Securing Your Faith In The Future with Sidney Minassian

Ian Hawkins 0:02

Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back. You've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it and what to do next. Before we start by one request. If any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the and Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this work, I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it.

Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's guests. Sydney. Minassian. Sydney, how are you?

Sidney Minassian 1:09

I'm great. How are you? Going? Really?

Ian Hawkins 1:12

Well. We met at the AFL recently and you thought everyone was cheering for you when they were cheering for Sydney. But turns out it was just a swans right? Yeah,

Sidney Minassian 1:22

it's a good feeling Sydney Kings game Sydney Swans games and during the Sydney Olympics as the man.

Ian Hawkins 1:31

Now, there's so many different pods, we can yell them with you, Sydney, do you prefer Sydney or said,

Sidney Minassian 1:39

I usually introduce myself as Hi, I'm Sydney for the first time. And then after that I always sign off with its said or I'll call you and say and it said both whatever works.

Ian Hawkins 1:51

Let's run with that. There are so many different angles, we can go with your story because it's quite diverse and so many different angles. But I want to start with the big stuff. And one of the things we're talking about when we met, we're just talking about business and a whole lot of different things. And and you reminded me before we jumped on is that I was asking you a lot about that, that moment for you the big moment. So tell us a bit about that moment where everything changed in your life where everything started falling apart, and how that sort of played out for you.

Sidney Minassian 2:23

Sure. So it was the moment was a big business failure, which resulted in a financial wipe out personally left me with a bunch of debt was the house. Three kids I was in the US. youngest one was 30 days old, I had to let go of 20 people and shut down a business rally. And then yeah, figure out how the hell do you bounce back from that both mentally as well as financially and all of that good stuff. So that's the big moment. And the lead up to that was, you know, my background is 20 plus years of doing different tech ventures in Australia and a good five, six years in Silicon Valley. And we, you know, come up with a concept done some validation generated some revenue from an initial product. And then we had this grand vision for next generation version of the product. And we, you know, I put a lot of money into it already to bankroll it to get it to the point that it was then we brought on external funding, both from private investors, and then venture capitalists and packed up wife and kids to kids at the time, prove to the US and to launch this business. And everything seemed great, you know, you've got the VC money, you've moved successfully. And there was a real wind behind our sales if you like. And we launched at an event called demo, which there's two big launch events in the US TechCrunch and demo. And we ended up winning the People's Choice Award. million dollar prize. So lots of things where you're like, Wow, this, this is really going going well. And then from that point of getting all the attention and putting it out in media and you know the showmanship and all that good stuff, lots of interest from potential acquirers. So AOL mail, Yahoo, mail, Blackberry out of Canada, all these struggling companies that saw our innovation and thought this might save them as well as your regular Salesforce and, you know, so on. And he went from that to the you know, all that interest to the within the next 12 months run out of money. Product didn't really work the way we intended it to work in total conflict between the founding team and we had had to call it a day, you know, so that's it.

Ian Hawkins 5:00

was the writing on the wall? Like, did you see that it was coming? And you like knew that that was the inevitable finished? Did you hope that it wouldn't? Were you in denial? Like, what were those last weeks and months? And or actually probably days? Like?

Sidney Minassian 5:18

Yeah, so how far back do you want to go?

Ian Hawkins 5:23

Because it's

Sidney Minassian 5:28

because one of the takeaways I've taken from that experience is look out for the false positives, whether it's in business or in life, and have the fight early, when there's a real alignment that needs to happen between people, right, whether it's a personal relationship, whether it's with your dad, or whether it's with your wife, or husband or significant other partner, whatever that may be for you. Or it's a business partnership, or it's a team person, you know, person in the team that's not working. So back to your point about, were you in denial, hell, you are in denial for a long time, and you've got this, you know, and then how do you justify that? Because on the one hand on the, you know, optimistic positive person, just by DNA genetics, on the one hand side, one just being positive, on the other hand, am I kidding myself? And I might enter my denying what's actually going on? And am I hoping that magically things will just fix without facing them, you know, head on. And what I now talk about is, have the fight early, if there's a fight you have, and you might end up with a bloody nose, but you're avoiding brain? hemorrhage, right?

Ian Hawkins 6:38

Yeah. So let's not go too far back, because I want to we'll come to that as we go through the chat. So why was it? Because when I asked you is like, what was that the biggest thing that happened in your life? Was that was that the one? And you said, yeah, absolutely. Like to why?

Sidney Minassian 7:00

Well, I think if you think about from an ego perspective, that's the biggest thing that ends up leveling you. And it was from a, you know, it was from a great height to then a complete drop and a Wipeout. And it was this promise of I'm, you know, taking the family overseas, you know, we're pursuing something, and we're going to come back, and we're going to be better off financially, and we're going to be better off, you know, let's say on how people think of us, like from a, you know, what's your standing within the community? You know, you know, could I've been have built another Atlassian? You know, could I have built another one of these companies that have succeeded, right? Culture, amp or whatever. And it wasn't that it was, yeah, we raised money when failed, and came back. So, you know, it's leveling on the ego. And then it's also requires you to reevaluate everything. And so it's when you say, why was it the biggest it's because it, you know, and I'm glad I took it as a gift to reevaluate lots of things. And I've been, I've been really mindful and deliberate about constantly reevaluating, and now I challenge myself and everyone else to be reevaluating every day, because life, you know, is it moves along, it's never the same.

Ian Hawkins 8:20

Yep. You because You will get to the fact that you do coaching as well, because you are a coach, you're, you're already seeing how this relates to the next part of the conversation. So I just want to come back to the actual event, because what I know people take the most learning from is to be able to resonate with how people were feeling, what mentally what was going on for them, how it impacted their relationships. So can we get a window into what that's like, to the depth that you're open to discussing on how you said, you're pretty happy to talk about most things? So what was the impact for you personally, from that mental and emotional perspective?

Sidney Minassian 9:04

Well, just in terms of personality, I guess I'm a, sort of a protector of everybody in my sphere, whether it's my wife and kids, and then you know, that's the core nucleus of who we are. And then outside of that, my immediate family so you've got my parents, my in laws, my brothers, you know, and at the time, they weren't married, whatever they are now with kids, I've got, you know, wonderful nieces and nephews. And then, of course, there's, you know, the people that back to me, like the, you know, angel investors who just believed in me for so long and put money and then there's the venture capital investors who you'd say it's a risk capital, this is what the business is, you know, two out of every 10 bid, you know, investments for them, you they know, statistically is going to be wiped out, you know, five wall, just return money and then there'll be one or two unicorns that pay for the portfolio. But still what? You know. So there was that sense of responsibility that comes with this where you're saying, you know, what's the impact of the relationship? So for me, I'm a people person, like I've been pursuing ventures all this time, but I'm actually driven by people and relationships rather than chasing the dollar. And so therefore, the kinds of things that I've always tried to do is not been necessarily the ones that make the most money, but it's been, can I create the most value and the most impact? And yeah, sure, there's an element like recognizing who I am now, there's, of course, elements of ego involved. And the ego is I created something that didn't exist, and it was the good and it improve something. So I have learned that about me. But back to your question of the impact on the relationships, Well, luckily, I've got a amazing wife who has stood by me and has been, you know, steadfast and solid. And she was like, Well, you know, frankly, you got us into this, you get us out of this. So she was believed in me that, yes, it's not the end. For us. It was simply so I wasn't as worried about them. And we had young kids or the real focus was on the kids. And they didn't know what was happening. So they didn't feel it. And even everything that happened. It wasn't like we were ever got, you know, thrown in the street. We've got, you know, a will. Okay, but being we had great support network around us with parents and whatever going, do you need help? And I'm like, too proud. No, I don't want your help. I don't need your money. I don't need anything. So it was really looking after those people who were worried about me, I think, right. So there was an element of that. And then those are people that backed me in, you know, how would how do I, you know, continue to earn their trust and respect and, and these are wonderful people. I'll never forget the first guy that ever wrote me a check. And I'll call him out because he's worthy. Glenn Fielding, Melbourne based, great Australian businessman. And after knowing him for a while, he'd been you know, first, I tried to sell him a product that we were selling at the time, and he was not interested. But I like what you're doing. Keep in touch son was like, alright, so every time I was in Melbourne, I Glen, I'm in town, you know, you want to grab a coffee? Yeah, absolutely. And I'll tell him, we've done this, we've done that we've done that. And then eventually came time that we were actually fundraising, we'd actually figured out something really cool. And I had this amazing deck that I prepared to pitch to him. And he just pushed it aside. And he said, Just tell me, what do you want to do? And I said, Well, you know, we believe there's some smarts that we can build in email that improve the lives of professionals. And we're doing that just great. How much money do you need? We're raising half a mil what can you put in? 50 100? Is like house 100. Yep, literally, to get a checkbook. And he goes, here is the money, but do not lose your family over this. It's only money. Wow, that was my first check that I ever got. And you go, wow. And it's not like he's got money to waste. No one has money to waste. That real sense of understanding people in humans and whatever. So, little bit back, you know, why it ties into your question is, I had these kinds of people that I was like, I can't just walk away from this. These people have not invested just their money, but they've given me their love they saw and I can't just go well, that was a business transaction that didn't work out.

Right. So invested in you are invested

in me. Right. And, you know, Glenn ended up reinvesting in the next venture, which was the comeback story. But that's the kind of people I've been blessed to have in my ecosystem. It's around.

So was there an element of you? Was it guilt was a shame? Like, what were you feeling about the fact that these people that are invested in you, and then having to make that ultimate call ago, we can't take this any further? We're done.

Look, all of the above. Yes, guilt, shame, disappointment, in how it happened, disappointment in myself. And I could have, you know, and they were all very kind about it, because this was right at the time of the GFC. So everyone went, everyone was saying says we can't believe how far you did push this. We can't believe you did get follow on funding. Oh, there was GFC. So the venture capital market was tied up so you couldn't get follow on funding after your follow on funding. And I was like, No, that wasn't it. We just screwed up. We self imploded. I was found the CEO, I could have done better. I did it. Right. And, and so yeah, so therefore, it was that honest conversation with them. And it was also that sense of, I've screwed up, but I didn't try to own that. But then I also recognize that in the big scheme of things I will bounce back. I will I continue to be loving and caring towards them and the people that have been around me, so I had still faith in me. So it wasn't like I was done and oh my god, I can't recover from this. It was like, I've had, you know, a significant screw up. And I feel responsible, and I feel bad, but I'm not going to dwell on it. I'm gonna get on with the next thing.

Okay, and what sort of timeframe we talking about? So the moment when you realize we have to finish this up? Like, was it the then having to check your ego and admit defeat was at the moment where you basically the last day all say goodbye? Was it the things that were left unsaid? Because like, it sounds like there was a big chunk of stuff that was outside of your control that contributed to this as well. So what like, what was the timeframe? There must have been some grieving process through that, and how long were you able to? Before you're able to go? Well, I just need to get on with it now.

Yeah, so there was, I'm gonna say good 10 months worth of us trying to throw everything we could to save the company, let's call it that. And it was right at the time of GFC. And hit, we're in the US, capital markets have dried up, we'd raised, you know, over five, six mil. And so when the next round of investors look at you, they say great concept, I can see why you're passionate about this, I can see when you show traction, and that this is good going off, come back to us, we'll invest but the problem was our product had not quite found product market fit the concept was great. We made a great attempt, but we hadn't nailed that. And so of course, we didn't have the traction to show and we'd already taken on too much money and didn't show enough results for it. So we were trying all sorts of things, you know, we ended up, you know, we brought out product management specialists, we brought a US based CEO, so I stepped down from the CEO role into a, you know, Chief Evangelist sort of role, we try. So there was a period of we were trying lots of things, but what ultimately resulted was me speaking to the board and saying, and they probably would have invested more money than existing investors, but it was me knowing you know, what we are, this is not going to go anywhere, because we have other issues, we have founder issues, I was having issues with my co founder, the product seemed like it was never going to resurrect, we would need to almost restart. And so there was this grieving process believes of trying to understand your question. Yeah, there were months off trying all sorts of things. But you know, that the inner throwing everything at it, and then, okay, you've tried, you've tried doing everything you can to save it, but you're better off calling it quits putting a line in the sand, and allowing everyone to go and reinvent restart, where you do what they got to do.

Was there a moment that was sort

of a timing thing, I guess, building on to that, but then there was that critical moment, my son was born in October 10, of the 10th of the 10th. And then I specifically remember 30 days later was when we shut down the company. And then the impact of that was, you know, I was in the US, my visa was connected to the company, which meant we had 10 days to leave the country with a 30 day old kid. And you know, I've just lost everything. So I've lost the company, I've lost my job effectively. So I'm no longer co Chief Chief, evangelist, liaison, whatever. And I'm in the most expensive part of the US Palo Alto at the time, so I'm paying four grand a month rent. Plus, now I'm on my own, which means not for the company, which means I now have to pay two grand a month health insurance. So that's 600 a month after tax before anything, let alone you know what's happening outside of that, like car or, you know, whatever. Yeah, that that was sort of the leader. So there was a leader, but then there was this moment of I'm gonna put food on the table. And so I don't have time to dwell, right. And so

yeah. So it was the your child being born the moment or was there an actual moment where, like, was it? You're in a meeting and suddenly you like, or was it like when you're away from work was suddenly it just dawned on you that this is just this is not going to work? And then what we do?

Yeah, so month, or month out from when my son was like, the last couple of months before we shut down like there was intense Company Activity Board activity where everyone you know, we're trying to throw different things at it. But then it was that moment of, you know, there's an element, there is one more element of truth that I've been holding back, I just need to have it out with my co founder, I need to have it out with my board, right? And just say, this is the way I see it. And we're like, we're done. We're done. Right. And for these reasons, we're done. And let me give you the clarity of why this is the case. And it's, you know, it's all basically being able to say, we felt, and so we can keep playing, you know, cover up in games and putting more lipstick on the pig as such, but I don't want to do that. I don't do that, because I'm just delaying the pain. So once you know, so let's not, let's not do that. So there was that point where I went, Yep, I got to have this conversation. Had the conversation. And then we went into, again, different scenarios, different possibilities. And then altogether, board agreed, yep, this is the right thing. And so then there was the what you're trying to do is you have a what is it called the orderly shutdown, so you pay everyone what you owe them. So you don't wait until you've completely run out of money you pay in front what you owe them? Yeah. All the employees settle no one else other than investors. And us as investors and co founders were impacted, you know, everyone else that needed to get paid or on all the team they got looked after, and that's doing the things at the right time, right. So you're not completely run out of money, and then leaving enough money in the bank to do the orderly shutdown from the tax perspective, and legals and everything. So that, you know, it didn't affect

integrity. Yeah.

i Yes. i You know, and, you know, I struggle, I struggle with saying that. Yes, absolutely. Because, you know, my point was, there was a little element of truth that are still holding back. And my lesson now is speak up early, have the fight early, the transparency will always save you, right. And so yeah. We can always, you know, integrity again, it's contextual. And

yeah. You mentioned you were disappointed in yourself. Was that the element you were disappointed is because you should have acted sooner? Or was it? In the mobile app? Yeah. You told me what? To be more.

So absolutely, absolutely. I've lost my own authenticity. Because authenticity for me in the way I describe it is, what you're thinking and feeling on the inside is what you're saying and portraying on the outside at that point in time. And people change. So people say, I'll be authentic, be you I mean, what the hell is that, and happy to go deeper on that with you. But back to that authenticity point, all along those things that I knew in my gut that I was not comfortable with. But I kept giving less value to my values, and more value to the world? Maybe I don't know, maybe this is the way to play the game. Maybe these other people know better than me, right? Rather than going no, no, no, no, like, now, it's either going to happen this way, or it's not going to happen. Not with me anyway. And it doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. It means on right for me. And that's where I've got real super clarity on in the way I've sort of approached it from that point on. So yeah, so I should have walked away earlier, or spoken up earlier, but not let it get to where it got to. And that's where

I got a sense of frustration, or maybe even deeper anger around, you mentioned that that promise to your family. Now. I'm gonna guess here that you mentioned that, you know, your immigrant family. That's not a big part of your story, but it is a significant part. I imagine that community plays a big part of that fee for your family from what we have talked about. So was the that the the frustration around that promise to family? Was it the bigger promise, like immediate family? Yes. But isn't that bigger, you know, like, there's a certain pride and probably internal competition, but also like it's honoring the name of our family and

so no internal competition as such, in terms of I'm the eldest of three so so my brothers continue to you know, both done really well for themselves very successful, but they continue to respect me and will go up to me and to this day, they come to Me for guidance, advice, whatever. So there's no there was no rivalry like that. But that especially for let's say, the parents and the in laws in the, in the broader community will, you know, you know, we came to this country for for the betterment of the Kids and, you know, should should has taken an alternative path because I didn't do the traditional, just go to uni, just do it. And I did uni part time, but I failed, I got thrown out, I went back in, because I was always more interested in entrepreneurial things and things that I felt like you're going to be different and make an impact rather than following everyone's normal footsteps. So, you know, to be able to say, Okay, we did something and then and then we succeeded would have been good from that. Yeah, you know, the parents really, you know, proud. And, you know, because you have this dependency, right. But you grew up sort of wanting to plead, right. And so that's hard coded that that was built in so and then there's the Ben being proud, but then also knowing them going, worrying too much. Oh, my God, what's gonna happen? See, you've lost, you know, the business and what's gonna happen with us? Like, nothing's gonna happen, everything's fine. We will get on with it. Things a month things always remember it's always said that. So it's it was those kinds of things where you know, that that was, yes, of course, plays on your mind at the time, and you care about it.

Yeah, I get a really strong sense that you're, you're so certain within yourself around these things. But it's that deep care for the most important people in your world that actually gives you the most, most of the challenges around

that. It used to, but it doesn't anymore. A good. So one of the things that I've sort of learned and help pass on is, you can literally only take care of yourself, you can't take care of anyone else. And all of their worries is not me. It's actually their own situations, insecurities, shortcomings, fears, that they're now using my story as a reason to, you know, get hooked on the pain, get hooked on the sadness, get hooked on the, the, you know, whatever it is that you know, that they have to do worrying. So, yes, I used to think like, it's my responsibility, whatever. And that's why at the time, but now not that, I don't care, I care enough to know that the sooner I make this your responsibility, whether you're my child, you're my parent, you're my spouse, you're my employee, you're my business partner, you're my customer. This is not me walking away from the things that I'm responsible for. But how you feel and how you think it's absolutely your responsibility, right? And how you interpret situations. Absolutely your responsibility. So yes, I used to sort of take it on and think it was, what I was responsible, I'm not responsible, I'm not responsible for how they interpret things, especially when it's me not doing anything directly towards them to affect them insulting and humiliating or anything, it's me living my life having a crack, you know, on something that's positive. And that's all worked out. Okay. You know, try something else. Try something else.

Love it. You mentioned before authenticity. So what did you learn through that process about being authentic? And what was the lesson that he gave you?

So self awareness, you try to keep peeling the layers off the onion, right and go, This is who I am, this is what really drives me, this is what I really care about. And yes, I'm very flexible and accommodating. But these things on all these things matter to me, there's certain things that matter to you, right? Whatever they are, and I and so back to the authenticity is that you want to make sure that you're in alignment with your own beliefs and your character at that point in time and thing people change scenarios change, but whatever scenario you're in, you want to make sure that you are in alignment with that. So you know, there's an alignment check all the time that sort of now happens that I say, am I am I aligned to my bigger purpose in my life, my character, my align to the things that I am calling values at the moment? And is there and then in terms of lessons taken away? I already spoke about the have the fight early, but then talking about kind of build values led and deliberate culture, rather than letting it happen accidentally. And making sure you double down on that, rather than saying, Well, yeah, everyone knows that cultural there is culture in the business or whatever. And I took those lessons and in my next venture, which was my comeback story, can texty I was so disciplined and focused about it. So we used it was a big data company. And we used to go, you know, we ended up working with Channel Seven during the real Olympic Games Caltex SAI Global Woolworths big brands 100 plus big enterprise customers which, and I built that into a good multimillion dollar addiction annuity business before getting acquired and but in that when we used to go and pick big data analytics AI, and we would never start talking about either those customers that we already had, or those capabilities we had, we always used to start with here are the company values we want to share with you in a customer page or in a classroom page. And we want to start with that. And every one of my team members, irrespective of their role, was able to start with that and articulate that and follow that through in the deck. So I codified that in the company culture. And I was very also clear if this doesn't work for each, okay, you don't have to be here, I hope you find another role. But if we're here, here are the values that we want to abide by. And that was me taking what I thought I'd done in a weak way in the lock, previous failed venture and codifying in a harder way in the new venture. So that was, that was one thing, and then also being able to differentiate between false positives and real positives. Because you know, when you're a positive, optimistic person like me, yes, everything you might say, looks positive and great. And there's goodness in everything. But it's okay to say, Yeah, that's good. But for what we did, it actually won't move the needle in terms of a person's capability, or you're a lovely person, you're very capable, but you're not there where we need you now, or this customer behavior, or this prospect behavior is nice, but it still doesn't prove to me that product market fit, which is where most companies will fail, right? They never learned that product market fit is this semi success. And that's that's semi success that kills businesses. It's not the failure, it's the semi success that makes you go, yeah, I'm not going to kill it and try something else. I'll just keep hoping that next month, next week, next six months, next year, it will improve, right? And so yeah, a whole bunch of lessons that came away from that.

And one of the things I've picked up on your language is you've said, This is my belief, this is how I'm talking about it at this moment. So from the lessons you've learned, it sounds like you've got a real sense of how everything's continually changing and evolving, and you need to be able to move with it, whether it's industries, whether it's the business or just your own personal journey. So tell us a little bit about how you've become this ability to be so agile, yes, from a business perspective, but But personally, and how would you help? Well, how do you help other people to have that same ability.

So there's a couple of things there. One is, I always thought everything with I own 100% of whatever's happened, I own it. So whatever. Because it's empowering to own a situation rather than being the victim, or this happened to me. Okay, so that I was word for God. And again, like, there are some things that all I was always pre conditioned for, like, I was the guy that the age of 1617 was reading Tony Robbins books. And, you know, at the age of 19, I convinced them to give me 700 bucks to go to the, unleash the fire, Unleash the Power Within and walk on the fire. And to this day says, you know, I'll cook you an Armenian barbecue in the backyard, you can walk on that fire while 700 bucks and pay someone to walk on someone else's fire. Right? So, about that. So, yes, I've always been, you know, precondition, if you like, what I've liked the concept have always been positive. But there's there's depths to that, where it's like, no, no, no, I'm gonna own it. And there's difference to just going, you know, something happened to me, I will someone else's fault, but I'm okay versus no, no, no, no, no, I'm 100% responsible for my life, whatever has happened. It's me. So that's the first thing. Secondly, it's it was an experience that I had, it is not me. So while I, on the one hand, I've taken responsibility. On the other hand, it's an experience that I've had, that's just part of my journey, and I'm proud to wear the battle scar now, that's okay. So that doesn't define who I am. And in both my coaching and you know, I've done some sort of courses that I've created to sort of break this down to try to help others understand that I talk about the concept of being you. And I say, what's, you know, you know, being you is, I'm doing a play on words, because my argument is, there is your being, which is your soul, and you're born with that from the second you're born, you know, you know, you know, when you think back, you guys still feel like the child that I was, that's your soul. This is my interpretation. Who knows if I'm right or wrong, but this is the way I define Um, the universe at the moment, that's the beam and that is non changing that static, right? So, you know, and that's going to be with you forever, but the you when we say, be you or what does that mean? Because I'm not the same guy from, you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, I'm not the same guy from 10 days ago, you and I are not going to be the same people after this conversation. Yeah, for a number of reasons, you know, this conversation will have sparked ideas and change in both of us. Right now, while we've shut down everything else, and we're not listening to the outside world, maybe there's a world event happening that's going to change the trajectory of us and life and so on. So the EU is constantly changing, and you realize the EU is constantly changing. And so when you realize the EU is constantly changing? Well, what if you're mindful and deliberate about the next version of the EU that you're creating? Right? And how about, you know, and what does it take for that view to move towards more towards it's extraordinary, you're extraordinary, not an extraordinary, because who knows what an extraordinary is, but there certainly is a version of me, that's an extraordinary version, where I've got flow, and I'm in my zone of genius and all that good stuff. And there is there are many versions that I'm not that. So what do I do with those things? So So yeah, firstly, I'm gonna Secondly, recognize that it's an experience, and it's not the EU, and you still have an option on who the EU is. And then you can move into doing some design of the year. And so when I made reference to at that point in time, and things evolving, you know, one of the things that I work both again, with my team, or when I do talk to whatever, I'm trying to explain this concept of what creates impact, because we all want to say, Oh, the work I do is impactful. Okay, well, what is impact? And how do you how do you think about impact? Because, you know, usually people often think it's just a function that they do, you know, I code I sell I market, I create art, okay? But my definition is to create real impact where you've moved the needle, it's

people, Centricity plus context, or multiplied by context, awareness, multiplied by the function that you do creates impact. So understanding people, and what drives you know, people because people are constantly evolving. And so are you as the person doing the work context, because as I said, right now, there could be a world event, you know, interest rates go up, interest rates come down wars happen, markets change. So what is the context in which this work that you're going to do, right? So it's people that you're working with the context in which you're doing it, and then the function and here's the thing, people are constantly evolving, and constant context is always changing. So it's constant work, and it's constant awareness that this is how you become adaptable to correct the impact. Anyway,

I've gone Oh, no, no, that's good. And I love Hey, it's all about your systemized, like, even that side of things, the learning from yourself and how you be able to pass it on to other people. I'm endlessly curious about people's sources of motivation. So what drives a 16 year old to want to go and see Tony Robbins? Like what what were you experiencing then as a teenager? That had you looking for something more? Like, were you going through challenging moments at school? Like, was it with friends? Was it family, like what was sort of going on that led you down that path?

So when I landed in Australia, I was four and a half, I was called Sydney. And you can imagine, you can't speak English, you start kindergarten, you named Sydney, you're the target of a fair bit of bullying and so on. So my story is in that way, started with bullied and then I was also doing martial arts at the time, you know, as a six year old doing karate lessons. So I would stand up for myself and you know, be not not worried about kicking someone in the shins or punching them in the gut if I didn't know they were bullying me, right. And at one stage, I recall having this moment where I was when I'm the most hated kid in all of you one or kindergarten, whenever it was right age, I had this I had this awareness that every you know, like, everyone icon, the everyone, everyone's like, no one's getting on with me. So and then that I felt like there was a decision point at that time and it's so crazy. I think back at that age, how did I have this awareness but no, I had These words were, I mean, this can't continue like this, like I have to take, I have to take control of this. And I probably articulated better now right at having thought about it. But I went from that point to when I was in New six, I was selected school vice captain by my peers. And then heading into year seven, went to a school where there was a lot of school pride. And you know, we were the first cohort as the seventh is that the peer support programs kicked in. So I distinctly remember that came in said right out of the seven cohort, you know, how many kids there were 300 kids who wants to do a presentation to the at the school assembly about their experience with peer support, and of course, firsthand that shooter is me. And then from then on, I did become a peaceful leader, I was in the debating team, I did the Duke of Edinburgh Award got my gold all the way through. I was in the school, you know, different Council, steering committee, school prefect. So back to the story of how do I land on Tony Robbins, I always had this thing that I'm going to be a leader. And I liked the concept of helping others. I like the concept of coaching leading, you know, and when I saw that you had a certain language and a mindset and this, you know, great way of talking about things. I was like, Yeah, I can I can buy into that. Now. I've not mellowed, I've balanced out some of that great American rah rah that I've learned from him and others, as well as over time, really interested in Mooji and Sadhguru, and some of the Eastern philosophy about life and wisdom and balance and all of that. And then I'm trying to create my universe, whether it's, firstly, for me, then it's the people who I have the privilege of serving, whether it's my kids, my wife, my company, my, you know, the people that I coach, and so, back to your question, and it had an island that it was never like, I'm struggling on this. But it was exactly the opposite. I saw something that I was like, Wow, imagine standing up and being able to influence 10,000 People in the library now. That's awesome. So it was it was all of that.

Fantastic. And you might say, at that age is like no, it was at the opposite. It was it from a good place. But you had to go through those early struggles to get to that point of like, stepping into that leadership space in and across those those shorts, or that loop transformational moment in your life and in kindergarten age one. Massive.

That's right. Yes. Yeah. And it's only when you look back the you know, it all makes sense. Or you can you know, as Steve Jobs would say, right, when you look back, you can you can connect the dots and the dots. So yeah, join the dots. So, it made more sense to me later on. When I thought about at the time, I was just, I guess maybe listening to my gut, listening to my wisdom, listening to the extraordinary version of me at the time that was navigating me guiding me right. And trusted that I went with it, rather than followed someone else's advice on something.

Love it. You. You mentioned there, like the Steve Jobs speech, he was Stanford address, one of the things he talks about is like, you can't join the dots leaking, or you can only join the dots looking back. So looking forward, you have to put faith in something, whether it's what does he say the car, karma, Life, the Universe, whatever it is, you have to put faith in something. And you describe how that's kind of how you sell things to your mom. Right? Everything will work out. So how do you what's Tell me about your faith? And then how you able to really promote that for other people to have that faith and then trust in the faith?

Yep. Yeah. So and I'm glad using the word faith and the universe, I think so, you know, ethnically Armenian, you know, we're the first Christians Of The World and such a big part of our identity and whatever. But over the years, I'm, I can clearly tell I'm not religious at all. But I have a massive amount of faith that this stuff that we still don't understand about the universe, there is something sort of not magical in the sense that it's, you know, I'm going to sit there close my eyes and I'm going to grow taller, all of a sudden is gonna grow on the top of my head, which I've lost or, or I'm gonna make money, not magical like that. But in terms of that there is this source power in the universe that we still haven't learned how to tap. So I absolutely believe in that and believe that we've all got real capabilities, real wisdom, real insights, and we So let's learn how to harness that. So I'm trying every day to understand me better and be able to tap into what I know. But it's interesting because with my kids, for example, I keep saying to them as, as they've grown up that you know, your superhero, the person that you look up to the person that you believe in, you know, I don't, I don't sort of talk to them about religion. But I don't even make this refer to God or anything like that actually say to them, the person that you should really look up to, is the extraordinary version of you. Love it. Right. And, and not your dad or your mom, not, you know, Batman, but the best version of Dylan, Jaden Talia, like they are the people that's gonna guide give you the best answers in life. And but you got to work at it, you got to nurture them, you got to put the right inputs in there. So if you're not doing the right things, by your mental well, being physical well being spiritual well being, you're not you're extraordinary, and you will get the wrong result. And, and I'm still okay with that. Because if life kicks your ass, I'm happy for you. That's what you need to adjust and grow in life. So that's also okay. I'm not going to be that worrisome type parent. But, yeah, so my back to the broader faith. Yeah, absolutely believe that. were looked after. I believe there's abundance. I believe there's goodness out there. I also believe things happen for a reason that sometimes we just don't understand right now. That doesn't stop me from taking a swing. So I won't sit back and go, Well, if it's meant to happen will happen because I'm sitting down. No, I'll absolutely go for it. But in the mind, you know, there's a lot of manifestation that you can also do that positions you and everything else. And then he goes is Voodoo is is magic is this rubbish. People can call on what they want. It's their choice. But yeah, I feel like more and more, I'm living my authentic self and the life that I deserve, because I've designed it and gone after. So that's the that's the craziness I currently believe in. So

I love it. It's amazing, whether you call it religious, spiritual trust in the universe, whatever, the principles are still the same, right? And we can apply them. And I like Dr. Joe Dispenza. It looks at it from a scientific perspective, it's the same thing. But he says it's part of why we bring in like billions of bits per second. But there's a part of our brain that actually can process it. And it can only process in the 10s of 1000s. So just give that part of your brain, something to focus on. Knowing having faith that that part of your brain will find the solutions to whatever clear parameters you've given it. Go ahead and let it do it. But you have to have that clarity right on the vision. So

already without the unclutter of what if it doesn't work? What will What about the failures? What Oh, is this real? Am I deserving, blah, blah, blah, blah, all this rubbish that we've, you know, or people have told me this is not possible, right? Yeah. If and, again, like, it's, it's takes a bit of articulation to articulate between when someone's being delusional to when, you know, they're going after something in an aligned way, with complete belief that it will work out. And when I say aligned ways, because, you know, if you don't have alignment in it, because I can see it and go, Yeah, I want to, you know, be a triathlete. You know, I want to do the Ironman. Okay? But I don't I'm not exercising. I'm not. I'm eating burgers and beers every night. That's not going to get me there clearly. So there's misalignments I can speak positively and believe that so there's delusion in that right. So we have to differentiate that because I think sometimes these conversations get misinterpreted. And you see this little clip on, you know, tick tock or something you go, you know, everyone said, just think positive, and everything will work out. Well, it's not quite that it start with clarity of thought and cleanliness, hygiene of thought. But then, you know, massive action, alignment, testing, revising, and going out again,

yeah, spot on. Abraham Hicks calls it the resistance by the state of allowing or resistance. And I like the analogy that the metaphor that they use is the, you have this engine pulling in one direction of what you want that engine of desire, you're the carriage, but then what you do is that you bring in their resistance, which is another engine pulling in the opposite direction. So you create more desire, and you put more power on what you want, and then you create more resistance. So how do you help people to see that they can let go of that risk resistance? Because you said that the phrase to your mom everything will work out? Now that's easy for someone like you who's got that faith and that you have that ability just to go Yeah, well, let's go into work out but What how would you like, if you like you've put your coaching hat on for a minute? How do you then help people to let go of that resistance to clear their mind of all that clutter, which we all face at different times so that they can be in that state of allowing things to unfold?

Yep. So firstly, my wife, Rita will love the fact you brought up Abraham Hicks, because she's a huge fan. So awesome. Getting rid of the clutter. So we spoke about the concept of the extraordinary version of you, right? And the way I sort of help people see this through, think about it, as I say, Well, we've already spoken about the benefits of the extraordinary version of you. The question is, why aren't we there, like, what's stopping us and I've talked about this three blocks that stop us from getting there, the mirror, the whistle, and the compass. So and then hopefully, these little, you know, triggers remind people to catch themselves when this is happening. So the mirror is all of our self talk. And it's running, there's a dialogue that's running every day, from the minute you wake up, it starts running about your identity, who you are, who you're not what you're capable of what you're not. And it could be everything that you know, so for me, it could be our I came to this country as an immigrant, I was teased as a kid, I was a bad asthmatic, you know, I got thrown out of uni, shamed the family lost their house lost the business lost investment, I could, I could make that my constant story. Or I could decide as that daily thing. Yeah, I was the kid that was teased for my name. And I figured out at that age, how to turn around and end up being school vice captain, by the end of year six, I wasn't as symmetric but I actually participated in every sport on code, including basketball, and I'm a short us basketball team captain, because I can talk about and coordinate. So I can have that narrative running, I did successfully raise a ton of money that others are struggling to do, I did successfully hire some amazing people in the US that people would kill to have hired, right I did. And then I did have a comeback story. And I've got a wonderful family. And I've been, I could have that story running. But that mirror is firstly, everyday, people have to see what story is running in their brain, and it's self created. So it takes work, you have to be mindful and deliberate about that story. So sit down, write the story that you want to remind yourself daily, right, and read that morning and read that on in the evenings. Until that becomes the standard story that is on auto pilot. The second block, the whistle is outside noise, right other people's thoughts and opinions about you your life, how you should be doing things and for some crazy reason, we treat it as authority, like we give it so much importance. And usually the problem is it starts with home with your parents, your parents having an opinion about what you should do as a career and who you should marry and what religion you should believe in and and then speaking of religion, it's your whatever religion you believe in, whether you go to church, or a mosque, or whatever it is, what they're putting onto you as the way you should live your life. And then, you know, if you're part of the educational ecosystem, university saying this is what your is worthy of a PhD or some title, all the way to today, Tiktok into the ground where we're constantly judging ourselves by other people's thoughts, standards and objectives. And then we're wondering why we feel shit. And so that's the second block stopping us from getting to the extraordinary. So again, what do you need to do, you need to catch yourself, if there's stuff that's the whistle, if it's an old conversation with your dad, with your mom with your, you know, a significant other that is just not adding value to your life, learn to recognize it and then learn to lovingly just ignore it. And so there's no point in creating hate or animosity, it's simply like, oh, you know what, it's okay. You don't know me, and you don't know the best, what's best for me. And then finally, the compass is the misalignment to your true north. So what you're thinking and feeling on the inside, you're not portraying and pursuing on the outside? And what and how does that play out in real life? Well, you've probably God got a job that's well paying, but at a company that's eating, you're killing your soul, right? But you've mortgage because you took it because of the whistle and the mirror, you had to have the house and the second car and the holidays and the clothes and shoes that you really can't afford or don't really need because that's not really you know, you've just decided that needs to be part of your identity. It's actually nothing other than ego and societal expectation, but you're now stuck in a rut. You have to do that job because there's mortgage payments to make and so misalignment not doing work not doing the the not having the conversations you need to not having the job that you need shouldn't be having That's the compass. So back to helping people being able to believe that things are worked out and everything's gonna work out, you got to address these three things mirror, whistle compass, and

it's constant. And you know, mostly whatever people throw at me, I can fit into one of these three categories. And that's a compass problem, that's a mirror problem, or that's always a problem. And let's see how you can create an antidote to that.

So you've got your own built in self reflection device to have that awareness and then to be able to change on their own. Yep. Yeah, fantastic.

Usually, after people hear me give that example, they sometimes people drop me a note said, I caught out a whistle situation, there was a conversation with my boss, or my parent, often, it's parents that have left a lot of scars on the kids without realizing it, right. thinking they're doing good. And there's so again, you know, of course, Mike, you know, every next generation has to screw up their kids less. And so my people probably want to find things that I'm doing that are not right. But I've really tried to be mindful and deliberate about being the coach and being a leader. So there's difference about saying, I'm not just you mate, like, do whatever. And, you know, you know, no, I'm I, with my wife, we're leaders of the House, we set the values and frameworks, just like you do in the company. But really, I want to be a consultant and a coach and give them space to fail. Yes, without trying to push my beliefs my ways, like when we talk about truth, and I will talk about Abraham Hicks, and the kids will roll their eyes, and it's okay, they're not ready for that they won't understand. Maybe they never will. Maybe we're delusional, it's okay, that's not my point to prove anything. So it's that giving that space where it's very different to the way we grew up, right here was your religion is the culture here is whatever. And yeah, it has benefits, and it has downsides. So it's,

you nailed it, the the giving them space and letting them make the choice and the rolling of the eyes, like five times a day. But on the other hand, like when they choose to adopt something that they witnessed you doing, like, that gives so much pride, because you're like, I didn't have to control them into doing that they've made a choice. Because they feel like, however, I'm being there actually think they can get benefit from that. So.

And that's when we value that way more than you were being compliant because of my ego needs. And there's massive difference, right? So there was a call rather than a push, which is the same thing around leadership, which is the same thing around sales, like you want to pull you want customers to be attracted to you rather than you we've forced that we had a tactic. We had a close we had a winning alone, you know, people are over

that. Yeah, 100%, you want them to select and make the choice not be manipulated into something they're going to resent later anyway. Spot on. Now, we haven't even got assassin yet. So now that we've had the conversation, it seems like a really a great lead in seeing how you described some of your upbringing. Tell us a little bit about sassy and why you're so passionate about it, and why you're so in alignment with this brand.

Yeah. So Sassanians, a online student safety company, we have an AI powered Software as a Service SaaS solution that we deploy into schools, specifically in K to 12, kindergarten through two years tall. And really, the mission of the company is to enable schools to ensure the online safety of the kids of the students. And as you know, using technology is part of the way we now learn. It's part of the way we now socialize, it's part of the way we play. And it's a very important part. But of course, along with, like everything else in the world, there's lots of harm that can happen there. And it is another in a way, it's almost like another playground, right? And so that duty of care that we have in the schoolyard to make sure that a kid's not running towards another kid with a stick, I'm going to poke them in the eye and make them go blind. Well, the internet has these kinds of things that we have to you know as society let alone as a school and or as a parent, or as a government as spider we have to be responsible for so assassins mission is to use cutting edge AI cloud technology to give enable the schools to look after the well being of their students. So our product sits in the schools and helps to identify and alert and intervene against cyberbullying, self harm, suicide, threats of violence. And more recently, in the last couple of months, we've also announced integrations where we're also helping to identify image based abuse, which is also known as revenge porn. And, in fact, in the last week, we also announced a online grooming alert. So being able to understand if there's an adult trying to groom a kid, you know, get them to keep a secret, send a photo, keep, you know, not say something to a parent or pressuring them to, you know, search up things that are sexual in nature or, or whatever. So, Sasson was one of the companies that I'd been coaching for a while. And, you know, the founder, and Greg, Mark Ossian, who's now my business partner, fantastic guy, really committed to building great world class product. And also something that's so mission driven, right. So it's very easy to get behind a business like this. So the opportunity came up for me to step into a CEO role to help push this further, both across Australia, and we're now expanding into overseas markets. Today, we've got 400,000 students, 660 schools around Australia, we've got a few schools now signing up from New Zealand, and we've started running some trials in the US market. Awesome, Henry got a good mix of government, non government schools, including, we've got all of South Australia public sector done a deal at the state level. And so that's a six year deal that, you know, and we'll probably renew that, you know, we've done so far, so wouldn't have got really great support by the leadership for the Department of Education there and so on. And we can see other states that will be coming on board and, and so on. So fantastic mission, great product product works, we've got really great customer base, you know, these are and they all care they all really care about who we're dealing with teachers will be in counselors and the school it folk that we work with will clearly there it folk not at a time bank, but there are there it people at a school, so they they care, and it's wonderful to be able to

awesome, and I can hear the passion coming through in your voice. Is that part of the alignment? Is it that that's the care factor?

Absolutely. So when you say back to the alignment of what kind of businesses I want to be involved in, who do I want to work with daily, what kind of mission you know. And so and it's constantly, you know, and so the opportunity arises, and we might so my last company, before this context, the where, you know, I said, you know, CHANNEL SEVEN Caltex, by law, if you think about it, we were using the same technology stack, big data, cloud AI, and mostly would put all of it was based around ads helping these companies do more targeted personalized ads to tell sell stuff to people that they don't need. So you take that so it's not like on perfect level always be like, but it's this constant improvement in your life, right? We go Yeah, like this talks to me more where, yes, we're using I love technology, I love innovation, I love, you know, cutting edge stuff, but actually, we're using it for good. We're using AI for ethical reasons, we're using big data in a safe way. Because you know, that school holds the data into the data that's already the schools. So we're not, you know, passing it around or selling it or anything crazy like that. Not that we were protected. But we hear all these bad stories, right on what people are doing with data. So yeah, absolutely. It's this constantly moving closer to your truth. And so absolutely, when this ASEAN opportunity came up, and I've been working with the founder for but roughly four years as I've been coaching him, so it just made a lot of sense rather like like yet with my go to market skills, we can create a lot more brand awareness, noise and build the kind of culture that's worthy of this mission. And so let's do that. So William been on for another 18 months.

And again, I can just see that it's such a great fit because of how much you line up when you talk about it with such D as well. So it's, it's great to hear. Tell me, you've talked about this throughout whether you've referred to it as flow or zone of genius or superpower. What's your superpower said?

What's my superpower? Yeah. Think I'm highly empathetic. So So and I think that's different to an empath being you know, someone who takes on other people's pain. It's not that I won't sit there and dwell in people's pain but being empathetic means I'm quick to you know, and maybe this is because of the journey that I've been through maybe this is because of the you know, cultural diversity that I've got, so speak multiple languages outside of English and and And so you start getting a sense of people come from different perspectives, right? And so that, you know, my superpower that empathy of going, Yeah, you're trying to say this, you're trying to say that you're missing each other. I'm a good glue in between too often, I've described myself as the glue between people technology and change, because I've been in technology, innovation and entrepreneurship for many years. But I can't put two lines of code together. I'm not a technologist. I'm a people person. So if you say, what's my superpower, it's people. I really believe I've, you know, I and in, the more I say it, the more I have to become better at it. Right? So it's one of those fulfilling prophecies. And that's why I care to think about how do I help others understand what I understand around what creates impact and context and people and your mirror, whistle, compass and all those things. And that's why I've gone down a path of creating content and language and frameworks, because I was like, It's no good, me just saying, I'm good with people, and it's instinctive. How do I deconstruct that so that I can teach it to my kids? How do I teach it to my seven year old immigrant parents? And we're both still working, God bless them, right? And have to navigate society and politics, you know, in the way they what they do? Yeah, so I'd say my superpower is people and empathy.

Love it. Great answer. Where can people find you said, if they want to know more about sassy and or they're looking for great business coach? CEOs and founders? Right? Where can people find you?

Sure. So Sasha, and you can find us of course@sassanian.com. So it s double A s yan.com. And with me, look me up on LinkedIn, hit me up on LinkedIn. So it's, you know, you can see the spelling of my name on this. Sydney Minassian. And, yeah, I love to connect with anyone, because I'm about people. So yeah, if there's any way I can be of value or assistance, happy to.

Awesome. Well, you've been massive value and assistance on this chat today said passing on all your wisdom, and everything you've been able to overcome and how you've been able to do so. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Thanks for having me, and good job with what you're doing with the Grief Code and the podcast. And I think you're also serving a massive need in the market. So good job and keep going.

Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Jeff.

I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief. Let's chat. Email me at info at Ian Hawkins coaching.com You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform