast called Adult Child of Dysfunction didn't have the best role models.

I know my parents, I never saw them hug.

I don't even remember hugging my mother or my father, really.

So.

But I never saw any kind of intimacy.

It was always fighting.

So.

Come from a point of.

They really didn't get a good role model to begin with.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And similarly, that fighting was the kind of intimacy that I knew.

And it is a sort of intimacy.

It's a.

It can be a placeholder for genuine intimacy.

Like, well, when we fight, there's an excitement to that and big feelings come up and we get hooked a little bit on that roller coaster ride of feelings that come from arguing and conflict.

Um, but what I want to share with your audience and What I share with couples is, you know, the kind of stable, safe, healthy intimacy that is going to feel really good in a relationship.

And it's going to build this sort of emotional and physical intimacy where we feel good with our partner, we feel safe and loving.

And so I start, you know, with the basics, just being able to have a conversation about our feelings.

It sounds simple, but it is not easy to do.

And I know that from personal experience, for sure.

But step one that I share with all of my couples is let's plan a weekly time where the two of you are going to sit down and talk to each other.

No ambushing.

In so many couples I work with, one person's ready to talk, and if the other person isn't ready to talk, it's not going to go well.

And so we don't want to ambush the other person.

We want to know, hey, on Sunday afternoon, that's our relationship check in.

That's when we sit down and talk.

Both people can plan for that.

They can know ahead of time, oh, this thing that's bothering me, I know that on Sunday I can talk about it then, and it's a safe place for me to bring it up.

I'm not going to surprise my partner.

So that's step one is just having that time set aside regularly where we're going to have a conversation.

Now that doesn't, you know, solve the problem, just having a time to talk.

But it's a step one and it gives us an opportunity to practice.

Just like going to the gym to work on your physical body.

Like, we all need that consistent practice, especially if we didn't learn it growing up.

How do we have these conversations with our partner?

So, number one, we've got to actually be prepared, know ahead of time.

This is when we're going to talk through things.

We could be talking about the schedule for the week, we could be talking about our finances.

It really could be anything.

But the idea is that time is sacred, set aside, and we want to work on things.

So that's step one, and that's something that I teach all my couples.

It's something I include in my intimacy shift program in that very first session, because it's a fundamental building block.

Absolutely.

How many of the couples do you think that you see, on average, a really strong.

I mean, if.

Is that the.

I mean, how many.

Some couples I've talked to might drop out just in that stage because they can't even get past that.

Like, that has to be mediated for some people, I would only assume because if they've never, you know, if you go 20 years or 10 years and you've never really had those conversations, it's hard to make that a safe space.

Do you have a lot of couples give up at that point?

Yeah.

Great question.

Well, I can tell you that part of being a therapist is, you know, sometimes couples will come in and say, you know, Dr. Dan, we didn't do our homework.

You know, we didn't practice the things that we were supposed to between last session and this one.

And so that does absolutely happen.

And I tried to be very encouraging, and I say, well, we're going to keep talking about the same things, because if we can't do step one, it's going to be really hard to move on to step two.

But, yeah, we absolutely can build on that skill.

So, again, not just like, okay, schedule meeting, and then everything's better.

So we've got to build some of those skills.

And so some of the next skills that I want to build with couples is that kind of safety.

So step two, right?

How do we enter a conversation in as calm and ready a place as possible?

So I personally, I will get hangry if I don't have a snack on hand.

So if you're going to sit down and talk for a while, have a snack on hand, get yourself comfortable.

This isn't a business meeting.

Nobody needs to to feel like they're in trouble.

When we're in a relationship, we are on a team.

And that is a point I hammer home as often as possible.

It is not me versus you.

It's not I'm right and you're wrong.

You know, we've got to work on things together and be on the same side against the problem.

So when we're coming into these conversations, let's have a snack.

Let's be in comfortable clothes.

We can put on some soft music if we want to.

Let's actually turn it into an activity that we can look forward to.

It's almost like a date.

You know, you're spending time focused on each other, and then from there, all of the things that I've learned over the years, I'm trained in a style of therapy called emotionally focused therapy.

And some of the skills from that form of therapy that I teach are skills like reflecting and validating and active listening.

So these are things that I will have couples, you know, with scripts, you know, try saying it this way to really learn the skill.

And I'd say the main thing that I talk about with couples in these conversations is how to use I Language instead of you language.

Maybe that's something you've covered on your podcast before, but I find myself doing it sometimes and, you know, I have to stop and catch myself.

But anytime I'm talking with my partner and I'm saying something like, you know, you do this, you never do that.

You always do.

That's critical language.

Right.

I'm criticizing them.

They are absolutely going to be defensive.

They are going to be on guard.

And now it's me versus you, because I have said that you do something that's wrong.

So I'd say that's if there was a key thing to take away from this conversation.

For the people listening, it's really getting clear on how I feel and sharing with I Language to my partner.

You know, I am feeling, you know, sad because, you know, I miss us spending time together in the evenings after work.

I know that I feel really tired, but I miss that time.

I would love it if once a week we could do something together.

Well, now the whole conversation has shifted because I'm sharing my feelings.

I'm sharing what would feel good for me.

And it's not an attack.

It's not a criticism.

And now we can have an actual conversation about, well, how do we solve that problem together?

Maybe that's something my partner really wants to.

Right.

Versus you never come home in time to give me any attention and blah, blah, blah.

I can.

I can see the.

The shift immediately.

It literally.

Yeah, no, what a big difference.

And things I'm sure you heard in your house growing up.

Things I know I heard in my house, it was you language all night and day.

So this is something I've really had to practice.

I was.

I don't ever remember.

You know, I'm thinking that, you know, we.

We need to do this.

It's never a we.

I don't think I've ever heard we.

Except we need.

We need to separate.

We need to get away from each other.

We need to.

We need to figure out who's going to take the kids.

Like.

So, I mean, and I'm sure that's, you know, at the.

That that's the extreme end of it, but no, what a.

What a shift.

And it's like everything else in the world of just looking at it with a little more compassion.

It's like I tell people, you want to shift your whole workplace.

Stop asking people.

You know, when people come in and they're struggling and they're having a hard day, stop saying what's wrong with you.

You know, it's.

It's Just words, our words are so powerful.

And instead of saying that, just say, you know, what's going on with you?

Or what can I help you with?

Or, you know, so just that one little shift of I from you to I is amazing and huge and can probably help a lot of conversations right now.

I love that.

So give us some other skills.

This is, this is good because this is what I want on this podcast.

I want people to have some tangible stuff to go, oh, yeah, I do that.

Because it's all about.

It's not about blaming ourselves either, but it is about self reflecting and our part in this because we both have equal parts.

Well, maybe not always equal, but we both have a part in this in every relationship.

So, yeah, certainly.

Well, and I love the way that you said that too.

It's not about blaming ourselves, which I know I'm an expert at certainly, but it is a self reflection piece.

You know, if we notice something without blaming ourselves, without, you know, heaping the weight of the world on our shoulders, then we have power to do something about it.

So I love the way that you shared that.

And another dynamic that I see all the time with couples is a pursuer and withdraw cycle.

So in any relationship there's two people, right?

Of course we are different because no two people are the same.

So there will always be one person that tends a little bit more to withdraw, to shut down, to push the issues to the side, not wanting to talk about it, not ready to talk about it, and one person who's more the pursuing person that, okay, I'm ready to talk about it.

This is a problem.

Let's work on it.

Let's do this, let's do that.

I'm ready, I'm ready, I'm ready.

And you can, you can hear in that there's, there's a lot of energy associated with shutting down and there's a lot of energy associated with pursuing and even like an aggressiveness to that.

And so it plays out in our conflicts all the time that one person does not want to talk about something and the other person needs to talk about it.

So what do we do when we get caught in that cycle again?

Right, because we can just stay stuck there forever and it becomes another one of those.

You never want to talk about things or you always are telling me what I did wrong and that's where we can live.

So first thing is just knowing, okay, each person is going to tend more towards one versus the other.

That doesn't mean there's anything wrong or bad with them.

But Just knowing that's where I tend to go, and that gives me power to try to change it.

But what I tell couples often is that the person that's withdrawing or maybe not quite ready to talk about things, they're often doing their best, probably always doing their best.

They want to talk about things, but they either can't or they don't feel safe to.

And maybe one out of 10 times, they might say a little something of like, hey, what about this?

And it could be quiet.

It can get missed.

But they tried, right?

That was their effort.

And if we want them to come to the table more often, we've got to notice those small times where they tried.

We've got to create that safe space to invite them into the middle.

And on the other side, the person that's, you know, I want to talk all the time, let's get into it.

This is an issue, let's fix it.

We need to soften that person a little bit.

And they may need to be self.

Aware.

Right.

Self reflect that.

Okay.

That energy, it's overwhelming for my partner, it's a little too much.

How can I turn the volume down a little bit there?

So those.

Those dial knobs.

Right.

How can a withdrawing person feel safe enough to turn that dial up a little bit more to come to the middle?

How can that pursuing person turn their dial a little bit down so that it's safe?

And so we work on adjusting those knobs, but being self aware is the first step.

Just knowing, okay, that's the energy that I'm bringing.

It's not bad, but it's not working in this relationship.

Right.

There's no right or wrong, but there has to be a balance between the two people.

Without a doubt.

What do you do or how do you suggest for people or for people out there listening when you have a couple and they're both the withdrawing kind, and now you're 10 years in, and there's nothing like, there's nothing that's been laid on the table for 10 years.

Yeah.

And.

And that absolutely happens.

You're.

You're 100.

Right.

And sometimes what happens is a pursuing person or someone with more of that energy over time because, you know, they haven't been able to talk things through, they just stop.

Right.

They get hurt.

They realize, you know what?

This isn't working.

I'm done.

And now they've started to withdraw.

So what I often find is within.

Within one of those partners, there is a kernel.

Right.

Or there's a spark of someone that really does want to Engage, but has felt defeated or rejected for so long that they've given up and they've shut down, they've thrown their hands up in the air.

But if we can find that spark and we can really lean into that and we can talk about, you know, the hurt or the disappointment, that sadness, that's a different way of bringing them to the middle than, you know, anger or frustration, because that angry, frustrated energy, like, that's not.

That's not going to bring them to the table.

But if we can tap into that sadness, what they're missing, that they really want to feel close to their partner.

Now we have something that we can work with.

If their partner can see, okay, they really do want to connect with me.

Now we've brought them back, too, because in a relationship, we want to connect, otherwise we wouldn't be there.

Right.

We don't always know how.

There's often a lot of hurt piled on top.

But we want to feel close to our partner.

And even just hearing that so many times in sessions, I'll see partners who have been looking at me or looking to the side the whole time.

When they hear their partner share that longing, that sadness about the disconnection, then they turn towards each other.

And it's so beautiful to see that hopefulness, that longing come into the room.

Right.

Well, I think.

And it's not in.

I don't want to say in today's world, because the relationships have been relationships forever, but it's very easy to get complacent.

And that's where you, you know, it's very easy to be like, things aren't great, but they're not bad.

Like, you know, he's not mean.

He's not, you know, and I see that a lot with the people I deal with, and a lot of it is because I think they both came into, you know, wounded people attract wounded people.

So if you grew up with childhood trauma, that other person very likely could have a very similar.

So they avoid confent confrontation, big word early in the morning.

They avoid that at all costs.

So it is very easy to see how people like, okay, if I say anything, it's going to start a fight.

And then, like, it's not worth it.

So what are some strategies or maybe even some.

I mean, you've been giving so many little good tips and nuggets of how to really, like, start those conversations about, like, I want it better.

I want to feel that again.

I want to be passionate again and intimate and.

Yeah, yeah.

Such a.

Such an informed question.

You have you have lived.

You have had relationships.

Tammy, I can tell.

And worked with maybe some of the same people that I have.

So we're not all different.

You know, all of us having that longing for connection you're describing.

And I noticed all the I language you were just using, so I would validate that, like, great job sharing from an I place what you're wanting.

That's a great start, you know, with your partner, because now you're inviting them to the conversation.

They're not the problem.

They're not doing something wrong.

You're telling them what you're.

What you're wanting.

So great place to start.

And so many times you mentioned complacency.

That happens in the bedroom.

I work with a lot of couples about physical intimacy and sex, which is another one of those things that very much shifts over time and is an area of sensitivity to people.

Because this is our physical bodies.

Our physical bodies may have changed.

We can all be very sensitive to hearing, oh, I'm not doing something that's pleasing to my partner or something that's right.

This idea of right and wrong.

And so, like, we, like we've been talking about starting with I language.

And then I always.

And this is an always statement, but it's true, because I always will start with small steps.

Any progress, any forward momentum is good.

It doesn't have to be a giant leap.

Couples that have been struggling for years, it's not going to change overnight.

But we're going to stack small steps and notice progress over time.

So for a couple that has been complacent or things have been okay for a while, if we want to get from okay to a different place, and we're going to take a lot of small steps between here and there, and any way that I can get the two people in the couple to agree, that's a win.

So it doesn't have to be.

This is terrible.

You know, everything has to change.

But if we can agree that, yeah, you know, it's been a while since we've had sex that really felt exciting or passionate, then we've got a source of agreement.

And now we can go from that agreement to, all right, how can we do the next thing that feels good for both of us?

Not a giant leap, but we'll talk about, well, what have we been doing and what is something that maybe interests us or that we want to try?

And if both people are willing and interested, then, you know, we take that next step and then we keep going forward.

But small steps is the key.

Love it.

Love that advice.

Absolutely.

Well, perfect.

Oh my gosh.

I could go on and on.

Do you have any other tips and tricks for us?

I have as many as the couples that I've worked with.

You know, I learned a lot of new things, things each day and that's, that's part of my enjoyment for this work is that, you know, couples will come in and they'll say, you know, we, we tried it this way or we're in this situation and, and we work through it together.

So I've got a lot of tips and tricks that I've picked up over the years.

Oh, I can only, I can only imagine.

But I mean, you do great work.

You do.

Absolutely.

Do you work mostly in an office?

Do you do remote?

How do you work primarily?

Dr. Daniel?

Yeah, absolutely.

So all of the work that I do is remote.

It's online.

I've lived in several different states, so I'm a licensed clinical social worker in Illinois, Colorado, Florida and North Carolina.

So if any of your listeners are in those states, they can reach out to me and can work with them either one on one or as part of their couple.

About two thirds of the sessions that I do are with couples and I do some individual therapy work.

And then the signature program that we mentioned, the Intimacy Shift, and that's the landing page for the website, the intimacy shift.com.

and that's a 12 week program where you can live anywhere in the world and participate in that program.

It's not therapy, it's an educational program where week by week we're doing skill building.

And I'm going through all of the tips and tricks that I'm talking about today.

I'm teaching how to apply those skills one week at a time to get your relationship from a place of conflict or complacency to a place of connection and healthy intimacy.

So you don't go, ugh, to good.

That's a great way to explain it too.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, that sounds great.

And I will put, obviously put all these links in the show notes so people can find you and everything else.

Now I want to.

I mean, I could literally talk to you all day long.

I'm sitting here and I'm like thinking of all the people that are like, well, I need to do this and I need to do that.

And you know, and, and just the.

I mean, you're a licensed counselor.

I am not.

I've been married one time for five years and one time for 25 years.

So you can.

There was definitely some shifts from the first one to the second One.

So.

But what's.

If you could give people out there listening one piece of advice or something, just your big picture, what would it be?

Advice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we've gone lots of tips and tricks along the way.

And the number one thing that, you know, I want people to hear and to think about today is that they are often one deep breath away from their situation getting better.

So just taking that moment.

I know so many times I have said something before, I've taken that deep breath and gotten myself in big trouble, or I have done something, you know, I've done some kind of action that has hurt somebody.

And, you know, I every day try to remind myself this and remind everyone I work with.

You know, we're one deep breath away from things getting better.

Taking that moment to pause before saying the thing that you really want to say but is going to make it worse or doing the thing that is going to make it worse, not better.

I absolutely love that.

That is one of my biggest tips for people as well.

In just what I do.

I'm like, before you react, just one deep breath.

Because I would say, especially when you're in a crisis situation, 8 out of 10 times, if you take that deep breath, what comes out of your mouth is not what would have before the deep breath.

It's so beneficial.

Thank you so much.

I haven't had anybody give that one yet, so that's great.

Well, thank you so, so much, Dr. Dan, for coming on.

I appreciate you.

Yeah, me too.

Thank you for having me.

Oh, yeah.

And I think everybody is going to get lots of tips and tricks.

And guys, check out the show notes, find out where to find Dr. Dan.

You know, go out, listen to them, take the course.

I mean, 12 weeks, 12 weeks to go from ugh to yay.

It sounds like an amazing plan.

So thank you, everybody.

For everybody else out there listening.

Doesn't matter.

As always, it doesn't matter how long you've been in this situation that you're in.

If you're in a complacent situation, if you're.

If you're not in that intimate situation anymore with your partner, spouse, whatever it is, there's always a better tomorrow.

Always.

Always.

If you want it to be different, you can always change it.

So thank you.

You all have a blessed day, and we will see you back next week.

Bye.