Feb. 27, 2024

Leadership Personified – an interview with Sarah McArthur | RR247

Leadership Personified – an interview with Sarah McArthur | RR247

In this episode, we explore the realm of leadership with the incredible Sarah McArthur, Editor-in-Chief of the Apex Award-winning "Leader to Leader Journal." Broadcasting from the heart of New York, Sarah brings a wealth of experience and knowledge in leadership, management, and executive coaching.

Join us as Sarah shares with me her impactful relationships with luminaries like Frances Hasselbein, Alan Mulally, and Marshall Goldsmith, highlighting the transformative essence of authentic leadership. Our discussion highlights Frances Hasselbein's enduring legacy, her lasting impact on organizations like the Girl Scouts of America, and the key leadership principles she stood for.

We also talk about Sarah’s passion project, a documentary she is currently producing, along with Emmy Award-winning documentarians, David & Beverly Schler—Defining Moments—about her mentor and friend, Frances Hasselbein. Watch for this project in later in 2024.

You can reach Sarah at: sarah@sarahmcarthur.com

Website: www.sarahmcarthur.com

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sarahmcarthur

A little about me: 

I began my career as a teacher, was a corporate trainer for many years, and then found my niche training & supporting business owners, entrepreneurs & sales professionals to network at a world-class level. My passion is working with motivated people, who are coachable and who want to build their businesses through relationship marketing and networking (online & offline). I help my clients create retention strategies, grow through referrals, and create loyal customers by staying connected. 

In appreciation for being here, I have a couple of items for you. 

A LinkedIn Checklist for setting up your fully optimized Profile:  

An opportunity to test drive the Follow Up system I recommend by taking the  

10 Card Challenge – you won’t regret it.   


Connect with me: 

http://JanicePorter.com 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiceporter/ 

https://www.facebook.com/janiceporter1 


Thanks for listening! 

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Transcript
Janice Porter:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's

Janice Porter:

episode of relationships rule. I'm very excited about my guest

Janice Porter:

today, Sarah McArthur who is joining us from New York,

Sarah McArthur:

New York, East Coast, Pennsylvania, New York.

Sarah McArthur:

And

Janice Porter:

Sarah is she has an amazing resume, so to speak,

Janice Porter:

that I want to share with you. But I first of all want to

Janice Porter:

welcome Sarah to the show.

Sarah McArthur:

Thank you, Janice. so wonderful to be here.

Janice Porter:

Thank you. I love that we met on LinkedIn. And I

Janice Porter:

meet some of my most interesting people on LinkedIn. And I always

Janice Porter:

say that because I teach people how to use LinkedIn. And they

Janice Porter:

don't often think that that can happen. And it does, but you

Janice Porter:

have to, you have to know what you're doing and you have to be

Janice Porter:

reaching out in the right way to people. So I was amazed and in

Janice Porter:

so interested when I learned what Sarah does, and I want to

Janice Porter:

share this with you. She is the editor in chief of the apex

Janice Porter:

award winning leader to leader journal, which was founded by

Janice Porter:

Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient, Francis hasslein, who

Janice Porter:

we're gonna get into talking about Francis for sure in this

Janice Porter:

episode, and she is a thought partner and trusted adviser to

Janice Porter:

former CEO of Boeing and Ford, Alan Mulally, who is considered

Janice Porter:

one of the greatest leaders of the 21st century, Sarah's

Janice Porter:

mission is to help leaders work together towards a bright future

Janice Porter:

for all her fields of expertise are leadership management,

Janice Porter:

personal leadership, development, and executive and

Janice Porter:

business coaching. She is currently producing defining

Janice Porter:

moments, a documentary about Francis hasslein with an Emmy

Janice Porter:

Award winning doc documentarian, David and Beverly Schlanger

Janice Porter:

Schuler Sarah has authored and edited many books including

Janice Porter:

making waves with former CEO of Celebrity Cruises. Lisa lute off

Janice Porter:

parallel and work is love made visible with Marshall Goldsmith

Janice Porter:

and Francis Hatfield. Heseltine forwarded for it done by Alan

Janice Porter:

Mulally. Now, there's so much more. And I don't want to sit

Janice Porter:

here and just read this because I want to dig in with you,

Janice Porter:

Sarah. And where I want to start first is the fact that these

Janice Porter:

names Francis hassled by an Alan Mulally and, particularly, and

Janice Porter:

Marshall Goldsmith, they come up a lot. And what that meant to me

Janice Porter:

is it isn't just about work relationships, these are people

Janice Porter:

that became personal relationships in your life,

Janice Porter:

people, you know, like and trust, and that really has

Janice Porter:

colored your world for so long. So can you speak to that?

Janice Porter:

Because I'm all about relationships. Right? And to me,

Janice Porter:

that is the most significant piece.

Sarah McArthur:

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Janice. I'm

Sarah McArthur:

so happy to be here. And this is such a special time for me to

Sarah McArthur:

get to talk with you. And I love your subject matter so much.

Sarah McArthur:

You're so right. I'm fortunate in that the people that I get to

Sarah McArthur:

work with these few that we're mentioning right now, Marshall

Sarah McArthur:

Goldsmith, Francis Hessel, Bine, alum Lolly, not only am I do I

Sarah McArthur:

work with them work together with them, but they're also

Sarah McArthur:

very, very, very dear friends. Not only am I their dear friend,

Sarah McArthur:

and they're my dear friend, but they are also dear friends of

Sarah McArthur:

each other. Wow. So Marshall Goldsmith, one of his heroes is

Sarah McArthur:

Francis Hessel by,

Janice Porter:

and I think she's one of your heroes, too. Oh,

Janice Porter:

definitely.

Sarah McArthur:

alum lolly. One of his heroes is Francis Hassel.

Sarah McArthur:

Buying. And so I was introduced to Francis a number of years

Sarah McArthur:

ago, working on a book with Marshall Goldsmith. And I had

Sarah McArthur:

known of her and, you know, wanted to meet her. And then I

Sarah McArthur:

was the managing editor of a book. So I wanted to put this

Sarah McArthur:

book together about leadership. And so ask all these different

Sarah McArthur:

contributors what their idea of leadership was, and going

Sarah McArthur:

forward. And I asked Francis, and she responded, of course,

Sarah McArthur:

and she wrote an article and sent it back. And what was so

Sarah McArthur:

interesting about that article, I had been in the leadership

Sarah McArthur:

field for a while. And what was so interesting about that

Sarah McArthur:

article is I remember reading it early in the morning. When I

Sarah McArthur:

like to do my editing, I'm reading it early in the morning

Sarah McArthur:

and reading her, her her article or message, and it is the first

Sarah McArthur:

article about leadership that ever made me cry aloud. The

Sarah McArthur:

message was right to my heart. And the message of that article

Sarah McArthur:

is about respect for all people. And how that has been the

Sarah McArthur:

guiding principle for Francis throughout her life. And

Sarah McArthur:

Francis, what I loved dearly, CEO of the Girl Scouts from 19,

Sarah McArthur:

site 976 to 1990. Peter Drucker, founding father of modern

Sarah McArthur:

management said she was the greatest leader he had ever met,

Sarah McArthur:

you know, they work together partner for many years, a little

Sarah McArthur:

like Ellen Malala. And I, I think she wrote, I don't know,

Sarah McArthur:

wrote and edited 27 or 28 books, she was awarded 23 honorary

Sarah McArthur:

doctorate degrees. And was she, she she didn't graduate college

Sarah McArthur:

because she was taking care of her family. So she, you know,

Sarah McArthur:

she was 1951 class chair at West Point, she was extraordinary.

Sarah McArthur:

And she was she was the type of leader who believed in

Sarah McArthur:

inclusion, appreciating people sharing leadership, not telling

Sarah McArthur:

people what to do not command and control. But, you know,

Sarah McArthur:

sharing leadership. And I thought, when I was reading this

Sarah McArthur:

article, I thought this this article by Francis, this

Sarah McArthur:

contribution, I thought, if Francis can be who she is, with

Sarah McArthur:

respect for all people, if she can lead this way, and have this

Sarah McArthur:

impact. So can I Oh, wow. And, you know, so since then, that

Sarah McArthur:

was in early 2000s. Since then, I have found ways to get as

Sarah McArthur:

close to Francis as I possibly can, because that's what I do.

Sarah McArthur:

She's, I love her with all my heart.

Janice Porter:

So we'll come to her story in a minute. I did

Janice Porter:

see, though, that I wrote down that she said that leadership is

Janice Porter:

how to be not how to do.

Sarah McArthur:

She did the full quote. And I follow this like

Sarah McArthur:

crazy. The full quote is, leadership is Francis's personal

Sarah McArthur:

definition of leadership. And she said, leadership is a matter

Sarah McArthur:

of how to be not how to do it is the quality of our character

Sarah McArthur:

that determines our performance, and results. So, to me, what

Sarah McArthur:

that means is, I can be a leader, whose character, I have

Sarah McArthur:

respect for all people, that is my character, and that will

Sarah McArthur:

determine my performance and results, meaning everyone will

Sarah McArthur:

be included and feel appreciated and all that kind of stuff. And

Sarah McArthur:

if I am a leader, whose character is different from that

Sarah McArthur:

there's a different quality, my performance and results will be

Sarah McArthur:

different. So she had us focus on things like humility, love

Sarah McArthur:

and service. So

Janice Porter:

tell me a little bit about lead the leader to

Janice Porter:

leader journal that you that's your baby, right? You're the

Janice Porter:

editor in chief of that is a it's still a real, tangible

Janice Porter:

journal, or magazine. And how does it come out?

Sarah McArthur:

leader to leader journal was started by Francis

Sarah McArthur:

founded by Francis Heseltine in 1996. So, it's been around, she

Sarah McArthur:

was editor in chief until four years ago or so three years ago

Sarah McArthur:

or so. And it's quarterly, it's a print and online publication.

Sarah McArthur:

We have probably 15 contributors at each issue. Our recent issue

Sarah McArthur:

was a commemorative issue about Francis you know, all the people

Sarah McArthur:

who are a lot of the people who have been influenced by Francis

Sarah McArthur:

who liked to write and have written for the journal

Sarah McArthur:

contributed a piece about her there's no way then

Janice Porter:

we can go any further without talking and

Janice Porter:

getting to know really who Francis is because she's so you

Janice Porter:

know, in it, I don't know the word. You're the writer it's

Janice Porter:

been it hasn't come to me but you know, she's, she's not

Janice Porter:

embodies but you know, she's everywhere when it comes to you

Janice Porter:

and and your work. So, and I'm very excited. I did watch the

Janice Porter:

trailer twice to that documentary and I can't wait

Janice Porter:

till it till it comes out so I can learn More. I mean, I'm

Janice Porter:

learning little bits as they go along about what an amazing

Janice Porter:

woman and leader Francis was because I had never heard of

Janice Porter:

her. First of all, I'm Canadian, but that shouldn't be the issue.

Janice Porter:

But Girl Scouts of America, right, I wouldn't have gotten

Janice Porter:

that concept or that piece. My daughter, my one of my daughters

Janice Porter:

was a Girl Scout here, but I don't think I ever heard her

Janice Porter:

name come up. So tell my audience about who she was. And

Janice Porter:

the fact that she's, like, amazing, and that you are in the

Janice Porter:

midst of producing this documentary about her life,

Janice Porter:

which is going to be come out next year, and it's going to be

Janice Porter:

amazing. So tell us who she is. She, okay. Go.

Sarah McArthur:

Francis is very special. Our documentary will

Sarah McArthur:

come out summer of next year. That's our plan. It's called

Sarah McArthur:

defining moments, The Life and Leadership legacy of Francis

Sarah McArthur:

Hassel bine. Francis Housel bine. You can tell she is dead.

Sarah McArthur:

I am definitely all about Francis. Because Francis, to me,

Sarah McArthur:

embodies who I think we can be. If we want to all work together,

Sarah McArthur:

she is that she has the characteristics and qualities of

Sarah McArthur:

of people who want to work together. She definitely is that

Sarah McArthur:

person. So Francis was born and raised in Johnstown,

Sarah McArthur:

Pennsylvania, and in 1915, so she served she served us for 107

Sarah McArthur:

years. That's

Janice Porter:

what I was waiting for. She was 107 When

Janice Porter:

she died, and to lunch the day before she died with you or that

Janice Porter:

the week before.

Sarah McArthur:

No, no, we didn't go to lunch. The day

Sarah McArthur:

before. No, we were

Janice Porter:

here. Or there in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. Yeah,

Janice Porter:

we are here in Easton, Easton. But you used to go to lunch with

Janice Porter:

her once a week, right? Yeah,

Sarah McArthur:

we went to lunch. So I used to live on the,

Sarah McArthur:

on the west coast. And Francis was had a place in New York. And

Sarah McArthur:

so I would meet her for lunch, we would go to the force, I

Sarah McArthur:

would take her to the Four Seasons restaurant. And not

Sarah McArthur:

every week, but very frequently it was it was pretty frequent.

Sarah McArthur:

And every time we went to lunch, she would always ask me the

Sarah McArthur:

question, which is the question that's we asked of all the

Sarah McArthur:

contributors for book or book work is love made visible? And

Sarah McArthur:

the question is, what do you see? When you look out the

Sarah McArthur:

window that's visible, but not yet seen by others? So Frances,

Sarah McArthur:

back to that question about Francis, who she was Francis was

Sarah McArthur:

the type of leader who she always she always had us.

Sarah McArthur:

Thinking about self awareness, she always had us thinking about

Sarah McArthur:

who we are, you know, why we are, who we are, what we do, and

Sarah McArthur:

how we do it, she had us, she had a way of leading us not by

Sarah McArthur:

telling us what to do, which was the old way in her time was not

Sarah McArthur:

the old way. That's our time, that was the way more and she

Sarah McArthur:

she had a way of leading us, you know, leading hundreds of 1000s

Sarah McArthur:

of volunteers at the Girl Scouts, right? massive

Sarah McArthur:

turnaround to include all little girls, instead of just some

Sarah McArthur:

little girls, I mean, massive turnaround. She had a way of

Sarah McArthur:

leading us not by telling us what to do so much, but by

Sarah McArthur:

having us look inside ourselves, at who we want to be, you know,

Sarah McArthur:

back to that leadership as a matter of how to be that how to

Sarah McArthur:

do who we want to be in this world. And then just wonderful

Sarah McArthur:

things happen as a result of that role

Janice Porter:

model really extraordinary in her time,

Janice Porter:

right? Because there weren't many women in who had the

Janice Porter:

influence that she essentially had, didn't she she got the

Janice Porter:

Medal of Freedom from Bill Clinton, President Clinton,

Janice Porter:

right. And, and how So one was that that would be the 90s but

Sarah McArthur:

that was in the 90s. She's the first woman to

Sarah McArthur:

graced the cover of Businessweek is the first woman to ever chair

Sarah McArthur:

a United Way campaign. So she and she was also she was the

Sarah McArthur:

first woman to do a lot of things. And when asked about it,

Sarah McArthur:

or when she was she was she was asked about being a woman

Sarah McArthur:

leader, she would say, I'm a leader who happens to be a

Sarah McArthur:

woman. So don't focus on my. Yeah, you know, my, my gender.

Sarah McArthur:

Yeah, focus on who I am.

Janice Porter:

So she'll be adamant about that. And

Janice Porter:

so she

Janice Porter:

the book would work is love made visible that you did with. It

Janice Porter:

was the story of Lisa lotof. Pirlo, right, who is the CEO,

Janice Porter:

former CEO of Celebrity Cruises, and wasn't she with another

Janice Porter:

company as well? I don't remember.

Sarah McArthur:

So the book with Lisa Lu Tov Pirlo is called

Sarah McArthur:

making waves. Oh, sorry, making waves the other that'll be

Sarah McArthur:

published in early early Well, in February, early 2008. Okay.

Sarah McArthur:

Right. Because that's forthcoming. Is

Janice Porter:

that did you edit that or did you write

Sarah McArthur:

Lisa and I wrote that, Lisa, she's the she's the

Sarah McArthur:

CEO. Well, thus, she was the CEO of Celebrity Cruises, and she

Sarah McArthur:

has become the, the vice chair of External Affairs for Royal

Sarah McArthur:

Caribbean group was, which is, okay, we're overall company.

Sarah McArthur:

Right? Okay. So

Janice Porter:

I think what what is interesting to me is, as I

Janice Porter:

was doing a little bit of research I mentioned before we

Janice Porter:

went on air that I saw another book that you were involved with

Janice Porter:

called a time, a time to lead. And that was written by Craig

Janice Porter:

Dowden. And it says, with Alan Mulally and Sarah, Sarah

Janice Porter:

MacArthur, so how do you how do you do that? Like, somebody's

Janice Porter:

writing the book, and then it's with you, what does that mean?

Janice Porter:

Because I have no idea. I see it all the time. But what does that

Janice Porter:

mean?

Sarah McArthur:

It depends on on the book that we're working on.

Janice Porter:

It depends. So use this as an example. It with

Sarah McArthur:

this. Craig Dowden is the lead author and

Sarah McArthur:

Alan and I have, it's called a masterclass. Okay, so within

Sarah McArthur:

each chapter that Craig wrote up about the principles of

Sarah McArthur:

leadership, there's a masterclass section. And that's

Sarah McArthur:

Alan and I, so we have been writing it.

Janice Porter:

And so you do the practical pieces around. Okay,

Janice Porter:

that's

Sarah McArthur:

how working together applies with this

Sarah McArthur:

certain principle.

Janice Porter:

Okay. Okay. Now, do you see, I'm going off left

Janice Porter:

field here. Do you see any positive changes, or any sort of

Janice Porter:

huge leaps around leadership today? From what it was like,

Janice Porter:

you know, 20 years ago, even 10 years ago? Probably? Has it

Janice Porter:

changed?

Sarah McArthur:

So my, in leadership, my, for me, I always

Sarah McArthur:

think of leadership is just like, you know, coaching or cars

Sarah McArthur:

or whatever it is, I have a specific area of leadership that

Sarah McArthur:

I would address, I would answer this question too. So for me,

Sarah McArthur:

communication in leadership has changed dramatically. Do

Janice Porter:

you mean communication style? Or do you

Janice Porter:

mean,

Sarah McArthur:

just technology style?

Janice Porter:

Yes. And the way it happens, okay. Absolutely.

Sarah McArthur:

I mean, you could look at something as

Sarah McArthur:

simple as attention span, when it comes to communication. And

Sarah McArthur:

were 20 years ago, it would be nothing to think of a speaker

Sarah McArthur:

speaking for an hour about a subject. I mean, that would

Sarah McArthur:

probably be too short, two and a half would be better. And now

Sarah McArthur:

it's okay, if you're going to go longer than 15 seconds, I'm not

Sarah McArthur:

going to be able to keep our audience's attention. So we need

Sarah McArthur:

to engage them with something, something rather

Janice Porter:

Isn't that something. I my granddaughter

Janice Porter:

called me last night or her mother FaceTime to me. She's

Janice Porter:

only four. And she stood there and she said, Hi, grandma. Do

Janice Porter:

you like my new sweatshirt? Mommy bought it for me? And I

Janice Porter:

said, it's lovely Amara, I said, I hear that you went somewhere

Janice Porter:

special today. Where did you go? Science World and then off she

Janice Porter:

went, but that was it. That was her attention span. It was gone.

Janice Porter:

And that to me is is epitomizes what, it's what it's like today

Janice Porter:

because you're right, it is so much more difficult to keep

Janice Porter:

people's attention.

Sarah McArthur:

So and and so there's the flip side of that.

Sarah McArthur:

So it's you know, the attention is changing technology, you

Sarah McArthur:

know, all the all All the reasons people talk about. So

Sarah McArthur:

our attention is changing, our attention spans are changing.

Sarah McArthur:

And so route rather than, you know, studying it, taking a

Sarah McArthur:

pause, reviewing it, asking about it and trying to

Sarah McArthur:

understand it, it seems like, a lot of times people are trying

Sarah McArthur:

to keep people engaged in the old way, rather than just let

Sarah McArthur:

them go, you know, it there, we definitely have, we definitely

Sarah McArthur:

have communication challenges in lots of areas, and a lot of it

Sarah McArthur:

has to do, I mean, so much of it has to do with, you know, first

Sarah McArthur:

there was the internet, and then there was the cell phone, and

Sarah McArthur:

now there's the AI, there's just so much change, we have these

Sarah McArthur:

tools, it's like, you know, back in the old days, when, I mean,

Sarah McArthur:

the really old days, when someone discovered fire, that

Sarah McArthur:

was a big deal. And we're kind of doing that right now. You

Sarah McArthur:

know, we could send up smoke signals, you know, there was

Sarah McArthur:

fire, we could, there was a big deal. And today, we have these

Sarah McArthur:

incredible tools. And different people think differently about

Sarah McArthur:

them. So my area of leadership and communication, you is

Sarah McArthur:

significantly changing. And I'm constantly, you know, as editor

Sarah McArthur:

in chief of leaders, a leader, I'm constantly died, try not to

Sarah McArthur:

write every column about, you know, this, this thing that I'm,

Sarah McArthur:

I'm I participate in, you know, as who I am, but I also am

Sarah McArthur:

observing, as someone who's constantly observing, you know,

Sarah McArthur:

this, this area of our, you know, of our, of our, our

Sarah McArthur:

humanity. So, a long time not too long ago, but in one of the

Sarah McArthur:

books, I think it was, it's probably coaching for

Sarah McArthur:

leadership. And then again, maybe in work is love made

Sarah McArthur:

visible. You just, I can look back at these older writings,

Sarah McArthur:

and see how, you know, I was thinking about it. You know, I

Sarah McArthur:

was thinking coaching for leadership, I was thinking about

Sarah McArthur:

communication, and how leaders communicate, and, you know,

Sarah McArthur:

should have three important messages, community clarity, you

Sarah McArthur:

know, consistency. And then, you know, the next book a couple of

Sarah McArthur:

years later, you know, now we have Snapchat, and people really

Sarah McArthur:

aren't paying attention. And now, again, even later, just

Sarah McArthur:

just watching the changes in this, this arena, and it just,

Sarah McArthur:

it affects everyone, it's not just me.

Janice Porter:

No, it does. It affects us, though, in different

Janice Porter:

ways, because people of our generation, now we have to learn

Janice Porter:

something new again. And it's, it's a little bit harder or a

Janice Porter:

little bit, you know, less comfortable than for the younger

Janice Porter:

people who, you know, are coming up with it, you know, and so,

Janice Porter:

but then that's what keeps us young, I think, too, is is if we

Janice Porter:

stay with the times, right? And instead of going to because I

Janice Porter:

hear a lot of, it's funny, you say that because I've see, I

Janice Porter:

listened to what you have to say, and what I've read and so

Janice Porter:

on, is like, Okay, you're with the times in a mature way, and

Janice Porter:

I'm leaning in good thing, not not a bad thing. But there are

Janice Porter:

some people who still hang on to the old way of doing things or

Janice Porter:

their the way things were in when they were in their prime,

Janice Porter:

let's say, and you can't you can't sustain that today. Right.

Janice Porter:

Does that making sense?

Sarah McArthur:

Yeah, that Yep, exactly. I agree. It cannot be

Sarah McArthur:

sustained. Just like we can't keep people engaged, who are now

Sarah McArthur:

have a shorter, intense attention span, can't force them

Sarah McArthur:

to stay engaged. No, chasing after them is kind of like non

Sarah McArthur:

stop. That's not the way let's let's let's stop for a second.

Sarah McArthur:

And, you know, just digest this for a moment.

Janice Porter:

Right? Yeah. So it's fascinating, really, to me.

Janice Porter:

So I know that so Marshall Goldsmith is which is a name

Janice Porter:

that I've known over the years as a personal development

Janice Porter:

leader, right on leadership, I suppose as well. He had an he

Janice Porter:

was like, like, like a Tony Robbins. Marshall Goldsmith,

Janice Porter:

Tony Robbins, Jim Rohn. Those people right. He was

Sarah McArthur:

definitely a thought leader and yes,

Sarah McArthur:

definitely, definitely in in that arena, I've worked with

Sarah McArthur:

both. So I worked with Tony Robbins many years ago,

Sarah McArthur:

definitely personal development. My personal development with

Sarah McArthur:

Tony, that's, that's what we worked on. And with Marshall, he

Sarah McArthur:

is an executive coach. So his his focus is working with

Sarah McArthur:

successful leaders to help them become even better for

Sarah McArthur:

themselves, their people and their teams. That's more in the

Sarah McArthur:

organizational business arena.

Janice Porter:

So I guess, you know, based on thinking about

Janice Porter:

leaders today, and them working on themselves to be better

Janice Porter:

leaders, what percentage of people in that stratosphere

Janice Porter:

actually do that? More than you would see it more, you know,

Janice Porter:

average level, like mid level leaders?

Sarah McArthur:

It's a really great question. And that's where

Sarah McArthur:

follow up is so important. Marshall, years ago, I think,

Sarah McArthur:

maybe 15 years ago, wrote an article and this is what his

Sarah McArthur:

coaching is based in. One of the really important aspects of his

Sarah McArthur:

coaching is that he, the article is called Leadership is a

Sarah McArthur:

contact sport. And it's based on a survey of 1000s and 1000s, of

Sarah McArthur:

leaders. And that follow up has everything to do with change. So

Sarah McArthur:

if a leader is going through the executive coaching process, then

Sarah McArthur:

there's the initial steps of, you know, review feedback,

Sarah McArthur:

deciding what to change, working with stakeholders, telling them

Sarah McArthur:

what you're going to change with the code, what the, the client

Sarah McArthur:

wants to change, and then, and then there's follow up. And our

Sarah McArthur:

perception of whether or not somebody changes, has a whole

Sarah McArthur:

lot to do with whether or not we think about it, that person,

Sarah McArthur:

they may change like crazy. And I may not even know because that

Sarah McArthur:

person hasn't said, hey, you know, I said I was gonna stop

Sarah McArthur:

telling you, you were I was going to stop yelling at people

Sarah McArthur:

in meetings. Have you noticed? I've been really working on

Sarah McArthur:

that. If I don't say something, the chances of people noticing

Sarah McArthur:

go down dramatically. Isn't that interesting?

Janice Porter:

That is interesting that because we go

Janice Porter:

back to leaders. It's how you beat how you are not not? What

Janice Porter:

was it?

Sarah McArthur:

It's a matter of how it's been not how to do. So

Sarah McArthur:

that's kind

Janice Porter:

of interesting that you still have to make that

Janice Porter:

connection with your team or your you know, the people that

Janice Porter:

you're leaning

Sarah McArthur:

to, especially if it's if you're if you're

Sarah McArthur:

working on behavioral change. So if I, if you meet me, and you

Sarah McArthur:

think I'm a nice person, then I don't really have too much to

Sarah McArthur:

worry about. But if you meet me, and you think I'm a jerk. And

Sarah McArthur:

then you know, I continue that behavior. And then I want to

Sarah McArthur:

change that behavior. I recognize it. The the you'll

Sarah McArthur:

you're going to go back to your default impression of me. Unless

Sarah McArthur:

you tell me otherwise or show unless i i asked you about it. I

Sarah McArthur:

mean, just even asking you. If you know how I'm doing. Just

Sarah McArthur:

even asking you is huge. Just That step alone, most people

Sarah McArthur:

will go Wow. So really, change isn't so much about me doing it

Sarah McArthur:

all by myself. Change has a lot to do with. That's, that's why I

Sarah McArthur:

always say it's working together towards a bright future change

Sarah McArthur:

has a lot to do with us being in this together.

Janice Porter:

And communicating. Right, which we

Janice Porter:

go back to living

Sarah McArthur:

birds super important.

Janice Porter:

Well, this Sara, we could go on and on. I think I

Janice Porter:

may have to ask you to come back. And I want it to be when

Janice Porter:

the documentary is out because I'm so excited

Sarah McArthur:

to meet you. Thank you so much. If anybody

Sarah McArthur:

wants to know anything about it, you just please please let me

Sarah McArthur:

know. Absolutely.

Janice Porter:

And when this airs, I will put a link to the

Janice Porter:

trailer as well and everything because I'm very excited for you

Janice Porter:

about it looks really fascinating. And just before you

Janice Porter:

go, I that's your main project, I think that you're working on

Janice Porter:

right now. Is it not what else are you working on?

Sarah McArthur:

I would call that's my that is the that is my

Sarah McArthur:

heart project. That's where my heart is.

Janice Porter:

So So yes, so we'll we'll stay tuned for that

Janice Porter:

and And just one little last question for you before, before

Janice Porter:

you go, well, actually two one is I'm really curious do you

Janice Porter:

use? Are you a person that all work and no play? Or do you have

Janice Porter:

fun sometimes too? What do you do when you're not working? Oh,

Janice Porter:

I

Sarah McArthur:

have a lot of fun.

Janice Porter:

What's your most fun thing to do?

Sarah McArthur:

This is an interesting story, and I'll make

Sarah McArthur:

it very quick for you. I like to go so some people like to do

Sarah McArthur:

Yes. Like some people like to be. I like those too. But I

Sarah McArthur:

really like to go so I like to go you know, get in my car, go

Sarah McArthur:

for a drive, go see music go see friends. I like to I just like

Sarah McArthur:

to go go traveling. I was recently in for gone for about a

Sarah McArthur:

month I went to the thinker's 50 event in London. Yes, yes.

Janice Porter:

I have heard about that first through Dorie

Janice Porter:

Clark, who has been a guest on my show. And then Caroline, who

Janice Porter:

you is Carolyn? Carolyn, thank you introduce you. She was

Janice Porter:

there, right?

Sarah McArthur:

Yes. And yes, exactly. And I. And then I took

Sarah McArthur:

myself on a little trip after that to Scotland and went, I've

Sarah McArthur:

been traveling around a little bit. So I have now. I have now

Sarah McArthur:

landed.

Janice Porter:

Oh, that's fantastic. Thank you. And last

Janice Porter:

question, what's your favorite piece of thought, you know,

Janice Porter:

thought leadership to share with my audience.

Sarah McArthur:

So, for me, it comes from the teachings of

Sarah McArthur:

Francis and Alan Mulally. And it's this phrase, our one life

Sarah McArthur:

is our life's work, which is our love made visible.

Janice Porter:

I will say that one more time,

Sarah McArthur:

our life's work. Our one life or one life is our

Sarah McArthur:

life's work. Which is our love. made

Janice Porter:

visible. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you

Janice Porter:

so much for being here. Sarah, there's so much to to dive into

Janice Porter:

more. So I look forward to having you back and seeing the

Janice Porter:

documentary when, when it when it airs. Thank you again for

Janice Porter:

being here. And thank you to my audience. If you like what you

Janice Porter:

heard, please leave a review and go I do encourage you to go and

Janice Porter:

and and dig in and find out some information about Sarah McArthur

Janice Porter:

and Francis hasslein. Because this is going to be defining

Janice Porter:

moments is the name of the the documentary that's coming out.

Janice Porter:

And she was quite some lady. I'll tell you that was quite

Janice Porter:

interesting. So I'm excited for you. So remember to everybody

Janice Porter:

here to stay connected and be remembered