Encore: Experience the Top 5 Episodes of 2023

Hello, and welcome to the countdown to 2024. And I thought we would do something really fun today on the show, which is an encore episode. So I've never done one like this, you'll see that it's longer than any other episode that I've ever put out there. And that is because I am resharing, five of our top episodes from 2023. So I know there has been a lot of growth here on the podcast, we've got a lot of new listeners. And some of you may have not scrolled all the way back to the beginning of the archives to see what is out there. And to hear some of the great episodes that we put out this year and a half. To be honest, it was super hard to choose which episodes to replay because I would really play all of them, I would re listen to all of them, I would go back and have all of the conversations with my guests again. And I've just really loved every single minute of creating this podcast for you this year. So what I decided to do was make some decisions based on statistics.

So in this episode, and we'll put the timestamps below so you don't have to obviously listen to them all in one big go. And you can see like how long each of the episodes are that are being stitched together here. And by we are going to share with you the most downloaded guest episode, the most listened to solo episode. And as our podcast covers different sorts of themes. I wanted to highlight an episode from each of the themes. So one of those is business strategies. If we're going to do a business strategy replay, we have a managing entrepreneurship replay, and an inspirational success story replay.

So let me tell you what each of those out our our most downloaded guest episode was episode 46 I believe it was, which was create marketing that looks good, it feels good and make sale with Haley Ressler. Okay, actually, it was episode number 44. With Hayley, and that one was so good and so tactical. And no wonder it was so well loved by all of you. So the most listened to solo episode was actually way back at the beginning, episode number four, entitled The most powerful thing I ever did to support growing my business. It's all about taking action and learning how to let go of your fears and actually put yourself out there. So absolutely. It is a must listen episode. For our business strategy replay. I am bringing back an awesome show that I did with my guest, Angela Henderson. And that was episode number 39 called double your marketing ROI. And she goes into all kinds of different visibility strategies and collaborations and such to help you really skyrocket your marketing faster. When it comes to managing entrepreneurship. I really loved the episode that I did with Shulamit bear Levertov. And she is the entrepreneurs therapist. And that was episode number 43, which was mental health and entrepreneurship. And that really applies whether or not you're a business owner, you should definitely listen to this one because it's something that we need to navigate on a daily basis. How we are actually experiencing and managing all of the mental load things that are happening to us. I think screen you walk through this crazy thing called life. And as a last replay on core special episode, I have to bring back I know this one wasn't too long ago, but if you haven't listened to it yet, please enjoy this inspirational success story. Episode number 49 redefining success with multimillionaire Keaton Hoskins. I loved that episode, it was very deep. And it also gave this really great perspective of somebody who has quilt, made it and achieved all the things that we probably still have on our vision boards as entrepreneurs at this point, and how the experience of getting there is actually different than we think and what we need to actually focus on instead of just the the goals and the numbers and the money that we want. So I hope you enjoy listening to this little encore performance. And these five episodes from the season of entrepreneur school as you are sipping on your wealthy and Bailey's or your hot chocolate or huddled up by the fire with your Christmas tree or whatever you have going on in your world right now. Enjoy an eye I will see you in 2024.

This is the Entrepreneur School Podcast where we believe you can run a thriving business and still make your family a priority. This show is all about supporting you the emerging or early stage Entrepreneur on your journey from solopreneur. To CEO while wearing all of the other hats in your life. My name is Kelly Sinclair and I'm a brand and marketing strategist who started a business with two kids under 3am, a corporate PR girl turned entrepreneur after I learned the hard way that life is too short to waste doing things that burn you out. On this show, you'll hear inspiring stories from other business owners on their journey, and learn strategies to help you grow a profitable business while making it all fit into the life that you want. Welcome to entrepreneur school.

Hey, hey, Hayley, welcome to entrepreneur school.

Yay. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

I love having guest interviews on the show, especially when we're talking about one motherhood and running a business because you have three very young children. Yes. Yeah. Like transitioning into school and stuff right now. It's crazy. Yes,

Yeah, it's, um, it's been it's been something it's been good. My oldest is very outgoing. So he's been thriving in kindergarten. But, you know, then I also have two younger in daycare. So it's been kind of chaotic in the mornings, like, now people are going to different places, like different schools. So figuring all that out has been, you know, it's been it's been a lot. But now we're a couple months. And then we are getting the routines under our belts. And I think I think we're settling in. But you know, we're also getting into sixth season, so anything's possible at this point.

Oh, man, there's so much just like, what's going to happen tomorrow, and then you make a plan, and then something just goes totally second?

Oh, I know. It's like, every plan I make has to have a caveat or a plan B, because I'm like, I don't know who's gonna get sick when and like, you know, we went to a movie this weekend, and my husband was sick. So I was like, Okay, well, you're staying home. And, but but it was fun. I feel like my kids are starting to get a little bit older. I mean, older, they're almost six, three and seven months. So very young. But like, we can go out and do some more fun things now, like I took my two oldest to a movie. And it was like, it was so great to be able to do something that was also relaxing for me. Because, you know, I find a lot of motherhood, very exhausting, but I love going and seeing a movie. But with young kids, it's just not really something that we get to do very much. So being able to do something like that with them. And something that I really enjoyed as well. It was just it was it was a really great time. So I'm excited to kind of come into this space of motherhood here and there a little bit.

Yeah, it is a game changer when they start like becoming more independent and stuff. But you just shift into different levels of like, Mom, Sherpa, Agnes?

Yes. Oh my god, I Yes, I

live at our community rec center literally have to go there four days a week for gymnastics or hockey practice at this point. And it's like, okay, and this in my life?

Yeah, yeah. Start like doing some things on their own while you just like, get a moment to yourself. It's like, ah, like, okay, I can breathe now. And my seven month old, he is just the happiest little guy, which is great. I've haven't historically had super happy babies. But he is very happy. He's so easy to take around everywhere, like fall asleep, wherever. So he's like us that stereotypical third child just go with the flow, which has been really, really like a wonderful addition to our family. I just love him so much. He's like, just the best baby. So that's been that's been wonderful. Oh,

that's so good. I honestly can't imagine running a business and like you're like, you're into your second business, kind of getting it off the ground with such a young baby. So tell us a little bit about like, what you do and how this is like unfolding for you?

Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. That's a great question. So I have been in the online space since 2016. I actually started with a home improvement blog. And my husband and I had just bought our first house, it needed a lot of fixing up and so I you know, I have a degree in marketing. So I've been very much in the like marketing space for a long time. And I've always just loved the digital aspect of it, I guess. I don't know, I kind of grew up in like boom of the internet and when it was big to have a MySpace profile and all all those things. So I've just loved digital marketing for as long as I guess the internet was became a thing, if you will. Yeah. But I inator Yeah, so I, I got a degree in marketing. I started my first blog in 2016. And then kind of started getting more and more into the online space, started working with another creator in 2019. Like got more experience with like really marketing strategies, funnel strategies, all that good stuff. And in that time I discovered story brand. So I'm you Are you familiar with story brand? Yes. Yeah. I am so obsessed with the story brand framework. So story brand is a company by Donald Miller, I am a story brand certified Guide, which just means that I am able to implement this framework with the with clients and you know, everybody would that I work with. So wanting to becoming a guide is something that I've been wanting to do for years. And just finally, the stars aligned last a little over a year ago, August 2022, what year is it? August 2032. So, finally, it was like, Okay, I think I have the bandwidth to do this now. But I was also pretty newly pregnant at that time. So I was a little bit like, is this the best time to do this? Like, what am I doing, I have two kids, I'm pregnant with my third, I decided to move forward and get certified in December of last year. So I was like, starting I was doing at the end of February. So it was the certification. Well, the it's just like a three day or it's like a I think it was like a four day online. Sort of intense, wasn't too bad on that regard. But I had not technically launched my services yet, I was still in the I was still getting things up and running, I had a full time position at the time as well. And so I was kind of wanting to do that on the side. But then launching my own business in June 2023. So I was really balancing a lot of things when I decided to get certified, but I just I wanted to do it so bad, I had been waiting, like probably three or four years for the time to be right to do it. So the stars align, I was like, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna get certified. So I got certified in December, it was great. I was so excited. I was so jazzed about, you know, everything that I learned to start implementing for clients. And then in January, pregnancy brain hit me full force, I could not like hardly put two sentences together, I was exhausted. And I like wanted so bad to be able to work on my business. But I was so tired. And I finally came up with like the name of my business and like set up a WordPress site. And that was that was it. So, um, I really need my brain went offline from like January until May probably lucky I had the baby, I had him he's wonderful, my little baby boy. I got kind of through those first few months postpartum. And then in May, so about three months postpartum, I also had some just really kind of tragic family stuff that happened and whatnot. So it was just a lot to go through in the spring. And then in May, I was like, Okay, I'm ready, my brain is back online. Let's go. So I started working on like, I started putting some stuff together to launch my business. And then one day in June, I was like, I'm just gonna start following a bunch of people that I know on my new Instagram account, and I didn't really realize that that was going to be the launch of my business. And, um, you know, a bunch of people reach out, they're like, Oh, this is so cool. I didn't know that you were going to be you know, branching out and starting your own marketing services. And I was like, yeah, so that was kind of my messy launch, I anticipating to, for that to be the launch of my business. But then a few people were like, Oh, hey, like, I would love for you to help with my marketing messaging. And I started booking clients. And here we are. So it was, yes, what I'd like to call a messy launch, because I did not have all my systems in place when it happened. And like, I don't know, we just we did it. And it was great. And I kept adding things on and making revisions as I went and balancing that with getting then my, you know, my littlest son to daycare and you know, balancing motherhood, it's been wild, but I guess not maybe quite as well as I thought it would be. I don't know, my husband is wonderful, too. I always have to give him so much credit and so many kudos because he's like, my person and my support person. And he's a wonderful partner to have. So

that's awesome. Okay, let's go back and unpack this for a second. You launch mathy so you had like, you're like, I'm gonna do this, then you're I love the phrase, and my brain went offline. So waited, like, listen to what you need, right? In the time in this season that you were in at that point. And then you were like, Okay, so, you know, tell me what like, like, take me back, because it's been a minute since I launched a business and he's like, when you're thinking about starting, what are all the things and especially if you are already deep in the online space, there's so much influence out there around like what you quote should do in order to launch so tell me like what's going on in your mind as You're thinking about how what how I'm supposed to and what I'm supposed to do here.

Yeah. So I have, I'm kind of like a serial entrepreneur, if you will, like, I will get a really fun business idea. And then just like, come up with all the branding for it, and then like, kill it, it'll end up wanting to do it. So like, I have almost launched a sticker shop, a caramel apple business, like a bunch of really random things. But mostly, I just love creating the marketing and branding for businesses. And then the rest. I'm kind of like MIT. But I knew that this one is one that I was going to have to see through. So to start, I knew that I needed to get everything like legal squared away. So my first step was filing for an LLC for it. So I needed to first come up with the name of my business and the name of my LLC. That is what took me the longest because I'm terrible when it comes to naming things. So I spent that was like, my whole pregnancy was just trying to come up with a name for my business. So I settled on copy, click studio, which I love, I'm so happy with the name that I chose. So I had to file for an LLC, once I got that I had to get an EIN number so that I could, you know, do taxes and stuff through it. And then I needed to find an account. And so those were kind of all the foundations for the business, as well as creating a website and then very much prioritize putting an email list together because I knew that was going to be where, where my business like existed. So I had to do those were very high on my list as well as those Yeah. Oh, getting like a billing software set up so that I could get my people like have a contract signed, have them pay all in one cohesive, easy steps. So and then Instagram because I like hanging out on Instagram the most I wanted that to be where I focused my social presence, because I enjoy hanging out there. And I'm already there a lot. So yeah, those were like those were the foundations of, I might want to say you didn't

do like a big, super splashy today, you're just like, hey, I'm here. And then he started like having one on one conversations with people.

Yeah, and you know, I had tried launching services in the past, the past was probably like 2018 was the last time that I did and I just was not as well connected as I am now. And so having those connections now and having actual people to reach out to and connect with and launch to was a complete game changer. So you know, especially when it comes to visibility, like that is such a core part of launching a business is putting yourself out there and making those connections. Because without that it's really hard to, like get your foot in the door anywhere when people don't know you. Mm hmm.

Yeah, absolutely. So tell us a bit about what you do at copy CLIP STUDIO as far as like turning marketing messaging into something that people resonate with, because this is a really, like, challenging skill for a lot of people. They're just like, I just don't know what to say, I don't know how to talk about what I do. I don't know how to do it in a way that actually connects makes people want to buy from me.

Yes. So this is like my heart's passion, which is kind of hilarious that it's like business marketing. Right, I know, I'm so I, like I said, I started in the online space back in 2018. I tried selling something multiple times. But I always just felt like everything that I touched would not sell. Like even though I love marketing. Now, I hated cooking for the longest time, I felt so uncomfortable selling and I think that's something that resonates with a lot of people, it just feel uncomfortable putting themselves out there asking for money, all of those good things that are actually you know, the core of your business and why we're in business it just to make money. So I you know, really had to work on those selling skills for myself. And that's something that I really found valuable with the story brand framework, because when you're using story based marketing, it doesn't feel nearly as pushy because the whole premise of it is that you're connecting with your customer first, in like making those connections getting on the same page, really kind of diving into the customers problem and the you know, success that they really want to see and then positioning your product as the solution to that problem. So you know, a little I guess a little bit about my business and what I do, I help primarily online businesses really streamline their marketing messaging so that when they go to you know, do social media posts or create a sales page or anything like that, they can create marketing that looks good, feels good and make sales. So that's my my little tagline. Because all of those parts are really important to getting your messaging across and, you know, creating marketing that people actually want to read and not just skim over because you know All of us, if there's a sales page where the scroll is so tiny, you can barely see it and you're scrolling for like, five minutes to get through the sales page, people probably aren't reading that we are all I think the statistic is like 78% of people skim sales pages. So what I do is I help you trimmed down all of that to create a mark, like a whole messaging framework, that story based. So putting your customer first making your customer, the hero of the story, you know, positioning your product as all about them, and how it transforms your customer's life over, like, let me talk about myself, and what I can do for you, and how I can help you like the marketing messaging that I implement is all customer focused. So here's how this product will help you, here's the problem that you're experiencing, here's the transformation that you can experience, you know, by using my product, and then here's the success that you can see.

So, usually, when I meet with clients, we have like a half day strategy session where we dive into the seven parts of a story in relation to their brand. So we can figure out how to kind of weave these elements into a marketing messaging that really resonates with their customers,

right? And then it's different applications like social media versus email, like, how do you use this, it kind of becomes your guide. Right?

Exactly, yeah. So it's like a marketing playbook that we put together. And I create like a one page script that has all of these pieces of the marketing framework in it, and then they can see like, okay, it's really great, because then I like, then you can take that script and say, Okay, I want to write a social media post about the problem that my customers facing, okay, I want to write a social media post or write an email about the, like, success that they're going to see or the aspirational identity that they're going to feel. So, you know, I love it. Because it's like this whole guide for you to use in all different parts of your marketing, and also a bunch of ideas for parts of your marketing messaging that you can talk about in all of your, you know, marketing materials about your product and your brand. Yeah,

so definitely like a, an important piece of that is having a really solid awareness of your ideal client and who they are, where they are, what they're experiencing. And this is something I find people really struggle with, especially when they're like newer into business, and you haven't like worked with too many people yet. And you're having a hard time like, narrowing down what the niche is. So what advice do you have around that, especially for people who are maybe just getting started?

Yes. Oh, my gosh, that's a great question.

I know sorry, to interrupt your your flow there. It just delay caveat like, so don't stop listening, if you aren't just getting started. But sometimes you launch new things as you're growing. So you have a new product, a new service that still requires going through this process again?

Yes, yes, for sure. So I like to think of customers as being on a spectrum. So there are customers that are very ready to buy your product. And there's customers that are several steps behind them that aren't quite ready to buy your product, but they might be ready in three months, six months, a year, etc. So in your marketing material, you at least what I believe is it's it's easiest and most helpful to talk to those people who are ready to buy your product, or maybe at that, like 70 to 100% ready to buy your product, they might just need a little bit more convincing. But when you're using messaging that talks to those people that are very ready to buy your product, you're still including those people that are several steps behind them, because they know that that's where they're gonna want to get to eventually anyway, as well, if that makes sense. So they're going to be like, they're going to get there eventually. And they can see like, oh, yeah, I do see that, I'm going to need this eventually, maybe I don't need it quite yet. But I want to bookmark this for later because that's what I'm going to need when I'm ready, and then they're going to want to stay in your space. So I find with that mentality, it really helps keep keep your marketing messaging focused, while also feeling comfortable, that you're still speaking to those people that are a few steps behind.

That is a really interesting perspective, instead of thinking that you have to actually like, because a lot of people teach the, like customer journey framework going from unaware to most winner, basically. And that you have to like have things that address people at all the places and I'm literally going through an exercise right now trying to figure out well what are they really scared him way back here? And then how do I like take them along with me? And you're saying you kind of don't have to because they as long as you know, their aspirations and they know their aspirations, and you can say, this is how we get those aspirations to, like come true, then they're going to connect the rest of the dots pretty much themselves. abs?

Yes, absolutely. And it really helps like, it helps you focus in as a as an entrepreneur as well, because you don't feel like you have to talk to so many people, you're really just talking to that core, you know, that buyer who's like, right about there. And like you mentioned, all of those people have the same endpoint that they want to go to that like same aspirational identity, they're all having the same problem, they might just be feeling that problem on different levels. You know, like some, like, when it comes to visibility, some people might be in those beginning stages. And they know, they're going to need to focus on visibility in the next three, three to six months. But that's not a core focus quite yet. Like me, when I was just launching my business, like, I know that I need to focus on visibility at some point, but like, I still have to get my LLC created, and I need to get my software set up and like all of that stuff, you know, but I'll get there eventually. So it really helps everybody, you know, feel like resonate with what you're talking about.

Yeah, that feels a little, like less pressure to as for you, if you're if you're like narrowing the scope, domain specific because we know that the more specific you can be with your copy with your messaging, the more it's going to connect with people.

Yes, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So once I kind of figured that out, it really helps my clients as well, because like you said, it takes less pressure off. And you know, you're really focusing on the end end result, and the end result that you're gonna provide them versus focusing so much on, like, all of these different pain points, you know, with story brand we teach, and what I work on with my clients is focusing on one cohesive problem solution, instead of throwing so many problems and so many solutions at your customer. Because, you know, as CEO of storebrand, Donald Miller says, If you confuse you lose, so if you're putting too much out there in your marketing material, you're going to lose your customers. So really, for sales pages, emails, like any piece of marketing collateral that I'm working on, I try and keep it as streamlined and focused as possible without branching off on like, so you're feeling this, like, let's talk about that. And now I know that you're also feeling this, let's talk about that. And then there's this other thing that you've probably experienced, and like, that really stinks. And so you know, it's just like, it becomes so chaotic. And when people think that their marketing material is feeling really chaotic, and all over the place, it's because it is and they're probably talking about too many things at once. So, yeah, it's, it's hard, because you know, so many entrepreneurs are passionate about so many things. And you're like any course program, whatever probably does help with a lot of different pain points. But if you throw all those pain points at your customer, they're gonna get really overwhelmed and not be as likely to convert. So keeping it streamlined I've seen over and over again, keeping it streamlined. And keeping it focused, really helps your customers pay attention and actually listen and want to buy what you have to sell them.

So it's kind of like shining all the lights on one main pain and solution to just like, really get them to understand that this is what I need. And then that whole concept of like this, sell them what they want, give them what they need, all of the rest can come in, in the delivery of whatever you're actually offering.

Absolutely, yeah. And that's where it comes to, again, where you're talking about the like customer spectrum earlier, focusing on that one aspirational identity, like this is the core thing that you want. And this is like the biggest desire that you have, let's focus on getting you there, all the other pieces are going to fall into place, you know, and that's kind of where your framework comes in. Like, here's the steps that you need to see. And part of the story brand framework is having a three step plan to help them see success. So I'm talking about about what that you know, easy to follow plan is because when someone has a problem, they just want like an easy. Give me a plan. Help me Help me understand what I need to do. And it's like, step one, you join my course step two, I mean, it would be not exactly this, but like the 700 course step to implement the strategies. Step three, become the aspirational identity that we're talking about and you want to you want to become and so they're like, oh, that's what I have to do. Okay, like, I want to buy this course and

Okay, can you workshop this with me for the sake of having an example because I think that a lot of the time, we and myself included, so I'm gonna give you my own like clients aspirational identity. I think it's sometimes very broad. Right? Yeah, we're an entrepreneur, their aspirational identity to like, get clients and run a successful business. Well, how do you what do you go from there? How do you narrow that down get more specific or do you need to?

Well, you can so what so I would then ask you or why do they want to get more clients? I mean, they want a successful business. But if we can, if I can ask you why, like, what's, what's another reasoning? Why behind that?

Well for the flexibility and freedom that comes with being an entrepreneur, especially when you're a parent intimate, because he can practice that for

Yes, for sure. So to piggyback off of that, one question I really like asking is, when your customer is laying in bed at night, and they can't sleep, what is like, what are they thinking about? Like, what is keeping them up at night in relation to getting clients and running a successful business?

In relation to that? Well, I feel like it's like, it's the outcome. It's the money like, I need to make money, or my business or my family.

Yeah. So thinking through that, then. So like, Are you thinking of this in terms of like, narrowing down your core messaging?

I feel like it's so vanilla to be like, you want to grow a business? This is the way to grow a business. Like, obviously, there's a million ways it could be like, well, you need to get better at marketing messaging, you need better copy, you need to have a website, you need visibility, you need, like, you need a financial plan, like it could be any number of things.

So what would you say it is then about your program that differentiates it from from other programs? Or like, what's the core thing that you teach in your program that helps them see success?

The skill set to put themselves out there get visible become more competent and clear.

Okay, so then with that, like, the problem there then might be Would you say it's like, maybe in their confidence or something like that?

Yeah. Yeah, like, because even as you were saying earlier, right. When we start a business, we're like, oh, we just we don't really know how to put ourselves out there. We feel nervous about like, being too salesy. It's uncomfortable to ask people to give us money for things. Mm hmm.

So what I would do with that, then is to add, like some spice to your marketing and not feel so like the Neela, and all of that, I like thinking of a specific moment that your customer is experiencing. So like, if they are lacking the confidence and putting themselves out there saying something like, do your palms feel sweaty when you think of, like pitching yourself to to your like, dream collaboration or something like that? Or like, Ooh, yes. So with story brand, this is the idea of opening a story loop. So when we hear the start of a story, we feel like we need to finish it. So what's the story that you can tell that resonates with them that they have experienced or can see themselves experiencing that your course helps them helps them overcome? So I would start the story with something very visual, something that they can resonate with. So yeah, like, do your palms feel sweaty? Do you, like all of those things that you would think about in lacking confidence when it comes to get into comes to collaborating, and that's something that's going to hook their attention, so narrowing it down? More. So you said the aspirational identity can be very broad, they want to get clients and run a successful business so that they can have flexibility and freedom. So I when I work with clients, in that like half day strategy session, we spend a long time really nit like, drilling down deep into what the core problem is. Because yeah, everybody wants to be successful. Everybody wants to get clients, but like, what's keeping them up at night? What does your customer deserve? So you said they need to, they need to make money, but like in terms even like beyond that, like they need their name to get out there. They need like the assets to deliver to like, you know, a probably a media package or something like that. They probably like what are they feeling or they're probably feeling overwhelmed by all of this nervous about putting, like, maybe being putting themselves out there and getting rejected, I'm sure fear of rejection is a huge thing that like your your students would experience. So then once we can, like, get all of those and really drill down like deeper and deeper than that makes your marketing messaging feel a lot more pointed to like so that we can like talk about then the success.

I see that because you could then be your your more like exposing a deeper cause of a problem that they may not be aware of. And when you point that out, they're like, oh,

that Yeah, yep. Yeah, I need that now. Yes. Yes, and then, you know, I'm like what they call an impasse. So I'm very much like feel other people's feelings. So I'm like, let's feel all of the things and let's talk about whatever your students are feeling. And then put all of that in your marketing material. Because, you know, when, when you can say, Hey, I know what it's like to feel scared to pitch or whatever it is. They're like, Oh, my gosh, she gets me. Oh, yeah. I cannot decide

that hole like, so you got up the courage to take yourself to the networking event. But now you have to go find a seat. And who are you going to talk to? And what are you even going to say? When somebody asks you what you do?

Like that is like, I as like, outgoing. As I seem, networking events are the bane of my existence. Like I like hands shaking, like sitting in the car, wondering if I shouldn't even go in or not. Right,

right. You're like, what? How late is too late to be casually late.

Right? Yes. And then I walk in, and I'm like, sweating. And I'm like, Can people see that? I'm sweating? And like I What's my name and

the bar and?

Right, exactly, yeah, that's. So you probably need your course over here.

out everybody. This is coming on my sales page. Dude. That was super helpful. I think for anybody to ask, like, all those questions that you were just asking me, those are the questions that people need to be able to answer, or their to be able to unlock their own marketing messaging and get more clear about their ideal clients experience, because we have to put everything into that perspective. Yes, I think that is the main shift that I feel like we take away from this conversation is instead of, hey, I can do this, that I could do that, and it's going to help you. It's like, Would you like this? This is what you're experiencing? Like, in you, as a result of just even saying that to them? They become they feel that seen? Heard? Understood?

Yes. Yes, exactly. Yeah. When you can connect with your customer on that level, versus just putting information out at them. Like, hey, like, you need clients. It's like, Yeah, I do need clients, but like, everybody is saying that I need clients. But when you can really like talk about an experience that they've had, that's when they're going to start listening. So you know, when putting that into practice, that is, you know, looking at the headlines on your sales page, are those headlines really grabbing their attention with those feelings that they're feeling with the experiencing, the experiences that they've had, on your social media, leading with those things that are going to help them connect to you as a person and not just a deliverable that you are putting out there?

We're her Oh, yeah, this is so good. Okay, Hayley, is there any like final words of advice that we didn't get to that you want to make sure that people hear before we sign out?

I think, when in doubt, keep your marketing concise. I think. At the end of the day, people, all of us entrepreneurs tend to ramble. I mean, you started your business for a reason. You're so passionate about the thing that it is that you want to share. But you know, putting your passion out there can feel like a firehose, to your customer sometimes. So when in doubt, dial it back, like keep it simple, keep it streamlined, use lots of like whitespace, and all that good stuff to try and not biros, your customer with marketing material. So you know, keep it short. Keep it I feel like that should be like a sign off, keep it short. Keep it snappy.

No, write it down. This is the quote that goes with it

But keep it clear and concise instead of you know, to flowery or to worrying about being too catchy. I am rarely like really catchy and marketing. I'm very clear and concise because people have an easier time understanding that versus trying to figure out what you are getting across by being catchy. So when in doubt, keep it clear and concise. And, you know, try not to be too flowery because that's actually going to lose people.

Totally so good. Okay, amazing. Please let us know where we can find you. And I believe that you have a lovely gift that we'll put in the shownotes links as well.

Yes, so I love to hang out on Instagram. I am at copyclick.co So please come find me send me a message. And then yes, I also have a wonderful download five marketing mistakes that might be ruining your sales. So you can grab that ad copyclick.co/podcasts and grab it from their free download and then I send an email every Tuesday with great marketing tips that you We can implement right away. So, yes, come hang out with me. I nice and I have been.

Thank you so much for being here, Hayley.

Yeah, thank you, Kelly.

Hey, I hope that you found the seven levels deep exercise super powerful. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, please hit pause right now go back and listen to episode number three, where I walk you through Discovering your why this is a critical part of getting yourself to take action. And it is one of the most important pieces of your brand that gives you direction and clarity and motivation to make the impact that you are meant to make in this world. So I hope you feel incredibly inspired and aligned with your mission and your why right now. Now over the last few episodes, I've been sharing about how my five plus years as an entrepreneur have proven that the key to success is taking messy action. And this is part of a broader framework that I have all around momentum, because we know we have to continue doing the thing for however long it's going to take to get to wherever we want to go or however long we want to continue being in this entrepreneurial journey. It could be forever, right? So how do you maintain that momentum? Along the way, I like to break it down as having three parts. So part number one is feeling connected. This is what you did with the seven levels deep exercise in the last episode. Number two is do the thing. So this is the actions that you take every day towards reaching your goals, get results, that's number three, this is the outcome of taking action, right. So when you do something, something is going to happen. Now, results come in all kinds of packages. And it might be something like getting a client or making a certain amount of money, it might be getting on a podcast or making a new connection. But it might also be learning a lesson from something that you tried that didn't work, like a failed launch, or a sales call that turns into a loss lead, or a client not actually signing up after they said they were going to. While I can't guarantee what your results will be, I can guarantee that when you take an action, you will get results. And when you keep taking action, you're eventually going to get to that ultimate result that you want, which is being able to run a business that you love that makes an impact and makes you money, while also raising a family and spending quality time with your kids. Being an intentional parent, and maybe even going on the dream vacations, all of the things. I know that this is possible because this is my reality now. And I'm like in shock actually to say this because at the time I'm recording this episode, I'm like a couple of weeks away from taking my entire family to Hawaii. We're taking the kids we're taking our parents, my in laws, siblings, everyone is going there's like 11 of us, it's crazy. And I have also this year been able to take my kids out of childcare, and only work while they're in school, basically, so I can drive them around to their gymnastics and dance and hockey practices. And in the course of my business, I have also hired a team won awards for my work and scaled my business to over six figures. But you might not believe that this is possible for you yet. And you might be feeling fired up a little bit about taking action now. But you know that you tend to lose that momentum and consistency pretty quickly. And that might be true, especially if you're the only one holding yourself accountable, right? If you're doing it all on your own. And if you don't have a community around you. Joining communities has been one of the most powerful things I have ever done to grow my business. And you need a community of women who are dealing with the same things as you that know the struggles of trying to get your kids ready for school, then scrambling to create some social media content before it's time to pick them up again. You need women who know what it's like to wake up in the morning exhausted after being up with a baby or sick kids through the night and then still need to do client work. You need moms who valuating pizza with their family on the couch while watching the movie every Friday, after a week full of zoom calls and networking events and a million emails that they have to respond to. And women who have similar values of building an empire and also making time to go camping with their families. Now, I always knew that I wanted to go back to work even after enjoying a wonderful long maternity leaves here in Canada. I never felt the desire to be a stay at home mom. I knew that I needed to use my brain and the skills that I had up in a way that made me feel like I was doing something for myself so that I could fulfill me in a different way. And I do remember going back to work after having my first daughter, and feeling so different. All of a sudden, this job had to mean more, it had to do more for me, because I was now sacrificing all this time with my baby in order to be there. So my priorities had changed. And they were tested when my mom had that seizure, and I had to choose whether to leave my job and be with her or stay working towards the career goals that I had. And I honestly don't know how long it would have taken for me to realize how out of alignment, I actually was being in that job. If I didn't have this massive turning point, if I didn't have this sign from the universe, I don't know how long I would have continued to drag my kids out of bed at 6am. And basically run on coffee all day, just to collect a paycheck. But that doesn't have to be you. You get to choose what matters most in your life, and how you want to spend your time. And in fact, you've already done the hardest part, deciding to start your own business has to be one of the bravest things that you can do. And whether you've already left your job or told him you're not coming back, or have been just feeling this pull on your heart, to to want to start doing your own thing. I want you to know that you can do hard things. You've already done so many hard things in your life that you probably don't even give yourself credit for. Maybe it's that dropping your kids off at daycare, crying, wedding, YOUR job getting laid off, losing a loved one moving to a new city, or just say you physically carried a baby in your body for nine freakin months. Okay, that's hard. I would be lying if I told you that being an entrepreneur is not hard. It's quite the opposite. In fact, I started this podcast to talk about the journey to share the challenges in real life Like honestly, openly vulnerably and also give you tools and resources to help you navigate through it. And that's also why I started the entrepreneur school community. And that's a place where you can come together with other women who have big dreams for what they want to do in their business. But they also want to sign up early so they can go play with their kids. It's where we provide accountability, support, encouragement and connections. We have weekly group calls where we identify the next myth the action that you need to take and then give you time to do it during our call. We also have exclusive events and training to help you learn marketing strategies, mindset tips, time management, and all of the pieces of growing a business while raising a family. And this is your official invitation to join us. Visit us at entrepreneurschool.ca and click on community to get started today. Thanks for being here. I can't wait to chat again with you soon.

Welcome, welcome, Angela to entrepreneur school. I'm really excited to talk to you about your super cool visibility strategies that are working in your business today.

Yes, I'm so excited to be here. I felt like Canadian. I know when we were talking and reaching out. I almost fell over I obviously live in Australia now but you're very close to my hometown back in Canada. So I was like so excited when I woke up here in Australia this morning knowing I got to speak with a fellow Canadian so pumped to be here.

Exactly. And we're having like the opposite side of the world conversations about the weather and how like, summer's over Canada. They're just about to get really nice over and Australia to have jealous.

Yes, I know. But I do miss the summer like I mean, I missed the winters back home like waking up on Christmas Day. And you've got like the stillness on the roads and you've got the snow and the icicles hanging. So those that other than that, like I'm a hammer quite happy to still be on the beach here in Australia.

Yeah, I've never had a beach Christmas. I'm glad to say I just can't wrap my head around it still at this stage of my life. So maybe one day I don't know.

One day you can come over we'll host you all they do is eat like shrimp and they drink beer and they go to the beach and do you might have like a hot dog. It's a very different type scenario. No, there's no gravy. There's no mashed potatoes. There's no jerky it's still very odd for me to have Christmas in Australia.

No 27 course meal.

No, no, not at all.

Okay, awesome. Well love like first of all, I actually have to say that this is one of the great things and then we're gonna have to kind of unpack and talk about like, connections and collaborations as part of our conversation today because, like the internet It allows us to reach out to people all over the place. So it's so amazing that I can connect with you on the other side of the world that we can have this conversation and bring it to anybody who's listening from all over the world as well, which I absolutely love. So okay, so let's start with visibility strategies because like I said to you, before we started recording, I'm a visibility strategist, communications marketing has been my game for the last 15 years. And the thing that bothers me the most is people kind of touting the this is the way to do it kind of works when there's truly so many different approaches that work. So can you like, add to that contextualize with what you were telling me? Before we started recording?

Yeah, absolutely. In my experience of being in business, I've personally found for me that there's only three ways to gain visibility. And when I made three ways, there's three main headers is what I'm talking about. Header. Number one is that organic visibility strategy where you are showing up on social media, like having a post, you're having to create a lot of content, etc. It could also be that you might host your own podcast, you and I both have our own podcast, it could be that you host your own YouTube channel, it could be that you're on Tik Tok, whatever it is organically. But what I found organic works, but it's definitely a long term strategy, you're not going to see immediate wins right off the bat. Typically, in my experience, there's always the 1% rule. But typically, it takes longer. And what you're doing is you're exchanging time, right for conversion. And so that works. And I believe we all should have a little bit of organic sprinkled in here and there. The next is partnerships. Partnerships doesn't take as long to grow. But what you do, you're exchanging time and energy, because you really have to build these mutual relationships with each other. Because you can't just be like, like, I couldn't have just emailed you and be like, hey, Kelly, get me on your show. That wouldn't have worked, you would have been Who is this lady? What is she doing? We had a, we went back and forth on Instagram, we had conversations, we got to know each other, and then you invited me onto the podcast, right? So it's you're exchanging time and energy, because you really have to nurture and value those relationships that you're building. But partnerships can be things like doing an email swap, a podcast swap, it could also be things like a giveaway together. For example, it could be there's like a million different ways to skin a cat. All right. But partnerships, it's you're utilizing their audience normally, and they're utilizing yours in order to get visible. And then obviously, there's paid and paid is really great. But then you're exchanging money. And not everyone has money when they first start off in business to be having a nice lucrative budget for marketing. But there's so many ways there you've got, obviously Facebook ads, Pinterest, ads, billboards, if you still want to do that magazines if it still works for you. But the other thing there too. And another big thing that we've been working on, which we can talk more later about is paid media paid sponsorship. And so if there's people that you don't collaborate with in the partnership, heading, you could then go and pay someone to get on their email, pay someone to put you in front of their social media. And that's also another tactic that we've been using this year. So in my perception of business is that there's those three ways organic visibility, partnership, visibility, paid visibility. And when you infuse all of those together, what you kind of have is this thing, what they call in the online space like that. omnipresence, people will start saying, I see you everywhere, even though you might not be everywhere. Does that make sense? Like I saw you on this podcast, I saw you doing a masterclass, I saw you over here. And what happens is you're sprinkling digital breadcrumbs all over of what you are. And those breadcrumbs will eventually make a cookie precise. And then that's when you start to see the conversion. So yeah, I encourage people to think about where are they infusing organic partnerships, or paid visibility strategies into their business? Yes,

I love that, and especially what you were saying about having a combination of each of those things as you can, because that's gonna get you in front of different audiences and on different platforms where different people are seeing you, when they're experiencing their content in a variety of ways, right, like thinking about modally you they're like, I use Instagram, I listen to podcasts. I like to go to events. So if you're at all of those things, I'm going to see your faith all the time.

What I would say though, is be mindful like we you in our disk, given some examples. If you're listening out there, don't think please don't think that you now need to go and do all those things. vism. Creating a visibility strategy is really, really important that it is in alignment with you. First of all, I hate LinkedIn, I would rather gouge my frickin eyeballs out then be over there that someone might be like, but I saw you on LinkedIn. Okay, we use a tool called Agora Pulse. And whatever we post on Instagram and Facebook where I like to be, you can tick the box for it to go to LinkedIn. So we tick the box for it to just get posted there. So something's getting posted. But we're not we don't have an active LinkedIn strategy. All right. And so I don't I don't want to go to that. platform because that like I said, I'd rather gouge my eyes out. But I like showing up on Instagram because it's light. And it's easy. I like showing up on Facebook, it's light and easy. I like to podcast, it's light and easy. Do things that are in alignment and feel light and easy for you and don't drag you down. Because energy is everything. Vibration is everything. And if you, if I showed up on LinkedIn, people would know I don't even want to be there. So I'm not going to attract the right people. And that again, you don't have to do everything. And so I just I want to cave you that because a lot of people will be like, Oh, I'm going to start podcasting. Just go study to channel know, figure out what lights you up. And then the second thing is, make sure that your ideal client and audience is on that platform. So if you're starting a podcast, for example, and your ideal audience, let's say, just happens to be janitors. All right, and they don't listen to podcasts, because they're busy doing whatever, that's probably, you can still do a podcast because it lights you up. But understand your ROI Return on Investment isn't going to be the same if your ideal audience is, say business owners, and they're consuming podcasts all the time. So I just wanted to say that because I get that a lot. Well just go and do all these things. No, no, stop overcomplicating your business and do more of what's in alignment with you. And choose those organic partnerships are paid. And you will see things accelerate with ease and with flow.

Oh, I 100% and modeling so much over here. Because yes, we can so easily get ourselves overwhelmed, right with the idea like, Okay, now because there's 97 different social media platforms and a new one popping up every other day. And I'm supposed to use video, and I'm supposed to be on my stories all the time. And I'm supposed to tag people. And he's like, What is all of this? And then what happens is you get like frozen in overthrow. Yes, sir. rallis his right, and then you're not actually doing any of the things to put yourself out there and get the visibility. So what advice do you have for people who are trying to figure out kind of what way to go first?

I think it's just important to like, think about like, how we where, if you if you didn't have a business? Where are you showing up? Are you listening to podcasts? Do you mean about parenting or health? Are you already on Facebook, in different Facebook groups? And that I was like, go back to what you already know, sometimes I'm not saying don't learn a new trick, do you mean, but go back to what you already know. Because you are talking very clearly Kelly about that state of overwhelm. And that paralysis, you won't even know where to start. When I first started out in my consulting business, I actually had one of Australia's leading econ businesses before I started off, so I kind of dabbled on things. But when I started the consulting business, I started just with Instagram, and a face and Facebook. That's all I had. And I did that really, really well for the first year. Because the thing is, is those platforms expected to do different things from a strategic point of view. So I had to learn how to really leverage Facebook in my Facebook group, and I didn't really learn what did Instagram want me to do that was before the main reels and video content was very big. And then what we did is that I brought on the podcast. And then I figured out how to double down on the podcast and what I needed to do, how I needed to repurpose it, etc. Then we brought on on ads. And then like we brought on Facebook ads, for example. And then we brought on Pinterest ads a year after that it didn't happen all at once. So I encourage you to choose one or two visibility strategies that are going to light you up. And it feels easy with execute those first before you start layering that others because if not, you're literally that saying you're throwing spaghetti at a wall, that's what you're doing. Each strategy is different. LinkedIn wants you to do something different to meet their algorithm. Tick tock wants you to do something different to meet their algorithm, even with SEO is another search engine optimization is another visibility strategy that you can do organically are paid. But the reality of it is is you have to meet the needs of what Google wants you to do. How do you choose a keyword? How do you put it on your h1 and h2 headers, meta descriptions, etc. So choose one or two Max, learn the strategy for those platforms to get the biggest return on investment? And then and only then if you want to add something else?

Oh, yes, I human again, completely in agreement that it's a stacking approach, right, where you're looking at over time as you actually get some feedback, get some momentum, get some results from what you're doing. So what do you look at when it comes to that ROI piece in terms of figuring out what is actually effective?

So I'll look at Google Analytics, for example. So I will go into Google analytics on the back and I'm like computer every month and my team will run a report for me and we'll look at things like how much traffic do we have? What pages are they landing on? Like, like what is it that they're doing? We also measure discovery calls, how many discovery calls are we getting? But on those, when people go to the discovery call, we're able to measure it even better, because we'll ask where did you hear about us? And so and we give them SEO? Like, do you find us on Google was another pod? Like, how did you find us. And then when we onboard a client, we'll ask them again, how they found us, because sometimes people will just say, they found us one way, but really, they found us another way. And that's so that's what we do. And what we've found is referrals is always our number one conversion 100%. Because people were talking about this before we press record, people know like, and trust you already there quicker to conversion than a cold audit, like a cold person. podcast for us is set as a close second. And our third is our SEO. So we double down on those efforts, for example. Now, there's a thing called and I was just pulling it up, just so that I made sure that I said it correctly. There's the Pareto principle. And I thought I could always have to look at the name of it, because I always mess it up. But the Pareto principle states that roughly 80% of our outcomes come from 20% of our efforts. So if you think about business, for example, that it suggests that a significant portion, so around 80% of our business revenue, or success is generated by a relatively a small fraction of its activities or products. So what I see a lot of people do is they'll then have 80 Different things that they're offering to their clients. Again, they're on 80 different platforms, but you only need to be looking at what's the 20% of activities, it's actually generating you the 80% of income and double down on that. So like I said, We double down on podcast, we double down on collaborations, we double down on SEO. That's it. Because that's where we know and we've tested many things, being on Instagram, Instagram stories will work well for me. But if you were to go to my Instagram account now, other than just posting our weekly podcast, so that I create zero fresh content on that platform, whereas I would use to spend probably four hours a month writing creating all this juicy content didn't I mean, it just doesn't get the leverage and whatever anymore, but stories do. So it's easy for me to do a story, but I'm not going to go and create written content for Instagram anymore. It doesn't make sense. So what we have done since February this year, is we now do instead of one podcast per week, we now do two podcasts per week. So I quit to say how I bought my time back, I quit writing those four hours of Instagram posts per month. And I now do an extra hour of podcasting a week, right, which is still equals four hours a month of content. But I'm doubling downwards given me maximum results. Mm hmm.

Yep. I love that. And that's so smart to you. Because we can sometimes just go like, I think I need to do this, or I think I need to do that. And then we forget about checking if it's working. So can you give a little context, though, to sort of if you think there's a sweet spot for the amount of time that you need to spend on one particular tactic, like, one thing or whatnot before you, you know, toss in the towel, like I know, I'm sure that you posted on Instagram for more than two months before you decided to not post on Instagram anymore?

Well, I think there's two things that I'll talk about. One is that question that you just asked me? How long do I keep doing something? But then remind me because I have ADHD that the next thing is I did a summit last year where I brought on like a top YouTube or top Instagram or top podcast. Well, I did the podcasting, Facebook ads Google Ads person, and we had this debate amongst each other about things. So remind me to talk about that. But the first thing is is in podcasting, most people quit podcasting between episodes, seven and 10 episodes. Yeah, so when I started podcasting, knowing that statistic, I paid up front for a half year of podcasting editing team. And I thought if I did one episode per week, for 26 weeks, I've made surpassed the goal of what the average podcaster is. And in six months, I'll generally be able to start looking at whether or not this is viable for me, then to starting a podcast you need to be very clear about but what is your goal? Is your goal or discovery calls? Or is your goal creating connections with other people for long term collaborations? What is your goal? My goal was both of those things. So I've already reached my goal of having amazing people speak on my podcasts for half a year. That was phenomenal. But I didn't start seeing higher conversions from discovery calls to clients till about the four month mark. And even now because when people work with me it's a minimum of $500 per month for one of our programs is we know because it's a more higher ticket program per se, that it typically takes them listen the podcast between four to six months before they'll convert with me so I have to know that there's a longer runway. But for me, I gave it six months for podcasting, because I knew I could see short term and long term data. Instagram, I definitely mean I've been on Instagram, gosh, for years, dude, I mean, but it's only been recently when they started to make all these changes with reels and video content, written content, I don't want to do rails, and I don't want to have to do video content. It's just not what I like to do. I don't want to do it. It doesn't feel like I feel like I'm gonna have better lighting and that I've got to be showered and whatever I can, like I literally rolled out of bed showed up to this podcast, I'm in my slippers on May the hoodie and unenroll shorts do I mean? Like, I can shut the camera off? Right? So doing Instagram Stories is easy, right? But I wasn't going to do what Instagram wants me to do with their algorithm with video content. So I was like, why keep slogging a dead horse do the mean if I'm not gonna do what Instagram wants. Tick tock, same thing. It's video content. I don't want to do video content. LinkedIn, you get spammed, as far as I'm concerned in a million different ways. That's how I feel about it. So for me, it was like podcasting six months, Instagram, I've been on there for a long time, but then reassessed with a chart, it started to change algorithm. And my Facebook group we still use, but it is one of the decisions that will make by the end of the year, whether or not it's worth our ROI anymore. And whether or not even though there's 8000 people in that group, and it's quite active, whether or not we'll shut it down and free up space to potentially then do three episodes on the podcast for a week. So yeah, so I hope that helps to explain a little bit.

Exactly. I love that that's such good context, right for people to think about, like, how long will I try something it's and I always think that this is all like, you know, going to the gym when your goal is just to be healthier, right? That you're not going to be healthier by doing 10 Push Ups one time, you're going to have to continue to do it and build upon it and then change your exercises and immune odoi happening and all of that. So, so perfect. So tell me about the debate on the summit.

Yeah, so the debate because obviously that's what everyone says, What platforms should they be on? So it was Justin Brown, and I Justin's top, like YouTube, and it was me around podcasting. So should it be podcasts or YouTube? It was Instagram vs. Tik Tok. And then it was Google Ads versus Facebook ads. And there's just this very fun banter. And what we decided is, every platform is perfectly perfect. Depending on what you want to do, there was no wrong or right platform. The other interesting thing that came out of the debate was when we all because we're all doubling down on each of those platforms and not going and doing a million different things is on average, all of us are spending about two hours per week on our particular platform. So because we understand that, so podcasting is my big thing. So I'm spending time creating the questions, curating guests, and I mean, doing whenever was my team, Justin is doing like the he produces one good video a week, but it's a really highly SEO optimized high quality video planning whatever, say move with Facebook ads, Google ads, it's like hi, didn't we plan and thought, and then with Brooke, for example, a big Instagram person over here in Australia, she's spending so much time on DMing, right back and forth and making sure she's using the platform correctly. Same thing with tick tock. So it was fascinating that all of us are pretty much spot on hour and 45 to two hours, 15 minutes on each platform. So again, the importance of choosing a platform and doing it well was demonstrated across all those platforms for each of us, you know, so whether you're trying to get if you're starting out, and you're only doing 20 minutes on Instagram, 15 minutes on Facebook, 10 minutes on YouTube, you're not going to get the same volume and push because you're spreading yourself thin. And you're again, not doubling down on those strategies that are needed for each of the platforms. So it was still about two hours on average for each of us to produce all those platforms and get a return on investment by producing good quality content.

That makes so much sense. It's like, can you focus on doing one thing really, really well to get it working for you. Like make that your priority, especially before thinking about expanding into all of the realm of all other places that you can be online. And

I know for me, like at time of recording with you today, tomorrow will be my 300th episode on the podcast and grass. And it's it's one of those things where like, it's the one thing that I had been consistent on one podcast has dropped every week for almost five years, and now we're doubling to two right? But it's paying off. I pretty much I've never had someone tell me no, they wouldn't come on my podcast. So I can pretty much reach out to anyone now because they're like, I've got credibility. I've got authority, I've got trust, so like well, she's been doing this for five years. There's gotta be something behind so the opportunities that come to me are endless. Also, because I've have threaded episodes like I was telling you before I've been to like over probably close to 200 podcasts as a guest because I can either do a guest swap with people, or people are gonna like, Oh, she's got credibility from her own podcast, she must know how to speak on a podcast. So therefore we'll bring her on. But also speaking engagements have come from this. I remember I was at Social Media Marketing World in San Diego before COVID. And one of the things that might sales know the owner of social media marketing said was when he was looking for speakers for upcoming years was, if I have to choose between someone that has a podcast and someone doesn't, I'll choose the person with the podcast, because I know they're using their voice, it might, they might not be a polished speaker, but there'll be more polished and someone who's not using their voice every single week. So again, it's not just about getting a new client on a booking call. It was for me thinking bigger picture about how I leverage this asset for short term and long term growth.

And one thing I want to pick up in there, can you speak to the power or like the role you see in consistency?

Yeah, listen, you're talking to someone who has Florida ADHD. And so I can come and sit at my desk with a game plan. And that should changes at four times in one minutes. All right. However, podcast is the one thing that I've been consistent on now I'm can tell you, I used to be able to what I was doing one episode per week, I could have like 1215 20 episodes batched It was phenomenal. But now that I'm doing two podcasts a week, I'm like scrounging most days doing to me to make sure my team have what I want. But the power is there. But for me, Cal, it's just like, the consistency has been huge. It hasn't been easy, but it's paid off. But again, I've chosen one. So there's two consistent things that I typically do in my business, that in my weekly newsletter, I think I've missed in two mean 13 or 16 years of being in business. I've probably missed 10 weekly newsletters like I could probably count on our hands dinner me and how many I've missed podcasting. I've never missed any when we transition from it used to be called the the business and life conversations show with Angela Henderson. We rebranded in February this year to the Angela Henderson Online Business Show. When we did that I was advised by my podcast crew to give it one week to lay dormant so that when we relaunched it helps us get in the church quicker. Because it looks like it's a new podcast, right? Like because it laid dormant. So I didn't miss it on purpose. I missed it strategically, gentlemen, for the launch of the next one. So yet newsletters and podcasts consistent, it's not always easy. But the rewards have paid off. But I'm also only focusing on two things, not a million things.

Oh, yeah. Cuz imagine trying to be considered like being consistent as you've just acknowledged, it's challenging as it was being considered 10 different ways you're promoting yourself and things that you're doing is basically impossible. So yeah, so let's not go there. I think that this whole episode has been permission to choose what excites you, and what lights you up, make sure that you stick to it for a while if I can summarize for you. And then make sure to look at the impact that it's having. Is it helping you actually reach your goals?

100%? Because if it's not, then why are you doing it? You know, I hear this people all the time, like, I've got all I have to do it this way. But why? Who told you you have to do it that way. But that's what I read. And that's why I believe like your business plan can be cookie cutter. It has to meet you your needs. Because when I work with businesses, for example, I don't people just assume that a business coach just looks at strategy. Yes, I look at strategy. Yes, I create a business plan. Yes, I give you accountability. But I also look at your health, I look at your mental health, your spiritual health, your physical health. I also look at wealth, your personal wealth, your business, wealth, generational wealth. And I also look at relationships, your relationship to yourself, your relationship to friends and family and your relationships to community. And the reason why I do that is as an ex mental health clinician of 15 years where I used to diagnose people with schizophrenia, bipolar, depression, anxiety, is you can't diagnose someone with the diagnosis unless all symptoms are in all areas of life. So business has to be the same way you cannot go because someone told you to do it this way or that. So the blueprint they gave you, you will always need to adapt it to you and your business, your home life, your goals and your needs. Because if you are unaligned you will not have the money you want.

Hmm, that is that is deep. I love that. It's so important to be looking holistically at everything. Oh my gosh, this has been like such a juicy conversation and I'm like over here going Are we the same person? Do we share a brain because I fell in alignment and agreement with every single thing that you've said? Is there any like a final words of wisdom that you wanted to share?

I'd share it with people you know you We're right on time. Often we're trying to manipulate things and really run for masculine energy. And I'm a very masculine energy person, but learn to surrender. Learn to remember that you're exactly where you need to be. You can always change, you can always pivot, and you can always evolve. But trust the process, double down on you believe in you. And yeah, you do you because as soon as you find you and you're in alignment, money flows, blind flows. And so again, that's what I would be my final words.

That's so good. Okay, so you mentioned your podcast, and you say it again, so people can go and subscribe and let them know where they can connect with you.

Yeah, so it's the Angela Henderson Online Business show that you can find on all major platforms. And if you want to connect deeper or you know, explore working with me, or whatever, you can head to Angelahenderson.com.au again, I work with people one on one, I've got two different masterminds, I run retreats in Bali in Australia. So if you ever want to come to Bali, Australia, come on over. And yeah, that's, that's me in a nutshell. But again, come and find me in a way that works for you. So if it's to listen to my podcasts, listen to my podcasts, if it's coming behind Instagram, come and say hi, do things that are easy for you. And I just look forward to welcoming you into my world, whatever way that looks

like. So thank you so much for being here.

Thanks so much, my friend, have a great day back home.

Hello, Shula, I am so pumped to talk to you about such an important topic. today. We're talking about mental health for entrepreneurs. And like, we could probably be here for six hours tapping conversation, we're gonna try and keep it short. So please, can you tell us first of all, the really interesting way that you work with entrepreneurs as a therapist.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: So the way that I work in 30, day windows of support, because I find that entrepreneurs are so busy, and stuff is always coming up, right. And so while it's important to have the face to face dedicated time, which in the 30 days, we have twice, but I also provide what I call implementation support, where folks have voice note access to me, between sessions, because that's when the crap is going to hit the fan, right. And it's such an emotional roller coaster running a business, that to have somebody where, like, you may have a best biz bestie or a best friend or a partner in whom you can confide. And there may be things that you feel more vulnerable about and but to carry those on your own is very taxing, right. And so you can drop a voice note to say, that crop has hit the fan, I'm feeling so stressed out. Or if something you want to celebrate something, you can celebrate it with me if you want a little bit of coaching, right. So it's that wraparound kind of support for 30 days for folks that really fits in with the entrepreneurial lifestyle, because, again, you can send me a voicemail 24/7 I will respond within my business boundaries, of course, but life happens and you want to be able to connect right and have a safe place to put those things. So that's how I do it.

Yeah, so important for entrepreneurs to have an outlet, like you said, and and as a like, therapist, as opposed to a business coach or person in a mastermind program with you like his bestie, as you said, somebody who brings that different perspective, what are some of the main things that your clients bring up with you?

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Well, there's a lot of emotional labor, I'll thank Diane winger of the driven woman podcast for pointing out I mean, I knew about that. It was it was hard on your emotions, but she named it emotional labor. And as women, we are very familiar with the term emotional labor, but we I at least have always related it to what I do in my relationship. in heterosexual relationships, most women are the ones who are doing the emotional labor for the family, right? Caring for the emotions of the folks around them. Well, as business owners, we care for the emotions of everybody around us because we are holding space for our clients, for our, for our contractors, for our employees, anybody, it's not appropriate for us to when stuff comes up to just be like bled all over the person, because we're in the leadership role. But then what do we do with all the stuff that comes up in us emotionally around our relationships with these people, and this emotional labor, and we are isolated from these people by that that's a fact an aspect of our isolation as entrepreneurs. And so, together, like isolation is a big topic. We are isolated in many, many ways as business owners, and this emotional labor is one particular way that we are isolated. And so to have a place to where you can process all of that, and talk it through without harming the relationships with your clients or with your contractors or with your employees or with your business partners, right? You want to because we're responsible for those relationships, we want to care for them. But we don't want to carry that on our backs. Right? Yeah, that's, that's one example of, of the kind of things that folks will work on.

Yeah, cuz I can see how you know, when we're out there facing all of the things and even just thinking about one area, which is social media, when you put yourself out there on social media, and then you're just opening up the floodgates to anybody's opinions, positive, negative, whatever happens, and then you're supposed to, what are you supposed to do with that? When it comes in at you? And you're, you know, there's this everyone says, you know, just be your own self, and who cares what other people think and bla bla bla Yes, but, but that has to go somewhere for right.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: And I'll thank Meg case board for bringing this up. She talks about feminine conditioning, that women we are conditioned in our socialization people who identify it over a socialized as women, our first impulse is to say, What's the matter with we what have I done wrong. And so for us, when we're in that position of vulnerability, like you say, holding a leadership position, particularly on social media, where we are open, and also vulnerable. When someone throws something at us, our first instinct because we've been socialized into it is to go, something's wrong with me. Right? And it takes this as an example of emotional labor, right? We have to we have to metabolize inside ourselves, and sort out, okay, where's this coming from? What does this mean? What is my response to it, without falling into the oh, there must be something wrong with me, or I must have done something wrong, that trap, which, as a public figure, and a leader can like sink your ship really fast, right. And, again, I'll credit Brene Brown, for this one, she talks about what it takes to be a daring leader. And to take a stand on things or to take a position, again, to come back to social media, where you and I both take positions on social media, around our areas of expertise. It takes courage and things when we do that there was going there are going to be things that suck aspects of that experience that suck. And she talks about embracing the suck. And what because it's, there's no way that it's all the time going to feel great to be a daring leader to be courageous, right? And our capacity to embrace the suck depends on our resources and our support. And so when you're feeling shaken like that, yes, of course, you could talk to your therapist, that's me. But it also takes more than one person, it takes a whole community to remind you of your values and remind you why you said that thing and remind you that it matters so that you can stay firm, and true to your values. So that, let's say in quotation marks, assaults, right? Emotional assaults, things that land that are difficult to hear. Don't shake you off your foundation, right? You need a whole community, a whole network. And we assume especially because on social media, we just see that one person. I don't maybe I shouldn't say we but I certainly I've seen people and I know I myself assume that I should be able to embrace the suck on my own but know, what we need is to be resourced and what resource means is to have a wide network of support.

Hmm, oh, there were so many good things in there. around like, not that you would say it better than this. How do you not take it personally?

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Yes, well, that's the thing. To take something personally means that you are interpreting it as meaning that your innate value as a human being has been diminished. So we often talk about this with kids where you distinguish between the between the behavior and the human. And you say to the kid, like what you did was a mistake, but you are not a mistake. There's nothing wrong with you, as a human being, you are a perfectly worthy person. And this thing was not a good thing to do. So let's talk about how we could do this thing differently, right? To come to us as adults. And to apply that same principle. Of course, our first impulse is to take it that it means Oh, oh, well, I'm a bad human. I'm a bad leader, something about me as bad I've done something wrong. And that's a real shame attack. Right? And that's very shame attacks are crippling and paralyzing. And disempowering. They're very shame is like the hardest thing to deal with. Yeah, and when we can separate the thing from the person and I found awkward Got a Kristin Neff, for this. I found self compassion is very, very, very powerful. So that when something comes in, and I find myself feeling all squeegee in my stomach and all anxious and like, oh geez, there's something the matter with me like I'm, I'm a shit human being. Not that somebody has told me this, but this is what the internalized critic is telling me yes, to be able to go, oh, wait a sec, that I'm really in distress right now. Like I'm noticing I'm really in distress, something that has hit me really hard. And so and you can see if you're not watching the video, I've placed my hand on palm down on my chest, and also my palm is on my belly, and my eyes are a little closed, I'm going to take a breath. Because I'm remembering like, even now what it was like to hear those kinds of things and to have those feelings and so to say, like, I'm in distressed. And of course, I'm experiencing distress, distress that was hard to hear. And then the common humanity aspect of it to say, well, it's normal to feel distress, many people would feel distress. Under these circumstances, it's okay to be distressed about this. So validation of common humanity. And then, from Kristin Neff, the last thing, she says in this little process, and I'll give you the link, so you can put it in the show notes. He is May I be kind to myself, Well, we've already been kind to ourselves by taking these steps and by nurturing and nourishing ourselves. And that helps us know that we are, we are in a in a like a warm and caring relationship with ourselves. And that sends the message fine. Okay, I am worthy, I'm valuable. So that we have our own experience of that. And that separates that from whatever the message was. And we can then look at the message for what it is and say, Is this something I need to address or not? And if so, what am I going to do about it, but to not take it personally, as an adult? The very first thing is to turn toward yourself and to acknowledge and validate that this is a painful moment here. Right,

and and as entrepreneurs, we're one put into that situation quite and probably more frequently. And you can speak to that in a second. And the other thing I wanted to just say, is, we also have this mentality of like, we don't I don't have time, I don't have time to like sitting validate myself and touch my heart, I have things to do and not enough people that I'll

Shulamit Ber Levtov: take, right, like, how long was that? That was like maybe maybe two minutes,

Right? And I can say like, I know, when I do this versus what I don't do this, like some version of this. My therapist gave me that acronym rain.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Yes, it's the same time and word of Yes, it is good.

Yeah, it's important, right? It's like, sometimes that moment of shame and pain and whatever like that heightened emotion is it can stew, right sometimes, like, and I think this is, in part the definition of resiliency, it's how fast you can like move through it instead of having it stay with you and like to talk you down because there's days where something comes up, and it's like, Okay, that's it can't do anything else. Like I'm crippled, I'm on the couch or whatever, I just my brain stopped working, I can't get over this, this thing that somebody said, or this way that this made me feel or whatever it was, versus days where it just rolls off your back a lot easier.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Well, the difference in the days is the how resourced we are, on a day when you're feeling fully resourced. Like things have been going well, there haven't been a lot of demands on your system, stuff can just flow off your back on a day when your gas tank is kind of low, right? And the demand is high, eventually you're going to run out. And what happens when emotions are high really is that we can't think straight. Right? The emotions take the front we get all wrapped up in them. And they prevent us from seeing the whole picture. And the value of taking that moment to connect with ourselves and to validate and reassure like I'm okay with myself and I'm you know, giving myself some care allows the emotions to shift so that we can then bring our focus back to what it is in front of us and what we need to do as entrepreneurs, because our emotions have important information, but they can't be the whole story. Right? We can't run our our businesses on just emotions, right? And so we can take that moment to be with the emotions and bring them and our full intelligence, our full cognitive abilities back to the thing at hand. And resilience is a practice. It's a set of skills that can be developed in practice, just like weightlifting, you know, where you grow the muscle by the more you lift, the stronger the muscle gets. Resilience is a set of skills that are learned. And the more you practice them, the more they're available to you. And I agree with you that the more you practice them, the more effective they will be and the greater the impact they will have so that over time, your turnaround time after being upset will be short. In shorter, yeah,

yeah, I love how you frame that. Because sometimes I think we have this preconception that, you know, once you learn something that said it's supposed to, you're supposed to have learned to know like, that seems not even breaking out holiday when it comes to emotions especially. But it's I think, you know, this extra layer here where it's like we're talking about things that all humans deal with, but through the lens of being an entrepreneur and the different pressures and the different experiences that we have, when we take on this role in our lights.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Yes, really, it's unique. Non entrepreneurs experience many of the things that we experienced as entrepreneurs, but individually, we experienced them all together, they all come many of the stressors that we experienced occur at the same time. And they potentiate one another, they amplify one another, right? Whereas a person either like decision making, a person who's not an entrepreneur, will be stressed out about decisions, from time to time, right thought decision fatigue from time to time, but then they are also responsible for cash flow this month, which is very low. And then also responsible for the shitshow that's going on in their Facebook group. And you got I mean, like they, these things are part to them one at a time, where for us, they all come together more frequently.

Can you label some of those things for us? As far as like some of the experiences that entrepreneurs are having that are contributing to our emotional labor? That's what Yeah, yeah.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: So in my work, I've identified seven factors. And it's actually, you know, every time I teach about these seven factors, people name more of them. So I want to say that this is not an exhaustive list. These are just the ones that I've seen, as I've worked through with folks. But we talked about isolation. And I would say that's the number one that's that's the major, major thing that most entrepreneurs have mentioned to me. And also, a lot of the research bears out into entrepreneurship and mental health talks a lot about entrepreneurial isolation and the impact it has as a mental health factor. But in addition, we have VUCA, which is a leadership term, it's a short, what do you call it, an acronym for volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity, that is the nature of our work, right? That our, our days are volatile, there's a lot of uncertainty that occurs in the in the course of our work, the information that we have to deal with is complex and often unclear. And we have to just do our best right to make a decision and go with it and hope for the best. And things change so frequently, right? Like the economy changes frequently, the algorithms change frequently, though, as well is a real factor in our lives. There are many barriers to support for entrepreneurs. Because entrepreneurial poverty is a thing cash poverty is a thing. And so one of the big mental health supports that I would love to see everybody have is an virtual assistant. But not all of us have the businesses that have the cash flow that can support having an assistant. And that's over and above like, obviously a therapist, but if you don't have the cash money to pay a therapist, it's going to be or you don't have extended health care benefits, right? In Canada or in the US, if you don't have health care coverage period, it's going to be tough to access a therapist without a certain level of cash flow in your business. And then to find a therapist who understands business there are even fewer, right? So there are many, many barriers to support for us. Hustle culture is a problem. Hustle culture is really a feature of of the entrepreneurial ecosystem. In 2019, the Canadian Mental Health Association had a they issued a report called going it alone. And they talked about the nature of the discord like the narrative around entrepreneurship that it's Go, go go, you know, like tough. Handle it all, no matter what Gary Vee says, Yeah, I got this crush it culture or whatever. But yet, this is so hustle culture is we have to change these narratives, because the hustle culture is so harmful, because we neglect ourselves. And we find ourselves also kind of absorbing values that aren't even ours. When we end up in business because there's an emphasis on growth, there's an emphasis on numbers. And for many of us, that isn't even what our values are, but we just get swept up in the whole thing without an opportunity. And that's the other side of hustle is that we don't have an opportunity to to slow down and check in and go hey, wait a minute, is that really in alignment with my values? And we can find ourselves having built a whole business that has made me very successful but it's actually burning us out because we are lost in the hustle trance reversal hustle culture and capitalism exploitative extractive consumerist values that get tangled up in all that those are very harmful to people's mental health. And then we talked about this already, the connection between self worth and success, like not taking things personally, but also the ups and downs of the business, you know, when things are going poorly, then you should talk yourself when well, like, what did I even think I was doing? Who did I think I was to start a business, I'm a terrible entrepreneur, I don't know anything about marketing, blah, blah, blah, right? Then your self worth tanks. And then when you have in a good way, of course, a good day, of course, then you talk to yourself nicely. So. And that's a human tendency to link success in your role to your self worth. And this is where self compassion really is so much better. Because it's not tied to any external factors. It's really your relationship with yourself.

You know? Sorry, go ahead. I know you're going through your list. And I definitely want to hear what all the rest are. But yeah, this one, I feel Bearsville deserves a little bit more of an expansive important drive and be your I've heard all this before. I've literally talked to my own therapist about this, but you're putting it right now in different words that make more sense. Or maybe I'm finally just been able to open my mind enough to hear and receive, which sometimes that's a difference just state of being right to understand that. But truly, it is so, so common. And I'm saying that I've personally experienced that an activity between self worth and basically income, like success, not even being like defining success in your own terms, which I've talked about a lot and have worked really hard to try and do in terms of like saying what Success to me is, this flexibility is this lifestyle that I have is my ability to be the kind of parent I want to be to walk my kids to the school to take them to activities at four o'clock in the afternoon. But yet, when I'm having like, a strenuous time when it comes to the cash flow, I'm like, I suck. I'm the worst and everything feels like an attack on me.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Yes, yes. Well, this is so important that you're especially bringing up money, because lack, whether perceived or real, is read in the body, like a threat. And it elicits the threat, the body's threat response, the fight flight freeze fun response. And so for us as entrepreneurs, when our businesses, business owners, when our when our money is low, we're our organ, even if we intellectually know differently, our organism is responding in fear. And fear narrows the like it's called tunnel vision, it narrows the focus on only the negative. And it also depletes because of the level of stress response, our resources are depleted. And that's when the internalized critic will come up and start really kicking your butt. It's so it's so difficult to get out from that. But I really want to the so called scarcity mindset that comes when we don't have the cash flow we need in our business is a reality. Scarcity has its own psychology. And when we have a lack of time, lack of love, lack of money, again, whether real or perceived, because folks can have tons of money in the bank and still have the emotional memories of being without and still fear being without and still therefore be in fear, you know, so it makes so much sense that we would freak out if we don't have cash flow and or that we get fixated on cashflow, because it becomes a survival issue on an organismic level. Like again, you know, I know we're not going to die if we don't if our if our businesses take tomorrow, it won't be fun to die. She has right how they get them doesn't Hey, talking to them. Thanks for gonna die.

I always think of that line. I don't remember which movie was prob I think it was from like, what was that one where they all went to Vegas, The Hangover, and Leslie Chow like, but did you die? At the end? I like that all the time. That when it's like, let's assess the real risk here.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Right. Right. Right. And that's like, that's also a self compassion move, to be able to say like, yes, of course, you're scared that you're perceiving lack. And let's, you know, you sort of invite the part of you that's in fear, to look through your eyes and to take in information that it doesn't have. So you know, you validate it and you say, It's okay, no wonder you're scared. This is scary. It's a survival situation. And of course, in a survival situation, people get scared. That's okay. I'm with you. And I invite you to take a look through my eyes. Let's take a look at what's going on today. Here and now. Right there is no bear. You're not a bunny, right? In these four walls, you are physically safe, your existence is not threatened. Right? And now let's take a look at the actual numbers. And let's see what the data tells us. And then see what we need to do with the information at hand instead of coming from the fear. So like you say, let's look at the reality.

Yeah, who, oh, that's so good. Okay, I don't remember where we are. We're on your list

Shulamit Ber Levtov: of winking self worth in success. Okay. And there, there are two more. One is the fact that most entrepreneurs have a predisposition. Many I shouldn't say most many entrepreneurs have a predisposition to mental illness. So Michael Freeman, who's a psychiatrist and a psychologist in the US, he's like the grandfather of research into entrepreneurship and mental health. In 2015, he did a study that showed that, and I forget what the actual percentage is now, but a significant percentage of entrepreneurs have mental health issues. And he has it very interesting theory, because he'll he'll also He also notes that of the entrepreneurs in his studies who don't have a mental health diagnosis their family members do. And he thinks that there's some genetic aspect, intertwined with the quote unquote, mental illness that expresses itself along a spectrum. So that the most severe expression is the illness, and the less severe expression is what enables people to engage in entrepreneurial activities. Such an interest, I know, right. Fascinating. Fascinating. Yeah. So

I mean, I could be what's the word? Well, my my Pistorius is not working to speak to you. Yeah, but I could say oh, so Yeah, cuz you do have to be a little crazy to start your article. Yeah. Yep.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Yep. And so he says, folks who are energetic, motivated, and creative, and entrepreneurial, also experienced strong emotional states. And so, you know, when we bring in, and then like, like, the stressful, and many folks who started businesses have started businesses as a response to mental health issues in the workplace. Right, right. So

I don't want to be tied to this corporate schedule, and I don't, I'm burning myself out only to enter into entrepreneurship

Shulamit Ber Levtov: yet, or the toxicity. Specifically, like racialized folks, or folks who have disabilities, or women, who are, you know, who get crap in the corporate world, because they leave at five because they have families and they and they value, you know, a balance, there are all kinds of what's the word systemic oppression built into employment. And lots of folks have left employment for entrepreneurship, because they could create for themselves a healthy, a mentally healthier workplace at home, where they're not exposed to these constant micro aggressions around their parenting role, or their skin color or their the perception of the what their racialized group is as a whole, or that they want accommodation to support their disability so that they can perform their jobs. You know, there's a lot of they get a lot of flack, right, but you come home and create your own business. But you still have the mental health impact of what that was like in that workplace that you're caring for as you establish your business. So there's this whole pool of like, issues of mental wellness and illness that pump with us into our businesses. Hmm. And then the seventh factor, which we alluded to, before I call it invisible, is the fact that all the other six amplify one another. Who, right they pile on and make it worse.

Mm hmm. Yep. Yep, it is. Wow. Wow. So okay. This was very like mind opening this conversation. But before we sign off, do you have what? What kind of advice do you give foreigners? What's your top advice? For us as we navigate all these things that we're now aware of and have acknowledged are very normal,

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Right? So I do logger workshops based on these seven factors. And we start ice. This is where I started with the with the seven factors. And by the end of it, it's feeling pretty heavy people are like, whoa, you know, and when you pause to take in the weight of those things, right to really take in what it is I'm trying to accomplish as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, and what I have to face it's no wonder that there are times when it's going to be hard. It's absolutely Really no wonder that you have mental challenges to your mental and emotional well being. Maybe you might even experience mental illness like depression or anxiety or burnout, right? Because what we're trying to do is hard. And it will have an impact on us. It's not a question of f in our businesses, but when? Because it's the nature of the work. So when it hits you, you can say to yourself, Well, I'm dealing with XYZ 123. Like no wonder, of course, there's nothing wrong with me, who wouldn't be feeling this way? Right? There's just nothing wrong with us. Because what we're trying to do is hard. So of course, it's going to be hard.

Mm hmm. And to just leave it like, like there are there are solutions to support that there's, there's ways to process the emotions that take breaks to, like, acknowledge what you're going through and try and find the ways that work for you as an individual to, you know, decompress throughout this whole roller coaster that we're all.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Well, the first thing I think, is to really tell yourself, there's nothing wrong with me like to really acknowledge like, yeah, there's nothing wrong with me. And then you can you can make this conversation, you can make this topic, a conversation with everybody, you know, your your biz bestie, your coach, your mastermind group, the incubator, where you go, the networking group, you can make mental and emotional wellness, while being part of every conversation you have. Because opening the door to that, like, creates connection. Of course, you want to be judicious about how much you share. Because good boundaries are important. And you want to choose carefully with whom you share. But you can put these things on the table, right and be met by other folks who are feeling the same way. And Amin, my goodness, right. So you can validate for yourself, seek others who validate you, and then you can choose, like some of the paid options to like a therapist and a coach. But there are there are ways that like we don't need money. After we've said to ourselves, there's nothing wrong with me, right? And of course, I deserve some support, right? And then we can go to our peers and then go to the paid option

Well, because the fact that you're dealing with all of this doesn't need to be at another thing that you carry on your own

Shulamit Ber Levtov: 100% Yes, I love how you said that. The fact that you're carrying this does not have to be something you deal with on your own.

Oh, this has been such an important conversation. I really appreciate you shedding light on all of these topics, and that we're putting this out into the world to help normalize these conversation. Please please connect with Shula, where do you like to connect with people

Shulamit Ber Levtov: shula.ca/newsletter is where they can sign up where folks can sign up for my newsletter. And this is really like in terms of validation and support. That's where you're going to get it. That's where I you know, my all my long form stuff, all the research, I do all the skill building, all that kind of stuff. The newsletter is where you'll get it. I also love social media for the social aspect of it. And so if you want to connect with me on LinkedIn or on Instagram and chat with me in the direct messages, I don't really like I mean, obviously I create content so that I have a presence. But for me, the more fun thing is to talk to folks. So I'm my DMs are open, right like for the conversation. I'm 100% down for that.

Oh, so good. All right. Thank you so much for all of this.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Kelly. I'm so grateful. It's so important. Thank you for being open to the conversation

Okay, Keaton Haskins, welcome to entrepreneurs school, I am actually so pumped about this conversation. One, you just did an epic event recently with the likes of Ed, my lead and Gary Vee and huge speakers. So it's great to be in your presence. And you're amazing. And you have built so many incredibly successful businesses. So I'm really excited to hear about, you know how you did that, and how you did that, as a parent, you have four daughters. And so let's have a chat about it. So the first thing I really would love to dig into is, you know, I think we have this societal definition of success and what that looks like. And it kind of sets us up for failure a little bit in terms of like, we have this vision of it has to be all this money and all this fancy stuff. Can you talk about like, how success how you define success and how that's maybe shifted over time as you were a first star hanging out as an entrepreneur and now getting to the point where you know, you own a helicopter? And

yes, you know, it's funny you say how it started and how it is now, because success really has been defined completely different for me from the very beginning to now, you know, when you're younger, you're your definition of success is I just want to succeed and make a ton of money. And the more money I make, the more successful I'll be. And then as you start to really mature, you find out really quick, it's not money. There's no real success and money. In fact, some of the most miserable people I've ever met are those who just seek and chase money. And as I've gotten older, and I sounds like we're the same age, where are we 3637, or 37. As I've gotten older, I have found that there's a really, really simple answer to success. And it's, it's being present. Most people live in the past, and most people live in the future, very few people live in the present. It's one of the reasons why depression is so rampant and anxiety is so high in our culture and in our society. Because so many people don't understand the concept that really the only thing that matters is this actual present moment, you know, you've got a million things going on right now. And a million things you're going to do later today. But the truth is, is how well this podcast happens is how present you are right now with me. And so in my definition, it's those who are able to be present in the current moment that they're in. And in doing so they're able to make the right decisions, find the joy, find the peace, find the happiness, let go the depression, let go of the anxiety. And in that you actually get what you seek in life. It's funny that it's literally called the present because it is a gift that's given to us. And then it's gone. And the our problem is that we live from past to past the past, we never live in the present moment to the next present moment. And so for me, it's so simple now, it's just being present. And the more present I am, the more successful I feel.

Absolutely. And you know, there's a lot to that goes into that it isn't as simple necessarily. It's why they call it a practice, right? Of being present. And, and have that shifted for you. Like, if you think back to when you first were getting started in business before you had all the things and the money and everything like that. Did it look different? Was it more challenging? Maybe it was

it was so different because for me, I've never really struggled with thinking or or staying in the past never had that problem. My problem has always been anxiously awaiting the future. When I was 21 years old, I decided I wanted to be a millionaire. And I had nothing, I had nothing. I had no money, no ELP. And from 21 to 30, I told myself, I wanted to be a millionaire by the time I was 30. Now I accomplished that. But I was so focused on the next thing and the next thing and the next thing I could tell you right now I literally wasted 21 to 30. Because all I did was chase money, and chase success. And my children grew up and my first wife who I divorced because of this, I suffered so much. And then I specifically remember when I was 30. And I remember seeing my bank account for the first time at $1,000,000.13 grand. And I remember sitting in my living room and I thought why don't I feel different right now? Like why doesn't this feel different? Why? Why didn't something just click and like, I'm a millionaire now like, This is it. And I realized, and I got actually emotional, I thought holy shit. I just wasted 10 years to get this and it means very, very little. And so from that point, by the time I turned 30, my quest, my idea of what success was completely changed. And I realized the most important thing to me was exactly what you asked. It was time and being present in the current moment and the time that you have with people and the relationships that you create. And I realized that no matter what I do from here on out, even if I'm not a multi billionaire by the time I'm 40 I would rather be able to say you know what I was in every every single present moment that I needed to be in. And, and that's when it I mean literally it changed. Now again, you talked about practicing it that takes a ton of work, because your mind automatically especially when you've conditioned it from 21 to 32. Just think about the future think about the future plan for the future. I realized that it was gonna take a lot of work and a lot of effort but I can tell you today I do not struggle about being in the current moment literally right before this call. I got a million things going on. I'm actually going to Las Vegas in like two hours. So I'm jumping on a jet. I've got a million things going on and my daughter she's two she said dad will you dance is with me. So literally, I'm at right before this call, I'm upstairs in my room, and we're dancing for 20 minutes, and I got a million things I could think about and get ready for and prepare for me even this call. And I didn't, I didn't, I didn't think about anything else. But that exact moment. And in that exact moment, I was right there with my two year old dancing in my bathroom. And to me 100% That is success to the highest degree, because her life and her moment and my life and my moment was in those 20 minutes, and I've got a million things that I'm gonna go do for the rest of the day, right, and I'm not gonna see your and probably till tomorrow. But in that current moment, and I was exactly there, and that, again, is all that's the only thing I care about the rest of my life. And the success that I seek will always just be that be here, right now, in this present moment. And again, like I tell you, and I know you got a million things going on, is the same thing I say to you, like be here with me right now. This is our moment. And this is our present and current time to be together to connect. Hopefully, there's hundreds of 1000s of people that listen to this, and that they're here listening at this moment, like, you know what I'm driving in the car, but I need to be present right here for this. Because there's something here that I'm to learn that will change my life. And if I'm thinking about yesterday, or I'm focused on tomorrow, this whole podcast that I'm even going to listen to it's going to it's going to sweep by, and I'm not going to take anything from it. It literally is about being present.

Wow. Yeah. Well, so many, so many things. And I was getting all emotional going, yeah. Like how many times has a parent put themselves in a position where they're like, Oh, I know, I don't have time to watch a movie with you. Because I have to, like finish this thing for work. And, you know, like all of this sort of those little choices that we have to make on a daily basis about this or that. And without thinking about sort of the impact that will have later if we reflect back on those choices that we made.

Exactly, exactly. And we missed that so much when we're not willing to be present. And I will say this, because I know there's people that will listen to this, that will say I feel like I'm drowning, because I don't have enough money, and I'm losing it every part of my life. It's hard to be present. Because you're thinking about the bills that are coming tomorrow and you're thinking about, you know, even I have cancer, and I'm thinking about what's next. Like it's really hard to be present. And so you know, one of the reasons why people put money and success together is because if you have enough money, if you're smart, it does allow you to be in the present moment, you're not focused on your bills. I don't even know what my bills are. I'm able to have that moment with my daughter 2030 minutes ago, because I don't care about what's tomorrow, because I'm okay, because financially I've done the things I need to do to be okay. And to be in this current moment.

Yeah. So you know, when it comes to like business, and achieving financial success, let's just call it financial success and not be a broad definition of what success is. One thing that a lot of people think about is like, goals, right? Like, we gotta set goals, we've got to be ambitious, we got to, you know, put up a fence post out there that we want to get across. Now, how do you like reconcile that, like the setting of goals and the desire for things and achievements with the presence along the journey?

Well, so you know, one of the things you talked about when we first got on the call, and again, it's an honor to meet you, I you know, I didn't know anything about you, or the podcast, but you talked about success in family and in business and all those things. And the truth is, and I know I'm gonna kick against a lot of opinions here. The truth is, is there is balance in life, and everybody that says otherwise is just a coward and isn't willing to put in the work. Like people will say, we can't have balance and success. And that's bullshit. Like people will say, Well, if you want to be successful, you got to just focus on one thing, you don't do anything else. And that's not true. It's just really hard. It's really hard to put time into yourself, into your family, into your friends into your business, I mean, all of those things, you got to be able to do it, and then it's possible, but it's really, really hard. And so I say, This is what I tell people when when talking about this, you know, being present and the whole thing. So I teach, I have a mentor program called limitless society, that's what the event was, and everything else. And I teach five principles, and it's based around balance, right? The five principles of success, whatever you want, however, you want to label it, and it's really simple. You have to number one, be physically healthy, mentally healthy, emotionally healthy, and then spiritually healthy. And if you do those four, you're financially healthy. The problem is, is that most people focused on one financial health, and they fuck off the rest of it. And the rest of it is really what's most important, and that's the problem. When you read you meet somebody who's rich And they're miserable, because they've only done the one and they didn't do the rest that are really, really important. So for those who are seeking real success, and again, if you're just looking to be rich, I'm not the person to talk to, there's so many other people who are so much more rich than I am. But if you seek the exact life that you want, there will not be another person on this planet that will know better than I do. I'm not the richest, I'm not. But I am one of the very few on this planet who literally have every single piece of their life that they want, my family, my friends, my health, my money, all of my successes, it's all together. Now you're right. I'm not a billionaire. And maybe one day I will be. But my success is the balance of all of those staples that I said, and all four of those first ones are way more important than the fifth. And if you focus on those four, the fifth always follows one of my favorite quotes is Jim Rohn. Talks about if you work as hard at your job, or other way around, if you work as hard on yourself as you do at your job, you'll become way, way, way more successful. But so many people just work on their job because it's money. Right? Yeah, but true success is progression in all things. And that's where you I mean, really, for those who are listening, that's where you need to buy yourself is in personal development in all those categories. And then And then the last one, the least important that everybody puts out, right? Then you become financially successful, right. And then the only other thing I would say, and just because you asked, I have spent, and I say this, because I've made the mistakes, I have spent the first 10 years of my career. So from when I was 20, to 30, chasing success, I spent it chasing it, and I imagine you probably chased it too. And then you find out and this will be the best piece of information I can give anybody ever. Success is not pursued, it's attracted. And you can only attract it by becoming attractive to it. And the way you become attractive to it is by working on yourself, your personal growth and your personal development. And when you do those things, success bonds, and I'm talking financial, spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, all of those things. And then it comes in you realize, oh, shit, I've been pursuing it, like I could chase it. And what I should have been doing is working on me to become attracted to it. And then it comes.

Exactly. So I was gonna say what you're saying is that the financial success is really the outcome of you working on those other things.

The byproduct? Yeah, yeah, I love it. And again, the reason I love sharing this is because I was an idiot. And I thought that I could chase it down, and I just burned everything to the ground. And then I looked at that bank account, and I went, What the hell am I doing? My kids don't know who I am. I'm divorced, I have no happiness inside of me. And I haven't been present for 10 years, I passed away 10 years. So my bank account could show that number. There's no success in that zero.

That is just like, thank you for that transparency. Because I do believe that, what, what a lot of us feel is like, Well, when I get to x, then I'm going to feel differently, I'm going to be able to act differently and behave differently. And then I'll be able to, you know, have these moments, you know, I I actually started my business when I lost my mom to breast cancer. And these are the things that make you really aware of time, and how precious it is and how you don't have you can never get it back. And so on a daily basis, just remembering like how to prioritize that. It's

I love that that is so beautiful. You know, once a one of the things that I teach, because people asked like, how do you get map perspective, the one you just said, the most beautiful perspective in the whole world you just labeled. And it's a really simple principle, Marcus Aurelius taught, he said, You should contemplate death on a daily basis. And the reason he said that is because death puts us in perspective and what happened, your mom got cancer, and for death became part of your perspective. And that perspective changed everything about who you are to your core. Because you realized when she goes, nothing I will have accomplished really matters. The only thing that matters is the present moments that I had with her. That's when life like really finds true meaning for us. And that's when we actually shift into who we're We're supposed to be. And the problem is, and this is what I'm going to spend the rest of my life doing is most people and this is Ed my, let's quote, most people think everybody else is going to die. They don't think they're gonna die. And that's when when that shift happens, and you go, I'm gonna, I'm gonna die one day. And I don't, I don't want to just be rich. I want everything that this life has to offer. And the only way for me to have that is to be present in the moments that that light has given me. I can't imagine, I can't imagine a greater hell than standing with God, and Him showing you your life and a glimpse and saying, look at all of these beautiful moments that I created for you. And not one time, did you stop and just be present in that moment that I created for you? And you're gonna look back and go, Man that that time was my father was so important. That time was my mom was so important. And he's gonna say, Yeah, but your bank account looks so great, doesn't it? It doesn't matter. What matters is that I gave you your mother until you were 20 or 25. And you didn't take the time in the moments to have that I gave you. And I can Guaran damn tee you. If I asked you for all your money back for more time with her and oppressive moment with her. You go here, take it all. So again, you asked that question, what's true success? It's being present in the moment that we're given. 100% It's just being present. And money helps. Yeah. Oh, besses.

Yeah. So was there a specific moment for you like that? You can think of that where there was a turning point in either your perspective of this or your awareness of this?

Yeah. So my speech at the event, I spoke about my father, my father, he died when I was 21 years old, he actually was sick most of my life. And I was a Mormon missionary. And I decided that I was going to go on a mission. And when I decided that most people don't know this about missionaries, missionaries go all over the world. And they don't really speak to their families, because they kind of stay focused on the work. So you really only write letters, you don't do phone calls. You don't if they didn't have FaceTime back then obviously. And when I decided to go, I actually had a conversation with both my mother and my father, and they said, Hey, dad probably won't be here. When you get back. And you need to understand what you're signing up for. We support you, but we need you to understand, right? My dad actually ended up living about 90 days after I got home. And when I got home, and he fought like hell, in fact, that's what my speech was on. At the event was my father's fight while I was gone, and then all the way to when I got home. And when I got home, and I watched him die, he actually died in my arms. He, my mom called me at three in the morning and said, Hey, I need you to come home. And I need you to tell your father, it's okay to go. So I came three in the morning, I put my hands on my dad, and I just said, Dad, you've done what you needed to do. And I'll take it from here. I love you like you need to let go. You need to stop fighting. And then he passed away a few hours later, a year and 21. I was 21 years old. I had the absolute honor of carrying my father out of our home and putting him in an ambulance. And when I carried him out, the people there were like, how did this guy live so long, like his body stopped a long time ago. And I knew what it was, I knew he had made me a promise when I left. He's like, I'll be here. I promise you, I'll be here. And and he fought for that 100% Like his body quit way before it died. And I realized, on his deathbed and those last few hours, I realized, like life is not what we think it is. It's it's much, much shorter. And it gave me a powerful, powerful perspective about what truly is important. My father was a nine to fiver. He was the CEO of a big company who was very successful in that realm. And the last two years of his life, they kicked him out the board kicked him out because he was too sick. So the safety net and all the things that he had taught was total bullshit. He told me go to college, get a degree nine to 540 1k. And then he told me that was the safe route. Well, the last few weeks of his life, he told me the regrets he had was to not have me chase my dreams. And I said, Dad, you don't got to worry about that. I'm not going to do nine to five I can't I can't work for anybody. I've watched what has happened to you and I can't live this way. So as he died I specifically remember sitting in my living room while he was actually there. I was kind of allowing my slip Blanes to mourn the fact that our father had passed. And as I sat there, I specifically remember the impact and the the actual twist and change of perspective. And it was really, really simple. And it was, it was Keaton, you don't really know how long you have. And you may only live until you're 47, like your dad. And if that's the case, then you should get every single thing out of this life that you seek. And this life has zero rules, there's no rules. And then I specifically remember a saying that I live and die by now coming to me. And it was, I would rather sink on my own ship than I would sell on somebody else's. Meaning I will never be able to work for somebody, I have to start building businesses, I have to start doing that. And so with the mixture of two things, I can't work for somebody, and life is too short. I put that into my mind. That's one of the reasons why leaving that home that day, I said, I will be a millionaire. Because I will not be in this position. I won't do it. And the other reason it was so important to me, and again, the reason why I've learned what I've learned is I made a commitment to my father to take care of my siblings and my mother. And I knew what that meant when I made that commitment, because he was so worried the last conversations we had, he said, I'm so scared to leave. Because I want to make sure your mother and your siblings are taken care of. And I'm you know, I said, Dad, don't worry about that. I got this promise you I got this. And so when he died, in my mind, I thought you got to be better. You have to be an entrepreneur, you have to provide, you know, we talk all the time about Ed my lead. And he talks about being the one right? Why knew that had to be me, I didn't even really have a choice because my father died and my family needed somebody to step up. So that's why I became so obsessed with success. By the time I was 30, because I knew in my mind what my plan was. And all along the way, I bought some of my siblings, their first houses, things my father would have done, I paid for my youngest sister, she was 12, when my father died, I paid for her first vehicle, something my father would have done. And then and then as a man, eight months ago, I the most the greatest experience I've ever had, I brought my mom in here, this is my office. And I sat her on my couch and I said, Hey, Mom, I made a commitment to that, that I would take care of you. And so from here on out, you're no longer going to worry about money. I'm going to retire you now you can do whatever you want. But you no longer have to worry about money, I gave her a debit card. I said you don't need to know anything. You just need to swipe it. You don't need to follow anything. I'm not giving you cash. I'm literally just saying you're free. You're free from the worries of that. Because that's what that needed me to do. And from here on out, you live the life you want to live, you do whatever you want to do, I don't care what it is you do whatever you want to do, don't check your bank account. You don't. I'm taking care of it. And the reason again, that that was so crucial to me is because that was a commandment in which I had made to My Father on his deathbed that I was able to make happen. Now here's the thing. Again, you know, you talk about success. Listen, I'm pretty successful financially, I'm okay, for 37 year old, I've done some good things. I'm probably not in a position to just go ahead and hand out millions and millions of dollars to my mom and say, hey, just do whatever you want. But what was important to me as somebody who really sought success was that hey, Keaton, in this present moment, you are really, really blessed. And I know you want more money. But I think it's really important right now that you start retiring mom now like she's 58 years old. Let's let her have her life. She's my mom's She's crazy. She'll probably lift 100. But like, like, give her the next 40 years to never have to worry about money ever again. And being being in the current moment. And being present is really the only thing that allowed me to do that. And so again, just to circle back with what you asked, like, if success and financial success is what I saw, I never would have done that with my mom. I would have said no way I'm gonna keep that money because I want to pack and back and back that bank account. That's not success. Success is being a 36 year old young man saying Hey, Mom, you don't have to worry. That success to me Yeah.

Oh, that took me like a full emotional roller coaster reliving my own experience with my mom's death, obviously, too. But one thing that you did mention in there was talking about, like chasing your dreams. And that's an interesting topic to discuss. Because there's that sort of limitation, I guess, that we sometimes feel like, Oh, well, I need things that are safe and secure. And like I will dream within what feels realistic, rather than like something of feels entirely unattainable and setting that for yourself.

You know, it did I keep referencing back this last weekend. Literally my talk, what I spoke on, and why Ed, my let was so happy with what I what I spoke on. It was it was that that's what my father taught me. My dad wasn't a dreamer. He, like I said, he was a nine to fiver. But when I when I left on my mission, I had a conversation with him in the kitchen. And for the first time in my entire life, I was 19 years old, I saw him have a dream, like a real dream. And I knew I knew it was a dream, because it had finally created a vision in him. And one of the things I spoke on was that there's two things that we do in our life, we dream and we daydream, and we give up dreaming at about 10 years old. And we switch, daydreaming and daydreaming just wastes time. And dreaming creates visions. I learned at 19 that even an old man, or he was old at that time. And so I guess only 10 years older than we are now. I learned at that time that a real dream creates a vision. And so when he sat down with me at the kitchen table, and he said, Hey, I know what the doctor said, I know what your mom said, I'm gonna be here when you were when you get home, I realized that that was a legit dream, the first real dream he had. And I'm not kidding. He was hooked up to oxygen. Like he was sick. I didn't think my father was going to be there when I got home. So when I saw him say that, I knew, I knew it was a dream. And I saw the vision, the vision was created in him. And so you know, when I left and I went on my mission, and I would get letter after letter from my mom, like, I don't know how long he has, I just don't know how long he asked. And then every week, week, by week, I would get another letter from him. And it would say the same shit, hey, work, stay focused, I'm doing what I need to do. And the third piece to what I spoke on, and what he taught me the most important part to the dream. And the vision is that you must then execute on the dreams that you're given. And that's what my dad did, he would is so funny, he would get up with his oxygen tank, and you would walk around the block. Like he was just doing enough to keep his body alive. So he could be there when his son got home. Right? And that's what I spoke on. That's what he taught me. And you know, for your listeners, like when you're hearing this, you should question, am I daydreaming? Or am I dreaming? And if I'm dreaming, what is the vision? And if I do have the vision? Am I executing on it every single day? And if I'm not, why am I not? Because for me, a 47 year old man whose body was done, it was done. I told you I carried him out of my living room. And literally the the nurses, they were like, I could hear them. Obviously I didn't think I was listening. I could hear them. They said this guy this guy's body gave up a long time ago. And we don't know why he's still here. And I specifically remember answering that question to me. They don't because I heard him. We don't know how. And I remember saying I know why he's still here because he had a dream and a vision that was really clear that he executed on every single day to get here. The reason and this is the one thing I left out. The reason my mom called me and said I need you to come at three in the morning was because she knew the dream was still so clear in his mind that the body had shut down. And the mind would not let go. So when I came at three in the morning, I put my hands on my dad's shoulders. And I literally I whispered to him, I said, Dad, you've accomplished the dreams that you set out for let go. You did everything let go. And then he passed away. And it was merely because his mind would not let go of the dream and the vision. It was so clear. And so for me like, again, and this is the whole thing of what I teach and limitless society is if you don't dream, you got to figure out how to start dreaming again. And how do you decipher between dreams and daydreaming? Well, it's the one that creates the vision. And then as soon as you are to last with the vision, and you got to execute. And that's the other piece that we even as entrepreneurs we fall short on, we have a dream and a goal. And then it turns into a vision and we start the business. And then we don't execute on that which we set out to do in the first place. Because it's too hard because we're too scared, because we're too nervous because we're, we don't want to risk. But the truth is, is that the only way through all that darkness into our drain is to execute on the vision that we have. And again, that's, that's the only thing I ever learned. It's the only thing I needed to learn from a dying father.

A film like, you just have to trust yourself right? Then, and that it's not nobody here saying that, that's an easy thing to do. And you know, all of that experience and all that perspective and the constant like getting pulled off to the side, because you're, you know, going down a rabbit hole and bringing yourself back to the present. And it's a journey. And so what I'm hearing you say is what I've experienced as well in six years of running my own business. And that's what I would love to make sure that we're clear about with anybody listening to this.

Well, 100%. And again, and I know that we keep going back ultimately to the things that we started to talk about, but how do you trust yourself? Well, that's called self development. That's personal development that's working on yourself. The truth is, the only way to build confidence and trust in yourself is to keep your word. And the only way to do that is by practicing it. So again, I have these entrepreneurs because of course, I you know, I started limitless society literally a year ago. And all I said was I want to make 10 millionaires this year, that was literally I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I was like, I wanna make 10 millionaires. I've started 35 businesses. And I'm done doing that I'm not really done started bonuses, but I was like, I'm done doing that. I want to help people, and I want to make millionaires. And so I had 1000s, and 1000s. And 1000s of messages come in. And I realized, like, Okay, so now I gotta build a program. So I started this program, and I realized immediately, it's not about being an entrepreneur, it's not about systems and strategies and infrastructure. You can only be as successful as you yourself personally develop. So if you work on you, every single thing falls into place. The truth is, is even on this podcast we're doing, everything we've said can be found on YouTube for free. Everything that we're talking about any kind of program or system can be found. That's not That's not what this is about, it's about being able to do, and you can't do if you don't trust yourself, if you don't have confidence, if you're not disciplined, if you're not willing to put in the work if you're not motivated. And all of those things is only one thing. It's personal development. So again, you can have a dream, and you can get the vision and then you can throw it to the wayside because you're not willing to execute. And you already know what you need to execute on. So you go back all the way to the beginning. And this is what I've realized in limitless society is, let's work on us, because we're calling us and the more that we work on us the greater and more success we find in our business and our relationships as a father, as a mother, as a parent, as a spouse. And then everything succeeds. The first question that I'd asked, and I know this is a little bit of a tangent, but the first question I asked when I mentor people in their business, literally because we get on a phone call, and they're think I'm just gonna blast them with information. I say to them, how was your marriage? That's the first question I asked when I met start mentoring business owners, how's your marriage? And then, you know, it's, I almost always get the same answer, oh, it's a six or a seven, and I go awesome. Your business will always be a six or a seven. And they can they're like, they look at me, like I'm an idiot. I say your business will never be more successful than your marriages just won't. So we got to start there. Now, if you tell me your nine in your marriage, then we'll move on, and we'll go to something else. But that's the way that it works. That's why personal development is so important. It's why that whole quote of if you work as hard on yourself, as you have on your business, you will create a fortune, not just some financial stability, you will create a fortune. And that's I think, what this whole podcast is about.

Yeah, absolutely. And so as we wrap up, because there's been so many amazing stories and lessons in what you've talked about. So thank you so much. Do you have one thing that you want to say piece of advice, inspiration, whatever, to help an entrepreneur to get started?

Yeah, I would say the most important piece of advice that I would tell somebody who wants to start a business like an actual somebody who's like ready to do this, and I know this is going to be deep so hopefully you don't mind. You'll love it. You Don't use, you should go back to whoever you remember yourself being at your youngest age, you know, I remember is about as early as six years old, you should go back to that person. And you should ask that person, if the person you are today is who they need. And if you can answer in all honesty, yes, it's exactly who that person needs, then you're good, you're ready to rock and roll. If it's not, then you have a lot of work to do until you are ready to become the entrepreneur you need to be. Most people struggle. And this is a very common denominator. Most people struggle with competence. And the reason they struggle with confidence is because they are not the adult that their younger self needed. So when I was six years old, my dad was always sick. We always struggled with money. My love my father, he was not a leader. He wasn't he was a follower. That's why he was a nine to fiver. When I was six, like, I was always scared, I was scared about where money was gonna be, I was scared about where to turn when chaos hit, I was scared, I was just there, I was always scared. I needed, I needed somebody to step in and be a leader. I needed somebody who was financially strong, I needed a spiritual giant, I needed someone who would be present with me, and really, really important moments, I needed somebody who would say they were proud of me. And again, I'm not I'm not speaking ill of my father, there was just a lot of shortcomings. And the man I am today is 100%, the man that I needed when I was six years old. And that's why I crushed in any business I do. Because I'm a leader. I know how to finance. I know how to make decisions. I'm good, I'm passionate, I have empathy, sympathy, I'm hard. I'm Stern, I have boundaries, all of those things that it takes to be a great leader and business owner. And so now I can do those things. It's so crazy how trauma and issues of us growing up is the same reason why we're not successful in our business. And even people listening to this, who aren't really willing to go deep aren't gonna make the connection. They're gonna say, one, I'm not selling what I need to be selling. That's why my business sucks. And the truth is, if I dive in with you for five minutes, I'm gonna realize it's because you're not a good leader. And because you can't set boundaries, and because you haven't been honest. And that's who you're six, or seven, or eight, or whoever you remember, that's who they need. And you're not being that. And so for me, when you ask that simple question, like, what is the one piece of advice, go back to the youngest version you can remember, and have a conversation with that person. And then you come back in real truth, and tell me are you who they needed then. And if you are, you're ready to you're ready to kick the shit out of business. And if you're not, then identify what you are not, and work on it like a savage until you become that. And then when you start a business, you're gonna laugh about how easy it is. It is so easy. Just that, huh?

Well, that's exciting, exciting. There's obviously a lot of work to do to get to that point and awareness and acknowledgement. And I hope that people feel empowered to explore that from having listened to this conversation. And thank you so much for sharing everything that you have today. Please, go and check out Keaton at the limitless society. I will put all of the links, how to find him on all the places in the show notes, and I just really appreciate you being here today.

Absolutely. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

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