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In today's episode, we delve into the art of financial communication with our esteemed guest, Mr. Murat Wahab. As a well-traveled and multilingual business leader, Mr. Wahab brings extensive experience in financial services in the U.S. and hospitality management both domestically and abroad. Join us as we explore the necessity of understanding and effectively utilizing financial language, the impact of cross-cultural nuances in international finance, and the transformative role of storytelling in making financial pitches engaging and compelling.
1. *Understanding and Using Financial Language Effectively:* We discuss the importance of fluency in financial language and how it enhances communication within the financial sector. Mr. Wahab shares insights into the nuances of terminology and how mastery of financial language can lead to clearer and more effective communication in various financial contexts.
2. *Cross-Cultural Nuances in International Finance:* Mr. Wahab sheds light on the complexities of navigating cross-cultural nuances in the world of international finance. From differences in business customs to varying approaches to negotiation, understanding cultural sensitivities is crucial for success in global finance.
3. *The Role of Storytelling in Financial Communication:* We explore the power of storytelling in capturing attention and making financial pitches memorable. Mr. Wahab shares anecdotes and examples of how weaving narratives into financial presentations can engage audiences, build rapport, and drive impactful decision-making.
Join us for a captivating discussion on mastering the art of financial communication and gain valuable insights into navigating the dynamic landscape of global finance. Stay tuned for more episodes of Speak in Flow, where we uncover the secrets to effective communication in today's interconnected world.
Guest Profile
Murat Wahab is a seasoned business leader with a diverse background spanning financial services and hospitality management. With his extensive experience both in the U.S. and abroad, Mr. Wahab brings a unique perspective to the intersection of finance, culture, and communication.
Murat Wahab is a highly accomplished business leader with over two decades of experience in Commercial-Middle-Market, Business Banking, Retail Banking, Hospitality Management, and Sales. He has built a vast network of connections with Private Financial Institutions, Private Family Offices, Private Equity Firms, Private Lenders, Banks, Venture Capitalists, Entrepreneurs, and Funders. Mr. Wahab's firm is named after his late nephew Hakim, a remarkable young man whose life was cut short in an automobile accident at just 16 years old. He aims to honor Hakim's memory by bringing successful people together to maximize their opportunities and success.
Throughout his career, Mr. Wahab has held several positions at top-tier financial institutions such as Wells Fargo Bank, City National Bank (an RBC Company), JPMorgan Chase & Co, and East West Bank. He was responsible for managing over 300 mid-size companies' accounts, receiving numerous awards for productivity, sales, and customer satisfaction.
Currently, Mr. Wahab serves on the Global Chamber San Francisco Advisory Board and is a Strategic Advisor at LiVeritas Biosciences. He has also volunteered and served on the boards of various not-for-profit organizations, such as Upwardly Global, Asian Business League of San Francisco, and Enterprise of Youth, among others. He is an accomplished fundraiser and event planner who volunteers his time to support youth development and help immigrants reach their full potential.
Mr. Wahab is an alumnus of Golden Gate University (GGU), where he earned both his Bachelor's degree and MBA. He was awarded the highest honor that the undergraduate faculty can bestow upon a student, the Student Success Award recipient, and was on the Dean's List as a graduate student. Additionally, he holds a Hotel and Catering Management Diploma from OUW Malaysia KDU College and a Global Marketing certificate from Riverside University of California.
Fluent in Malay, English, and Indonesian, Mr. Wahab is a well-traveled and multilingual business leader with extensive experience in financial services in the U.S. and hospitality management experience in the U.S. and abroad.
LI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hakim-saya/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/HakimSayaLLC
LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/murat-wahab-mba-53908510/
About Melinda:
Melinda Lee is a Presentation Skills Expert, Speaking Coach and nationally renowned Motivational Speaker. She holds an M.A. in Organizational Psychology, is an Insights Practitioner, and is a Certified Professional in Talent Development as well as Certified in Conflict Resolution. For over a decade, Melinda has researched and studied the state of “flow” and used it as a proven technique to help corporate leaders and business owners amplify their voices, access flow, and present their mission in a more powerful way to achieve results.
She has been the TEDx Berkeley Speaker Coach and worked with hundreds of executives and teams from Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Caltrans, Bay Area Rapid Transit System, and more. Currently, she lives in San Francisco, California, and is breaking the ancestral lineage of silence.
Website: https://speakinflow.com/
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/speakinflow
Instagram: https://instagram.com/speakinflow
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpowerall
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Welcome, dear listeners, I'm so glad you're
Melinda Lee:here today I have the honour of introducing an amazing guests,
Melinda Lee:Murat Wahab He is the founder and principal of Hakeem Saya,
Melinda Lee:your global funding partner. He has had over 20 years of
Melinda Lee:experience in banking, entrepreneurship, Small Business
Melinda Lee:Startup advisory. He's has he provides access to capital to
Melinda Lee:domestic and international companies. So he has so much
Melinda Lee:wealth of information when it comes to mastering the art of
Melinda Lee:financial communication. And I think this is such an important
Melinda Lee:topic, I love to just dive right in, and just say hi, Maura,
Melinda Lee:thanks for being here.
Murat Wahab:Oh, hi, Melinda. I just want to first before we get
Murat Wahab:started, I just wanted to say thank you so much for inviting
Murat Wahab:me. It is an honour and privilege to be here and be part
Murat Wahab:of your journey, and for your own podcasts to speak about the
Murat Wahab:topics that are dear to my heart, which is that about
Murat Wahab:related to banking and finance and also related to
Murat Wahab:communication. So the themes for today that you know, that I was
Murat Wahab:thinking when you asked me about what are the themes that I want
Murat Wahab:to talk about is mastering the art of financial communication,
Murat Wahab:and navigating financing language, cross cultural nuances
Murat Wahab:in the power of storytelling, which is quite a mouthful, but I
Murat Wahab:think your audience will be appreciative can learn one or
Murat Wahab:two, hopefully. And by the end when we finish this
Murat Wahab:conversation,
Melinda Lee:I agree, I know that they're going to love this,
Melinda Lee:I'm going to learn I can't wait to dive in. So tell me, what is
Melinda Lee:it? Why is it important? Why is it so important that we learn
Melinda Lee:how to do this,
Murat Wahab:um, let me just let you know, I've been in banking
Murat Wahab:for over Wow, me officially 14 years. And then prior to that I
Murat Wahab:was in the hospitality industry for over 13 years here in
Murat Wahab:abroad, and then also working in a nonprofit organisation, things
Murat Wahab:like that. And with the capacity as a founder and principal of
Murat Wahab:hacking Saya, which is your global funding partner. These
Murat Wahab:particular themes are very important and relevant,
Murat Wahab:especially when intrapreneurs or individual, you know, working in
Murat Wahab:an international setting. So the theme itself is encapsulates the
Murat Wahab:importance of understanding and effectively using financial
Murat Wahab:jargon, like many industry have their own acronyms. You know,
Murat Wahab:financing back financial, in banking industry as well have a
Murat Wahab:lot of those. So acknowledging the challenges and opportunities
Murat Wahab:in doing business cross cultural settings, and emphasise the
Murat Wahab:compelling role of storytelling. In financial pitching, it's very
Murat Wahab:important, because this is a very comprehensive approach that
Murat Wahab:will highlight to me is that the significance of communication
Murat Wahab:skills in the world of the business finance, especially in
Murat Wahab:the context of international dealings, and also how you
Murat Wahab:persuade investors or lenders when you're trying to pitch. So
Murat Wahab:in this in today's I plan to clarify to cover a few key
Murat Wahab:points or pointers that maybe will help your audience and all
Murat Wahab:the listeners who listen to your podcast in three things, which
Murat Wahab:is one, the necessity of understanding and using
Murat Wahab:financial language effectively, or to the impact of cross
Murat Wahab:cultural nuances in international finance. And
Murat Wahab:number three, is the role of storytelling in banking,
Murat Wahab:financial pitches, engage very engaging and compelling that's
Murat Wahab:the kind of things that I want to talk about why the topics
Murat Wahab:these are a very important. Okay, and what is it to so what
Murat Wahab:is the nuance what is the important start off with there?
Murat Wahab:The first one absolute? That's a great question. So didn't know
Murat Wahab:ances is basically like, you know, for example, I have a
Murat Wahab:client that you know, as, as a, as a founder and principal of
Murat Wahab:Arkansas, helping my client, you know, my client come from around
Murat Wahab:the world, one particular client basically based in Africa, so
Murat Wahab:Africa, you know, just like around the world, people speak
Murat Wahab:English, but their English is not really necessarily that you
Murat Wahab:can understand, right? Even though that, you know, they
Murat Wahab:meant something that you think that you understand, but you
Murat Wahab:listening, but if you listen carefully, that's not what it
Murat Wahab:meant. So, this communications style that you know, for
Murat Wahab:different countries or clients that I work with, particularly
Murat Wahab:in Africa, because this is what it is sample that I'm giving. So
Murat Wahab:basically, that will, you know, it's critical when we're
Murat Wahab:borrower, for example, or the project owners that I dealt with
Murat Wahab:that the standard of communications and needs to, at
Murat Wahab:least, you know, be understood by both parties, right? This is
Murat Wahab:the challenge, because we just because you can speak English
Murat Wahab:doesn't mean that, culturally, that you can understand the
Murat Wahab:nuances. And sometimes a lot of those borrowers or individual
Murat Wahab:when they do business internationally, it just like
Murat Wahab:they don't understand the American way, and vice versa, so
Murat Wahab:that they don't understand the other quarter like Japanese, the
Murat Wahab:Chinese like, and let alone my clients in Africa. So these are,
Murat Wahab:this is a challenge, I'm going to go with very specific. One
Murat Wahab:example, when when actually working with my in African
Murat Wahab:client is that they communicate this way. Like they say that,
Murat Wahab:okay, I going to apply for X millions of dollars of loans to
Murat Wahab:these lenders, and then they say, an X, Y, and what year they
Murat Wahab:say, Okay, on the year one, I'm going to be profitable. So you
Murat Wahab:know, these are financial literacy, like, Okay, does it
Murat Wahab:make sense on the yo why, and then when you have documentation
Murat Wahab:that you provide it like business plan, that you provide
Murat Wahab:it to the lenders, it shows differently? Because those
Murat Wahab:facts, factual information is not corroborated with what you
Murat Wahab:said, and what you prove, because we based on facts and
Murat Wahab:figures. So the communication needs to be like embedded, and
Murat Wahab:it has to be clear when you communicate that with the
Murat Wahab:lender. So can they understand that. So I found that by truly
Murat Wahab:get to the point, and shows that figures and make sure that what
Murat Wahab:you provide in factual and figures is actually resonate to
Murat Wahab:what the documents you're providing, not just saying it.
Melinda Lee:So when you're working with your client, how
Melinda Lee:are you able to decipher and discern what is clear or what is
Melinda Lee:not? So he the persons that profitable? I mean, how have you
Melinda Lee:done that for so long that you start to make sure that you
Melinda Lee:clarify?
Murat Wahab:Yeah, so this is the beauty of it, because I've
Murat Wahab:been in banking and train in the UK commercial training, alright,
Murat Wahab:commercial credit trained, and then I have done so many
Murat Wahab:different actions and different aspects class. So it's come to
Murat Wahab:step into me, isn't nature right? For me? I don't expect
Murat Wahab:other people who doesn't have those background be able to dive
Murat Wahab:dissects or decipher immediately. So for me it is
Murat Wahab:that very easy that immediately that if somebody just say that
Murat Wahab:without even saying, I mean, without even actually seeing
Murat Wahab:those spreadsheets and whatnot, immediately, I can just gauge
Murat Wahab:and saying this is a goal. Is this a no go?
Murat Wahab:Because those is based on experience. And it's hard to
Murat Wahab:actually say, and of course that behind the scenes that when I
Murat Wahab:have the data, I have to do all the financial spreads and
Murat Wahab:understanding those data's and communicate to the borrowers.
Murat Wahab:And what does that mean? Right, right. So it's always good to
Murat Wahab:definitely when you there's something you're not sure of, to
Murat Wahab:repeat it, to say it in your own words to make sure the other
Murat Wahab:party agrees that yes, libre r&d talking about the same thing.
Murat Wahab:All right, cool. Yeah, yes. And it also very helpful basically
Murat Wahab:another way the challenge is also about using email. So
Murat Wahab:email, email is another thing which is that eats can be a
Murat Wahab:lifesaver but it also can be a big hinderance for a lot of the
Murat Wahab:borrowers email has a purpose you know, so when these purpose
Murat Wahab:that it is to communicate that clearly, however, not everybody
Murat Wahab:is a good underwriter but you know, not not not also they're
Murat Wahab:not a rap professional writers to make sure that the message
Murat Wahab:get across, and typically email I perceive is no soul. There's
Murat Wahab:no soul, you cannot see the body language like we speaking right
Murat Wahab:now and communicating. So, understand you can say, What do
Murat Wahab:you mean? Let me just ask that and let me pause. Can you expand
Murat Wahab:a little bit things like that in email is not often working with
Murat Wahab:my client and this is miscommunication. And the lender
Murat Wahab:misunderstood one thing they the borrower misunderstood another
Murat Wahab:thing. So this is because that the level of knowledge and the
Murat Wahab:level of experience is dependent on those borrowers that I work
Murat Wahab:with, because it doesn't mean that successful businessman they
Murat Wahab:know finance thatI mean that right? So they good what they
Murat Wahab:do. And similarly, and and I say that you an example of email
Murat Wahab:that my clients basically my tip is that when you send email,
Murat Wahab:because sometimes the language that you see the word you said
Murat Wahab:sometimes you're so used to the let's say the word adapt, what
Murat Wahab:does it mean? Adapt? So sometimes the lender was it
Murat Wahab:adapt? What What, what are you talking about? Right? And so
Murat Wahab:this is the things that I would highly recommend is pick up the
Murat Wahab:call, or arrange the Zoom call and speak to me or to the lender
Murat Wahab:directly. to iron out like the misunderstanding, because it's
Murat Wahab:so easy, especially when you're doing international, you know,
Murat Wahab:international setting, it's, it's very easy. This thing
Murat Wahab:happened. Right? So do you recommend when you're because we
Murat Wahab:have, we're going global? I mean, everybody's working across
Murat Wahab:the different nations countries? And so do you recommend when you
Murat Wahab:are working across different cultures to just pick up the
Murat Wahab:phone? Like how do you know when to email or pick up the phone?
Murat Wahab:So of course, there's step by step process. So you have to go
Murat Wahab:through the step by step process, there is also that
Murat Wahab:initial conversation so initially, you know that you're
Murat Wahab:trying to get to know each other it's like a dating right? So you
Murat Wahab:kind of like start with you don't do you don't ask for
Murat Wahab:marriage proposal, just immediately
Melinda Lee:ask for money, you're not gonna give me my
Melinda Lee:money right away.
Murat Wahab:We're not gonna give you money, no lender is
Murat Wahab:gonna give money like immediately like, right? So you
Murat Wahab:have to date and several steps to go through similarly in
Murat Wahab:financings that, you know, you have to do preliminary
Murat Wahab:documents, for example, the executive summary, business
Murat Wahab:plans, your five to 10 years financial projections, your
Murat Wahab:management resumes, or your sponsors, background, you know,
Murat Wahab:and construction budget, various construction proceed, like like
Murat Wahab:that. And then when you start communicating that and then
Murat Wahab:allow those lenders like for myself, allow me to do the
Murat Wahab:analysis understands those information first, right. And
Murat Wahab:sometimes what happened, it was like, Bro are so enthusiastic,
Murat Wahab:they just, like, bombarded with so much information. And you
Murat Wahab:know, it's too hard when you trying to digest and dissect,
Murat Wahab:you know, business plan that 100 pages, for example, to read
Murat Wahab:through, let alone the financial that they provided in the
Murat Wahab:spreadsheet, it takes time. Right, just to understand that.
Murat Wahab:So I think it's very helpful when even communicating, you
Murat Wahab:know, if they can speak the language of the finance, like,
Murat Wahab:you know, like, we're looking at when it talks about like
Murat Wahab:language, we talk about, like, okay, financial ratios, what the
Murat Wahab:financial ratio, what their service debt service coverage
Murat Wahab:look like, what's the company, you know, ability to service the
Murat Wahab:debt that they asking, what is the EBIT? Da? I'm not sure, but
Murat Wahab:it'd be like earnings before interest, tax depreciation,
Murat Wahab:amortisation? What's the free cash flow? What you know, all of
Murat Wahab:these things that is all acronym that they use? So for those who
Murat Wahab:are in finance, and banking, maybe sounds simple, but a lot
Murat Wahab:of the people just scratch their head, like, what are you asking
Murat Wahab:me, you know, so this is important when they should have,
Murat Wahab:you know, someone's like the CFO, that they work with that
Murat Wahab:understand and then be part of this, sometimes the CEO or the
Murat Wahab:owner may think that they know it all, because they know the
Murat Wahab:business, but they forget that they are not the masters of
Murat Wahab:everything. Right? Right. Right. Right. And it's takes time it
Murat Wahab:takes more time to slow down to understand everybody's length to
Murat Wahab:have a good communication to understand the language of both
Murat Wahab:parties. Like what culture are you dealing with, like make sure
Murat Wahab:what if you are pitching that you learn the language as much
Murat Wahab:as you can if you're pitching and then opposite side if you
Murat Wahab:are maybe a client? Or Or maybe you are the person with a lot of
Murat Wahab:technical you're the finance or you have all the jargon you
Murat Wahab:know, how do you dumb How do you speak the same language so your
Murat Wahab:client understands? Right? I'll give you an example. Right? So,
Murat Wahab:Latin America this is and Peru is a term for this you know,
Murat Wahab:highly educated individuals, you know, from Oxford and Cambridge,
Murat Wahab:you know, like, you know, this is a smart people, but when when
Murat Wahab:actually speaking and writing is a different thing and you know
Murat Wahab:that because some people like to speak fluently but writing is
Murat Wahab:awful and vice versa. Some people like actually writing
Murat Wahab:just fantastic flawlessly however, when speaking which is
Murat Wahab:like not there. Yeah, it is. This is very common that that
Murat Wahab:I've seen. So in this in this example of working like in a
Murat Wahab:modern America, you know, smart people and they can speak fluent
Murat Wahab:English. So whenever that they put it in writing, for example,
Murat Wahab:You know, my friend said, Oh, we, we have this type of
Murat Wahab:collateral, X amount of collateral and this unmovable
Murat Wahab:collateral like assets like land or buildings, whatnot. And then
Murat Wahab:what he meant by you know, this asset that, that he, he took it
Murat Wahab:for granted in understanding that the lender probably will
Murat Wahab:understood what he said. So, assuming is not good, because
Murat Wahab:the lender then come back when you say, What are you talking
Murat Wahab:about? You know, then what we asked you for, right? Why? Why
Murat Wahab:are you saying this? So, so this is what I say is just like that
Murat Wahab:I have to intervene and then just to get the lender and read
Murat Wahab:it like, Listen, Mr. Lender, this is not what my client
Murat Wahab:actually shared that with you and understand, what he's trying
Murat Wahab:to tell you is this. He has those collateral, he can pledge
Murat Wahab:the collateral, right? If you were to ask, and then this
Murat Wahab:collateral that he asked that, that he can pledge to secure the
Murat Wahab:funding is basically free and clear. You know, some of the
Murat Wahab:words they don't use, like free and clear. Sometimes they use
Murat Wahab:what incumbrances They use the word, you know, like, it's very
Murat Wahab:the language in itself. It's like, not that it's kind of
Murat Wahab:getting away sometimes.
Melinda Lee:And so what do you really totally I mean,
Melinda Lee:basically, okay, jargon is one thing. Jargon is completely
Melinda Lee:almost encrypted. And slang is always encrypted. Those are
Melinda Lee:obvious and then there's like, what you're saying to me just
Melinda Lee:basic words. Adapt profitable, you know, you profitability
Melinda Lee:could be kind of hard to but even adapt or accommodate, like,
Melinda Lee:even those one the words that are you feel like could be very
Melinda Lee:clear. It's not,
Murat Wahab:it's not like, you know, it's so funny sometimes
Murat Wahab:that when you hear this good bunch is not funny in a way that
Murat Wahab:it's lost in translation. It does. It does loss in
Murat Wahab:translation, and sometimes that my client is do I advise them?
Murat Wahab:If you were to write in English, maybe if you are fluent in
Murat Wahab:Spanish, kind of like have both? Yeah, just just kind of like to
Murat Wahab:knowing the fact that you know, the, the other side of the world
Murat Wahab:actually speak other languages, maybe French or Spanish by
Murat Wahab:Spanish, for example, like, you know, it's the second language
Murat Wahab:that in Latin America that mostly beside Portuguese, so, so
Murat Wahab:I would say yeah, then will be very helpful to have that your
Murat Wahab:two languages, you know, avoid from Miss understanding because
Murat Wahab:you're more comfortable on your own language.
Melinda Lee:Right, right. Right, right. Oh, yeah, I'm
Melinda Lee:learning Mandarin right now. This I'm gonna get on my
Melinda Lee:Mandarin classes even more.
Murat Wahab:Yeah, you know what, I used to work in Vietnam
Murat Wahab:before when I was in the hospitality, you know, that I
Murat Wahab:did. You know, I studied Italian. And I was in Vietnam.
Murat Wahab:And then when I studied some Vietnamese, Vietnamese
Murat Wahab:languages, so like, very, very difficult and challenging. And
Murat Wahab:one example is the word like, you know, because there are
Murat Wahab:different tone when you learn Mandarin, there's a different
Murat Wahab:tone. So for example, the word chicken like in Vietnam,
Murat Wahab:Vietnamese, like God, they will select No, we don't pronounce
Murat Wahab:God the God like almost like longer. I always butchered them,
Murat Wahab:and I messed up, right. So this is the example like, that's what
Murat Wahab:I say like, you know, you think, no, but actually, you don't know
Murat Wahab:because of that, that dust. There is a difference meaning
Murat Wahab:for that? Oh, yeah, just like a simple tone. Just like if you
Murat Wahab:just go up a little bit too high changes higher meaning? Yeah.
Murat Wahab:Yeah. And then also the financial jargon in banking is I
Murat Wahab:see like these AML the ATA the OCC FRB, you know, so almost
Murat Wahab:like, what is that?
Melinda Lee:Yeah.
Murat Wahab:You know, like, for example, we say you need to
Murat Wahab:actually pass the factor of the FCRA. Like, of aliens that
Melinda Lee:English is already hard enough. The regular spoken
Melinda Lee:word, so
Murat Wahab:yeah, you biotech basically is a lot more. Yes.
Murat Wahab:Yes. So for all the people that are out there that are in
Murat Wahab:technology, or in your own industry with very specific
Murat Wahab:niche language, just remember that English is already hard
Murat Wahab:enough. So when you're talking to a client or a key
Murat Wahab:stakeholder, or you're someone else that you need to either
Murat Wahab:pitch or make an offer, you know, just remember that some of
Murat Wahab:those languages it's very difficult for other people and
Murat Wahab:so just consider your audience always consider your audience.
Murat Wahab:Perhaps their style of communication style of
Murat Wahab:communication is important. What is her personality type? Do they
Murat Wahab:like a lot of details, or do they like just very bullet in to
Murat Wahab:the point, right, yeah, another call
Melinda Lee:Sure, like you mentioned, culture is important,
Melinda Lee:and especially if you're doing international work, right, what
Melinda Lee:is their culture? Because now you're layering on another
Melinda Lee:aspect that you really need to consider one word, what you
Melinda Lee:think might mean completely something different in another
Melinda Lee:culture, right? Or what
Murat Wahab:exactly, is it's a very different world. And then I
Murat Wahab:agree that with you that know your audience, would you do and
Murat Wahab:now don't assume things that just because that everybody
Murat Wahab:speak English, when they understand English? No, the
Murat Wahab:understanding is a little bit more different than you never
Murat Wahab:insulted the internet. They're intelligent, obviously. But
Murat Wahab:understanding those culture, the nuances are very important as
Murat Wahab:well. Now when other things like in the in the language that you
Murat Wahab:know, in finance, or even the basic stuff, when lenders
Murat Wahab:actually trying to consider regardless of my lenders, or
Murat Wahab:banks or non bank, they're looking at like, you know,
Murat Wahab:they're trying to assess right there is five, I don't know
Murat Wahab:whether you heard about five C's in basically in, in the lending
Murat Wahab:in the bank. And so if the five C's are basically that the
Murat Wahab:capacity, the capital, or the collateral, or the conditions
Murat Wahab:and character, okay, so this is what else is the basic stuff
Murat Wahab:when any lender is trying to gauge of how they want to extend
Murat Wahab:credit to besides well, all other, of course, criteria that
Murat Wahab:have to be met. But let's take a look about these five, see, I
Murat Wahab:will take the last one, the characters, character is leaning
Murat Wahab:is very important. So I'll give you an example of my clients
Murat Wahab:that I've known them for very long time from my days at Wells
Murat Wahab:Fargo, JP Morgan, and then, you know, even when I'm
Murat Wahab:entrepreneurs right now, and then they came back to me, I
Murat Wahab:know, when they come back to me, I said, Okay, I got my work cut
Murat Wahab:out for this one. Because I know that very well. So they came
Murat Wahab:back and, you know, I understand what challenges that I'm going
Murat Wahab:to face because I know these these owners very well, right?
Murat Wahab:And so why and why? So why why they, you know, approached me
Murat Wahab:and asked for help. So in particularly in this in this
Murat Wahab:scenario is this, my clients are trying to refinance a commercial
Murat Wahab:real estate in San Francisco, what had happened is, is that we
Murat Wahab:talked about character. So unfortunately, that the the
Murat Wahab:things that happened a long time ago, so you know, in the in the
Murat Wahab:banking and finance world, when your client tell you something
Murat Wahab:that they did, we are obligated to actually to communicate that
Murat Wahab:to the management to so we have to do our legal due diligence to
Murat Wahab:make sure that these are still you know, whether or not that is
Murat Wahab:still rings true. And we have to find the facts finding and to
Murat Wahab:make sure that we need to get those right now, whether it
Murat Wahab:mitigates the risk, but in this case of character, big issue. So
Murat Wahab:my client, basically that, you know, they basically kicked out
Murat Wahab:from another bank, and then they were they have these bank,
Murat Wahab:existing bank doesn't want to refinance them, so I have to
Murat Wahab:help them to find a new one. So long story short, what I did is
Murat Wahab:actually I knew that a bank, that community bank in the Bay
Murat Wahab:Area that basically that when I approached them, this is what
Murat Wahab:the communications is all about. I understand the background and
Murat Wahab:what's the challenges is and how to mitigate, mitigate that risk
Murat Wahab:immediately when I approached these banks, I say that, look,
Murat Wahab:you're not gonna have any issue with a five see the early on
Murat Wahab:with the capital, the collateral, the capacities, the
Murat Wahab:condition, but you're going to have a problem with the
Murat Wahab:characters here. So if you're going to get comfortable and
Murat Wahab:then go to these, you know, the the Korea credit committee,
Murat Wahab:sometimes they do have that and in the bank credit committee,
Murat Wahab:and if they can be comfortable and behind these transactions
Murat Wahab:and the reasons why the reason behind it that this has
Murat Wahab:happened. And I say that then only if they can if they get
Murat Wahab:comfortable, then I would say this is a good deal, because the
Murat Wahab:rest the financial ratio, if you're talking about DTI, if
Murat Wahab:you're talking about a big deal, you're talking about free cash
Murat Wahab:flow, he's talking about net profit, that is non issue.
Murat Wahab:Character is the issue. You see. So yeah, so this is important,
Murat Wahab:right? I mean, like you don't have anything else but that one
Murat Wahab:thing is still a big thing. So long story short, what happened
Murat Wahab:is, is that they by communicating that and
Murat Wahab:understanding what the roots of the problems I have, how I
Murat Wahab:communicate that make sure that the lender themselves
Murat Wahab:understanding and they can get behind it be comfortable, then
Murat Wahab:they can help the client. And the client also have to be of
Murat Wahab:course, you have to be honest and transparent, based on
Murat Wahab:factual, right, factual data, that is like cut both ways. And
Murat Wahab:so we managed, like to get them a new home to a different bang,
Murat Wahab:and then the findings that they get, but it's a lot of work. Of
Murat Wahab:course, like anything else. Everything is a lot of work
Murat Wahab:behind it behind the scene, but just to get that in the
Murat Wahab:communicating and understand like every party We're under the
Murat Wahab:same voice and have to do their part to make sure that everybody
Murat Wahab:communicated. Right, and understanding the the root of
Murat Wahab:the causes of the problem and find the solution, the viable
Murat Wahab:solution that everybody can be comfortable, especially on the
Murat Wahab:lender.
Melinda Lee:I think that's so cool. I think that's so amazing
Melinda Lee:how how important and critical communication can be, especially
Melinda Lee:in these really difficult situations and financial complex
Melinda Lee:challenges, you really have to be really good communicator.
Murat Wahab:Absolutely, you know, another anecdote that I
Murat Wahab:can give you like, you know, I have a former colleagues at the
Murat Wahab:bank, so smart, you know, credit train commercially credited
Murat Wahab:smart guy, you know, so, the, what I realised is that he the
Murat Wahab:challenges that we face as being a banker, you know, banker also
Murat Wahab:like any business, you got to sell, right, you got to sell
Murat Wahab:like the product and services of your employer of the bank. So he
Murat Wahab:he was not able, actually to close deals. And when I say to
Murat Wahab:close deals, like when he talked to communicate with the
Murat Wahab:borrowers, or potential borrowers, I would say, it's,
Murat Wahab:it's always ended up like, why are these borrowers are not
Murat Wahab:agreeing or wanted to go with them? For example. There are no
Murat Wahab:doubt there are various reason personality, whatnot. But one
Murat Wahab:things that I do realise any applies to like everyone's in
Murat Wahab:sales. It's basically that when you go back to Melinda, when you
Murat Wahab:say that, you know, that the communication style, whether you
Murat Wahab:are a big picture persons, you are, you are very specific. So
Murat Wahab:what happened in this situation is, is that my former colleagues
Murat Wahab:is that he is more is a very detail oriented, it's not to say
Murat Wahab:that's not important, it is important, but it's seeing the
Murat Wahab:big picture here, because at the end the borrower who are not
Murat Wahab:savvy in terms of understanding how what the financial with the
Murat Wahab:process, what does that mean, with all these jargon that you
Murat Wahab:will have to meet this number, you have to differential ratio,
Murat Wahab:you have to be debt service coverage, you have to, you know,
Murat Wahab:oh my gosh, he is good with this business. At the end, you know,
Murat Wahab:those borrowers only one thing that he said that he wants the
Murat Wahab:deal or not. That's all came out of his mouth. Oh, my God, you
Murat Wahab:see what I mean? Yeah. So basically, my advice is that you
Murat Wahab:take that, because the response from the borrower, because you
Murat Wahab:cannot put like on your as a bank, even no matter how
Murat Wahab:knowledgeable Are you? And no, no much, no matter? How much are
Murat Wahab:you trying to help, but you gotta understand your audience
Murat Wahab:and this particular borrower. But financing is not for
Murat Wahab:everyone. Right? He got his running his business, that's why
Murat Wahab:he's successful. Right? So but it just doesn't mean that he
Murat Wahab:knows the banking and then all the things that you do day in
Murat Wahab:and day out as a banker? No, it's not either, and neither
Murat Wahab:does the client or whoever you're trying to close a deal
Murat Wahab:with need to know all those details. Yes. And you have too
Murat Wahab:overwhelming, it's overwhelming.When you start
Murat Wahab:breaking down into the nuances of what entails. Yeah, it's
Murat Wahab:doesn't have to be that way. And people yawn after that.
Melinda Lee:Yeah, I think there's a timing for it, there's
Melinda Lee:a time and place for it, right. And this message is really,
Melinda Lee:really important for all everyone, because of the
Melinda Lee:audience here. There's some corporate people, and they're
Melinda Lee:very technical, they're engineers, they might be, and so
Melinda Lee:that they it's really difficult sometimes, because you're so
Melinda Lee:smart, and you want to give so much information. And if you
Melinda Lee:feel like the more information you give, the more smart you
Melinda Lee:look, or the more you know, and the more you impress the person,
Melinda Lee:right. And then on the other side, meanwhile, the other
Melinda Lee:person on the other side is actually not You're not even
Melinda Lee:connecting, you're not clicking.
Murat Wahab:No, I completely agree with you. So So basically,
Murat Wahab:that, you know, don't try too hard. And just because like, for
Murat Wahab:example, and I came across this as well, when you mentioned
Murat Wahab:about ingenious, right, and they're precise. So that's why
Murat Wahab:they wanted to be very precise of answers that they weren't.
Murat Wahab:They didn't realise that they are not accounting person,
Murat Wahab:right? The finance in the banking, they sometimes what I
Murat Wahab:have seen it is that this can potentially kill the deal
Murat Wahab:themselves. Because what you say, and it's kind of like
Murat Wahab:changed the minds of the lenders. So when you have that
Murat Wahab:and so there's nothing wrong that you want to as much as
Murat Wahab:details that you want, but also that there is a place in time
Murat Wahab:for that. Right. I think the tip is like I would say to the
Murat Wahab:audience, like avoid trying to avoid using financial jargons
Murat Wahab:are very complex financial terms when speaking to a diverse
Murat Wahab:audience. Because you never know, because not everyone is
Murat Wahab:like, you know, they're, they're banking professionals and
Murat Wahab:finance, but it's a lot of the non finance professional people,
Murat Wahab:right? So just trying to avoid that and speak in the very
Murat Wahab:claimed English or plain language that everybody's can
Murat Wahab:understand. And even that remains just just to be aware,
Murat Wahab:don't assume that even the plain English sometimes that plain
Murat Wahab:English may not be what they you want them to think. Correct?
Murat Wahab:Absolutely. And ask questions. Can you can you paraphrase? Do
Murat Wahab:you understand and have the other person repeat it? Right.
Murat Wahab:And also, now, I've said that, if that's the power of
Murat Wahab:storytelling, the story is that so how know how many times that
Murat Wahab:I come across, because I advise many startup established
Murat Wahab:companies and even at the sea level, when you talk about sea
Murat Wahab:level CEOs, CFOs, you know, like, this is a very high level
Murat Wahab:on the leadership role that they have in their company. But that
Murat Wahab:doesn't mean they're actually experts, and banking and finance
Murat Wahab:career accepting their CPA or CFO, sometimes even the CFO,
Murat Wahab:different, depending on the level of experiences of the CFO
Murat Wahab:has, whether they are actually working on the small company,
Murat Wahab:big company, you know, that's a very difference, right. And so
Murat Wahab:that's why even in the bank, and you have small business, you
Murat Wahab:have, you have the commercial bank and below market, and then
Murat Wahab:you have a corporate finance everything. And then you have
Murat Wahab:the investment banking. So every, that's long line of
Murat Wahab:business, have a different approach, and has a different
Murat Wahab:like, understanding, so powers, how this the power of
Murat Wahab:storytelling, I cannot just, you know, say these enough, so
Murat Wahab:especially in entrepreneurs and startup out there, and the
Murat Wahab:founders, listen, you're gonna be, you know, as a founders,
Murat Wahab:you're going to have a founders dilemma, but do know, you don't
Murat Wahab:know everything like me, I don't know, a lot of things. You know
Murat Wahab:what, you know, I know what I know. Simple as that. However,
Murat Wahab:that doesn't stop us from learning from each other. So the
Murat Wahab:startups is basically that, you know, when I advise them as
Murat Wahab:typically when they tried to pitch to raise capital, right,
Murat Wahab:and a lot of times, and it really depends, sometimes the
Murat Wahab:CEO, I mean, not CEO, but in the startup like a founder. So they
Murat Wahab:always thinks that they have to know it all. And they know it
Murat Wahab:all everything, right. But they don't understand that you're not
Murat Wahab:in HR, because you never work in HR. You, you are not in a PR and
Murat Wahab:marketing. Because sometimes you are the worst, the worst person
Murat Wahab:to represent your company to to speak publicly about your
Murat Wahab:company. Right? Yeah. So for example, like giving you that,
Murat Wahab:you know, when I studied my MBA, and if the university, you know,
Murat Wahab:in my cohort, there is one person that actually I'm so
Murat Wahab:impressed every single time with her. And this is why she works
Murat Wahab:in the, in the healthcare industry, and she always
Murat Wahab:negotiate with the unions. And it's not easy to do negotiation
Murat Wahab:with the union. And what it does is basically is that sometimes
Murat Wahab:when I talk about certain things, she can come out, maybe
Murat Wahab:in a one line is a, that's what you say, exactly, she can
Murat Wahab:capture everything, the essence of what I wanted to convey, and
Murat Wahab:communicate that very clear. So these talents, right, and
Murat Wahab:telling the stories. Now, going back to the founders, when they
Murat Wahab:pitch, right, they need to actually find the people and the
Murat Wahab:companies that know how to pitch of course, the best founders to
Murat Wahab:represent the company, because they are the one founding the
Murat Wahab:company. But I've seen often founders, when you're not ready
Murat Wahab:to get nervous in front of the audience, like maybe they should
Murat Wahab:engage you Melinda to speak in flow. You know, learn how to,
Murat Wahab:you know how to speak, you know, publicly, and because it's not
Murat Wahab:everybody's cup of tea, when they get nervous, they lost a
Murat Wahab:train of thought. And basically, then the investors look like
Murat Wahab:you're not confidence, how can we, you know, trust you as a,
Murat Wahab:you know, with our money, you know, things like that. And so,
Murat Wahab:the power of storytelling is is that we make sure what you
Murat Wahab:present that on the pitch deck is basically that it create a
Murat Wahab:stories that resonate to the investors or to the lenders that
Murat Wahab:you're talking to, because it's provided the narrative that you
Murat Wahab:know, for that respective companies and that you're trying
Murat Wahab:to do right, but for example, you know, sometimes basic stuff
Murat Wahab:that I've seen recently, you know, a founder who present to
Murat Wahab:the investors, he doesn't even look when you speak, doesn't
Murat Wahab:have eye contact, and oh, he looked down all the time, look
Murat Wahab:on the floor. So I realised Is that that mean that that is a
Murat Wahab:basic stuff? You shouldn't do that because it knows itself,
Murat Wahab:how tired you are, I don't know how many meetings and pitches
Murat Wahab:that you've already done. But it's like you only got one shot
Murat Wahab:every single time. That's so
Melinda Lee:so I want to clarify, did you say that the as
Melinda Lee:a when you're pitching or when you're telling a story you want
Melinda Lee:to pick a story that resonates with the audience resonates with
Melinda Lee:the investor?
Murat Wahab:Yes. And remember those investors? When do you
Murat Wahab:want to invest? A lot of those investor have experienced in the
Murat Wahab:industry that they want to invest?
Melinda Lee:Right? So how do I know if I'm trying to pitch How
Melinda Lee:do I know that? What what do you just look online to say, hey,
Melinda Lee:this traditionally, this person has invested in your homework,
Melinda Lee:right?
Murat Wahab:So basically, for your pitch your invitation for
Murat Wahab:Who are these VCs? For example? Who are these guys at the angel
Murat Wahab:groups are intolerant? If you can find your point of contact
Murat Wahab:and do a little bit of research, who you are, it just like when
Murat Wahab:people go for job interviews, right, the brain builder who's
Murat Wahab:the interviewer, and then what it is do your homework a little
Murat Wahab:bit and then know that so when you're speaking, so you get
Murat Wahab:ready. And sometimes, you know, I would say a lot of the VCs,
Murat Wahab:the one that the time one, the kind of the kind of kindness,
Murat Wahab:they they actually provide like, insight, like, Okay, this is
Murat Wahab:what we're looking for. Yeah. But are you? Are you telling
Murat Wahab:them? Are you training them to do a story around their
Murat Wahab:background? And why they started the company? Or what kind of
Murat Wahab:stories are they storytelling, it's like, it's very powerful.
Murat Wahab:For example, founders, like why they're passionate about their
Murat Wahab:product, they're passionate about the product. Why is that?
Murat Wahab:How does it come about that they're trying to solve? The
Murat Wahab:problem is this problem is just like one problem just only
Murat Wahab:applied to them, or this is a problem globally, that they need
Murat Wahab:to tackle and then can help people around the world
Murat Wahab:globally. A lot of the investors that they looking at how big
Murat Wahab:like this company can go IPO, right? If the problems and the
Murat Wahab:solutions that the company is trying to provide is is that
Murat Wahab:solutions that are going to tackle the or disrupt the market
Murat Wahab:disruptive technologies globally, right, because then
Murat Wahab:that your products can go global. But if the products or
Murat Wahab:the services you that you actually trying to solve is only
Murat Wahab:one of the local problems may not be the investors that they
Murat Wahab:want to invest in your company, because they're looking for
Murat Wahab:different things that that more company can go global. Yeah,
Murat Wahab:yeah. So, so passionate is about what you're driven, why you're
Murat Wahab:driven, right? And then why is that your management team is the
Murat Wahab:right team for you to execute, and to execute your company and
Murat Wahab:then get this company off the ground and be successful.
Murat Wahab:Do stories important, and they don't. And like, for example,
Murat Wahab:recently, I asked like this founder. And he said, I asked
Murat Wahab:him to how do you know your co founder? Because you have three
Murat Wahab:founders, you have, you have all of them three. And then this co
Murat Wahab:founders, one of them is actually from the high school,
Murat Wahab:so they know each other. They're buddies, the article founder
Murat Wahab:that became unfortunately that co founder, it became a CEO. So
Murat Wahab:my question is that how do you get to know and pick this
Murat Wahab:person, as a CEO? When one person that you are in the bay
Murat Wahab:area here, and one person in the Philippines? How do you how do
Murat Wahab:you get to know each other? And how do you select this person as
Murat Wahab:a CEO and why?
Melinda Lee:Right?
Murat Wahab:So this is like, and because I saw when they
Murat Wahab:doing this pitching, right? The founders who do the pitching is
Murat Wahab:like, uncomfortable and the story, but there's not the same
Murat Wahab:of passions that you have on the local high school.
Melinda Lee:Oh, got it. Got it. Got it. That makes sense, right?
Murat Wahab:It doesn't trump doesn't see it,
Melinda Lee:you can see and totally see it. Yeah.
Murat Wahab:The comfortable, uncomfortable.
Melinda Lee:Yes, yes. Yeah, I agree. I can see that, because
Melinda Lee:I've worked with a lot of different presenters. And this
Melinda Lee:is really true, even though you're talking about someone
Melinda Lee:pitching to gain capital from investors, the same concepts
Melinda Lee:apply to whether you're pitching to stakeholder, if you're an
Melinda Lee:organisation, and your company leaders, sometimes you have to
Melinda Lee:pitch your your initiative, like this initiative is going to help
Melinda Lee:if you're thinking about how it can help globally, your earlier
Melinda Lee:like the investors want to hear how it's going to help globally.
Melinda Lee:So if you're pitching an initiative, think broader, how's
Melinda Lee:this going to help the company versus maybe your department, or
Melinda Lee:your story, a compelling story, if you're only thinking about
Melinda Lee:the department or the organ, like the one area just think
Melinda Lee:more broadly, and then that will be more compelling and tell
Melinda Lee:stories on that and that'll be more compelling for your
Melinda Lee:stakeholders
Murat Wahab:to even do and I can say as a principal, your
Murat Wahab:global funding partner when I look at the project finance
Murat Wahab:ticularly that I'm gonna get excited what for example, what
Murat Wahab:project okay, it's not just like Oh, I'm doing this XYZ project
Murat Wahab:cost 2 Billion US dollar sounds big, you know, all that. It
Murat Wahab:doesn't matter to me. And sometimes it's that the project
Murat Wahab:will be only 20 million or 50 million. But what matters to me
Murat Wahab:is looking at what project what impact they have in the
Murat Wahab:community, how many jobs are planning to create? And also
Murat Wahab:what kind of impact that they have to the world? And how are
Murat Wahab:these going to serve them to realise their project become
Murat Wahab:reality? Because I think it is very important not only like
Murat Wahab:trying to seek out money, right? And but the project, what is
Murat Wahab:have you done to the community that you live, or the global
Murat Wahab:community that do going to have these impacts? So it's got more
Murat Wahab:excited about that, rather than I have this cool technology that
Murat Wahab:I'm going to do like renewable energy, whatnot. But what does
Murat Wahab:that mean? Right?
Melinda Lee:Impact, right, yeah. And then and then when
Melinda Lee:you're speaking is speaking with passion, not just looking at the
Melinda Lee:ground and look at the ground the whole time? Yeah.
Murat Wahab:This is basic, but it's happened dated,
Melinda Lee:especially when you're nervous, especially
Melinda Lee:nervous, like,
Murat Wahab:I get nervous as well, no matter how
Murat Wahab:professionals I am. But you know, but sometimes the ideas I
Murat Wahab:lost my train of thought people would just come back backed up,
Murat Wahab:right? You know, how you go into, like, quickly, and just,
Murat Wahab:like, recover from that moment. And then sometimes we do like, I
Murat Wahab:call it like, I have a senior moment, but I'm not senior yet.
Murat Wahab:But if you know, you can make a joke about it.
Murat Wahab:Immediately, immediately, you backed up and then just learn
Murat Wahab:you can Okay, right? And so it happens to everyone it happened
Murat Wahab:to any entertainer no matter what and how professional they
Murat Wahab:are, like when they go on stage did suddenly they forget the
Murat Wahab:lyrics?
Melinda Lee:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I get it. Yeah. Oh, my goodness,
Melinda Lee:that was really amazing. I think they were very, that was a
Melinda Lee:fantastic piece of great tips, helping us to understand the
Melinda Lee:complexity of financial communication everywhere, from
Melinda Lee:jargon to e mail to even just regular plain English, how it
Melinda Lee:can be quite nuanced and complicated, but I think you've
Melinda Lee:provided some really good tips of how to, to navigate this, how
Melinda Lee:to master it. I like storytelling and being able to
Melinda Lee:tell compelling stories. And same with passion and go big,
Melinda Lee:like, say compelling, I think bigger, what is the impact that
Melinda Lee:you're trying to make and tell a story around it?
Murat Wahab:Absolutely. And I think it was just that for my
Murat Wahab:years is, you know, seeing and seeing being judging a lot of
Murat Wahab:these sometimes the competitions, right pitch, pitch
Murat Wahab:competitions, the demo day, that people that, you know, a lot of
Murat Wahab:these accelerators, whatever they do, and I've seen that
Murat Wahab:companies coming from South Africa, you know, like South
Murat Wahab:Korea, coming coming from Malaysia, Singapore is, you
Murat Wahab:know, all the other different parts of the world when they
Murat Wahab:pitch is very different. Because they are, you know, the cultural
Murat Wahab:differences and how they are Americans are their friends, you
Murat Wahab:know, Americans is always like, I would say, in general always
Murat Wahab:come out, but actually that very confidence, you know, sometimes
Murat Wahab:even like, then the American Way is is little bit different than
Murat Wahab:happy digging more like on the facts. So is that correct, you
Murat Wahab:know, like, but they show that they present themselves a very
Murat Wahab:difference. And then sometimes that I've seen another country
Murat Wahab:when they pitch like they are very shy, and because of
Murat Wahab:culturally, even though the company is really good at what
Murat Wahab:they're doing, but when they're building is fantastic. But it is
Murat Wahab:that the way that they don't, you know, like trying to
Murat Wahab:communicate that they don't know how, because they're afraid of
Murat Wahab:that being boastful. They're afraid that being egoistic,
Murat Wahab:right. See that way?
Melinda Lee:Right. Yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting
Melinda Lee:and it's not sure.
Murat Wahab:Yeah, it just it is not so I think it like you know,
Murat Wahab:cultural differences. You know, I do have a colleagues that you
Murat Wahab:know, wrote a book about, you know, how to talk to Americans
Murat Wahab:basically, and she's the author and one of the co author of How
Murat Wahab:to talk to two Americans and doing business so her job is
Murat Wahab:basically like learning new people that you know, how to not
Murat Wahab:to piss off other people when you're doing this like you know,
Murat Wahab:like when you have to like elbow bombs and certain coaches, you
Murat Wahab:know,
Melinda Lee:oh my gosh, that was so fun. I was awesome. How
Melinda Lee:would EFA a company domestic international company need some
Melinda Lee:access to capital? How could they find you?
Murat Wahab:Absolutely. I welcome any opportunity to work
Murat Wahab:even a small medium enterprises, whether you are domestics,
Murat Wahab:companies or whether you are international companies. And
Murat Wahab:please you can reach out to go to my website, which is
https://www.hakimsaya.com/contact So it's
https://www.hakimsaya.com/contact start with that first fill up
https:those inquiry form. And in a send us an email at info at
https:hacking cya.com. And when you fill out those forms, and then
https:it gave you the, you know, options to whether that you do
https:international project financing or invoice financing, or for
https:domestics request as well reach out, and you know, call, it's
https:great, but you know, because I'm busy, so maybe the best way is
https:actually to get hold of me is through email. And then when I
https:get comfortable, I would definitely that reach out to
https:each individual. I have very swift response. And I am also
https:very quick and say yes or no, whether I can work with you or
https:not. Wonderful, thank you so much. And we're gonna put your
https:website also in the show notes. Oh, okay. Thank you so much, Melinda.
https:Yeah, I really hope that, you know, your audience and, you
https:know, will benefit at least one or two, what we discussed today
https:on your podcast. And, again, it's a it's a privilege, and
https:it's an honour to be part of your journey. I wish you the all
https:the best and so successful on your podcast. So and then you
https:can invite me to come back the next day.
Melinda Lee:And of course, there's a lot that we can learn
Melinda Lee:even more, I mean, this is so much to talk about. But thank
Melinda Lee:you so much for sharing, that what you gave today was valuable
Melinda Lee:and valuable. I trust you're gonna get some nuggets and and
Melinda Lee:learn on how to do this.
Murat Wahab:Yes. And last but not least, do know for your
Murat Wahab:audience, when I speak, it's come from the place of really
Murat Wahab:care. That's the place that I talk about. It's it's not merely
Murat Wahab:lip services, that is from the place that I know that I'm
Murat Wahab:deeply sincere. When I shared that four decades of experiences
Murat Wahab:and knowledge,
Melinda Lee:I know, and that's why we are that's why we're
Melinda Lee:buddies. I work colleagues and you know, our audience, my
Melinda Lee:audience, or a heart centred leaders on a mission on a
Melinda Lee:mission to make an impact, make a difference. And so thank you
Melinda Lee:Murad. Thank you, dear listeners for being here. And I'll see you
Melinda Lee:at the next episode. Take care.
Murat Wahab:Thank you guys. Thanks.
